[FS: Jagware Collection 1.0 - Atari Jaguar CD - $50]

I'd pay 600 for brain dead 13 but only because it's the last one I need. I do have primal rage though.. Wish I had seen this post before. 

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

One left to go, might be awhile but here we are

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Bump with higher prices and a finders fee incentive. 

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Figured I'd go another bump up just in case

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Now just down to Jaguar! Finally moved the needle again!

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Bump up, down to just Atari now

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Bump, still looking for these, so just in case

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

I think one more purchase and I'll be able to fit all the game titles unabbreviated in the title 😅

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Thanks to Boog for the Asphalt 2 Urban GT. It's pretty hard to find the normal ESRB copy, I had the Press Kit copy for a long time to hold the place, but I prefer having the normal ESRB one for sure.

 

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Edited to make all the items in the thread title though I had to abridge it some, if I knock off one or two more, I'll be able to fit them all with good descriptions 😅

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Raised a few prices a tad more, hoping to hit the single digits this month, but I know that'll be tough

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Raised a few prices, added a couple things and otherwise just house kept the list, thanks again!

[Why do so many people enjoy "boss battles"?]

As usual it depends on how it's handled. Boss battles can be amazing for helping expand your understanding of mechanics with a worthy rival. Other times they can stall a game and be pointless damage sponges. Ninja Gaiden or Souls games have good boss fights, as for older games like Mega Man, but not all do.

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Upped a few bounties based on recent information and added a couple 3DS titles, so hey! Also, here is my Jaguar haul of recent all compiled!

 

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Did another update, mostly added some Jaguar stuff, thanks all!

[Does anyone know if World Tour Racing on the Jaguar CD had an original cardboard box release?]

21 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

Yes cardboard box version exists. I believe telegames had it in cardboard box for awhile.

Do you happen to know of any images exist? I like to paste them into my spreadsheet just so i don't forget, since they can take awhile to find. In this instance I'm not quite sure how hard it is to find since I just began, but the list is down to 3 and I suspect all 3 will be a bit on the higher end.. But I found evidence of them at least, lol.

[Does anyone know if World Tour Racing on the Jaguar CD had an original cardboard box release?]

I only just recently began to buy into this system, I had decided not to go for it years ago but have since figured I should just do it since I own all Atari hardware otherwise.. The lineup is small and so far I have been able to find a normal box release for everything, but the only box I can find on record in the immediate sense for this game, is the reprint from Songbird with a plastic shell case. I recently ran into a cardboard version for Iron Soldier 2, so I assume one must exist for this but I can't find any images of peoples full sets here.. Any help?

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

Bump up, I added and removed a bunch, this is a pretty refined list at this point so if you have even one thing please feel free

[Commodore 64 confusion, does a US release database exist?]

29 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Right, but that's still comparing sales of a home computer to sales of consoles.  The markets they were aimed at were different, and the people buying them had different reasons for choosing one over the other.

 

Also bear in mind that the NES and SMS both post-dated the C64, with neither one considered to have been direct competition at the time.

Perhaps, but all that really suggests is how well a particular system may have done in a given territory.  It's not going to give an accurate picture of the machine's overall lifespan.

Right, but at the time Brazil had an economy that was extremely protectionist when it came to importing goods.  That coupled with lax copyright laws spawned market conditions that were unique to Brazil, such as comparatively-high percentages of cloned / bootlegged hardware being sold openly.  In most ways, it's enough of a corner case that it's not indicative of what was going on elsewhere.  About the best conclusion that could be drawn was that it was popular in Brazil, but extrapolating that particular success out to other regions is not going to give an accurate picture of what led to tat success (or failure).

 

I will say, however, that I'm also confused as to how you're unable to come across the information you're looking for regarding the C64, and I'm saying that as an Atari guy.  As @OLD CS1 mentioned, it was one of the best-selling home computers of the era with documentation to match.  The question you're looking for an answer to isn't really clear to me, but perhaps reframing the question might help.

Essentially the information I would like to find is what retail releases the platform had that were specific to the US, so as example, I believe Outrun and Outrun Europa are both releases for the C64, and they released on many platforms in the US. However, checking eBay isn't a reliable method because it might still not have been released in the US even if sold by a US seller, and if you can't find a specific reference for its release or, a specific box art, or something, it becomes pretty difficult to peg. So far from what I've seen the information on the US specific aspect is pretty difficult to hone in on, but pretty vast if spoken of broadly, but that could just be looking in the wrong places as well. The one website posted earlier does not seem to list Outrun Europa as a release that occurred in the US, and if so, that's all I'd really need to know, I just lack confidence in taking it so definitively when the information is hard to corroborate. 

 

Sega fans have a site or two that will list the data about one game and then list what regions it released in, and even accompany it with what the box arts and differences were in each, which is handy for sure and makes it seem mostly definitive that you're getting the right info. 

[Commodore 64 confusion, does a US release database exist?]

8 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

I do not understand this proposition.  This is one of the most documented systems I know of.  What, exactly, are you missing?  If you are talking about the list of US software releases, that might be a shame for collectors but still irrelevant to calculation of a system's success.

That is completely irrelevant.  I was born in the 70s.  I was never exposed to most of the machines which started the Homebrew era or Home Computer Revolution in that decade.  That does not make them any less significant, documentation or otherwise.

...you can just push on through to try to make the ends connect.

 

Perhaps I lack collector sensibilities, but I cannot see how the rest of your post does not swing back around to my position.

 

 

Usually you can measure a platforms outcome quite a bit by how much is documented regionally. As example, the SMS has a huge showing in Brazil, and much of the software breakdown and exclusives, etc for the region are very well documented and segregated for easier digestion, it makes it so people can understand what the market is (or was) like for that platform for that region. Now, if you step into a platform like say, the Neo Geo console, it's also pretty difficult to get definitive information on what games were released for it in the US specifically because the obscurity drove people to kind of import, mail order, etc, and because it had low sales penetration pretty much everywhere, the documentation for it is quite a bit more limited, mostly driven by a small handful of passionate enthusiast. The C64 likely has an extremely large homebrew/information breakdown if referring to many European territories, but the US specific breakdown seems extremely limited, which implies it did not have quite the presence here as it might have elsewhere.

 

Keep in mind, it would seem only a relatively small fraction of that 12 million units actually occurred in the US, so I'm not really sure why it's such a point of contention to say that in the US, the platform was not exactly prolific in contrast, as if it were, I'd be swimming in information and not resorting to ask people for a single resource that helps breakdown the platforms US specific existence, I don't live in Brazil but can easily source such information for the SMS there, which is why it's not something I've crossed often. I would bet if I lived in say, Japan, it would be more difficult to find region specific information on the original Xbox as well, despite the fact that platform was an overall success. It isn't meant to be diminishing, just something of a complexity for a collector to try and delve into. If I'm mistaken and there is in fact a large batch of US information based websites filled with history, information and retail releases, box arts, all that, then by all means I would love to see it. The site posted earlier helped a lot in terms of getting a list, but many of the games on my own list are not present there, and I'm not sure if that means the site missed them, or if those games indeed only released outside of the US region. Attempting to cross reference that information has led to a total failure so far.

 

I have only begun trying to dig into this platform the last couple weeks however, so by no means am I trying to pretend I am the resident expert on the matter, but we all start somewhere and I have never struggled quite as much to find information on basically anything until now.

[Commodore 64 confusion, does a US release database exist?]

21 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

Making conclusions on a past market based upon a current environment is a bad habit to be in.  The market of today was only dreamed of in the 80s.  Though trite, "that was then, this is now," comes to mind.

Well you can compare it to the other platforms of the time as well, like the 2600, or the NES.. Or the Sega Master system, etc, all of which sold as much or more, even at the time it wasn't big as a gaming platform in the US especially, but it was big for a home computer of the time. Computers now being standardized a bit kind of confuses the concept as obviously computers broadly sell way more, but also with far more options with all criss crossing the same software.

 

There really is no direct comparison, but the comparison is drawn because as a collector, I note it seems near impossible to find information on it, and that is due to sales volume, even if a large success in its specific category at the time. I can't really add much more to the discussion there really, but I would say most people born in the 80s in the US likely never ran into, or heard of the platform, because the sales data vs the amount of people in the country would back that up relative to other electronic devices of the time. That doesn't make it any less important for its role in home computers however. If we compare it to the Sega Master System in the US which sold likely similarly, many people in the 80s and especially 90s would never even know it existed, as many still think the Genesis was the first Sega system in the US.

 

I compare it somewhat to the concept of say, the Steam Deck, which many people ridiculously thought would take a swing at Nintendo's market share of all things, and it barely did anything relative to that, but for what it is, is a huge success within the portable PC market. It all depends on the angle I say, and this one is definitely different, and doesn't fit quite neatly in any single bin, so it is a bit complex to try and compare, but it is frustrating to research more than any platform I have ever tried to that's for sure.

[Want to Buy: Nothing, all done!]

I'll let this fall now, thanks all, really appreciate the help over the years

[Commodore 64 confusion, does a US release database exist?]

6 minutes ago, zzip said:

Keep in mind things didn't sell as much back then.   These days when Playstation consoles can top 100 million, a 10 million selling console will be seen as a failure.

 

The C64 was easily the most popular 8-bit computer in the US, and I don't think it was close.    But also sales of 8-bit computers took off as the game market was crashing, these computers never sold as many units as the consoles before them.   So a few million C64s would be successful for what was a new market, but will look miniscule by today's standards.

Oh of course, just it means in terms of collecting and information, it's very hard to come by, though there may be other variables I don't quite understand since it's easier to find information on say, the Atari 5200 which didn't exactly perform great, but there is a lot of info out there. Even at the time though the NES eventually sold I think 60-70 million units in contrast, which was a staggering success for the time.

[Commodore 64 confusion, does a US release database exist?]

9 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

Estimated 12.5m, the last 4.5m in Europe after 1989.  Until around the end of 1990 I could walk into almost any retailer and pick up a C64 title, and some places were still selling new units and disk drives.  Almost every family I knew had one, even if they were moving to PC (often the kids, my age, inherited and used the 64 while their dad got the new PC.)  In my experience, the C64 did very well in the USA.  It did, however, seem to die a quick death here after 1991 as '486s of the time were very affordable and Win 3.1 started taking root in the home.

 

Well keep in mind, that systems like the Wii U, or Vita, which both sold more, are considered catastrophic failures that single handedly sunk the dedicated console and portable market for their respective creators, and the Dreamcast which sold about 10 million, ended with Sega leaving the hardware market entirely. As someone who is primarily versed in console collecting, that's the metric I use when I consider if something took off here. When browsing Youtube, online, or any other venue I seem to run into, it almost always seems like Europe that has the nostalgia for this platform, which is why it's a struggle to find any info on the US specific side of things. The line absolutely seems like it mattered elsewhere in a big way, it just seems near impossible to find much on the US side which is frustrating, though that one website helped quite a bit.

 

None of that is meant to discredit the platform though, if I didn't like it I'd not be delving deeper into it, It's a pretty incredible device for the time based on what I'm finding, I just wasn't in my cognitive years during its relevance that's for sure.

[Commodore 64 confusion, does a US release database exist?]

1 hour ago, The Usotsuki said:

The C64 absolutely took off.  It was the Amiga that bombed here.

Well, I just read this page and it puts the figure around 13 million WW, which is not a lot in the modern sense, a definitely a vast amount of them not in the US. 

 

https://www.pagetable.com/?p=547

 

This isn't meant to be a slant, I just did an ebay search for US software and it yielded no results on half of what I input for US releases, and a few for others, so I don't think my initial assessment of 'didn't really take off' is wrong if referring to it by console metrics, if considering it as a single PC metric, that's a great figure, but also kind of irrelevant in the modern sense since you can't exactly bring its software forward, so it's effectively limited as a console in terms of modern day purchasing, but I'm still learning about the system so pardon any misinformation.