Bubsy3000

I've had a Saturn before but recently at a thrift store I got a Saturn and 30 games and one of the games was Sonic 3D Blast. I played the Genesis version and wasn't too much of a fan but the Saturn Version is a different experience altogether. If the Genesis version did not exist I'd say it would be a stand out NA launch title for the Sega Saturn! It's much better than the Genesis Version and the 3D bonus stages are the star of the show! Now that I have given this game a fair chance I must say that it's better than I orignally thought. I wonder if the game would have been more successful as a Saturn Sonic Title if the Genesis version was scrapped?

Check out Goodwill or random Thrift stores most people don't know what they have found a Saturn a like 20 games for $30 at one.

I think the CD-i has some popular PC games like Myst but I may be mistaken. That plus Flashback and Burn:Cycle equals 3 games already! Just need two more ummmmmmmm......... Tetris and.... Don't think Odyssey^2 would be more obscure, didn't it sell over 2 million copies?

Sorry guys but those adult CD-i games are rated R censored at best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlTLio9o2vI

Are Metal Slug and Contra considered SHMUPS because I know a lot of sites change the rules on whether SHMUPS are games only involving vehicles or people with guns.

I've heard PC gamers talk about the 7th Guest so I suppose that would be a second good game next to Burn:Cycle

Oh it was Martin. Yeah, a lot of publications use him as a key informant. IGN did to.

Looks like you got an in-tact complete Microsvision then! Look like someone didn't realize what they had, especially in the condition it's in.

At least it IS possible to play it without the translation. That's good.

How are the papers? Are they in good condition or torn/bend?

Between this and the guy you said had made up memories about the Panther (Michael?) Imagitec probably never even saw a dev kit.

I really don't get it, we have transparent sales figures for Japan, the Dreamcast had NOTHING to do with the Saturn momentum collapsing that happened BEFOR the DC came out. You could argue it made it worse but the Saturn was already done in Japan by the time the DC came out. The attach rate on the N64 was already almost double the Saturns in 1998 as well. People brought more games on the N64 than the Saturn in Japan across numerous games and not just Mario and Zelda as you continue to imply. Saturn got all the genres covered plus an early system seller with Virtua Fighter and it still collapsed. The reason why we don't see eye to eye is you seem to argue based on the assumption most are anti-Sega. You've made some very odd comparisons to try and explain the capabilities of both the Saturn and the Genesis even though the example used for the two are worse than their competitors. You also haven't really agree on them not having long-lasting Ips otherwise you'd understand it took years before the Genesis started getting hit games. An statement you continue to disagree with despite almost all the best selling Genesis games of 800k or more being post 1992 outside Haltered Beast, Ms. Pacman and Sonic.

US publishers aren't really comparable to the UK/JP but I see where you're coming from. Though I'm curious about your Pit Fighter comment. You think it would have been bad if the 7800 got Pit Fighter? I think it may have helped the 7800 given Pit Fighter was popular at the time. Sure in retrospect it would be a crap game but for the time it may have helped.

Kind of hurts Ataris real historical legacy though. Kind of jerk move against Nolan and Warners Atari to be honest.

It wasn't, because the Saturn was originally doing better and then the N64 caught up and never looked back. Saturn got ports of games selling bucket loads on the PSX that were not on the N64 and the N64 still sold evenly without any of those genres being represented. N64 Jrpgs may have been an issue when competing with the PlayStation but the N64 did not need them to beat the Saturn. You need to realize that not everyone is Anti-sega by pointing out that they didn't handle things well. You're refusal to admit what's well documented by Segas own staff in both countries is baffling.

They aren't skewed. The middle selling games I posted had reached 90% or more of their LTD within 1.5 years or before. The bigger ones like Rayman and Crash sold 1-2 million or more within their first years and then went on to sell 4+ million later. That's still a bunch of million sellers or near million sellers within 1 year of the PSX's life. Rayman was already over 2 million sold after 96 for example. And what am I skewing against? the Saturn? The Genesis? None of those consoles had multiple hit games like the PSX in such a short time frame. There's a reason starting from 1996 PSX exploded. You think it was a ghost that did it? N64 was the one that had games that took awhile to reach high numbers, but many more of those still hit them unlike the Saturn or the Genesis. Twisted Metal sold most of it's LTD when TM 2 came out and T<2 itself reached 1 million in some months. Also you didn't mention 96 you named games like Tekken 3 which was a 1998 game and FF7 which was a 1997 game. PSX had hit games less than 1 year from launch. Same in japan where it got hit games by 95. I don't understand why you're downplaying the PSX software sales here at all.The SNES wasn't as good as the PSX, but you got plenty of games doing over 500k before SF2 which after that, you got many more 1 million games shortly after. The Genesis had Altered beast and Ms. Pac-man before Sonic. Sonic in the US was two years after launch for it to get one huge hitter and only having 2 big hitters before it. There's no spin here, it was a very slow burn, and the Genesis hit games sales would not substantially improve until after 1992 and most of the Genesis best selling games were released post 1992. MK, Aladdin, etc. I also didn't only use million seller. I even mentioned Ridge Racers 500k+ in the US, there are not similarities between the Genesis and the PSX other than you trying your best to waive that it took the Genesis around 4 years to start getting a flow of big hit software. Also your low budget excuses don't mean anything for Genesis sales. We are talking about Console sales not Sega being ok if a game sold 50 copies because they MAY have made money on it. You can't talk about console sales than switch the subject. Those games were not moving the hardware which is why the SNES was quickly able to catch up. Not until Sonic and MK later on did the games start moving significant hardware. None of the other details matter if the goal is to be the #1 console manufacturer. In order to do this you have to sell consoles. Your 3DO stance doesn't make sense, it was price that was the main issue with the 3DO, the price was seen as doom until the Jaguar basically handed 3DO a break. Without a Jaguar there would be nothing there to stop the 3Do continuing to get all the software companies on board and have more time to prepare than react. It still wouldn't be 1st place but it would sell more and the M2 likely would have finished. The 3DO would be $300 by the time the PSX came out. Also yes a Jaguar with a CD drive would have been cheaper in 1995. In 1993 the jaguar launched at $250 and was less than $150 by Christmas 1995. The CD Drive for the Jaguar was $150 and part of it being $150 was due to how it was designed and it being an add-on. But even if you were to assume the CD drive would still be $150 Jaguar would still be under $300 in 1995. It's also logical to come to the conclusion that if the Jaguar was released in 95 instead of 1993 it would have a bump in specs just because of cheaper technology. I don't see why that's something you write off. 32X wasn't the only reason the Saturn failed, so you pretending no 32X gives Saturn a better standing in the US doesn't make any sense. The Saturn still had marketing issues, it still had no message, it still didn't have the games people were interested in, it still would have had the SOJ/SOA in fighting, it still would have been given bad image after Sony's $299, and it still would have pissed off retailers. Sega had been self-destructing since 1994, even without a 32X that wouldn't change. Atari literally would only have to wait and Sega would collapse on itself. Any modest competition to the Saturn by Atari along with the N64 and PSX would have just made Segas situation worse. Atari in 5th gen could have even gone to last place and they still would have taken Segas spot because they still would abandon the Saturn and the DC would still fail. But in reality it's more probable that a complete jaguar with decent games and marketing would sell more than the 2 million or so the Saturn did in NA just by being consistent. This has less to do with being Anti-Sega and more to do with you not acknowledging Sega was their own enemy for years.

No bad for $10.

That's some great luck right there! Along with the box too!

You shouldn't insult yourself like that. After all we need you to bump more old threads in the Want to Buy section because you got nothing else better to do apparently.

We have Japanese sales figures due to the transparency of the tracking organizations, the DC did nothing to cut the Saturns momentum it was already losing Momentum before then. Mario and Zelda weren't the only reasons for it either, N64 best seller list trumps the Saturns yet they sold around a similar amount. If it was just about Jrpgs than the Saturn would have at least produced a gap of a few million, it didn't. More people brought non-rpgs games on the N64 than they brought Rpg games on the Saturn.

Thats an odd cop-out for a small mistake misreading a thrill kill joke. Let's move on, unless you think lashing out is a valid strategy.

'No, Major seller means Major seller. Which the genesis did not have outside of Altered Beast and Ms.Pac-man before Sonic. other systems had games selling near 1 million or hitting past 1 million within the first years, the Genesis had very few even decently big sellers for a long period of time. most of the bigger sellers came after 92. But that's irrelevant, Segas strategy, did not work. So it doesn't matter how you try to keep using it as an excuse for them, it didn't work, they had hot arcade games that looked good and then never kept following through with those games. Outside of Altered Beast not one Sega arcade game sold 1 million on the genesis. Their lack of long-term strategy prevented them from capitalizing on their head start and only started attempting to remedy the problem post Sonic the Hedgehog and still couldn't manage to do it competently. I'm also not overstating anything, you and many other Sega guys continue to waive the fact Nintendo had the perception. it doesn't matter of Virtual Racing had a better chip, Star Fox had the PERCEPTION of being this big behemoth of a game, and the SNES had the perception of being two steps ahead. Sega never put out software, or marketed them competently enough when they did, to get rid of that perception. The fact the SNES was actually more powerful just made that perception stay. It's why VR sdid nothing close to SNES Star Fox, because Sega hadn't done anything to improve the Genesis perception. Also it wasn't just corporate in fighting, you don't make the same mistakes four years in a row ONLY with corporate in fighting. They never had a clear message in the US, they had no idea how to handled the momentum Sonic gave them, their game contract choices and marketing decisions were poor, and all this applies to Japan as well. Genesis was never handled well and that was the main issue with the system. Sonic and MK basically saved it from crashing earlier. Also I have already listed games within the PSX's first year that cover many genres in the above post. But my thing is it's more confusing you're trying to use the PSX situation to help the Genesis, and downplay Saturns mistakes, which doesn't make any sense. Also firstly, the 5200 and 7800 where made by two different Ataris. Secondly, it wouldn't take much for Atari to beat the Genesis for second place. bundled in a good show off game, market titles that have hype from third-parties, and automatically the Panthers is in second place. The incompetence of Sega can't be underestimated.

Ok so heres the thing the PSX was not a slow burn, after the 95 US release the PSX got several hit games in 1996 only 1 year later and some of those games less than 1 year later. Same with Japan with it's 94 release, got his games in 95. Since both launches were late in their launch years you didn't have to wait long. Crash Bandicoot, Area 51, MK trilogy/MK3, Parappa, Fade to Black (ugh), Gex, Jet Moto, Loaded, Myst, Need For Speed, Ridge Racer, Road Rash, Tomb Raider, Tekken 2, Rayman, Twisted Metal 1 & 2, etc all within ONE year. In comparison, only Altered Beast did any real numbers for the Genesis within it's first year. The next beset selling game would be Ms.Pac-man followed by Sonic. You seem to be trying to make an excuses for the Genesis here. The PSX had a variety of hit games most of which hit over 1 million or near that within their first year. Games like Toshinden aren't even on the list. Toshinden didn't even sell 500k in the US. Twisted Metal 1 sold over 1 million units, Twisted Metal 2 almost sold 2. Loaded did over 400k, RidgeRacer was right next to 600k. These were games that sold systems, I don't know why you're trying to downplay them in importance. Using FF7 which came out two years later, and Tekken 3 which came out 8 (both of which sold less than Crash 1, Spyro 1, and Frogger) doesn't really help you here. The PSX had million sellers within its first year, multiple, across genres. Your 3DO stance doesn't make much sense either. The 3DO dropped the price initially due to slow sales, and then continued to do by reaction later. So with no Jaguar they would have a lower early adopter count and would likely drop the price sooner. By 1994 they would hear of the PSX and the Ultra and still would have continued dropping the price, it's just they would have less to worry about in terms for competiting for software. The PSX would still cause Sega to panic and rush in a second VDP. There not being a 1993 jaguar wouldn't change that and I am confused you would think so. in fact Sega might panic more because the 3DO's head start would actually likely be bigger without a Jagur because the 3DO would only start eyeing the PSX and the SAT in 194 instead of wondering if Atari was going to make a comeback. An increased spec jaguar would still be cheaper in 1995 than a $299 PSX so why you think Atari would be equal in price with or without a CD drive doesn't make much sense. PSX would still walk off the stage saying $299 and the new jaguar is cheaper than the Saturn AS WELL? None of that is good for Sega.

The context of my post was in reference to the buyout spree infrogrames was having in the early half of the 90's. Infogrames was growing at a fast pace then as it was happening Atari had already lost it's brad appeal, discontinued the jaguar and got sold to hasbro. It's why even in the US I didn't understand the name change. They had some decent games not developed by brought out studios between 92 and late 90's as well. I don't know what Inforgrames marketing department saw but it told them to first initially name a bunch f American based subsidiaries Atari, and they used the Atari logo for publishing games that would usually have Infogrames logo on them. This eventually led to the full name changes several years later.

Of course I can. Until 1993 Sonic was the only major seller. From 93 onward you got your MK ports, Nba jam etc. The Sega model didn't work, because the two year head start (3 year in Asia) wasn't producing results. Sonic, outside Japan, was the first game that did. The SNES caught up with the GEN way too quick to only blame it on the NES success. It just wasn't doing that great until after Sonic 2. You keep mentioning sports games but those didn't become bigger deals until later either, just modest. There's a reason most of the best selling Genesis games were after 92. There was no real momentum until after Sonic. The SNES million seller lists is across multiple genres and companies. On the Gen Midway alone was over a third. Not to mention Sega was earning less and less money from the arcades as time went on, until the 96 release of the model 3 which then had Sega losing money until Naomi. As for graphics, back then it was all about how clean, realistic, or pseudo 3D your games were and despite the SNES not besting the Gen in all areas it bested it in the areas the US market wanted. With colorful large sprites, and Mode 7. That's one of the reasons the SNES closed the gap so fast. No other console had that when the SNES launched and the Genesis couldn't do it as well as the SNES when it tried to immitate it. Add in Starfox and the SNES had the preception it was always three steps ahead. It may not have been accurate but the perception was there. Meanwhile Sega was struggling to keep the Genesis relevant after mid 94 and couldn't find anything to keep it's lead. Which transferred to the Saturns launch, which other mistakes aside launched with games that the US market had no long-term appeal for. Panther likely would have handled the US market better than Sega.