Meddler
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Posts posted by Meddler
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...more Joystick Port interfacing...
the Joystick Port is a viable output and input port as explained in my post:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/262077-joystick-port-interfacing-ti-basic-console-only/
but frustrated by having only one axis of control I have come up with the following idea, a little more complicated but straight-forward:
there are binary counters and de-coders available and in the spirit and era of the TI99 that would be power hungry TTL, the 7493 binary counter and the 7415X series 16 to 1 line decoder. Connecting the counter output to the de-coder input gives 15 selectable outputs.
One Joystick output can clock the counter and the other would gate the De-coder. By sending a series of clock pulses the counter would increment and the de-coder would output a 'low' on the relevant line when 'gated'. If only a sequential output is required then the 'gate' is not required.
Several other options can be derived from this idea but if specific outputs are to be addressed at random then the 'gate' is required so position 0 would have to be the resting position and the count must always run to 16 after each selection as there is no other output to reset the counter. At power-up, position 0 can be tested by a Joystick Port input.
... I noticed that those cheap RC Model Cars from China have 4 buttons for Left-Right, Forward-Reverse.....
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Another TI user made a GREAT comment about not cluttering up another persons thread with off-topic chit-chat about an OS for the TI. With that in mind, I thought why not start a new thread and see where it leads us.
With the FinalGROM 99 on the horizon, now has never been a better time to start exploring options. With one megabyte of memory, and GROM capability, nearly anything seems possible.
One thing is certain, as something like this grows and evolves, anyone will be able to download and install any new version within seconds. Since there is no doubt how popular this cartridge will be, I'm pretty confident the potential user base will be quite respectable.
Since an OS suggests 'disk access', we know the target audience will already have either a P-Box, Nano-PEB or some other variant to save data, but what about video requirements? A large percentage of this demographic also runs F18A's, so would it not be wise to consider that a standard item as well?
Well, fair enough for those with "systems" but the only thing "standard" would be the Console and a selection of cartridges for most people.
I would be delighted to put my TI99/4A to more use but balk at, if you will forgive me, putting good money after bad on this sad unit spoiled at conception.
The work here is both inspiring and impressive so I have no criticism of those utilizing this fine tool but I believe that until there is an affordable option that gives all the things that are missing from a basic computer then it will remain a fringe hobby for those with deep pockets.
My basic wish list that would get me to spend money would be some simple interface that provides some RAM and Printer output, I2C or some other modern interface would be nice. I loose track, FinalGrom and F18A might resolve all these things.
I mention I2C as the Arduina/raspberry crowd are being feted with hundreds of cheap add-ons that we are missing out on.
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Hi, butting in to say that I have received this nasty little thing, "cheap-as-chips" from China.
s-b275x275.PNGAbsolutely no information....MP3, Bluetooth, USB,FM Radio etc.The idea being that it replaces the Cassette Player. It might do more as it is a USB host.
Hopefully, it will be straight forward but if anyone recognizes the chip: AC1652DAK115-0 marked JL then that would help.
Well that did not work out so well....
but could this be the answer? Record to SD card and scrolling display; edit on P.C if necessary
* It saves all data in SD card
* High quality recording, listen recording files clearly
* Support recorded files and MP3 songs playback
* Manage in real time
* Quickly and Easily searching conversation call with pressing button
* Manual controls: Pause, Continue play
* 1GB Memory size can record 35 hours
* Start Recording time sensitivity
* Each call has data and time in detail to assist searching
* Allows to change recording volume
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Well it uses the PIC24FJ256GA110 family chip by Microchip, and looks programmable, so I thought I could use it with the TI99 aand Geneve and maybe experiment with the programmability.
In section 1.2 Features, It states that it supports FAT12, FAT16, FAT32 management system
You are a star! That was quick delivery!?
I have been reading the support docs. while you posted this and whilst it does what it says, it is a bit verbose in it's responses.
I do not know what the sample software is for and assume that any attempt to read the PIC will clear protected memory; maybe the company will explain?
If you are going to have a go then I might be able to assist but for my purposes I need it to respond like a TI99A for storing programmes.
Good luck.
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... Very tempting...
Edit: I bought it. It's free economy shipping to the US from England and under $30. Should make for some interesting experimentation.
I went ahead and bought two of these, looks like it could be good project material.
Hey guys leave one for me!
Did you find any detail or just whistling? Oh! I didn't see this before:
http://sure-electronics.net/download/DB-DP11118_Ver1.1_EN.pdf
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Hi, butting in to say that I have received this nasty little thing, "cheap-as-chips" from China.
Absolutely no information....MP3, Bluetooth, USB,FM Radio etc.The idea being that it replaces the Cassette Player. It might do more as it is a USB host.
Hopefully, it will be straight forward but if anyone recognizes the chip: AC1652DAK115-0 marked JL then that would help.
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555 PCB: Unbelievable!
£1 with no shipping charge for PCB, NE555, CD4017, 10x Red LEDS and all the other components for less than I can buy the parts and more than I need.
LED Module Assembly Of Parts
DIP = http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152320299752
SMD = http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291936911590 -
Cool device! ...
Edit: I bought it. It's free economy shipping to the US from England and under $30. Should make for some interesting experimentation.
Suckered! Thanks, I look forward to hearing your assessment; my question is going to be answered in full! I tried to find some detail but it would appear that it is no longer supported as the company has diverged it's product line. At the price, I too was tempted but I am still awaiting another gizmo from China before I decide.Good luck.
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Hi all, I found this and wondered if anyone has any experience with using it?
I do not have PEB or Drives but I do have RS232 so would this be any good as mass storage i.e programmes etc.?
"A portable, compact and high performance USB Flash Disk W/R controller with aluminum alloy housing. With RS232 port provided, you can easily do operations to USB flash disks, such as view USB flash disk’s information, write to or read files, delete folders, modify the directory, etc., by writing commands on PC via UART communication software. Set by corresponding commands, this controller can also be used as a data logger for logging data at a specified period in many applications, such as weather station recording, soil moisture level recording and so on."
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Well, obviously you have to buy sockets that match the I.Cs that you want to fit i.e 18 pin, 20 pin, 24 pin etc. and width to suit. All these details will be on the data-sheets.
From experience, you get what you pay for though "turned-pin" are superior in all cases and probably worth the extra expense for your requirements.
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OK, found the picture, and a short writeup about the mod here. I believe it is referencing a mod for analog joystick support. Oh well...
Darryl
Hi, you are referencing the Great Doctor's work that I consider the knowledgebase!
You are right - "Adapter for PC-joysticks":
"The adapter board could be powered by a small battery, but I found easier to modify the joystick port, so that the two currently unused pins (#1 and 6) now provide groud and +5 Volts respectively."
Good luck, I mean to make that diode mod. someday; it is strange that with all the quality engineering in there the diode was not fitted as standard and so avoiding the countless references to ensuring alpha lock is off!?
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Connecting two Consoles.
I was pondering on my Thread on Joystick Port Interfacing how I might transfer a couple of variables (or more) between two 99 consoles and wondered if the following would work?
By inter-connecting the Cassette Mic. and Ear sockets between two consoles and driving a Joystick key input with the Cassette Motor Drive output then it should be possible to PRINT and INPUT between units on a Keyboard 3 branch.
Has anyone tried this or would like to?
Any other ideas? Console and BASIC only!
To find out why I was thinking this then you would have to look at the other Post here:http://atariage.com/forums/topic/262077-joystick-port-interfacing-ti-basic-console-only/
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Attached is the circuit for driving an electric motor (or relays) in a 555 H-bridge configuration:
The states are:
J300p3 J300p2 (negative trigger)
High High (normal-resting)Off
Low High Direction +
High Low Direction -
Low Low (Reset)Stop Off
(A larger picture is attached below 'cause that didn't work!).
There are three parts to this of which the two 555s are the substance as S-R latches using Trigger and Reset but each 555 needs to be triggered and there are only two control lines for three functions. I have added the two transistors on the left to provide the Reset function by monitoring the 555 outputs.
The two transistors Q1, Q2 are in a Schmitt Trigger configuration which resets both 555's when both Outputs go 'High'. There are two equal resistors connected to the 555 outputs so if either of the outputs is 'High' and the other is 'Low' then then Schmitt input sees half-rail voltage which is not enough to trigger a Reset. The current un-triggered 555 is triggered to Reset and stop the circuit as both outputs will now be 'High' which is above the Schmitt trigger upper level and the 555 will be rapidly Reset; only when both outputs have gone 'Low' will the Schmitt trigger lower level be passed to release the Reset.
The 555s may be supplied by up to 15 volts so the third part of the circuit uses the transistors Q3 & Q4 to interface the 5 volt level. The 555s may supply up to 200mA to give the potential to drive 3 Watts of power (2.4 watts at 12 volts).
Finally, driving electric motors or relays can be stressing so pairs of diodes have been added to protect the outputs.
Series (opposing sense) diodes will need to be fitted in series with Relays if two (independant) Relays are to be switched.
Resistor values are not critical with the exception of the Schmitt ratios and most small signal transistors will do.-
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Addendum:
since using the Joystick port to switch a 555 I realised that the split keyboard CALL KEY(n,k,v) where n=1 or 2 polls the same CRU outputs which is handy because it means that key press can be monitored in the same routine; the CALL JOYST routine ignores the keys but instead formats the quadrant information.
I will re-check the timing to see if the pulse is longer for CALL KEY though I am pleasantly surprised to find that the action is rock solid!
I studied the Cassette Motor Drive function but it is always ON and only properly controllable after the "OPEN" routine giving it limited use. Fixed length Records give defined timing. It could be used to flash a warning light 'on error' or 'in operation' if driving a conveyor belt or some-such. -
So, it turns out that a wired weather station for Console only is completely feasible but I have digressed to other areas that can be found here
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/262077-joystick-port-interfacing-ti-basic-console-only/?p=3705865
where I give details of interfacing options.
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The basics i.e TI BASIC - proof of principle.
To look at the Joystick port interfacing options I made a little test rig as attached:( Does anyone know how to embed a photo?)
The Video output gives a 12 volts feed and the Cassette port gives the System Ground. The Purple wire is the 12 volts supply from the Video connector.
The Red LEDs are being driven by J1 & J2 and Cassette System Ground; In the centre you can see a standard 5 volt Regulator; the Green LED is connected to the output of the LM555 and, for good measure, I connected the White LED to the Cassette motor drive and 12 volts. The pushbutton on the left is 'FIRE' button for J1 & J2 using a couple of Diodes to isolate channels.
The LM555 is configured as a set/reset latch with the J1 & J2 output connected to Trigger and Reset.
The J1 & J2 outputs referenced to System Ground are 50 micro-second negative going pulses; between 4.5v down to -0.2v.
Alternately switching J1 & J2 turns ON & OFF the Green LED using a simple CALL JOYST 1 or 2. In a software loop with an ON KEY get-out test returns a 100 milli-second cycle.
The purpose of the LM555 is to provide the latching function and greater drive power.
In conclusion then, it is feasible to switch directly from the Joystick port and control that action using the Joystick inputs with only the 99 console. The limitation is that there are only two pulsed outputs.The next stage is to connect back-to back 555 I.Cs so that I can drive an electric motor in forward and reverse (or two relays). With some modification to the circuit interfacing I will use the 12 volt supply to give 3 Watts maximum power drive.
Applications? The main limitation of the Joystick port is that there are only two outputs meaning that only one axis of motion is possible with out getting complicated. However, that does mean Forward and Reverse for D.C and Stepper motors with minimal interfacing.
Indexed Turntable control or Solar tracking is possible with a more esoteric application using the capabilities of the 99 could be Resistance welding. I have a Temperature sensor connected through my RS232 so I already have Heating control as a possibility.
Any ideas you want me to think about? Slot car Start Line lights and Lap times!!?Got it. Really lots of control options here with no added peripherals except the interface board. Looking forward to some practical demos!
You should cross-post this project in TI interfacing thread http://atariage.com/forums/topic/237526-ti-994a-interfacing/page-1?hl=+ti%20+interfacing as well in the development forum.
Whilst this is interfacing, it does not justify the title "development".
This could be really cool!!! Looking forward to your progress!
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Thank you, I did have trouble up-loading the schematic. ("You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community!?")
Call Joyst is an output command. When Call Joyst(n,x,y) is issued then the line is strobed 'low' irrespective of whether a key is active; I am assuming that it is strobed for a few milli-seconds against switch bounce and that is what I have to check. Those with some electronics experience will appreciate that is sufficient to trigger most devices.
Very interesting. You left out the schematic though.
How would one use TI Basic though with this set up since the Call Joyst command only reads the fixed axis values and there is no facility to issue an output command to the joystick port?
This is the explanation of the output drive circuit so you can skip this paragraph. The schematic is attached:
The configuration of the Joystick outputs is a transistor whose job is to drive the voltage on the 1K5 resistor to +5 volts or to a logic 'low' to switch the key inputs. Normally the transistor is 'on' and holding the output at +5 volts by driving the 1K5 resistor that is connected to -5 volts. What happens when the transistor is strobed is that the Base is taken to logic 'low' and so the voltage on the 1K5 resistor is reduced to a fraction of a volt below 0 volts which will switch an input when a key is pressed. The 1K5 resistor is biased towards -5 volts whose voltage drop is controlled by the transistor and so it can be deduced that we can 'sink' upto 2.5mA into an input and maintain a logic 'low' input. Similarly we can 'source' several mA without dropping below the logic 'high' level. -
Have you ever wanted to control something with your TI99 without getting complicated?
The versatility of the common 555 timer I.C will open up your Joystick Port using only TI BASIC with CONSOLE ONLY!
Inspired by the weather station project, I started looking at the possibility of using the joystick port for sensing and control. Various configurations of the 555 timer I.C will allow voltage (temperature) measurement, Relay or LED drive and motor drive (forward & reverse) upto 200mA and 15 volts.
Come the next rainy Sunday, I will test the possibilities but meanwhile I offer the following in case you would like to try them yourself. By using 5 volt systems you are unlikely to do any damage but if you want to switch Mains Power then you better ask me first!
We have 5 inputs giving us two planes of X and Y or 5(10) linear 'stops'; with the use of a 555 timer we can measure it's pulse width for a rudimentary Analogue to Digital converter.
We have 2 outputs for controlling relays or a small electric motor using the 555 timer I.C as a latch and power output stage.
If necessary, we can 'borrow' the 0 volts from the cassette port and 'steal' +12 volts from the Video connector.
This means that we have the capability of controlling a 5 floor elevator from our TI99 using only the Joystick port and a couple of 555 timer I.Cs. Now, I don't suppose there are many of you out there that have a 4 story house in which you have just been waiting to install a private elevator but it might be a nice School project for the kids. More usefully, it is possible to measure temperature, detect limit switches and switch a relay or drive small motors using a couple of 555 timer I.Cs.
Looking at the Joystick port we can see that there are two outputs and five inputs and the principle of operation is that a key press is indicated when an input line is taken 'low' and the strobed output line (Joystick 1 or 2) determines which specific key.
The Joystick port has an intricate circuit that is mainly to do with protecting the TI99 from the outside world.
The inputs are relatively simple in that they are held at +5 volts and go to the port through a switch de-bounce filter and current limiting resistors. We can interface to the inputs with a switch, transistor, FET or opto-coupler. The use of a transistor is not advised due to the possibility of Emitter-Base reverse breakdown in this configuration and an opto-coupler is a good option if connecting to higher voltages or external sources.
I propose to use the Joystick port strobe outputs to trigger a 555 timer I.C and the Joystick inputs for limit indicators or sampling. I will use the Joystick 'low' strobe to trigger external circuits, in particular, a 555 timer I.C as it has a useful power output stage and latching function.This is the explanation of the output drive circuit so you can skip this paragraph. The schematic is attached:
The configuration of the Joystick outputs is a transistor whose job is to drive the voltage on the 1K5 resistor to +5 volts or to a logic 'low' to switch the key inputs. Normally the transistor is 'on' and holding the output at +5 volts by driving the 1K5 resistor that is connected to -5 volts. What happens when the transistor is strobed is that the Base is taken to logic 'low' and so the voltage on the 1K5 resistor is reduced to a fraction of a volt below 0 volts which will switch an input when a key is pressed. The 1K5 resistor is biased towards -5 volts whose voltage drop is controlled by the transistor and so it can be deduced that we can 'sink' upto 2.5mA into an input and maintain a logic 'low' input. Similarly we can 'source' several mA without dropping below the logic 'high' level.
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You could always use the analog inputs from the UberGROM cartridge. Plug in the cartridge containing the program and it works beautifully for console-only users. Just connect the correct header pins and write a program to read the data. . .
Thanks but I do not have an UberGROM and having one would mean that it would not be console only!
I lost interest in the Weather station idea, I can just look out the window or watch the forecasts but the idea of using the Joystick Port for control and measurement has some merit.
My video VGA converter arrived and so I will hook it up and bring out the port connections to see what can be done on the next rainy Sunday.
Meanwhile, I will start another thread to put forward what plausible ideas I have conceived.
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I was saying low cost i.e my 'bits box' not $60 more like $6 and Stuart's i2c is the way to go in Assembler but the intention is the get something that CONSOLE ONLY users can usefully play with using the KISS principle.
Not wishing to re-invent the wheel, I was looking for a timing loop that accessed the key/joystick port to count pulses: This is required to read wind-speed rotational pulses from an opto-coupler etc. The same routine could be used with a simple 555 astable with a thermistor (or other resistive device) to vary the frequency against temperature.
However, the suggestion of a an A/D converter made me think that the 555 comparator function would work with surprising accuracy and versatility.Imagine this: the timing resistor (e.g thermistor) is connected to the Joystick select such that each time the joystick is selected the timing capacitor is charged; put that in a loop count of say 1000 and monitor the 555 output on the 'fire' line; the moment that the output change is detected means that the timing capacitor is charged. This means that any change of charging resistance gives a count related to resistance (temperature).
The 555 timer also has a 'Control' input which will vary the charge time so we do have a rudimentary A/D converter.
So there are two routines required: 1) a simple loop counter checking for pulses 2) a simple loop counter with break-out on trigger. Ideally it would be nice to control something so I am thinking that, after 'OPENing' CS1 or CS2 then PRINT CSn "" will trigger the cassette motor drive opto-isolator
Diagrams attached:
If you didn't need it to be wireless, then practically any sensor you're likely to want is available with an I2C interface (such as an encased temperature and humidity sensor - https://www.adafruit.com/product/1293), and I've got an I2C interface for the joystick port here: http://www.stuartconner.me.uk/ti/ti.htm#i2c_interface). The software listing will need expanding to be able to read a byte over the I2C interface (not difficult) and to interpret/display the data received.
The humidity sensor I looked at gave a 40 bit serial data stream which would definitely require a bit of processing but as the Raspberry/AVR/Ardunio people all have libraries for this stuff then why shouldn't we?
Sorry for all the talk and no action but you guys have suckered me in and I am waiting for my Video VGA converter.
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Excited by the idea of the Wireless Weather Station project, but with no intention of spending that sort of money, I was wondering about the potential of using the Joystick port so anybody with a basic Console could do something.I was thinking about measuring pulse frequency on the "Fire" button for wind speed and temperature.
Two things came out of my pondering:
One: There are a lot of single-wire sensors available so it should not be too difficult to interface to them and ....
it turns out that back in the day, late 1980's (I had completely forgotten!), I had interfaced a Temperature Module FE33L to the TI99 through the Joystick port: A little assembly picked up the serial data and stored it as ASCII so that an EB routine could pick it up to display and print an asterix (*) on a horizontal temperature scale: the module updated at 10 second intervals to give me a real-time clock and so I was able to display/print only changes rather than continuous reading using excessive memory.
I will dig out that code if anyone is interested in adapting it.
Two: Back to the original question - I looked around the site to see if anyone had tried measuring pulse frequency on the TI and found that our ideas man had already been there:
It is a very simple matter to use opto-couplers for a wind direction vane pick-up so if I can only fiqure out a simple way to interface temperature and humidity then we have it covered for us cheap-stakes.
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Not familiar, never heard of them before today and then see what I fell over!
http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute//issue48/314_3_NEWS_PRODUCTS_Interface_For_TI-99_4A.php
COMPUTE! ISSUE 48 / MAY 1984 / PAGE 184
Mikel Laboratories
3341 W. El Segundo Blvd.
Hawthorne, CA 90250
(213) 679-2542
Historic but might give you more, happy hunting.
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Hell! With those switches you can switch all lines!Yep, but I also read elsewhere that is buggy with certain cartridges that way.
I wish I could find the source of that info or possibly someone can chime in to confirm or deny it.
I have two plans in place until I gain more clarity, the navarone way or the way Tursi suggests with 2 lines cut (neither one being the -5v).
I'm still a bit of a way from deciding. My short term goal is to build it first. Then wire it up. I'm hopeful I will have it built this weekend giving all next week to figure out the best way to wire it up.
I'm pretty sure these switches allow me to cut up to 3 lines per button if not more. Obviously less is desired but I want to do what will work with all carts, ubergroms and more.
The Great Doctor addresses the 'buggy' problem later in the upgrade article but this has nothing to do with the basic Navarone Widget.
p.s the Navarone Widget is so simplistic you might as well try it first.
http://www.ti99.com/ti/index.php?article89/cartridge-expander-navarone
again...Good Luck.
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As you can imagine the Great Doctor has covered this (though, in his way, to expand) and tells us exactly what Naverone did in the first few paragraphs:
http://www.nouspikel.com/ti99/titechpages.htm
All chips are connected and powered except -5 is switched.
Too easy!
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What can you control with the Ti-99/4a
in TI-99/4A Computers
Posted
Hi Papa Bear,
I, too, am a returner and currently putting together a "system" with-out PeB and recently played with the Joystick port for cheap interfacing: see post#11 of
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/262077-joystick-port-interfacing-ti-basic-console-only/
A (wired) weather station project would only need your B/W monitor and I did suggest that an elevator system can also be implemented with only the Joystick port!
A Parallel port would be nice though with-out a PeB I have to rely on real-world interfacing using the (dual) RS232 Sidecar that I am fortunate to have.