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the_crayon_king

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About the_crayon_king

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  1. I attached how I do the model 2 port thing. Uh, so I have been testing the R2R DAC into a NTSC encoder (for RGB, Composite, and S-Video) This removes YPbPr which could be re-added through a small addon board. I messed up the order of my bits somewhere so at least one color is inverted (but that doesn't matter for testing p-p). Anyway, I have enough info to start designing a board around this idea. This upcoming board should be inferior to the current board in regard to RGB quality/accuracy (but it puts out Composite and S-Video). So it may be preferable to some people. To be clear this won't be a replacement for the current V5 board just an alternative. I don't want to make estimates on the size or anything at this point. It's a mess but I wanted others to share in the thought of what a pain this was to put together: Black board is current V5 board with the DAC removed. Green board is a handbuilt R2R DAC, Blue board is the BH7236AF encoder circuit. Now I will design this and make it really small. That blue board is kind of cool it's what I use in my personal consoles to get YPbPr, Composite, and S-Video out of anything that has RGBS and a clock. Anyway, the end of this little blurb is that with these components you could technically put out RGB, Composite, S-Video, and YPbPr on the Intellivision and those other consoles I have been working on. I will test this over the next few days and let you guys know what the design will look like (assuming there are no issues). I fixed the pin order so now it works: I see the colors aren't as defined as before. It is likely I just have a bridged pin or something. Other than the color it doesn't appear to look any different than the addon board I have made for the V5 board. Apparently it wants to add the image of the 8pin install to the bottom of the post so:
  2. @SiLic0ne t0aD I am glad everything worked out. And you are correct as long as you don't mix ground or 5V the other wires being mixed around won't hurt anything (it just won't work). Bridging pins is another thing to look out for that could damage things. Like if you have V5 and V4 bridged and one is pulling high and the other low that is potentially like shorting 5V to ground (bad). I am surprised you didn't get the audio buzz. I would suspect the OSSC is just really good at filtering this noise because all of the model 2's I have seen have this noise. That is some clean wiring BTW. You may not know this but the way you ran clock is nice because it is ran perpendicular instead of parallel where it does cross the video lines (this induces the least amount of noise beyond using like a shielded coax cable or something). Anyway, the fastest way to get assistance if you get stuck anywhere is to message me on ebay. I reply on here pretty fast but ebay makes a noise and shows up on my phone. I did get around to writing a tutorial (on the sale page) I had to cut out all the photos I had in there. I fear making it so long will dissuade people from trying it but it's there if you need it. I will post the PDF of the full tutorial when I get around to finishing it (it will have pictures). I think it is against Ebay's TOS to post PDFs on their page's so that will have to be posted here. @Mr. Bildo The NES RGB has a R2R dac similar to what I would want to do, The Atari has a little one but not like a 3X8 bit DAC AFAIK. I will make it eventually. I try to order in bulk and I have a few other things I want to get in. The little expansion board thing (that will be here any day now) should be a little stopgap until I can make an alternative board. @-^CrossBow^- I'm glad you are doing a video. For the record I keep making my own but I don't like how they turn out. Last one wasn't in frame for instance. I remember messaging you about it but I don't think I posted in the thread that I did the pad name change because pin 4 to pad 2 is more confusing than 4 to A or whatever. That way the chart or whatever would look like: AY-3-8915> RGB KIT 1 (VSS) > GND 4 (V5) > A 5 (V4) > B 6 (V3) > C 7 (V2) > D 8 (V1) > E 13(VCC) > 5V 15(CLK) > CLK Otherwise the pin to pad names would just be a bunch of numbers,. I know I have mentioned it but the default pallet is @IMBerzerk's the secondary one is @mthompson's. If I ever have enough room I will make my own pallet for a third option.
  3. Well that is disappointing. I don't feel like making a RGB to component converter atm. Anyway, I wouldn't call it "improved composite" until it's compared to the existing composite mods. The sync is better. The video SHOULD be better but you never really know. I went ahead and ordered 20 of the addon boards. I have like 95% of the parts laying around. I don't want to do anymore testing on this bodge mess I have laying back here. I could make a board that just uses a R2R DAC and the BH7236AF. Pros: Would put out RGB, Composite, and S-Video. More room for other things (another pallet?) Easier to populate Cons: Would have to redesign half the board. Board size would probably triple. YPbPr would be cut and instead have to have an addon board to mix RGB into Pb and Pr. This would be a little SOIC adapter and would float on top of the board. R2R probably less accurate than a purpose built video DAC. BH7236AF is no longer produced (ADV7125 is). Sync on Green won't work either. Lastly, I have to hand-make the design first over here. So soldering like 30 something 30AWG wires to the CPLD and then to a R2R (which would be like 54? resistors) then to the BH encoder. Not fun. I wouldn't mind producing both versions that way if someone really wants composite/S-video and doesn't mind sacrificing accuracy and YPbPr functionality then they can just get that.
  4. There really ought to be a workaround for when you want to send RGBs. If I had a schematic or something to look at I could probably figure something out. Or at least conclude why it won't work. If you had say a black screen on composite then there would be no chroma/luma to strip out. That is why I figured chroma/luma can't be relevant. A black screen on composite looks like C-sync just with blanking and burst (AFAIK) Blank might be relevant but I wouldn't think they would be using burst for anything,. unless a PLL to remake clock? You don't need clock for RGB to YPbPr so I don't think burst makes sense either. That can leave blank/black, the relative DC voltage (sync to not sync or sync to blank), and the P-P of sync as relevant factors unless I am missing something. Maybe the HDR sync stipping is current based which may explain the weirdness.
  5. Yea, I remember that conversation somewhat. I remember saying something like "I am sure someone will want to try it" in reference to the HDR. Now here we are. What I was figuring in the above post is that the sync inside of "Composite" from those kits you see online (for the Intellivision) would be too corrupted. The add on board would be generated from the corrected sync then make actual composite video from mixing RGB so it should in theory be better. If nothing else it will have the "corrected sync" which should be the important part for the HDR. I would figure if you sent C-sync through a 220uf capacitor and a 550ish ohm resistor (in the case of this kit) that it would appear like sync on composite video (on a black screen) minus the clock pulses and blanking. So I really don't get why that wouldn't work. We may have talked about that before. I cannot remember if anyone else has ever tried to send C-sync (or luma for that matter) instead of composite video. I really don't want to buy another device right now. The safer option should be the addon board. The cleaner/cheaper option would be the 220uf + 550ohm resistor but that may not work. On another note I would like to see a comparison between the composite mixed from the RGB kit and the composite mixed from the conventional composite kits. @mattyv316 @Tempest at some point I will get a 5X and brute force sync until hopefully it works. I don't think the sync strike will hurt anything but only one way to know for sure and I don't have one. The composite sync (sync on composite video) you would be sending the 5X would be really corrupted. So if somehow that works and the C-sync out from the board doesn't that will be wild. Did you ever try YPbPr? That may have a different result.
  6. There are not enough points of reference to say conclusively the Retrotink 5X doesn't work (or will never work). Or even where/what the issue is. If the issue is on my end then it is likely the sync signal (STILL?!) which doesn't make much sense,. seeing as how even the old broken sync worked on the RT2X. The other issue could be the console timing (clock drift?). I still think the 5X is over correcting something. I don't want to send a bunch out there that get refunded because of 5X incompatibility. I would prefer people buy these that have a known compatible device (if they have a 5X in addition that is great). That said if you wanted to by one and try it., I would refund if it didn't work out. I think you would be out the 2$ shipping but that's it. I have done deals like that before on a case by case basis. All I would ask is you break the board and send a pic and I would refund. May want to troubleshoot a bit first. Edit Sync output from the CPLD is technically faster than it should be (by whatever the delay of the DAC is). So trying SOG (sync on green) or YPbPr might reveal something. Since in both those cases those would be timed with the RGB outputs. I dunno if the 5X supports SOG. I would expect a "fast" sync to just shift the picture left or right by a pixel or so, I don't know if that is a possible issue here. I do see in the notes of the 5X that "Not all TVs will be compatible with all modes, particularly 1440p".
  7. This might work for you: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/3cOVvV5Q I wrote in what goes where. I don't plan to do more edits to it before trying it myself. For the Intellivision you would jumper both pads named CLKA. There is a reason for the CLKB but that is for other consoles. Refer to the description for minor info. Or just ask me if you have any questions. I have the rough version of this circuit built out over here and it works. Still don't know about the HDR tho.
  8. If it were me I would try to add a resistor to Csync and make it match what would be used for sync on composite video (its p-p). I am not sure if this would work since I don't know if the HDR is using other parts of the composite video signal. If you added somewhere around a 550 ohm resistor to the S (sync) output that might be enough to make it work? That would make sync about 300mv p-p which I would think is what the HDR is looking for but I have no idea. <<This would be a kind of do at your own risk kind of thing. Otherwise you would have to involve actual composite video (which is a lot of effort). I am still testing the circuit but I should have enough parts laying around to make a few boards that can put out all of the things. You may get away with the other composite mods out there; but those mods would be missing some sync pulses which may be bad for your end device. --------------------------------- Intellivision over composite (through RGB kit + mixing) VS RF for comparison. Some of the aberrations like those horizontal lines are just from trying to take a pic of a CRT. This shows the signal is at roughly 1v P-P when terminated. ------------------------ Anyway, TLDR I can make some composite/S-video boards. Or if you are handy with a soldering iron you could make your own. I will upload the board to OSHpark once I am done testing.
  9. This board already puts out YPbPr. So if you wanted to use the HD-Retrovision cable you would make the board output RGB and then convert that to YPbPr. I am not sure why you would want to do that over just using the native YPbPr and a RCA cable. The kit also puts out C-sync not sync on composite video. That means the HDR probably won't work without some sort of modification of the sync signal. I am making an addon board that will sandwich on the other board and put out RGBs, S-video, and Composite. (this board is what I am currently testing). You could probably use that to do what you are thinking. Although, I would advise against it since you are doing an extra unnecessary conversion of analog RGB to YPbPr, when the kit can already do this conversion more precisely at the digital bits. Someone with the RGB/YPbPr board and a HDR cable ought to try it (if they haven't already) and report back.
  10. Ok, so the newer mod kit has finally been tested against my older mod. The sawtooth pattern doesn't seem present (at least on the OSSC). It might still be there. I don't anticipate making any changes unless someone comes forward with some specific color pallets. I will put these up for sale soon. I don't know how these will stack up against any of the other mods out there. Image looks a little soft. There is nothing I can do besides tweaking the OSSC settings to make it look any better. It should be noted those red specks in the gameplay are in the game not some kind of glitch on the part of the kit.
  11. I only ever managed to get drops on the 2X with Thunder Castle (when the wizard shows up and then stage 2 onward). Which doesn't happen anymore as far as I could tell. It is looking for 'sync on composite video' or C-sync (composite sync[combination of horizontal and vertical sync)? I would think he meant C-sync not the other one. The composite video coming out of the composite mod kit would be super corrupted. I took a picture from the video you made. To me it doesn't look like it is losing sync so much as it is starting the new frame at the bottom of the video. That little quarter of an inch or so should be at the top of your video. The video appears to alternate where it puts the start of this line; which is causing the up and down jitter. What is causing this or what the soultion is I don't currently know but I am open to ideas. I am thinking that the 5X is over correcting something.
  12. You can remove the RF module. It has no effect on the sound or video (as far as this kit is concerned). Composite mods designed by others will not work if you remove RF tho.
  13. @Reality Studio I uploaded a picture of the audio spot on the model 1. You would probably want to do something different on the model 2 since it is super noisy. I have a bypass for the model 2 discussed somewhere in this thread. @mattyv316 Nice chart. What does "mostly works" mean exactly? I am just curious since I have the 2X SCART as well. It is weird that of the RT products some work and others don't. It worked on my OSSC with no adjustment; you would expect the 5X to be as good as or better in that regard. @-^CrossBow^- 2X looks so much worse than 5X on the OSSC. Other than being dark it looks like I would expect in 2X mode. I am not sure why the capture card wouldn't work on a standard resolution. If anyone has an inkling I would love to hear it. I was thinking refresh rate. The OSSC says Intellivision's (at least mine) is 59.82. I figured the line doublers would repeat or subtract frames to hit whatever the HDMI standard is. So I am not sure if that is or isn't relevant. If the problem is sync needs formatted differently I could tweak it. There is a limit to how much can be done on a CPLD and we are around it. If I had something here that didn't work I could finagle something until it worked (that's how I got to OSSC functional).
  14. All I did was use the same pallets as the Arcadia (full saturation) but it does have a secondary lighter pallet. I am in North America. Really what I need is someone that knows where all the things are because I don't have this console in order to point things out. I wrote the code but I really need to make sure that it mirrors the existing RGB schematic. I am just doing what they are doing but with code. You would need to know where the O/S, C1, C2, C3 pins then blank sync and clock. The attached picture shows the relevant points. There are 2.2k pullups on the schematic (for C1-C3 and O/S) but if those are not there then you will have to add them. I forgot to mention, but this is unscaled YPbPr. You need something in order to interface with it., else if you sent it direct to the TV it would probably not look good if it even worked at all. If you are going to a old CRT then you are good to go. Can you tell if there is enough room for the 5 RCAs you need for YPbPr + audio?
  15. @-^CrossBow^- Does your capture card usually work with scaled (beyond 2X) 240 sources ? I had the same issue on my old CRT HDMI TV and my Happauge capture card (Colossus 2). This worked on my datapath capture card. The Datapath can usually be found for under 100., I'm not sure what the specific model is. In practice it has output everything I have put into it; but it needs it's settings tweaked for best visuals. TLDR the two problems I see left: There may be instances where the TVs need a specific refresh rate. Would need a clock bypass (like the SNES dejitter). The other possible issue is sync may still need some tweaking. It's kind of hard to make correct sync when it is simply not there. On a CPLD I mean. With a FPGA it would be easy. --------- My long term plan is to get scaled HDMI. I don't care about HDMI as much as getting RGB/YPbPr so that are where my priorities are. Beyond that I don't plan to stop making the Intellivision boards or anything. I just want to put out the other kits as well. Even if the demand for RGB kits for those other consoles will be super low (maybe 10 a year) I still need them for my own uses so I might as well make them available. It helps that everything is on the same shared board so I can afford to make more than I could otherwise. Short term I am working on the O2 atm. Also I shot a video but I have no idea how to edit the video. I may just open up pre modded consoles and describe what I did and why I did it. Then just upload that as is.
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