up2knowgood
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Posts posted by up2knowgood
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Every time I see someone talking about this, which really does suck,
32102-star-fox-atari-2600-media.jpgI think about this, which is great.
82455aa7ce2e8ab190f2d28d1b555d9f--v-games-star-fox.jpgThen I remind myself, no no, it's the Atari VCS game, which makes me think of this, which is not the same thing at all.
And it had this wonderful advertisement.
Similarly, imagine my disappointment when this crap is under discussion, or on a "coming soon" game list!
When I'm expecting this.
Gaming World Problems.
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Windows PC (with Steam, Blizzard, Windows store, Origin, Ubi, Facebook, etc)
Macintosh PC (w/many of the above)
Linux PC (many variants)
Microsoft Xbox One/Xbox 360
Sony Playstation 4
Nintendo Switch
Nintendo 3DS
iOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, AppleTV)
Android (phones, tablets, GoogleTV)
Kindle Fire (and TV)
Mobile gaming generates half the money in the games industry today, across many different platforms. Further market consolidation is likely, but a crash seems unthinkable, and none of these big players are likely to drop out anytime soon.
As @Flojomojo points out below, there are more gaming platforms today. At the time of the crash, the computer game market wasn't yet much of a market. I mean that was around the time Lord British was selling games in Ziploc baggies!
With regard to oversaturation. The 2600 had somewhere between 500-600 games total, and half of those came out after 1982 when the crash is said to have started. So we'll say the 2600 had 300 games released between 1977 and 82, with a large number hitting the shelves in 82. Is that really oversaturation? Look at how many games are on Steam. Walk into Gamestop and see how many titles they stock for PS4/XB1. In 1982 walk into a video store or record store and see how much content they had. Lots of content is good thing for your platform, lack of content is what kills it.
When a market oversaturates what typically happens is the weaker players are forced out and the stronger players survive. Revenues stay roughly even, they don't drop 97%! When Sony entered the console market, Atari exited. When Microsoft entered, Sega left. No market crash, only individual players hurt.
Then people say "oh but the discounting". But bargain bins exist in music, video, and books too, and that doesn't destroy those industries
Or people say "the games were bad". Look at the list of games released between 1982 and 85, lots of gems in there, they weren't all bad. Also the market started to crash just as Coleco started delivering arcade-quality visuals to the home, which is something just about everyone wanted.
I find all those explanations lacking. The real problem was not oversupply, but lack of demand. Demand simply dried up. It was an influx of what we now call casuals between 80 and 82-- they are enamored by the latest things, but don't have the attention span to stick with it. Same thing happened to Wii- all the rage in 2006, few cared by 2009.
That's great, but you two are both still thinking in 2017 terms, when Amazon is the biggest retailer in the World but didn't own a single brick and mortar store until here recently. Turn back time 35 years, to when it took two grown men and a dolly to move a TV, when Sears was the largest retailer in America, and come with me on a journey. (I'm trying to make this fun, bear with me.)
You mention the games on phones, games that literally take up no space what-so-ever, this is not the case here in 1982. Every game and system takes up space, RETAIL space, because remember, we aren't going directly to consumer, we are going to a store. Now this store has to find space for the Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Magnavox Odyssey 2, Coleco Colecovision, Mattel Intellivision, Emerson Radio Corporation Arcadia 2001, *inhales* Vectrex, Bally Astrocade, and the Fairchild Channel F. Oh, and by the way, all have their own library of games, and very few games are ported onto more than three of these consoles, and the systems are all really really different, oh, and I forgot to mention the clones. The Coleco Gemini, Sear Telegames Video Arcade and Video Arcade II which are all 2600 clones, Sears Telegames Super Video Arcade and Radio Shack Tandyvision for the Intellivison just to name a few, oh, and the adapters and add-ons. The 5200, Colecovision, and Intellivision all have mods to allow them to play 2600 games, which is as close to similar libraries as you're going to get. Oh, and how could I forget the computers? Did I mention that unlike in 2017 there is almost no software compatibility between computers? Well, there isn't, and I won't go into how many there are, but Commodore 64 is big one.
Now think of the games. Stock the games for all these systems and computers now. Now imagine the number of games doubling in a year, which I might add is a CONSERVATIVE estimate by how much the number game cartridges increased in 1982, and most don't sell. Now what do you do? Try to return the games to the producers for replacements or your money back, only to find out they don't have either, or are out of business. Crap, now you're stuck with them. Put them in the discount bin and hope to sell them quickly. I'd like to point out, you are now instead of making a profit, to accepting a loss on all this merchandise. How likely are you to buy more games? Not likely until you get rid of those you already have clogging up your back store room, and trust me on this, I've worked retail, it can be HORRIFYING how much stuff can be crammed back there just waiting to be stocked out front. If the retailer doesn't buy more games, the consumer can't buy new games, the backlog becomes an issue. Add in a bubble of over inflated values, years of questionable business practices, ludicrous corporate atmosphere, and truly BIZARRE work practices and we have the making of a disaster!
Back to 2017 land. iOS and Android have almost identical markets, no physical marketplace, its all digital so they can double(or even quadruple) the current number of games and the only problem would be load times for updates, and if you buy a game for your phone, you can play your tablet too, no need to re-buy it, just download it, might take a few minutes but that's the extent of your hassles. Plus thanks to ads, there are free games, which didn't exist in 1982. Same for Steam, which again, has no physical marketplace or need for a brick and mortar store and is pretty much compatible with all operating systems in use. So yeah, a few operating systems out there, but with very few exceptions, they can all play the same games, and run the same programs. The difference between Xbox One and PlayStation 4 is also minimal, almost all the games released for are ported for both, and the graphics and sound are pretty much identical, or so close the human eye and ear can't tell a difference.
A lot has changed since 1982, its a different World. You both have valid points, but I feel you're both looking at it backwards, and not forwards. You're looking back at 1982 from today, not thinking would it would be like then.
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There was definitely a crash. Videogame revenue fell from $3.2 billion in 1983 to $100 million in 1985, that's devastating if accurate. Oversaturation doesn't cause a drop like that. Gaming is far more saturated now. But that only causes the weak to fold and the strong to survive, not a 97% fall in revenue for the entire industry. Something else was at work.
Remember how 'Pokémon Go' was all the rage last summer? This year only die-hards still play it, while everyone else has moved onto 'fidget spinners' it seems. Well that was videogames in the 80s after Pacman hit. It became a craze that everybody wanted a piece of, but by 1983 people started moving onto Rubiks Cubes or Breakdancing or Cabbage Patch Kids or Trivial Pursuit-- whichever fad came next. Only the die-hards were left playing, and many of them moved to computers.
But the market crash only affected North America. Mass entertainment was far less globalized back then, and the videogame industry developed differently in different parts of the world.
Say what? There are 3 main home consoles now, and home computers. In 1982 there were at least 6, plus home computers, and several clones. Things were terribly bloated compared to now. And good Lord the number of companies making games. I read a report, and I think it was David Crane himself who commented that from 2 CES the number of 3rd party developers went from 3 to 30. Mind you, these shows were 6 months apart! Just read the trade and economic magazine of the time, it's clear there were issues, and once that house of cards started to go, it went fast!
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My biggest question is on the back of the boxes. The controller pictured is clearly not a standard CX-40 joystick, but a later 7800 style. Was that a common controller in 1984? If not, so does that mean these games were released post-crash?
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Hm, looks more like a doll to me.
Considering you're a teddy bear in that game, I think it's entirely possible that 'Mommy' is a doll.
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Cool findings. It is nice to see when a technical analysis result and speculation is confirmed that way.
Then the only question left for me is: Why does the "Mommy" look like an apple?
You mean your Mother isn't a giant apple?
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So, I recently got Worship the Woodgrain, and it seems to be in compatible with the Cuttlefish Cart, as the 4K games play fine, but the ones that require the modification of the Supercharger work for a time, then crash.
Any idea what the problem could be?
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Fire Fly...*twitch* *twitch* that just might be the worst game I've ever played. Star Fox is up there though.
I don't know if anyone else out there does this, but in various game stores they ask each other, "what's the worst Atari 2600 game you've ever played?" If they say E.T., we know they're a new Atari player, if they say any other game, then we know they're a more serious Atari player.
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Interesting. Well, mine is a Canadian model, wonder if that makes a difference.
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I don't know what counts as "reversed" because I down own a 4 Switch Atari currently, but on my Gemini, A is left, and B is right.
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Not at all, I almost never see red labels, but $4 per game doesn't seem bad for most Atari games.
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I read about the GameLine here recently, and I was just wondering if anyone out there has any information about it, as everything in the article was pretty generic. (That's what you get for reading Wikipedia though.) Doesn't have to be firsthand, just anything.
In addition, why not a good spirited discussion on the possibilities that it had. What if Atari liked it? Would it possibly still work today as a sort of Harmony Cart forerunner? Things like that, anyone else up for that?
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One question... why do emulators for the PC and the clone emulators have all of these filters you can apply.... tends to make things look worse to me.
No idea, I hate emulators, I have no luck with those things. Mangle the sound, screw with the graphics, glitch all to hell, and take forever to download. Full disclosure, I have no idea why they're so popular, especially since most of the games and systems they emulate aren't exactly hard to get, all they give me is headaches.
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It's just WTW and Brain, plus all AtariAge hacks so you don't have to mod the Supercharger.
Just on CD for convenience, and hopefully with fewer...glitches than WTW.
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Sound you should release a WtW2 cd.
I'd like to preorder that now if I could.
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Atlantis. Both Day and Night are cool scenes.
Really curious to know why they decided to make two different artworks though. 
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And when you get it running, post link to said stream here so all of us can enjoy it.
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Plastic bins work great for me. Walmart has these Snapware containers that stack and have handle that are very nice. Hard part is always the M Networks and Imagic cartridges because of their odd shapes.
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Only thing is, if this happens, then no one is going to make anymore supercharger games. I would love to get new games on cassette. I'm (very slowly) working on my own Batari game (it's not going to at the standard of Spiceware - but it will be mine by me), and want to run it on a real supercharger. And if it is good enough that people want copies, then that can happen too. I've got a Harmony cart, so i can understand why people prefer to use that. It's just that I love using the technology as it was meant to used (as much as you can).
I'd say there are a few out there who don't own Harmony Carts who would like to get their hands on some new Supercharger games. Granted, maybe not that many, but I think it would be cool to see some new Supercharger games on real tapes. I'm one of the few who never heard of the Harmony Cart before this topic apparently, and as such don't own one.
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I bought the Arcadia version right after it was released and they weren't expensive at $45.00. I bought mine at Camelot Music in our mall...they were the place to get the latest greatest games and the rare titles from manufacturers you never heard of. When I fired up Phaser Patrol for the first time, I knew I added some serious power to my 2600.
Few months later Toys R Us was selling them and all the games...anyone who thinks these things are super rare must not have been around in the early 80s. I bought all the available games at the time except for Fireball and Party Mix.
I'd like to remind you that $45 was kind of expensive for a game at that time, a new game cartridge usually cost $35 at time of release, then dropping in price from there. The real savings came in that following games were cheaper, around $20 each because of the cost of tapes vs. cartridge manufacturing.
And I've talk to others who say in the 80s they didn't even know of the Supercharger, and that it was only in Toys 'R' Us for a short time. Remember, the company was founded in 82, started to shut down operations in 83, and folded in 84. Very short life span for a company really. On my topic "Sales Numbers," it was generally agreed that fewer than a million Supercharger units were made and sold.
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Sounds like it might be River Raid II to me, but not 100%.
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Love the idea. Very unique and original! Am I to take it TOM is the one from Toonami?
I would like to suggest one of my personal favorites, Cosmic Ark.
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And we here at atariage MUST have an interest in the history of gaming, or what in the hell are ya doing following these forums???
Well, you got me there.
Yet for me it didn't start as an interest in the history, but in the games. My Mom got my Dad a "Flashback," but I played it more than he did. Simple, maybe even primitive, yet still oddly entertaining, sometimes more so than the Wii games that were all the rage at the time, it was amazing. However, the buttons on the thing shorted out after a while, so when I saw a system and some games for sale in an antique store, I bought it. Over time I wanted to know more about the games I enjoyed, and that is when I became interested in the history too, and well, here I am.
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As promised, I took pictures, here's one. The rest are in my Supercharger gallery.
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No more E.T bashing, there are games that are really garbage, ET is not one
in Atari 2600
Posted
Eh, not really. I know a lot of people who only do emulators, and are completely baffled that I don't use them at all.
Problem for me is, I'm not a very tech savvy guy, I struggle with emulators. I prefer plug and play. And sometimes, plug, unplug, blow on the contacts, plug and play.