Wolf_

You do realize the article you linked to which shows the correct behavior shows that correct behavior on an emulator... that is included with retroarch... right? And I've proven pretty well how emulators are better than real hardware so I won't bother to repeat myself other than to say you are wrong. If people learn on one system and switch to a different system obviously that is going to screw them up regardless of which one is "better". Also you seem to think everyone that plays retro games is doing speed runs when it is an extremely niche group of a niche group. Most people are not doing things that require reactions accurate to the frame and will never even notice minor graphical glitches when presented with side by side comparison pictures. And your last comment just doesn't make any sense at all. Plenty of people play on emulators and care about those things and I could also see someone picking up a Super NT without caring that it is 100% accurate and just being excited that it is hdmi snes or that it can play their carts, like a retron5 but without burning their house down.

You're the one talking about completely different things. The posts are still there for everyone to read. Someone talked about how emulators were running at close to native input lag and you said they never would and that as a result all emulators were bad because they would always be almost imperceptibly slower. Now you're saying that fpgas offer the ideal experience (which I said and you quoted), and some completely different nonsense about how getting games to work on an emulator is too difficult for you (which was never a subject in this discussion before previously). So based on the messages easily available for everyone to check you're the one randomly replying to stuff not in the original conversation. Also spoilers: as long as you aren't distributing roms no one is going to kick down your door and search your house. But even if we pretend that happens and they find roms on your computer that you downloaded online because ripping them was too hard, as long as you have a copy of the game what are they going to do, say you illegally obtained a legal backup? At least your "games don't look better in 4k" argument is relevant but totally incorrect. I provided breathtaking video of Shenmue in 4k and Breath of the Wild in [email protected], even with shitty youtube compression if you set the video quality to 4k and watch them on a 4k60fps display you will be amazed. As for 240p 2d content while it might not get the amazing benefits 3d content has you can still do a lot with it, like avoiding the horrible snes slowdown many games suffer from that push the hardware's limits. Also there are so many types of filtering for the exact reason that different art styles will look differently when filters are applied. In the Ps1 video I provided the person uses several different filter types to demonstrate that exact situation... And Nintendo copyright strikes perfectly legal content all the time, they are one of the worst companies when it comes to interacting with people, absolutely horrible and completely out of touch. They don't even want their own youtube ambassadors to livestream even though the ambassador program has specific livestream rules. And there is such a thing as capture cards for people that want to livestream without emulation... Also once again, you clearly detest speed hacks but you never answered my question, if speed hacks don't cause any glitches in the game you are playing and optimize your performance to be at the same amount of input lag most people have trying to play retro games anyways then what is wrong with them? "Oh no I'm getting more performance but not in the same way as the original hardware and it isn't causing any problems ahhhhh" And I never mentioned anything about pis, just that emulation is in many cases far superior to original hardware.

Honestly as long as Kevtris is coding/lead developer I don't care what they cover on that list as long as they keep working at it. That said I really hope the next project is a Genesis core and that they have the Neo Geo on their radar.

Firstly, most people that still play retro consoles do so with more lag than an emulator would have. Those that aren't using a crt or an ossc + low input lag display are at best using a xrgb-mini with 1.5 frames of lag (so about the same as an emulator) and those without $400 to spend on a converter are dealing with more. (The crt crowd is a niche group of a niche group and the ossc only became easily available recently and previously it took half a year on a waiting list to get one.) And you know what? Most games are still perfectly enjoyable with a frame or two of lag and only a handful of games are actually so difficult that it would become a problem (lookin at you Battletoads) Given the fact that people lose their minds and fight grandmas to get Nintendo Classic Consoles and how many people play emulated games or buy the same games 5 times from virtual stores and how much people love it when consoles are "backwards compatible" and how many people hack consoles to put emulators on them I think it is safe to say 99.9%+ of the people that play retro games are not going to notice enough to complain if they use a well built emulator with minimal lag. And while "speed hacks" to get software running at close to native speed are a thing as long as the games function without issue what is there to hate about performance optimization? Secondly, while most people won't notice/complain about minor lag you know what they will notice? 4k graphics, enhanced anti-aliasing/filters, and increasing the fps of a game from 30 to 60 or even 120+. Is that "good enough" compared to the original hardware? Because I would say it is far superior. I've played Shenmue in 4k. I played Breath of the Wild in 4k at 60 fps. I've played ps1 with enough anti-aliasing and filters to actually see what was on the screen clearly. And I've helped a guy with one hand set up an emulator so he could remap his buttons on a system that didn't natively allow it. None of which is possible on original hardware. So I ask you: Would you rather have 15ms, milliseconds, as in 15 thousandths of second, faster response time (or less depending on your setup) and half the resolution, fps, and anti-aliasing, or do you want that the other way around? Don't get me wrong emulation isn't functional for every game or even every system but to say original hardware is best because in most cases the only difference is that it may run almost imperceptibly faster is honestly bullshit. Not to mention the cost of obtaining and modding a system as well as all the cables and hardware you need is insane compared to the cost of, at worst, maybe needing to upgrade the computer you already own for better results with your emulator. Fpgas are the best of both worlds though, offering the same native resolution increases, digital outputs, and anti-aliasing/filters at native clock speeds and that is almost entirely because of Kevtris.

I was hoping to get him to stop posting about it. We're in the "Announcement window" so I'm eager for actual news and not "I hope they intentionally didn't sell stuff so the people that didn't buy stuff can order because there is no other, I repeat, NO OTHER way to cope with selling the initial batch. I mean other than restocking or pre-orders but lets not get crazy here." For another 30 back and forth messages.

Is that not available on the ossc? I'm pretty sure the scanlines it generates are top notch (not that I've had any complaint about the nt mini ones) and it doesn't add any lag, and it costs half as much. Either way I personally would prefer slightly worse scanlines and 2 frames less of lag. Regardless if that were their goal they should still be using rgb or component and not composite out. The entire thing just doesn't add up.

If that includes both the adapter and composite cables then that eliminates options 1-5 so it looks like option 6 it is.

It isn't smart to not sell things today because people might want them later. Read a book or something, educate yourself. Have you tried swapping the cables (The analogue cables and adapter out, and the hdmi cable) or using it on a different tv?

Option 1) Kevtris, who has had his products reviewed by the pickiest of the picky is lying/doesn't know what you are doing Option 2) Your unit is defective or not configured properly Option 3) Your xrgb mini is defective or not configured properly Option 4) Your tv is defective or not configured properly Option 5) Your cables are defective or not wired properly Option 6) The guy taking a console with hdmi out and instead using the lowest quality analogue out to a hdmi upscaler + converter that costs an additional $400 and adds 2 frames of lag to get a laggy, cruddy, digitized composite signal instead of using the pure digital hdmi signal he could have just gotten out of the console doesn't know what he is doing. That's a tough one.

So far you've suggested they not sell their entire stock when they could just so they could have reserve units to sell after the review, and that I'm dumb for saying Analogue will use pre-orders like they have in the past (or just wait for them to come in stock again), and your reasoning for me being wrong is because they haven't opened pre-orders while they still have consoles in stock. For the love of god you're thick. Now please stop.

They're probably waiting for every model to sell out before they open pre orders. Also they might not open them immediately after. It isn't hard to figure this out if you have an iq over 10. Also the nt mini has had preorders.

Also there is this revolutionary new thing that few people have ever heard of, I hear Analogue likes to implement it. In some circles it is referred to in hushed whispers as... the pre-order! It allows people to order things while they are out of stock, insane I know, but in this modern age (sometime roughly since cavemen discovered the ability to make symbols on walls) we have had the ability to record events, like if someone places an order, and rumor has it this "pre-order" technology makes it possible so that you can order something and the company will remember it until that order can be filled, and then... it ships! Insane I know, but give it a try.

I'm sure some very minor stuff will turn up once hundreds of people start using it but it would take Kevtris several lifetimes to check them all by himself so I'd say that is as close to absolutely perfect as is humanly possible. Especially if the MLiG guys say that because they really go over things with a fine toothed comb. Thumbs way up (as expected).

Yes, us, the niche group. But if Analogue wants to reach the open seas of the everyday market and going from sales in the thousands to hundreds of thousands then they shouldn't do silly things like restrict abilities that their hardware has to sell maybe 1 or 2 more consoles to the niche group when they could sell so many more to the everyday group.

Business 101 is to make your product as appealing as possible and that development costs are far better to have than production costs and that selling more for less better than selling less for more. By making a product more appealing more people buy it. By spending money to have the cores on one console and not trying to sell 3x the consoles all they pay for is having Kevtris design the code and producing a single console. If they wanted to sell core specific consoles they would need to produce 3x the consoles (which might not even be possible depending on their production schedule, or profitable depending on how well the less popular ones sell) and then factor in rmas and ect like for example that a failure rate of 1/100 is considered great and now you're averaging 1 failure per 33 customers. By selling more consoles they get more customers who if their product is good will continue to buy from them in the future and spread word of their products to others. Business 101 is the exact opposite of what you seem to think it is. Also Hyperkin is a dumpster fire of a company btw.

As stated all that would need to be discovered is the algorithm that gets applied to the unique variable for each console and a keygen could be made. Keygens have been around since serial number based unlocks were invented. Analogue as a company never mentioned core updates for the nt mini either. As stated I believe that is to keep their name away from the rom discussion so fans of carts or roms can both enjoy their system without feeling like it caters only to one crowd. And I've already explained why making their console more desirable and keeping it at around the $200 price point would allow them to break into the "everyday" aka "non rich enthusiast" market and the impact that would have.

I'm simply saying without online verification the only way to do it would be a firmware unlock that could be shared, or by locking each firmware to a console specific variable like a random unlock code generated based on the serial number or some other variable unique to each console, but if you figure out the algorithm used to generate the unlock code a keygen could be made. It simply wouldn't be practical on their current hardware was my only point.

Saying that new and awesome things are on the way is a well known selling point that works extremely well. In fact many companies abuse it to sell absolute garbage and rip a ton of people off with promises that will never materialize. Look at 98% of crowdfunded programs. I think my favorite was the kickstarter for a device that lets you breathe underwater (that is scientifically impossible) and shattered its funding goal by miles. People are willing to invest money into things they want and Analogue has delivered in the past so they even have the trust built up to back it up. Promise of future cores would absolutely increase sales.

You can't pay to "unlock" cores. The system has no internet connection so the only way it could verify would be with a firmware update that one person could buy and hand out to everyone. And as I stated, having different versions for ports is fine as long as the cores are available on all of them. LOL no. There is nothing illegal about having cores on their system or else Analogue would be sued for both consoles and Kevtris would be quadruple sued for the jb firmware. Everything about them is 100% legal because they do not violate any copyright laws by including any code/bioses still protected by copyright. My best guess is that Analogue as a company doesn't want to appear to advocate piracy so they are keeping quiet about it because telling people they can play pirated games on it would mean they were advocating it as piracy device which would be illegal as they are telling people to break the law and while they could say that it can play "backups" everyone would know what they were talking about and maybe they wish to avoid that kind of image leaving the ability there for the people that want it while keeping their own name away from "officially" supporting it. They would get a MASSIVE return on their investment because many people would buy the console looking forward to those cores being released and even more would order it after that became a reality. People don't just go "This is awesome... not going to buy it". More awesome = more sales. They did that with the nt mini and it kept that console selling despite the stupidly over priced shell.

As I said, as could I. For fans of the individual system, as long as they don't lock out the ability to have multiple cores on it that is completely fine.

If you're trying to say that selling 3 consoles for $600 is a better outlook than selling 1 console that does everything for under $200 and that will somehow be a better plan for them then that is just completely incorrect. For most people, being around $200 makes it a luxury item, but still affordable. And if it is an amazing product that takes care of everything they want then they can justify the expense. Once they see that it is awesome and it lives up to the hype they develop brand loyalty and continue to shop with Analogue through new releases and revisions as they release better hardware over the years. They also tell/inform their friends about it by talking about it to them or having them play them on it and increase sales that way. For $600 it is too expensive for an incredible amount of people that would have purchased it at $200 and as a result remains a niche fanatic item and never sells as well, or reaches the same word of mouth and just doesn't break into the casual crowd and of the few that do buy it most will not buy all 3 and only buy 1 anyways or at best the 2 that they like the most. Imagine how many more copies the nt mini would have sold if it didn't cost literally $300 more to put an aluminum shell on it. I really want to believe Analogue learned from getting the feedback "great product but stupidly expensive" a few thousand times and won't take it to mean "Lower the costs and reduce the appeal" instead of just "lower the cost" like any sane person would interpret it.

Once again, I'm not saying Kevtris shouldn't be paid for his work. Simply that if Analogue were smart they would pay him based off sales, or simply extremely well/keep him on salary with a lot of development time so that he can continue to produce cores for them and he doesn't lose out as a result. There is a way to not be evil and pay your workers...

They can by all means do that if they want to, but if they prevent code that is perfectly capable of being run on their console in an attempt to get people to pay $600 for something they could accomplish for $200 then that is not okay. Also they will sell less overall units because excellent products for $600 is not as good of a deal as a god tier product for under $200. People are literally killing each other right now because they can save $3 on some hazelnut spread... It would be extremely foolish to say: "Yea what you already bought can totally do that, but we prevented it from being able to and if you want those features we're going to need 400 more dollars and you're going to have to buy the same thing 3 times and setup 3 consoles instead of just 1." If all they want to do is have different shells for fans of different systems that is completely ok, but they were smarter than locking out cores on the nt mini and it would be a shame if they suddenly decided to cripple their own sales because yolo.

Why do you believe that Kevtris doesn't gain any revenue from these cores? We don't know how he is paid (and it would also be rude to ask) but if he is paid based on a percentage of sales then making the product 8 times more popular would be a far better payout for him. I am in no way saying Kevtris shouldn't be well compensated for his work, I simply said that Analogue would be wrong to attempt to bill us double, triple, quadruple, and ect for identical hardware with different code on it. Even if he isn't paid based on sales they could still simply pay him very well for all that he does. They would be very foolish not to considering all that he brings to the table. Like I said, we'll find out soon but I don't want to believe that Analogue would pull a complete 180 and fall to the dark side like that.

We'll find out soon but they would be fools to not allow it to be jailbroken. They would sell to a lot more with one console that could do everything for >$200 than they would with 15 different ones with identical internal hardware. The costs of making the cases for all those consoles would add up and some obviously wouldn't be popular on their own. I really hope they continue their policy of open ended use because that is what made drew me to their products in the first place and I can honestly say they would lose my business if they reversed that policy in a cash grab.