Scott Stilphen

Russ: According to Len, Baer didn't consider Computer Space a video game at first because he thought it used a monitor (it used an actual TV set, as did a lot of the early arcade games). By this line of thinking, all arcade (raster) games that used a monitor would not fit his definition- basically every game produced since the early 70s! After having worked on arcade machines for over 8 years now, I can tell you that aside from some additional circuitry (most TVs use an RF input - this isn't needed with arcade monitors since the video signal isn't being 'broadcast' from a remote location) it's the same principle technology. In fact, most higher-end TV sets now are TV/monitor sets, which have direct video input jacks (RCA, S-video, etc.) that bypass the standard RF circuitry and help give you a better picture. I've run arcade games like Pac-Man on a TV (on my test rig). In fact, a few people have found that a regular 19" color TV tube can be used to replace Atari's arcade color vector tubes! Games run on an emulator such as Z26 are still video games, even though you're seeing them on a monitor. Nintendo had Gameboy store kiosks that used 13" TVs. There's a company that designed and sells(still ?) a device that allows you to use a TV with a Lynx. There's even a few old LED hand-helds that have been emulated. NEC's handheld had an optional TV Tuner device. What about Ben's VCSp? It doesn't take long to realize that Baer's definition quickly falls apart. Does the definition then change, depending on the type of screen used to view it? To be technically correct, it should. The term 'video game' (who came up with this term - was it Baer?) probably was created for the reasons you stated, but to me, "video games" encompasses many times, not just 'TV games' or 'raster games' (which would be more accurate IMHO). If you use it this way, then specific LED games (Virtual Boy = Adventurevision = EDSAC games) and LCD games (Lynx = Gameboy = Microvision) would fall under that. Something like Mattel's Football handheld wouldn't fit, since it's matrix 'resolution' so low that you couldn't even display an alphanumeric character with it. Same with those cheap LCD games that use specific character "images". This is why I was leaning more towards a definition that took into account the resolution of a given matrix (Btw, Microvision is being included in DP Guide #7, and no, I didn't lobby for it ). Video game or videogame debate I've always used video (adjective) game (noun). You don't see boardgame, electronicgame, puzzlegames, etc. Len: I've never seen videotape (one word) used as much. Why would it be specific to 'video'? I've seen microcassette, but not 8-tracktape or cassettetape [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

quote: Originally posted by Curt Vendel: Higinbotham created what could be considered the first video game using electronics... he did not market the product. Its the first commercial arcade game we're talking about, not the first video game or first home video game. Did the Brookhaven National Lab charged people to for their tours? If not, what if they did? If I have to pay a cover charge to get into an arcade full of games set on free play, I'm still paying to play the games quote He (and countless other who contributed to it) wrote a program, whereas the others designed hardware to run their game "programs". Spacewar was certainly groundbreaking, but I don't think he's on equal footing, as far as being considered the sole "Father of". If you consider the first to do it the Father, then as it stands it's Higinbotham; if you count greatest contributions to, then it's both Baer and Bushnell. (Btw, here's a site with some information Spacewar) As for Pitts, didn't he develop his game about the same time Nolan did CS? He did about as much with his game as Higinbotham (and if he really made any serious money with it, then he was a fool not to follow it up). He's an important footnote, but not much more. This is one of those subjects that may never have a general consensus [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

Rhindle: Thanks for clearing that court case up. Wow, I can't believe Nintendo was trying to prove that video games weren't new...in the 60s! Talk about trying to stretch a chiclet to the moon... quote Good question. Looks like a very primitive dot-matrix display (35x16, from the picture). Guess it depends on your definition of what constitutes a video display. How many "dots" (light bulbs/LEDs/LCD pixels/TV pixels, etc) can you matrix together before it can no longer be considered a dot-matrix or "electronic" display? I don't consider the old LED or LCD hand-held games video games, but rather electronic games. Certainly Gameboy qualifies as such. What about Adventurevision or Microvision? DP lists AV in their guide, and its display resolution appears comparable to the EDSAC's, whereas MV isn't listed but can certainly be viewed as the forerunner to Gameboy (same principle of LCD display, only with lower resolution). I think this is where the real definition of video game lies. [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

Maybe they just had plans to and never did, which is how this rumor(?) got started.

quote: Originally posted by Rhindle The Red: Wrong. From "Who Did It First" by Ralph Baer: Yep, that's the website quote I was referring to. Baer also seems to think that, since Higinbotham didn't patent his invention, or pursue development on it and make it into a commercial product, that somehow he loses his claim of being the first to create a video game. It wasn't enough that the demo was open to the public, and was used for 2 years, or that he thoroughly documented his work on it. How he ever sold his 'definition' to the court (in the Nintendo v. Sanders lawsuit) I'll never understand... The article about Higinbotham on that same site first appeared in an issue of Creative Computing Video & Arcade Games magazine, and is actually 3 pages long (if anybody wants, I can scan it in). I also heard his tennis game referred to as "Tennis for Two". I've met and talked with Baer in person, and he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. But the bottom line is, Higinbotham was the first to do it, with Steve Russell following him. Whether or not Baer (or anyone else) accepts that is their problem.

No matter where you are in the secret kingdom, you should see the effects of using paddles. Maybe there's a problem with your system or controllers? Tony can probably explain the details of this better than anyone else.

Found this pic in book, The Complete History of Computer and Video Games, page 33: I didn't see any mention of what system it was for, but it was probably for a Euro system, possibly MSX. Any one know more about this? They also mention Elite did a Dukes of Hazzard game.

That game is buggier than a house full of termites...

There's really no one definitive "father" of video games. Certainly Nolan made the greatest contribution, by getting the technology out of the labs and enlightening the 'masses', but Baer was working on designing games years before Nolan soldered his first Computer Space circuit. Just as Computer Space was a knock-off of Steve's Space War, and Al Alcorn's Pong was a knock-off of Baer's Odyssey tennis, even Baer wasn't the first person to make a video tennis game - Higinbotham made his in the late 50s. Personally, I don't buy into Baer's definition of a video game, since it only includes raster-based games (excluding any vector games like Asteroids, Tempest, and particularly Higinbotham's tennis game. Yes, his tennis game used vacuum tubes instead of transistors. So freakin what? Wasn't Space War originally designed on a tube-based PDP? It's still a game that uses a VIDEO display. Does that mean the early vacuum-tubed TV sets weren't really raster displays? Does that mean if I play a 2600 on a projection TV, it's no longer a video game? His definition is not only very limited, it's absurd.

Merlin's Walls - has anyone ever solved this game?

I always thought it was 8C, but BC would make a little more sense(?) Maybe Thomas can look at the code and see if it's a glitch or intentional

I just checked the Voyage catalog entry with Crash Dive - it is the same game. Another mystery solved.

quote Uh....what? When did Taito and Coleco become the same company?

quote: Originally posted by Curt Vendel: Glenn actually it wasn't THE first.... in fact technically Computer Space was NOT the first commercial video game... Yeah it was. Since when does a prototype constitute a commercial product? quote Pitts game was a prototype, and AFAIK only 1 was ever built. Besides, I find it very hard to believe that he made $60K off a prototype. A top game like Pac-Man made maybe $2K average a month at its peak quote Undisputed? Ever hear of Higinbotham and Baer? [ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is another one that's probably out there. There's a catalog that has artwork and a (mock) screen shot for it.

Sorry for any confusion - the catalog pic is definitely not an actual screen shot, but given how accurate it is, I tend to think there is (or was) a more complete version of this, which included the ref.

Here's the 1983 catalog screen picture, for reference:

The original isn't clear to begin with, and the scan was at 600 dpi. There's just no way to get a better picture.

I have a brochure (actually just an 11"x17" piece of paper folder in half) for the Atari Age magazine. One of the inside pages has a full-page picture of 2 kids - one is holding the 1st issue of AA, and other is looking at a mag that's open, which shows (turned side-ways): The left page shows nine 2600 boxes (I can make out the center one as Breakout); the right page is titled "A Double-Barreled Challenge!" and shows 2 game boxes and screen shots (the right one appears to be Night Driver). Here's the mystery - neither one of these ads appear in any issue of Atari Age, and I don't recall ever seeing either in any other magazines (has anyone?). If so, then what is this publication being shown? An early draft of an AA issue? Some in-house publication? A CES brochure? [ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] [ 03-06-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

You might be right. Maybe this was a new 'approach' to writing games for both NTSC and PAL markets. Btw, had a chance to look at this game more closely. If you noticed in the 1983 poster catalog, the picture shown depicts a referee at the bottom of the screen. Although no ref appears in the game, I did find a character graphic that may be the ref; it doesn't appear to be used as one of the player animations. Looks like there's a few suprises hidden away in this one (stay tuned)... [ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

Build Chris Wilkinson's "cheat" circuit (in the latest issue of 2600 Connection). Btw (Chris, if you're reading this...), what's the status on your A/V boards??

Weird! I never realized that before. Basically then, it's neither NTSC or PAL. I wonder why it was programmed that way.

No PAL markings at all?? That label style of carts usually have a small "p" on the side/end label.

Maps were printed in a back issue of 2600 Connection - check here for a list.

There are 2 different NTSC versions (one allows you to turn the star field off with the TV Type switch) - are there 2 different PAL versions as well?