Scott Stilphen

Thanks Twit! Look forward to seeing it. I can't believe your's is the only one known to exist. I've been asking around, but nobody has replied.

quote: Originally posted by Thomas Jentzsch: But how do you prove the non-existance of something??? Complete disassembly That's the only way to be 100% sure. quote I'm not doubting that, but I'd still like to see if the other key can be uncovered, regardless of whether or not it earns points. I'm not a programmer, but it seems reasonable that setting a variable to 0 would be a quick way to "disable" the action, w/o having to go through the whole program and take out the code for the action. From the info you mentioned, the act of uncovering the 2nd key is most likely this unknown action. Perhaps the code to reveal the initials is still in there. Either action (or both) most likely would have affected the score. Maybe HSW had enough time to remove all traces of the JD code before the final release. Prototypes (if they are different) will certainly shed some light on what alternate ideas HSW had for ROTLA. quote I wasn't referring to how it was coded, but rather the method of calculating your score. It's much easier to simply count the # of circles on the pedestal than to count every line of resolution. I suspect HSW did this to make it harder for someone to figure out what actions affected your score. The difference a point makes to the pedestal would go unnoticed by most people (even with the slight color change).

Ah, but we do have a lead.....the extra key!

If the maximum is indeed 82, it sounds like the code for the "unknown" action is still in there - HSW just made it so that it wouldn't give any points. So the question is....what's the unknown action?

Here are all the known actions, with the correct point scale: +24 (start with) +12 USING SHOVEL IN MESA +10 FINDING ARK + 3 USE OF PARACHUTE + 9 USE OF ANKH + 5 UNCOVERING YAR +14 LOCATING ARK IN MAPROOM + 3 LANDING IN MESA + 1 FINISHING GAME WITH 1 LIFE LEFT + 2 FINISHING GAME WITH 2 LIVES LEFT +-0 ?? UNKNOWN - possibly related to "JD" ? - 2 BLOWING HOLE IN ENTRANCE ROOM -13 USING SECRET EXIT IN DUNGEON - 4 SHOOTING/WHIPPING THIEVES So it appears whatever the unknown action is/was, it made up for the missing 10 points (maximum being 92). [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

Hmm..HSW counted every line of circle resolution as a point.... ..which explains why my system of making 1 circle = 1 AP didn't quite work Nothing like making it more complicated than it has to be! That Warshaw is a tricky one ("The man is....nefarious.") Now to recalculate my chart... quote: Originally posted by StanJr: Are you sure the 3 item combo in the mesa generates a YAR? I know HSW says so, but two YARS in the same game sounds redundant. These guys have mixed stuff up before. Could this hlep with the JD initials or even lead to a totally new egg? Not sure about that one. Nothing has been found in the code yet to substantiate it, but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to it [Tempest] I doubt there are 2 released versions (but who's to say....). As for Fulop's initial-less Missile Command, regardless of what he says, nobody has yet proved it. If any of those exist, there is very few of them (i.e. maybe the very last run produced). [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

As of now, Thomas and myself are pretty much convinced that the graphics for the JD logo aren't in the release version, which means earlier versions (such as Twit's proto, and others, if they're out there) may very well contain that code. One theory is that the graphics were erased (there seems to be a "gap" in the code, where the graphics could have been), but the code to trigger them may still exist. If that's the case, it would be a simple matter of "plugging" in the missing data to make it work. However, finding the 2nd key seems to be a real possibility. Plus remember that 2.5 points is still unaccounted for (a fairly large amount - nearly 10% of the total!). Besides trying to figure out how this works, Nukey Shay and Thomas are looking closely at the scoring routines. It may be possible to work "backwards" - find out how the scoring works, and see how the missing points are involved. Interesting quirks: If you don't blow the hole in the wall, and instead enter the Temple Entrance via the marketplace, you can exit through the hole leading back into the Entrance room, going right through the wall! You can also enter the T.E. room via the Marketplace if the secret walls have been triggered, which is strange since you can't enter via the Room of the Shining Light (dungeon room). Is the 2nd grenade involved somehow? Perhaps there's a way to detonate it while in the same room, and not be killed? And why would HSW bother to made 2 seperate grenade icons (the Black Market one appears reversed in the inventory screen, to the Marketplace one), if they both apparently work the same way? There is more to the Entrance room than it appears [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

He also mentioned that it would most likely appear in a resolution twice as wide (like the rock, whip, and blast hole graphics) and be light-grey in color. With the info we have so far, the screen might look something like this:

I got my answer from the man himself, "It's because I just used the 6 character kernel for the score & left one frame of the previous score in the kernel & I think that's why you see the numbers just before I switch the 6 character kernel to display the text(Goons, Nods etc.)."

That's what Thomas is trying to determine. Btw, here's a picture (courtesy of Luc Pycke of the mystery key, as it appears in the code: According to Thomas, the way it's coded, the key would appear somewhere above the blast hole. Perhaps there's another secret spot somewhere in the game (like the trap door in the dungeon) that you have to hit just right to unlock something? Maybe this action is tied in with the timepiece (as the appearance of the key in the Black Market is) How does the VoP/master thief tie in to all this? Perhaps he has to steal certain objects from you, and/or you have to shoot him to get them back? (shooting him normally costs you a point, but maybe a specific action doesn't) Flying YAR/3 objects in inventory: it would take a lot of playing to try out every possible combination (on the level of 'Swordquest'!) If the YAR graphic is reused somewhere, it *should* be fairly easy to track down in the code. [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

Sorry Tempest, the "secret" room turned out to be the Entrance room (see how quickly things change? Haha! I emailed Howard just last week, when we found Jerome's initials. Haven't heard back from him. I tried emailing Jerome a few years ago, but he never responded. If anyone has contact with them, please forward our questions (or a link to this thread) to them.

Thomas has found that the mystery key is coded as an on-screen graphic (not an inventory item) and that it seems to appear (somehow) in the entrance room! Perhaps this was something that was planned but never used, but it's hard to believe he would code an object w/o using it. The mind fairly reels.. [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

No, it's no different using the -5 command than w/o it, it just plays a little slower [ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

I think pink was the highest level

Any idea why some of the colors in Raiders of the Lost Ark are wrong (especially the Valley of Poison screens)?

I simply made the graphics for the platform long enough that they filled in the spaces.

quote: Originally posted by Deleto: It's all true, I witnessed all the beating, titty-signing and did all the drinking in Philly... Yeah, you might say it was 'Jungle Boogie' madness

Btw, I'm comparing the cart with the Z26 emu version. To my ears, they sound similar, but note-for-note they are not the same. If this is b/c of the emu, perhaps Eckhard could explain why this is.

My cart plays a different starting tune than the ROM version in circulation. Can anyone verify this, and possibly dump the other one?

quote: Originally posted by StanJr: Scott, how concrete is your scoring guide? I'm going to be using it as a guide for the next leg of the quest. It's pretty close, but not 100% accurate b/c as I mentioned, not every scoring action can be evenly counted in points or half-points. For example, something that gives a half point might actually look like 2/3rds of a circle, instead of a perfect half circle. I have no idea why it isn't. Certainly would have made things *much* easier to understand if everthing was scored in whole points!

I wonder if there's any correlation between this new site and the atari2600.com site recently being taken "hostage"....

On the arcade machine, there's a screen which lists all the different characters. The pigs and savages are called Amidar (the ones that only patrol the outside border are called Tracers). Tell me this game wasn't some drug-induced nightmare. Can the 2600 version run any slower? Gawd, what a terrible translation... [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ]

quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: Oh...when Scott Stilphen posted that you could win with all three treasures in inventory, the Ark would have to be in a bordering mesa...so you would need to try a -few- games before it showed up there. That would make it easier, but not required. Get on top of the mesa with the Ark and simply press the button when the hook is in the air. When you start falling, quick change the inventory indicator to the parachute and go inside the mesa.

E.T. is another game I would love to see disassembled someday. I'm interested in learning how to trigger the glitch that (rarely) causes more than 31 candies to appear in a round, which will inadvertently cause the HSW3 signature to appear. Can either of you offer some tips as how to go about learning? What program(s) do you use, list of commands and their meaning, etc.?

quote: Originally posted by Thomas Jentzsch: But there are some other objects I can't identify. What other ones have you found? The only one I know of is that small key. quote I'll have this made today.