bojay1997
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Posts posted by bojay1997
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Something doesn't seem right. I don't think we're getting the full story here.
For someone who loves to call out Mike's PR blunders, why would Carl make such a post brazenly attacking Mike while he's supposedly trying to get something out of him behind the scenes? It doesn't make sense. And why would you announce a "hostile takeover"?? That defeats the whole point of catching the powers-that-be off guard. If it's announced then they know your intentions going in and can thwart it.
If Carl is sincere in trying to get RETRO, then this goes back to my point that the deal will never go through because of the bad blood between them. Carl wants to project the image of having his foot on Mike Kennedy's throat but even at his lowest point Mike is never going to stand for that. We know he's a prideful guy and he sees Carl as the enemy. He could just as easily not sell the magazine at all just for the sake of denying Carl the use of it after Carl gloated here as if the sale is a sure thing. Then Mike just squats on the name till the right buyer comes along in a few years.
Mike's problem with RETRO subscribers is very minor. Kickstarter doesn't care, they'd probably even take his side since he delivered two thirds of what was promised, so from their end he was operating in good faith. He could probably settle it all the way other magazines do when the go out of business- just give the subscribers a free subscription to another random tech mag like Wired and call it a day. Like Bill said, they give away subscriptions to those. I remember getting a 3 year deal to Wired for like $3.99 a few years ago.
So why degrade someone's business practices and announce a "hostile takeover" on a public forum? Well, it's only a PR blunder if you're actually trying to make that sale go through but it can be PR gold if you're just trying to call attention to your own brand. And don't forget- April 1st is only two weeks away...
Yep, not sure how you can engage in a "hostile takeover" of a company that isn't even publicly traded.
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He had "Retro Gaming Magazine" prior to Kennedy's RETRO. I don't think that speaks of "obsession."
I'm fully aware of that. It doesn't change the fact that even before the whole Chameleon thing, he was oddly obsessed with Retro and seemed very fixated on the idea that Retro had somehow infringed on his name when in fact Retro Gamer had been around for longer than both of them and there have been other non-game related magazines and other trademarks in printed media for Retro for many years now.
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Perhaps instead of going thousands of dollars (or much more) in debt and having to still honor two or three more issues just spend more money on content or advertising a new magazine?
Agreed. While I think Triverse did some good investigative journalism on the whole Chameleon fiasco, I think he also suffers from some of the same odd obsessive and pipedreamer qualities that Mike Kennedy expressed. Triverse seems to be obsessed with the name "Retro" for a magazine which frankly doesn't seem like a very valuable asset given everything that has happened here and the fact that there is already a great magazine out there called "Retro Gamer". Also, running a magazine with retail distribution requires a massive investment in writers and other staff. While Mike may have been able to string people along for a year and a half on a promise of sharing in the profits, you can bet that qualified journalists and writers are not going to make that mistake again. The whole premise of Retro was that some of the great team members from leading magazines of the 90s were going to be the staff behind it. I doubt backers are going to want additional issues of something by an entirely new team that is essentially a glorified fanzine. I think it's best to just let Retro die and if Triverse wants to create a new magazine, there will at least be one fewer competitor out there in an already dead marketplace.
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Can't believe
WTF???????
Not only did someone win this at over $2200, but another apparently long term Ebay member offered almost as much. I know it's tax refund season, but this is a new height of insanity.
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When the site made the name change from CTCW to GG was when everything went to hell and MK thought he was gonna take on Ebay and Amazon. Even the lifetime free memebers had to add credit card information to their accounts? Why would he need my credit card info if I'm never giving him any money? That seemed pretty shady to me. It was that and MK's egotistical approach of GG not just being an alternative to ebay\amazon but it was going to take them head on that led to me personally no longer using CTCW\GG. It was clear to me back then that the man had more than a few screws loose in key locations of his noggin. That and he was entering sellers accounts and messing about without their knowledge. I can say that for a fact as he did so to my GG account and I caught him red handed doing it. He said sorry but the damage was done. I have no clue how many others he did the same to as I can only attest to my own account mistreating.
I always thought it was shady when Mike would magically win auctions for the few rare items that he convinced people to put up on Gamegavel. I suspect he was able to see exactly what other people bid so he could win every time. There was also the fact that at the height of his promotion of Gamegavel as an Ebay alternative, he listed some of his own rare items on Ebay and refused to explain why he didn't use Gamegavel and yet wanted other people to continue to list their rare items there.
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Looks like "Coleco" pulled the plug.
http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/08/coleco-pulls-support-from-chameleon/
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Does anybody know for sure what the Kickstarter approval process actually is?
Can Mike show (heavily edited) videos from the Toy Fair plus give them some links to the regurgitated press releases on sites like Engadget, Gizmodo, and Tom's Guide and get Kickstarter to say "approved"?
Does Kickstarter do any actual independent research? I'd hope someone at Kickstarter would at least type "Coleco Chameleon prototype" into Google, find this thread or the CUPodcast on Youtube and go "Holy Sh*t! Abort! Abort! Abort!".
My understanding is that the Kickstarter approval process is now automated (i.e. nobody reviews the submission or launch as long as their automated system doesn't reject something in the pitch). Having said that, if people complain or they catch wind of something problematic as a result of press coverage, they can and do suspend or cancel campaigns.
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A news site has some pics from the booth. Pretty funny that they have like 5 pics in a row of the console behind the case. Gotta love the build quality on the controller's left analog stick, I wonder if it's transmittable.
And we have a new team member to welcome!
Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned, Chris Cardillo was there. I still don't know who the guy on the right is.
So is the Toy Show set up similarly to how E3 used to be where they had that really low end hall under the main halls where the odd thirty party vendors used to set up? You know, the ones with mind control accessories or really obscure Eastern European games that likely will never see a US release? This booth appears to be in a corner in a very sketchy looking group of no-name vendors.
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Even though I don't think it has much chance of success, I don't know for a fact it won't and would like to see it succeed. My guess is that it will fail from insufficient backers without any interference from us.
I'm not following. Even after all of the evidence that much of what Mike has presented in the previous iteration and at the Toy Fair is likely misleading at best and fraudulent at worst, you still want it to succeed? While I also don't understand the fixation some people have on the project, as a frequent backer of crowdfunded video game projects, I feel very strongly that anything with this many red flags deserves hard scrutiny if only to preserve the integrity of crowdfunding.
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I put a $10,000 buy it now to create a buzz and a reaction just like yours. I do have the best offer option and will entertain reasonable offers.
I've never understood this approach. Outrageous start pricing has the exact opposite impact on me. I just assume anyone that is so unrealistic would be insulted by a market value offer and ignore their auctions. I'm sure many people take my same approach and you're missing out on people who actually have the money to make a good offer, but won't deal with you because of your ridiculous starting price.
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And this is why retro gaming prices are sky rocketing. It's not about passing deals on to community members anymore, it's about getting as much as possible for any given item, even if you have to wait months for a sale to happen.
Agreed. It's not even about trying to run a reasonable business anymore through hard work, but instead people scooping up Ebay or other local deals and then immediately relisting them and asking long time community members to do all of their research and pricing work while they pocket massive profits. I mean this guy admitted that he paid almost nothing for this stuff, but he wants to maximize his profits and isn't even open to non-reserve auctions as that won't guarantee him all of the money he believes he is entitled to. On the positive side, I have yet to see one of these "retro" game stores last for more than a few years as the owners are generally greedy and don't understand their own business or clientele and end up losing it all.
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The Tengen ornament is probably not real. You can etch anything now with anything you want inside. I don't see any copyright on the Atari or anywhere else in the ornament. My guess is that if this was an official release, there would be copyright or registered marks on the item.
Funny thing is that it is dated 1991. I guess people can just make these at the mall and sell them for a nice profit.
If this was an internal holiday gift item, it's unlikely they would have bothered with copyright symbols or other notices. I work for a large entertainment company and we regularly get gifts that have lots of well known corporate IP on them without such formalities. I'm not saying it couldn't be a fake, but copyright notice is not something that in and of itself would be dispositive of that fact.
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I had hoped it would get locked a lot sooner. Find something decent to talk about.
I really don't understand this mentality. Would the thread have been ok if everyone had been supportive and positive about the idea regardless of the fact that it had major flaws that likely would have resulted in backers losing the money they kicked in had it been successfully funded? I get not wanting to be seen as a place for personal attacks, but at the end of the day, Mike has made this a very personal thing by blaming everyone for the major failures in his business plan. He also chose the timing of this new announcement and it's not like people just picked the holidays to ramp up the attack. I know lots of people on other sites have been using this thread as fodder for their own discussions and frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with being seen as a place where honest and vigorous debate occurs. I agree that there have been some inappropriate posts on both sides, but frankly, there haven't been that many and they could have easily been moderated away while the thread continued.
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It was time for us to establish a new identity for this product moving forward and that was one of the main goals of the press release. We are having a variety of ongoing conversations with companies and people who are working with us in various capacities on this project and we've stopped referring to it as the RVGS. It was something that needed to be done.
You seem to lack patience or any ability to plan in advance what you are going to do and this just seems like another situation where you rushed to get something out that now you acknowledge was at best inaccurate and at worst grossly misleading. Your first attempt to create this "console" was an unmitigated disaster and yet here you are just a couple of months later announcing a new identity and that you will be showing a prototype at a national trade show attended by the very people who in theory could make or break this product in less than two months. You also seem to be making the same misleading claims about industry heavy hitters wanting to meet with you or support your product. Guess what? Toys R Us attends the Toy Fair every year and they will likely meet with just about everyone there with any kind of tangible product. Claiming that this shows industry support is just totally false.
Why not take a year or two to create a really compelling prototype, do some testing and then go out to developers and show them that prototype with an actual financial and marketing plan for how you intend to sell the hardware? Why not give the developers time to create actual unique and proprietary content rather than forcing them into your hasty and haphazard schedule? Why continue to pursue a crowdfunding approach to this when you seem to want to start an actual business? Why not raise the funding yourself, prove the concept by actually generating some sales and by answering to real investors? I think that perhaps at the end of the day, the answer to all of these questions is the same. Deep down you know this isn't viable and putting the actual time and effort into doing this right would just distract you from your ability to live in this fantasy world you've created where you can launch a viable niche hardware and software business in the modern era with little or no money, experience or relationships and have it become a massive success.
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Hey Carl,
That "COLECO is Back" title was added at the last minute by our PR firm. And I guess we can all debate what "Back" means. In a sense it is back. Even if in name only. The future of what that means remains to be seen. If this product, with the COLECO name on it, becomes a success at some level, then what will that mean? Is it "back" then? Is there a future in that brand to bring out or lend their name to other "new" products? I really don't think most are reading much more into it other than, "Hey, it would be cool to see that brand name back on a new product." The Chameleon will be the first "new" forward thinking product to adorn that brand name and none of us know where it could take the brand. It was never our intention to indicate this was anything but a licensing deal.
So, a PR firm that you hired made an unauthorized last minute addition to your press release without your approval? Forgive me, but if that really happened, it just proves that the same incompetence you showed with the first failed attempt at Retro VGS is still in full effect here.
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Looks like they're not even bothering with kick-starting this time, and going right to corporate funding...
They still have Kickstarter logos all over their Photoshops of the "Coleco" branded device. I also doubt that the company that holds the Coleco IP has the financial ability to back much of anything. My understanding is that they just license the name out in exchange for payment from various licensees. If you have facts to support your claim that this is being corporately funded in any significant way, I'd love to see it.
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Update: the FB page now shows the Coleco version of the RVGS... And the Kickstarter logo. So they're going to have to put up or shut up pretty soon this time around.
Wow, so not only is "Coleco" going to try and sell this into retail, but they still expect people to pay for the development and production through Kickstarter? I had a slight hope this morning that this meant that they weren't going to go after individuals to try and fund this monstrosity and that "Coleco" would be picking up the development and initial production run tab to fulfill any retail orders they may get at the Toy Show. I guess that was too much to hope.
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New update on the Indiegogo page!
So they'll be back by the end of the year. Interesting...
Yes, apparently they learned nothing from the last disaster of a campaign. They need to take a good amount of time off to get this thing right and to plan their campaign. Rushing a prototype and opening a new campaign during the worst time of year for crowdfunding is just absurd.
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1121596
I can't help but think that these Limited Run Games people have found a way to scratch the itch that the RVGS was trying to scratch, without the burden of launching an entirely new platform. Specifically, if the idea behind the RVGS is to give a physical media form to smaller modern indie games, then this approach does so for platforms that people already have and own. It also, by the nature of the 'limited run', suggests a certain degree of collect-ability as well.
Yep, that's the first thing I thought about when I saw the announcement about this new company yesterday. Granted their focus is on PS4 and Vita, but there's no reason somebody couldn't take this model and expand to PC or indie games (sort of like Indiebox, but without the other physical goodies). One of my biggest issues with Retro VGS all along has been the lack of any compelling reason for people to buy a unique platform just to buy games that are already available elsewhere and would likely be developed on PCs or other systems that didn't rely on custom hardware. It seems like they could just cut deals with developers to release games on physical media for PC or other current platforms and skip the whole hassle of trying to fundraise and build a machine people don't need or want.
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Yes, they did mention the ability for devs to create games for classic systems using the RVGS as a tool. However, I would ask why bother? If the goal is to have your own platform, shouldn't they only coordinate releases for that platform? Why go through the cost to build a dev box for other systems? The "niche" platform was what I was highly skeptical of from the outset, and said so. The difference from Android, et al. would be that you could sell at a markup since it was a cart with manual and box. Maybe you can make $20 off the game per unit than $5, I don't know? Though you could argue that digitally you'd sell far more at $14.99 than 49.99. I was never "sold" on the concept, so I'm not the best to explain their logic. I was willing to see it through, and intrigued by what it would have been at market.
A Cadillac with a body of a '94 Chevy Cavalier!
I thought it was more than a mention. I recall just about every post after they finished with all those posts about color options were pretty adamant that the Retro VGS could become just about any classic system through cores and that the cores were what would attract well known developers to the system to release games that had never had a deluxe physical release or had only a limited physical release like Pier Solar. Admittedly, that's when things started to get weird as some of us started to point out that recent retro style games like Shovel Knight are actually very complex and would require starting from scratch to make them run on an NES core or something similar.
In any event, I don't know that a truly unique platform would attract developers unless you had a very substantial user base right out the door. You then have the problem of not being able to attract buyers for the hardware because there is no must have or unique software. I just don't know how you get around either problem short of having a massive amount of capital up front so you can essentially pay developers to create unique launch titles and keep the pipeline stocked with games until the user base is viable enough for small developers to put resources into doing unique titles for the platform. I mean the Neo Geo AES survived for years by essentially selling a few thousand copies of each new first party game at $300+ a pop, but it also benefitted from arcade sales of the same games and licensing of ports for other platforms and a niche audience that was willing to pay a premium for games. The later releases also tended to recycle graphic and game engine assets pushing development costs lower. Ultimately the niche wasn't enough to keep new first party releases coming and it really makes me wonder what the actual size of the collector's market for new cartridge based games is in 2015.
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I really think people who WANT a cartridge based console to play newly developed games (and collect them) ought to give the 2nd coming of this project an honest chance. This was what Kennedy's goal was from the outset, and while there are some who came into this project with grudges against the man, most of us did not, quite the opposite. I think the original concept that he and Steve had is still one that should be examined. Frankly I would keep ALL planning for hardware core/emulation to the side. Yeah, that's right, table it. IMO there's a tiny tiny market for this kind of product, given that you can emulate these systems on just about every device sold over the last 5 years! Stick to the cart system to play new games, end of story. If it can't swim on that alone, then give up.
Wasn't the whole point of the FPGA and cores to serve as not just a means to play already released games, but more importantly, a way to give developers and publishers an easy road to releasing stuff that was either already completed or in development for other platforms on the Retro VGS on physical media? I don't recall Mike or Steve ever talking about a truly original platform that would play cartridge based retro games. My recollection is that this came later in their Facebook posts when people started posting wish lists for some kind of new 8 bit or 16 bit platform and then they talked about creating a new core that had unique characteristics that were different from the other classic cores. Don't you lose almost all of the developers if they have to create something for a unique platform that has a tiny niche audience?
Isn't what you're talking about just an Ouya, FireTV, Nvidia Shield, Razer Android TV or something similar that uses cartridges instead of either digital media or SD Cards?
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At the end of the day, they want us to buy a new console to play games our old consoles are perfectly capable of and we already own them. If it's 50 bucks for a true 16-bit game on the VGS, why not just buy a SNES homebrew of it and be done with it? It's like they want to control the retro homebrew scene with their own console. It just makes no sense for anyone but them since they are the ones to profit.
Strongly agree with this point. I've never understood the need to force people to buy a whole new platform to play games when many collectors and retro gamers already own the original hardware or systems capable of playing the original software.
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Retro gamers are a frugal bunch, but I find it pretty comical that they would belittle this product yet support Kevtris who is proposing a device that only plays old games, and probably won't be sold for much less than RVGS should it include 16/32 bit system support everyone is begging for. I think that if you're more interested in what old hardware RVGS can run, then you are not the target audience. The target audience are gamers who like to collect physical copies, a practice quickly to be extinct, and completely extinct for most "indie" style games. Woitka made a good point, selling download-only indie games on modern systems is not easy, and true monetary success is very, very rare. At least with RVGS, the developer stands to make a decent profit IF (big IF) the console sells and has a healthy install base.
I actually take strong issue with your stereotyping and generalizations about retro gamers. There may be some very vocal posters here and elsewhere that are frugal, but plenty of us who are retro gamers give generously to Kickstarter projects and buy homebrews and other small run items that are fairly expensive all in the interest of supporting something we believe to be worthwhile. Similarly, I am far more likely to support someone like Kevtris who has actually put in a lot of hard work on a project and who has given back to the community over the years versus a team of folks who I have had very little interaction with and who seem to have poor business and decision making skills.
As I pointed out to Mike on Facebook in the run up to this project, there are other groups and entities supporting physical releases, including small publishers and companies like IndieBox, Gamers Edition and others. Creating a whole new platform to support physical releases was both unnecessary and ignorant of the marketplace. It would have been a much better use of the time and resources to create a company that helped small developers publish games on physical media with high quality packaging and media.
I don't know Mike personally, but I do know his previous work and I have been largely disappointed with all of it. From his attempt to compete with Ebay that offers no benefit to buyers and frankly less protection (indeed, he allowed a fraudulent seller that was banned from Ebay to sell on Gamegavel even after being made aware of the previous fraud and banning, explaining that the guy hadn't done anything similar on Gamegavel yet and so he was going to give him a chance) to a magazine that seems to lack editorial direction or even basic proofreading and doesn't even have much "retro" content, I have found his work amateurish at best. I know it's popular to bash on "haters" nowadays, but sometimes I think it's ok to say to someone that has too many bad ideas and schemes, "hey, maybe business isn't for you and maybe you should stop wasting your time and money and that of your family and friends on ideas that have no future". I personally believe there are such things as bad ideas and bad products and all of the good intentions in the world won't bring back money or time that has been wasted.
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For sure. As the owner of a retail store that's a Nintendo dealer, I speak from experience. There's no retailer on earth that would carry a software-less system. The margin is nonexistent on the hardware. Retailers "make" around $5 a unit for hardware. $5 on $300 doesn't really cover the cost of credit card processing to complete the sale, let alone normal business overhead. Hardware manufacturers have been feeding us this terrible margin for years, selling us on the ability to makeup margins on software. Which makes sense, until you take away software. So, no software, no retailers. No retailers, then Nintendo would be stuck selling hardware to the consumers directly - something they are not even remotely prepared or interested in doing.
Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft couldn't care less about small retailers like yourself. If you sell used games, even less so. Retailers like Amazon, Best Buy, Target and others are more than happy to sell digital consoles and the points or credit cards for them. While I think NX will have physical media, large retailers where most of the sales happen aren't going to be a deterrent or problem should some manufacturer decide to move to a digital only console. Heck, Gamestop and Target both sold Ouya and the PSP Go.
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Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?
in Modern Console Discussion
Posted
I agree that Mike never really delivered on the promises that drove the Kickstarter campaign in connection with Retro. Having said that, to have someone else come in and essentially take their existing fanzine that had poor readership and failed and then simply adopt the "Retro" brand and expect that to be acceptable to backers or subscribers is absurd. I don't know what kind of financial assets Triverse has, but this is a business that would required hundreds of thousands of dollars to re-launch and even then, the chances of success are very low. The magazine business is dying for a reason and Mike's "mismanagement" aside, I seriously doubt that any small time entrepreneur can launch and maintain a magazine with retail distribution in this day and age without the support of a large publisher and very deep pockets.