doubledown

@tripletopper this is what...your 500th post (give or take), detailing your propensity to ambidextrous, and/or other overly complicated controllers. Please give it a rest.

Out of curiosity...how many people are "interested" in my ColecoVision: Mouse Trap Edition - VVG Experience Controller (full details HERE) ...at some point here in the not too far off future (some couple of months from now lets say)? I ask because I know there is 1 person for sure looking for one, and I had previously been contacted by one other person about it too. The biggest problem with this controller...is the fact that parts are purchased from so many vendors for this one, that if I order the parts for only 1 controller...that 1 buyer gets hit with the burnt of that extra cost. But if parts are being ordered to build more than 1, the shipping costs get divided up, and a few of the items can get a little bit of price discounting, which helps bring down the price to each buyer. When I looked into the pricing a little while back, it looked like this for quantities: 1) - $590.00 2) - $515.00 3) - $490.00 4) - $455.00 5+) - no more big savings after this, until we'd get to something like quantities of 25-50...which I don't think is really probable. So you can see, there is a $135 (per controller) price difference, from when 1 is bought & built, versus when 4 are being bought and built simultaneously. Granted this concept of "saving on shipping" and quantity discounting, can/does apply to any of the controllers I build...but again this particular controller, is supplied from so many vendors...that it makes a huge difference. So I'm just trying to gauge the interest in this particular controller right this moment. So looking at the possible prices above, please let me know if you have any interest in getting one of these. Again, not right this second...in a few months or so, whereas some sort of deposit would be due with intent, then the remainder and shipping would be due when ready to ship. Let me know either via PM, and/or response here. Thanks.

You would think with only 3 "requirements"...19", curved, s-video...it wouldn't be so hard, but of the 10-20 or so that I've found that fit this bill, its always is a problem with their ridiculous asking price, and/or distance. I can definitely do minor repairs for screen adjustments (image rotated slightly, weird color blur in the corner), so I'm not too worried about that minor little stuff. I'll get one eventually...I'm sure.

I'm not saying that obviously; lots of modern game consoles all have USB controller ports...and thus USB based controllers should still exist, specifically made for those game consoles. 😁 I just know that in the world of "small-run" made, custom products, the fewer available options/revisions/versions...the more reasonable it can all be for those buying, and the less investment/inventory burden on the person(s) responsible. Plus I would assume that people who play games in emulation (for some unknown reason)...might already have these adapters, as they have been playing games in emulation, (for some unknown reason)...for some time now. Additionally what's less expensive to the end user (assuming price is a concern), 2 separate controllers (1 DB9 version, and 1 USB version), or 1 controller and 1 adapter (for a person who would want both options)? I think I saw that the 2600-dapter D9 is like $35...will the Opcode controller be this price or less...or more expensive? Of course I'm sure that there are people who play games exclusively in emulation (for some unknown reason)...obviously they would be the target market for only a USB version. I realize that there are 2 sides to every coin (plus a round, sometimes octagon edge), but as I will never be a person who plays games in emulation (other than occasional arcade games, due to the logistics of owning 100+ physical arcade cabinets), I have no interest in such things. Hardware...hardware...hardware!!! All that said...I have no idea what the potential market is for any version, of any controller, made for vintage hardware. Can 100, 1000, 10000, 1000000 of these controllers be sold...only time will tell.

The question would be, is it worth it for Opcode to create a USB version...when there are seemingly 2 widely available "DB-9 vintage controller" to USB adapters on the market?

I don't think I've ever seen a ColecoVision with USB controller ports!!! 😇 The simpler way...for Opcode (to not have to offer/manufacturer/stock 2 different PCB and/or cabled variants), would be for the end user to get a 2600-dapter, assuming it would work with this potentially "new" 4 button control scheme, and you're looking to use it for emulation vs. real hardware...presumably. Obviously not as ideal as 2 joysticks, but it was the functional concept for twin-stick vintage games on the retro compilations collections on the SNES and PS1...and works as a decent option. Alternatively, I would be more than happy to offer compatible Twin-Stick arcade controllers, if your thumbs can't take the heat...so don't worry about that! 😁

That was my assumption!

I completely agree. If twin stick games were developed for the ColecoVision with this controller in mind, it really shouldn't be issue as the "joystick" (left control), can only ever press a maximum of 2 switches at a time (any diagonal) (which obviously already works), then the same for the 2nd joystick (diamond array of 4 buttons, ala SNES) (right control), which also would only ever see a maximum of 2 switches at a time. So if the 4 buttons can truly be read independently, it should work...then we can get ports of Robotron: 2084, Space Dungeon, Black Widow, Cloak & Dagger, Crazy Climber...among others. Bring on the twin-stick games!

Looking at your link that TV appears to be a flat tube, not curved as I am looking for, but I did look through that site, and like you said its hard to tell...from the listings. Nobody lists any specifics...as most of the stuff on letgo appears to be being sold for "cheap" so they apparently can't be bothered typing in any info. Or nobody knows that TVs are different, and have different features. It's the same problem with people selling on ebay. There are tons of filters for features & options in Electronics/TVs on ebay, but nobody selects anything so you literally have to look at every listing (to not miss something), and even then...hope that one, of the 1 or 2 pictures in the listing, actually shows the back of the TV where the jacks are, to see if it has S-Video and/or Component Video inputs or not. Of course any of the few listings with proper details, and/or a good bunch of pictures, are of course the ones where the seller needs/wants $300-$500 for this "magic" tv that they are selling. I'll keep up with the hunt...and I'm sure I'll find something eventually. Long live the "419"

Good to see some progress happening...and "somebody" has very clean hands! 😉 Out of curiosity, have you determined yet, how you are doing the "contacts" for the directions and the buttons? PCB mount tactile switches, rubber booted carbon-dot type over conductive pads, something else? Just interested in what kind of "feel" they will have, as a comparison to an existing controller we may be familiar with.

So yes, as the title states I am looking for a good/working 19" CRT TV or Monitor...but I have some requirements, so simply any old 19" CRT won't do. First and foremost, I am specifically looking for a 19" screen...20" can also work, but no 24", no 27" and so on, and so forth. Secondly, I am looking for a bi-directional curved screen, meaning that it's curved vertical and horizontally...which automatically eliminates all Trinitrons (flat vertically), FD Trinitrons / WEGAs (flat vertically and horizontally), and any other brands' models using names like TruFlat, X-Flat...or the likes. Thirdly it has to have at least 1 S-VHS (S-Video, Y/C) input. *For added wish-list features, I would love it, if it also had: - at least 1 set of component video inputs, (which are not shared with the S-VHS input) - external speaker output terminals (usually the little black and red spring loaded terminals, whereas the audio amplifier is built into the TV to power external speakers) - variable and/or fixed audio output jacks (usually 1 or more set(s) of red/white RCA/phono jacks for connecting to an external audio amplifier) - included/functioning/working remote control (again a bonus...no biggie) And lastly, and very importantly, not 1000 miles away from Toledo, OH, 43612 USA. Realistically I would probably be willing to travel say 100-120ish miles each way for pick up, or if you have such an item, and are extremely confident and willing to ship the TV/monitor...we can discuss. I've been on the hunt on ebay and Craigslist for a while now, but any of the few that I've found that fit the bill with my "minimum requirements", and/or ones that also have some of my "wish-list items", either end up being 500+ miles away and they're not willing to ship (which I don't blame them), or they are listed as "GREAT FOR RETRO GAMING" and have prices of $300+ dollars. Don't get me wrong I'm willing to pay for such an item, but I can't justify anything near $300+ for what I'm looking for. Additionally the "condition" of the TV's cosmetic housing is not that important to me. So if you have one that fits the bill, but has a crack in the plastic, or a couple of screw holes where an antenna was mounted directly to the top of it...so long as it doesn't affect the function of the device...no big deal. So if you think you got something that matches the description of what I'm looking for, let me know. If you're not sure about all of it's features/options, if you can let me know the make/model...most of the info can be found online, whereas I would be able to look it up, to see if it would suit my needs or not. Please...help me, help you, get this old 19" CRT out of your way! Thanks in advance.

Possibly/probably (not that I have a link to), but I just know it as: Purple button - wires 1, 2, 4 Blue button - wires 1, 3, 4 So, for example, the purple button needs connection to each of those wires (1, 2, 4), through a diode each, on one side of the switch (usually NO), and wire 5 as the "common" on the other side (normally COM). As a reference (from your previously posted schematic with the diodes show backwards), Keypad 1 needs connection to wire 4, through a diode on one side of the switch, and wire 5 as the "common" on the other side...same concept as all of the other 12 keypad buttons, as the extra 2 S.A. buttons are basically wired as the 13th and 14th keypad buttons.

Personally I'm all for, some "new blood" in the realm of the ColecoVision, and look forward to the possibility of games with more than 2 truly independent fire buttons. First off consider the 7 existing S.A. compatible games: Super Action Baseball, Football, Soccer...all need the Speed Roller additionally, so without that, 4 buttons or not, they're still not playable (and honestly I could care less) Spy Hunter and Star Trek: S.O.S., both have a "standard controller" scheme which allows for play with 2 buttons + keypad buttons (granted not as nice...with the membrane keypad on stock hand controllers) Front Line has 2 different homebrew ports that allow for game-play with a hand controller, wherein you shoot the direction in which you are running. And unless someone is going to make a hack of this game that allows for a rotary controller (that I would be happy to build), like that which was used in the arcade game...it will never be "arcade accurate" anyways. Which leaves Rocky...as the only game, that needs 4 S.A. buttons, but not the Speed Roller. Is anybody playing this? Just think...with 4 separate buttons, a port of Vanguard could be programmed which allows for arcade accurate firing, and a hack of Tutankham could be created where say the "left" (of 4 buttons in the diamond shape) shoots left, the "right" shoots right, and either (or both) of the top and/or bottom buttons could be the Flash Bomb button. Better than the original whereas you could accidentally waste a Flash Bomb if you press the opposite firing button, before you completely let go of the first. Without having any idea how you plan to implement 4 independent buttons, I have no real knowledge, but I would have to assume that with something as simple as a switch possibly, it could be swap-able from one "scheme" to another...but like everything else feature related, would add time to engineering, and in the end cost...and everybody already complains about things being too expensive in the first place. Additionally if a switch was do-able to change "schemes" let's see if we can all agree on which of the 4 buttons should be which of the the 4 S.A. buttons...that works perfectly for all 4 existing games. 😁 I think we all know how "decision by committee" usually works out. ...blah...blah...blah...my personal opinion...no offense intended...blah...blah...blah (standard boiler-plate here).

I've never hand wired an entire diode array before. When I build a controller that includes a full keypad, or more than only 3 or 4 keypad inputs...I just install a donor controller PCB to wire to. If a particular controller only has, for example, the 1, 2, and # buttons, then I will just hand wire in the few diodes, and forgo the donor PCB. Additionally with a couple more wires, and a few more diodes, you can add the Purple & Blue Super Action buttons to controller too if you want.

If they're molded, more colors = more money...just a thought. And you're not thinking of Spy Hunter & Star Trek: S.O.S.

Ok, so I just tested my Roller Controller, and Expansion Module #2 with my Phoenix: With Expansion Module #2: I played Turbo - from the SD card...and I saw no issues. It played just fine, and just as it should. I played Destructor - from the SD card...and I saw no issues. It played just fine, and just as it should. With Roller Controller: In Joystick Mode - in the SD card menu, when using controller 1's joystick to navigate through the SD card menu...I would press down once, and that moved me down 1 game in the list. But then maybe the next time I press down once...it jumped down 3 lines. Then 1 line, 1 line, then 3 lines again, so on, and so forth. ...but when in Roller Mode - this line-jumping phenomenon does not happen...press down once on the controller's joystick, and I move down 1 game in the list, repeatably. Playing Centipede from SD card - in Joystick Mode...I saw no issues. It played just fine, and just as it should. Playing Armageddon from SD card - in Roller Mode...my on-screen cursor would, every so often...just jump across the screen. Playing Slither from SD card - in Roller Mode...my on-screen character would, every so often...just jump across the screen. Also remember...I'm wasn't saying this Pin 9 issue I'm looking at is causing "jumping" with a non-joystick controller...I'm seeing the problem of the Phoenix console flat out locking up and emitting a solid steady tone...to where it has to be reset. Not to say they're not related, but I didn't know anything about this jumping until now...as I hadn't used any type of specialty controller with my Phonenix until tonight.

I believe it is having "something, anything" (a conductor/wire acting as an antenna) connected to pin 9 and nothing else that is a definite problem. To make this clear, and Ed can verify his products better than I, but any "Edladdin" device, meaning a controller built by anybody with one of his boards...that has the 9th wire in the cable, connected at the socket end (at the console), this causes the problem, acting as an antenna or something (lack of better terminology). While his PCB has connection points for all 9 wires...7 & 9 have no traces to anything on his board...simply a landing point via solder pad and a thru-hole solder point. So it's not that his board is any sort of problem, its if the cable being used has wire/socket #9 connected at the connector. Like I said, I build my own cables from bulk cable purchased, and then all of the end pieces with crimp on sockets...so I can simply choose to no longer crimp a socket on the white wire (#9), and anybody who has purchased a controller from me, who has experienced issues if used on their Phoenix, can open the hood, and cut the socket off...and it should take care of the problem. Again this is all early in the testing phases...but it's all pretty repeatable/predictable with the testing I did last night.

I have not yet tested a Roller Controller, S.A.C. or EM#2 on my Phoneix. Maybe I'll try to test them this weekend to see what I find out with my unit. As of now the issue I'm seeing is apparently something transient getting picked up on controller port pin 9, when a length of wire is connected to it, and said length of wire is seemingly acting as an antenna.

You'd probably want to send it to the guy I sold this one to...assuming you could pry it away from his hands! 😁 With that said, and in all seriousness, I do plan to build/make/offer more of these (plus 1 or 2 more variants), but currently I'm in the middle of a few other builds right now, and I'm not actively taking orders. When I get freed up, I will be posting a pre-order thread regarding the availability of any of the models/editions that I've made thus far. I was planning on doing this back in late January, early Febuary, but I got a little backed up...then the pandemic...and life got in the way.

Thanks for the info.

So just to clarify...with pins 7 & 9 socketed & fully populated at the cable connector, jumper them together (shorting them together) inside/at the controller, so that when plugged into the Phoenix console it's controller port pins 7 & 9 would be connected via a 20' loop of wire (in the case of a 10' cordset)? Would this cause any issue if said controller was then used on an actual ColecoVision or ADAM? What if this controller was then used on an Atari 2600...where pin #7 is +5V? Is this a more robust/bulletproof option than simply just not installing a socket/wire at pin 9?

Thank you sir for the kind words. I think sometimes I see joysticks in my sleep!

So I think I've pretty much kept up with this thread...but I can guarantee that I probably haven't read every post, and if info has been discussed/discovered/announced elsewhere (other sites/forums)...I don't know anything about those so forgive me if this has been solved, and I missed it. My question is concerning games freezing and/or console lock-up, seemingly when using a SAC or an Edladdin based controller with the Phoenix. By Edladdin based controllers, I mean any ColecoVision controllers Ed has built, or those built by others (myself included) using his Easy CV I/O Board + Keypad. I have in the past, personally experienced game/console lock-up, when playing Pac-Man Collection off of my SD card, and Gauntlet played via cartridge. Recently when I built one of my new controllers whereas I used an original Coleco Hand Controller PCB donor for the wiring (not an Edladdin PCB), I assumed I wouldn't have any issues playing these games...but they locked up too. So then I grabbed an actual Hand Controller and it played fine. Fast forward to today and I wanted to try something to check this out more, and here is what I found. Coleco Hand Controllers - factory controller cable's are 7 conductors and the end is pinned at 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 (not pinned at 7 or 9) Coleco S.A.C. - factory controller cables are 9 conductors and the end is pinned at 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 When I've built controllers using Ed's PCB, I fully populated the connector, and soldered wires to each of the 9 pads on the PCB (as the instructions tell you to do). Upon further examination (and Ed can verify this) it appears that contacts #7 & #9 on Ed's PCB aren't connected to anything, I assume they're just there as a landing point so that the wires're aren't loose; I never really looked at this before today. When I build a custom controller using a Coleco Hand Controller PCB, and a 9-conductor cable that I buy in bulk, I only solder 7 wires to the PCB, 1-Brown, 2-Red, 3-Orange, 4-Yellow, 5-Green, 6-Blue, 8-Grey, but I crimp sockets on all 9 wires when I assemble the cable end. I like to leave the extra conductors in the cable end so that if there is a failure with 1 or 2 other conductors...the cable can still be salvaged, and I crimp the sockets on and insert them into spots #7 & #9 so they're not simply loose in the hood. Then in the controller itself, I stagger the cut length of these 2 wires (black and white), and heat shrink them so they can't contact each other, or short out on anything else. So in a test, literally 15 minutes ago, here is what I did, and what happened with 2 of my custom controllers using a Coleco Hand Controller PCB: So both were wired/socket at all 9 positions in the cable end, but 7-black, and 9-white were not connected to anything inside the controller...so basically all the console could have seen/detected on these 2 pins is 10' of wire length on each...connected to nothing, not even each other. When I tried Pac-Man Collection off of my SD card...I could get the game/console to freeze/lock-up/emit solid tone, within about 5-6 seconds once I started an actual game of Pac-Man with either controller. I then opened both of their hoods, pulled out the sockets/wires from position 7-black and 9-white, and tried again...and now I cannot get it to lock up. Obviously minimal testing done...but these results lead me to this conclusion: if anything (even just a length of wire) is connected to pins #7 and/or #9, this feezing/lock-up, can/may occur. I haven't yet tested just removing one of these at a time 7 or 9, I've done both each time...but I can/will try re-inserting one of them, and leaving the other out to see the results. (by-the-by...I've only ever noticed this with modern homebrew games...never with any original games) Please don't get me wrong, I'm not carving this in stone, and/or saying this is the gospel...this is just what I've seen with about 10-15 minutes worth of testing. So with all that said...am I insane, or has this issue (which when searching through this topic there are several posts discussing exactly this) been solved and I just don't know about it? FYI, here are screenshots of my firmware/cores to verify that I'm using the latest/greatest: I'd appreciate any info/comments/thoughts about this. Has this been fixed...have/are others also experiencing this issue...and the likes. **UPDATE** So I just did some more testing...and I can attribute the issue to pin #9 specifically. So assuming automatically that pins 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 are wired at both the connector end, and internally to a PCB for controls, then: 7 & 9 - sockets are present at the cable end - lock up will occur playing Pac-Man Collection from my SD card only 9 - socket is present at the cable end (7 was removed) - lock up will occur playing Pac-Man Collection from my SD card only 7 - socket is present at the cable end (9 was removed) - lock up does not occur playing Pac-Man Collection from my SD card neither 7 or 9 - sockets not present at the cable end - lock up does not occur playing Pac-Man Collection from my SD card

I don't remember what my cost was, or how much time I had engineering, machining, assembling and wiring it, but it was sold for something near $300. Something similar could obviously be made smaller and/or "cheaper" I'm sure...but I'm not interested in "cheap." There's enough "cheap" in the world already...I wanted something truly arcade quality, controls that were "Jaguar era-correct"...and built to last say 30-40 years. 😁

I like to think I have some idea what I'm doing! 😋