Mr_8bit_16bit

you know what? I can remember all 19 of the games that came with the 2600. Many of which I still consider some of the greatest 2600 games of all time. I thought I'd remembered it only coming with 17, yet I clearly remember playing all of these right after bringing it home, so 17 must've been a made up number. They were (in no order): Combat, Mario Bros., Centipede, Asteroids, Vangard, Defender, River Raid, Pitfall, Donkey Kong Jr., Super Breakout, Q-Bert, Night Driver, Missle Command, Football, Basketball, Bowling, Superman, PacMan, and Yar's Revenge. Again, most of those are on my "All time greatest" 2600 games list, and not a whole lot of games not on this list are.

I actually got into console gaming late. It was summer 1988, I was 8, and we got a used Darth Vader 2600 with 19 games at a garage sale... if I thought really long and hard, I could probably remember what games they were. After that, it was the NES (new, not used) for Christmas of 1989. Super Mario/Duck Hunt came packed in (of course) and we also got Donkey Kong Jr. and Excitebike (each used) Then Christmas of 1992 saw us with the SNES (new) Of course Super Mario World came packed in. We also got Zelda, a link to the past and Spiderman/X-Men (both new) Ironically, we had almost got a TG16 that year instead of the SNES (my brother and I discovered the TG16 while snooping around mom and dad's room just beofre christmas while they were gone....hey, I was 12, he was 11...that's what kids do) So we were very surprised to see the SNES on Christmas morning. Looking back, bless her for making the switch. :-) In Sept 1993 we got a used Genesis with Sonic, and X-Men. I know you only wanted the one, but oh well, the first four, and ironically, my favorite four (albiet in reverse order)

Especially if in terms of hardware it's gonna be the least advanced of the three.

JBanes, I agree to a point with the arcade being able to offer a few extras that the console version wouldnt. Big picture, loud sound, rumble, immersion. But with the exception of the vibrating seat (and for enough money even that too) those are all things you could get from a good home theater system. Sure, the DC version of Hydro Thunder on a 20" TV using the TV speakers is gonna lack the panache of the arcade, but with the right stuff at home, you can more or less or more replicate the experience. Unless you're so into the ambience of the place that you've just got to have the din of other arcade machines surrounding you. But my point was this: that the extreme majority of arcade gamers stopped caring about the aesthetics once console technology caught up, or at least stopped caring enough to spend the money. Sure there are people who thrive on the ambience. And, on the other hand, there were people who would rather play an inferior version at home than pump Georges into a superior version in the arcade. There are people on both extremes, but the bulk of people once they could have the goods at home stopped caring about the vibrating seat....especially those of us who have big home theater systems. Afterall, a good subwoofer can rumble a seat too. However you do bring up two good points: 1) which I mentioned earlier, is that a fringe group of people would still have rather had gone to the arcades for the ambience and perks of it, and 2) more of us than there were would probably have been in that first group of people had not the price of games skyrocketed. But I do stand behind what I said earlier, that despite there being several lesser reasons for the arcade's demise, the major reason, the main reason, was mainstream, mass affordable console hardware technology catching up with and eclipsing arcade hardware technology.

oh, okay. I wasn't quite sure what was going on, I had just heard something about them buying back games and destroying them.

Intersting?! I believe the words you're looking for are: FREAKING SWEET! I honestly am inclined to doubt it, but since Sega doesn't have it's own system anymore, I certainly wouldn't call it impossible. I won't hold my breath for it, but one can hope. Well, yes and no. Sim City was originally made by maxis and then licensed to Nintendo, but rather than this being a straight port of the PC version, it's more like Maxis gave Nintendo permission to use the name and general game construct to make it's own first party game. It's an encouraging sign, but I'm holding my breath til a true 3rd party game pops up, like, say Street Fighter, or Contra. And very interesting choice of wording on that SNES bit. Load time on a cartridge is an absolute SIN! On the subscription thing: I think that it's gonna be one or the other for charging. I too doubt that they're gonna charge for the service and then pay again to use the service. But I hope that N64 games cost less than $20! I'm very very glad to see the revolution is doing this with the old games, but it makes perfect sense for Nintendo. Nintendo of today is essentially doing battle with Nintendo of yesterday in that people are spending less on buying new games (buying less new games) and putting alot more money into buying old games at places like Gamerz. So not only is Nintendo of Yesterday a much more powerful entity than Nintendo of Today, it is also unsurprisingly winning. I heard rumors of Nintendo going out, buying games from older systems back and destroying them, or in some cases, even trying to procure the games back without buying them. All in an effort to eliminate the competition with itself. Well, that creates a lot of bad feelings with gamers. So, what's a company to do? Dust off the copyrights and licences and sell them again. Thus eliminating the competition by essentially merging. If you can't beat them, join them!

Them's fightin' words! Seriously, what's wrong with Hydrothunder? I always thought it was a great game. Probably the last arcade game to ever drain quarters from my pocket. It was especially fun if you found an arcade that had four of the machines linked up. Almost (but not quite) as fun as playing against friends in San Francisco: Rush. I'm not knocking Hydro-Thunder as a game (even though I only ever thought it was moderately cool.) What I'm doing is elaborating on the comment that Tekken killed the arcade. I think that rather than Tekken killing the arcade, Tekken landed the deciding blow that left the arcade crippled, bleeding and screaming. I believe Hydro Thunder was the coupe de gras. Walking up to the incapacitated foe and deftly and effortlessly slicing it's throat and letting it quickly and quietly bleed to death. Morbid analogy, huh? Let me take it one step further. What little arcades are left are usually nickel arcades/pool halls. Usually filled with games 10-20yrs old. Well that's just finding the corpse, picking it up and dancing with it. His postuation for Tekken killing the arcade is that the home version was arcade perfect and almost simultaneous in it's release. And that once arcade perfect was capable at home, the desire to go to the arcade to pump laundry money into arcade machines went away..afterall, they were no longer technically superior......they had nothing to offer that your TV at home couldn't with a PS1 plugged in. Well, that's largely true, but not quite perfect. I think the problem with it is that arcade perfect ports were still the exception then, most of the arcade games either had higher polygon counts, or better anti-pixelation, or were faster, or higher colored, with better shading, or simply had larger characters and more detailed landscapes, especially with the Sega games. Still the differences at this point were negligable, nothing of the iron dominance the arcade once had, not enough of a difference to matter to all but the most particular (like me.) Hence, the crippling blow to the arcade. Yet there still were difference, that elusive arcade equality was still, well, elusive. And to the freaks and geeks, that was enough to bring them still...and freaks and geeks were the lifeblood that the arcade originally lived on. Still, the arcade was unable to stand. All it was able to do was simply fail to die...until the dreamcast came along. The dreamcast completely and utterly eliminated any and all technical advantages of the arcades, and so the lifeblood of freaks and geeks poured out of the slit throat of the arcade and into the dreamcast store. I use hydro-thunder as an example, cause it was an arcade perfect port, and if I remember correctly, hit the arcade right about the same time the DC hit the shelves.... With the PS1 and Saturn, the console hardware was just barely inferior so the games were just barely inferior to the arcade ports, in other words, arcade perfect was the exception. With the dreamcast, the hardware was actually superior, so the only time the DC version was inferior to the arcade was if the programmer of the DC port was stupid, lazy or both...like Rush 2049. In other words, arcade perfect was now the norm. There were no longer hardware limitations. Those of us who couldn't afford the Neo Geo AES back in 1990 were finally able after all these years to truely, utterly have the arcade at home....in 1999. And what's the point in going to the arcade then? Granted, the arcade hardware has grown along with the console since then, but hasn't regained it's superiority, in fact, I think it's still managed to lose a little ground since the Dreamcast where it was more or less level, and almost all of those games that are being built on the newer hardware are foreign release only (I.e. Japan) At first I rejoiced at this. No longer any need to go to the arcade when I could have it from the comfy cozy of the couch. But looking back, I see now exactly what we lost in order to have arcade perfect at home, and I'm not sure whether it was worth it or not. So, in answer to your complaint, no, I'm not trashing Hydro-Thunder, I'm just saying it played a role. It didn't do it singlehandedly, of course, but it was instrumental, and a good example of the demise of the arcade.

I know it's already been touched up on, but let me elaborate: Double Dragon absolutely should have made the list. It was the watershed 3/4 perspective fighting adventure game. I could be wrong, but I believe it was actually the first of it's kind. In any case, the primarily side-scrolling adventure with the ability to also move up and down in the path added so much depth to the playability and spawned millions of spin-offs, some generic, some noteworthy, like the TMNT arcade games and Final Fight. It was it's own genre if you will, and it stayed popular for a long long time, even dominated for a little while. Double Dragon is a pivotal game in arcade history and deserves to be on the list. Also: Tekken or Ridge Racer does deserve to be on the list because it did spark the change in deseigner mentality, a change that I praised in the day, but now wish had never come. It did begin to blur the line between home and arcade, and it did wear away at the arcade's supremecy, but I would'nt say that was the signing of the death warrant. That forshadowed that death and ensured it's coming, but was not the death itself. I'd say that the arcade still had a hardware advantage over the consoles up until the Dreamcast. It was actually the dreamcast that finally signed the death warrant, not the PS1. The PS1 is what put the death warrant on the desk...or was it? The PS1 was the first time that a popular mainstream home console even began to approach arcade levels, but The Neo Geo MVS was just a Neo Geo AES with a multi-port for multiple cartridges at once. The Neo Geo AES games were in every way identical to their MVS counterparts (same cartridges) I think maybe the Neo Geo may have had a bigger role in the death of the arcade then you implied. The Dreamcast may have been the first time you couldve had arcade perfect on a mainstream console, but not the first time you could have arcade at home period...that distinction goes to the Neo Geo AES. And once you had an arcade perfect port make it home, it was a only a matter of time before that kind of thinking caught on. So, to use my original analogy, perhaps the Neo Geo wrote the warrant, the PS1 brought it to the attention of the one with the power to decide, and the dreamcast was the signing. Perhaps a better example of the actually death warrant of the arcade would be, say, Hydro Thunder.

Sonic Adventure has some really good stuff interspersed amid a whole bunch of stuff ranging from "Ehh" to "Gahh!" I did like the music in the Lost World for one. Speaking of Sonic, the original Sonic is really good and so is a lot of the music in the Saturn version of Sonic 3D. Jewel Master on the Genesis has some really good stuff too, as does Strider.

I know, except my main point of this thread was to see what other people thought of the old video game music. I know that as a general rule, the PS and DC are considered "classic," but I didn't want to include them in this thread (although I can't stop people from posting anything they want). On my original post I said pre-PS. 872487[/snapback] I know I've barked up this tree more than once before, but I think that while Heck Yes I did's distinction between modern and classic is oversimplified, it is none the less correct. And the proposition that if it aint brand new, it's solid gold classic is rediculous, as is the proposition that nothing post-crash can ever b classic. Anyhoo, I'm keeping my answers to "classic gaming" as is the rule of this thread set by H.Y.I.D, except for when a series spans both modern and classic systems and then I'll look at the whole picture (i.e.: my FFVII reference. Did anybody know what track I was talking about by the way?)

I know, except my main point of this thread was to see what other people thought of the old video game music. I know that as a general rule, the PS and DC are considered "classic," but I didn't want to include them in this thread (although I can't stop people from posting anything they want). On my original post I said pre-PS. 872487[/snapback] I know I've barked up this tree more than once before, but I think while Heck Yes I did's distinction between modern and classic is oversimplified, it is none the less correct. I'm keeping my answers to "classic gaming" as is the rule of this thread set by H.Y.I.D, except for when a series spans both modern and classic systems and then I'll look at the whole picture (i.e.: my FFVII reference. Did anybody know what track I was talking about by the way?)

yeah, mine stays in a tub when it's not being used, and it's still turning ugly. Well, good luck on getting those issues fixed. I didn't look at the controller issue yet, but I did look at the random reset issue and it doesn't look too hard either. Ây Neo Geo CD occasionally auto resets.. I think I may open it up and see if something similar will do the trick.

Quoting oneself is fun. Alright, I went to the video game museum (www.vgmuseum.com) and looked up pics of TG16 Adventure Island. It looks 16-bit. Now I definitely want it! But while I was there, I found a pict of TG16 Street Fighter 2 Championship Edition and was amazed to find it looked almost identical to the SNES SF2 Turbo.... granted, we're looking at still screens at 150x120 resolution (or something like it) on a monitor that's set to 1280x1024, which can obscure differences in detail level and it doesn't take into account speed of game, frame rate, animation frame count or sound quality differences, all of which I'm sure are superior on the SNES, nevertheless, considering the hardware differences between the two systems, for it to be able to even come this close is a huge surprise! The characters seem to be the same size at least. Altered Beast and Shinobi all look very impressive too. Go check-em out!

wow, I didn't know Adventure Island was also on TG16, but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Hudson soft was all over the TG16. I feel stupid for not thinking about it before. In any case, I am VERY curious to see what the TG16 version looks and sounds like. Anybody have any screenshots? TG16 is very inconsistent with it's graphics. Some games, like Legendary Axe look 16-bit and some games, like Bonk look 8-bit. I'm curious to know which way adventure island went.

I'm not sure, but I think one is just a rip-off of the other. I had always thought adventure island came first, as it is clearly the more successful of the two, but I could be wrong.

thanks guys! I went ahead and checked out both links and went with Dones'. That was the easiest repair ever! Four screws, a little wiggling and blowing (sounds dirty, but it's not) and bada-bing, we have a working dreamcast again. Thanks again!

Ohh, tough one but totally worth it. There's no friggin way I can rank these, and no friggin way I'm gonna be able to think of them all in one post, so expect me to post several times in this thread, just adding more on. I will try to break it down by level, but when I can't I'll just mention the game. Some of these will be ones most of you will agree with, and some of these will strike you as odd....but that's just me. Okay, first round: Plok, from the funny parody of 20's black and white movies to most importantly, the very 70's prog rock music...No joke, I've played this game just to hear that music. Act Raiser, the whole soundtrack is great, despite being totally derivative, and at times I suspect, outright plaegeristic (spelled wrong). Highlight is still easy to pick out: Northwall stage 1. I like the music in Ogre Battle when you're setting up your character (via the tarot) Afterthat, I don't remember it really standing out. Wolverine on the NES. I know, there's basically only 3 or 4 pieces of music in it and they're short (and on loop) But I just love them love them love them..especially the bonus level music. I would seriously like to cover that piece with guitars, bass, drums etc. Parts of Wizards and Warriors 3. Highlight: Knight's Guild. Metroid on the NES, particularly Lower Brinstar (Kraid's Lair) The entire Zelda Franchise including the CD-i games. Zelda 1 is the weakest link, but still awesome! The entire Final Fantasy series...period. Don't know if I'd call this the highlight per se, but the part that's jumping out in my mind right now is the selection from Final Fantasy VII where they're in the sewers (I know, it gets used a million times, but that's the instance that comes to mind first) you know, the jazzy one, the discordant one with the synth'd bass violin and the synth that is remeniscient of vibes.....starts with a simple tst tst tst tst of the symbols.....I love that piece. It's so simple, but it's just so moody, and jazzy. I love it! While I can only recall just one piece of music from it, I remember really liking silver surfer for the NES. SpiderMan/X-Men (SNES) Highlight is hard to say, but I'll default to Gambit's stage. Very progressive with a hint of funk...okay, when wah petals are involved it's more than a hint. Dick Tracy on the Genesis. Highlight: Stage 2. Shinobi 3 on Genesis...the whole shebang. Double Dragon 1 and 2, arcade and genesis (2 was never released for US genesis, but I've played the MD version via emulation.) Super Double Dragon. The highlights are the two tracks taken from the original double dragon and redone...beautifully. These three go without saying: Sonic CD (highlight it tough call, but I'm gonna go with stage 3..the water one...in the past) Castlevania 4, highlight is too tough to call, and Contra 3, again, too hard to call. Alien 3, SNES. Very moody. I suspect it's taken right from the movie but it's been so long since I've seen it that I can't say for sure. Wolfchild (SNES/Genesis) Both have totally different soundtracks and I don't know which I prefer, but the piece that sticks out the most from both versions ironically belongs to the same spot in both versions: The map screen. I know there's also a Sega CD wolfchild, but I only played it in a game store for a few minutes and didn't really get a feel for what the music is like, but if the SNES/Genny versions are any indication, I'll bet I'd be impressed. Echo the Dolphin: Sega CD. If you have even a passing appreciation for New Age, you'll love it. Cosmic Carnage: 32x. A little cheesy at times, but really cool for most of it. Highlights are either of the background music tracks for the fire lady (can't remember her name) and one of the two background music tracks for Cylic (Cylig perhaps? The Ant Man.) Anyway, I can't remember if it's for the light armor or the heavy armor, but one of them is very so so, and one of them is the highlight of the game. In fact, once, probably not more than 2 years ago, I dreamed I was at a computer store, and they were installing an OS on a computer, and the background graphics that were up while the progress bar was crawling were planets and stars...space scenes, anyway, the music in the background was that very track, and I hadn't played the game in over a year at the time I had that dream, and it had been almost 8yrs since I had played it with any degreee of frequency, so it's very odd that that track would just pop up in a dream that long after having been exposed to it, and in such a random way....needless to say, I played it later that same day. Anyway....I know that I've not even begun to scratch the surface, but here's what I've got for now. I hope I don't become too overbearing here, but this is an incredibly talkable subject to me. Apart from the Gospel and my family and friends, my two favorite discussion topics are music and video games...combine the two and I could talk for hours and hours and hours.

Nice job. VERY nice job. I always figured 8-2 was impossible. There is this one jump - you'll know it I'm sure. Man, even a Game Genie can't help you there. Adventure Island 2 though, much better balancing on the diffifculty. You know, it's finishable but you need to work at it a bit, build up your dinosaur powerups and weapons Super Adventure Island is the easiest of them all, but I play it most as it still has one the best sound tracks ever created 997234[/snapback] I hear you there. Super Adventure Island really does have one of the best soundtracks ever. I wouldn't mind getting it again just for that reason. That and if you're used to the 8-bit version, then the graphics still look good. (It's a really good game too!)

You know, what immediately struck me the first time I played the N64 version is how it actually felt slower moving to me. Be it entirely perception, entirely fact, or a combination thereof, the SNES version seemed to move sooo much faster. Now, granted, the SNES version is only using mode 7, while the N64 version is all polygons, (except for character sprites) but still, we're also talking about a 64-bit RISC system running at 90(?) MHz, versus a 16-bit CISC (?) system running at 3.5MHz. The advance in hardware should be more than capable of handling that polygon count faster than the older hardware should be able to do even simple mode 7, but it sure doesn't seem that way when you're playing it. It seems pretty sluggish on the 64. Has anyone else noticed that?

They're all great, but I've got to go with my heart on this one and vote for the original.

Okay, I thought I had this figured out, and now a new x-factor has been introduced: My dreamcast became more and more intermittent with reading game discs and eventually got to the part where it totally stopped reading game discs and eventually any disc altogether. This is the second dreamcast I had that did this. I got rid of the first one assuming the problem had to do with the optical assembly, and originally assumed that was the case here. But one day I busted it out just on the chance that it would work, and it didn't, so out of desparation I tried the insane, pressing down on the lid, and lo and behold, that did the trick. So I assumed the problem is in the latch, but no prob so long as all it takes to make it work is to set a heavy book on it. Well, I busted it out again today, and this time the trick didn't work no matter how hard I pressed with my own hands. BUT, another different trick worked this time. If I pressed the open button and let the door come up only 1/8"-1/4" it read. If the door opened more than that, or closed more than that, then the disc would stop reading and the dreamcast'd go back to it's main menu. I used scotch tape to hold it in place and had no read errors or load errors whatsoever, so the optic assembly and the processing/rendering parts of the dreamcast are fine. I had originally suspected the latch, but the latch doesn't even enter into it when the door's open. I tried to mess with it with the door all the way open and no diff. The only two things I can assume are either a) there's a separate switch inside the machine that can tell when the door is open or closed based on the back half of the door and the plastic pieces that go into the machine when the door closes, or b) the latch itself at the front of the system is out of spec and thinks it's open when it's closed and vice versa. But that makes less sense, as when the door opens beyond a point it fails, and if it closes beyond a point it fails...and it was the exact oposite problem before. Before it wasn't closing tight enough, now it wont work if you close it. Can anybody help me? I haven't taken it apart yet so I haven't actually seen inside. Does anybody have any experience with this? Any help would be awesome! Thanks alot!