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doubledown

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Posts posted by doubledown

  2. Posted

    I'm looking for some help/info from the 2600 experts out there, who are more familiar with the vast 2600 game library than I.  

     

    So I'm working on a new controller for a 2600 arcade port.  As necessary for arcade accuracy, and working within the constraints of the port's programming, the controller will only have the following controls:

     

    Left Hand

     

    * 2-Way Horizontal Joystick - wired as Atari joystick left/right

     

    Right Hand

     

    * Button #1 - wired as Atari joystick down

    * Button #2 - wired as Atari fire button

     

    Now I'm already planning on installing a small ancillary, (ON)-NONE-(ON) paddle switch, wired as Atari joystick up/down, for multi-cart menu navigation and the likes (as the the actual joystick is only a 2-way)...but as a small switch, it won't be useful for in-game play.  Now this controller will be 100% hardware/arcade accurate for the port it's being built for, and with a 2-way horizontal joystick and a fire button...will also work with lots of other games, such as Galaxian, Demon Attack, Space Invaders...and I'm sure loads of others. 

     

    But here's my question...are there any games, that similar to this one, can make use of only a 2-way left/right joystick for movement, the fire button as an input (or not)...but instead of the joystick down input (as Button #1 will be wired to), makes use of joystick up as an additional input?  The reason I ask, is that if there are some games that can make use of only a 2-way joystick, a fire button, and a 2nd button wired to the joystick up (instead of down)...then I can also install an additional ancillary ON-ON rocker switch, to change Button #1's wiring to be either joystick down, or joystick up...making it compatible with even more games.  But, if no such games exist, then I have no reason to add the extra switch.  Any help or info from the experts is greatly appreciated, and I'll thank you all in advance for your help.  

  3. Posted

    Control-wise...any game that needs the EM#2, Roller Controller, or a SAC won't work with it.  Obviously any game with in-game keypad presses can be annoying (if allowable via the console's keypad), like Dam Busters, Ken Uston's BlackJack & Poker, War Games (and others) unless you're within 18" of the console.  I'm not sure if there are any games that flat-out won't work on it.  

     

    A real ColecoVision (and/or ADAM) console needs +12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC, so if there is a Telegames power supply that outputs both +12VDC, and +5VDC...it would be missing the -5VDC, and wouldn't work for a ColecoVision.

  5. Posted

    22 hours ago, Atarian7 said:

    I don't see how people can play with the stick on the left and buttons on the right.

     

    iPAR4e.jpg

     

    ...well for me, I grew up playing a lot of Galaga at my local Pizza Hut, and that's the only choice (as was the case for many arcade cabinets).  But as I also grew up with a 2600, if I'm playing with any handheld joystick (versus a lap-top or table-top "arcade" stick), something akin to a CX-40, then I hold the base with my left hand, and manipulate the joystick with my right.  You gotta work with the tools that you're given!  😄

    • Like 1

  6. Posted

    The single bullet/missile/shot on the screen limit, was absolutely part of the challenge of the old games that used it.  It's especially challenging when playing on an original arcade cabinet with a vertical monitor, with a much taller field of play in the Y-axis, than that offered by your home television set oriented horizontally.  When you missed every possible enemy...it would seem like forever before you could shoot again.  If you could freely rapid fire at those slow moving aliens...the game would be child-like simplistic/easy, and not worth playing.  The skill to develop, is simply not to miss your targets.  

    • Like 1

  9. Posted

    There is no 1 joystick to rule them all.  There were/are an incredible amount of variation in the style/type/feel of joysticks made over the years.  Some people can't tell the difference from one to another, and no one feels any better/worse to them, and there are the die-hards who will only play "game x" with this 1 particular joystick.  Some hate the sound of micro-switches...and there are those who can't play without the clicking...because if they don't hear the audible clicking, they assume the joystick didn't make the direction properly.  As others have said, once the great age of arcade video games was in full swing in the really early 80s, leaf-switch joysticks (mostly WICOs, and the Midway/PAC-MAN sticks), were the norm here in the West.  Most Japanese publishers back in the day however, used micro-switch joysticks, including all of Nintendo's games (Donkey Kong, Jr., 3, Popeye...etc.), as well as those published by Taito in Japan.  The "modern" joysticks used in home-use "arcade sticks" for modern consoles, as well as those used in the home-use "arcade cabinets," are modern Japanese style joysticks, like those used in modern arcade fighting games like Tekken and others.  Most of them are cheap Chinese knock-offs of the true Japanese sticks made by Sanwa and Seimitsu, but they are all clicky, they are pretty short, and they require a very light force to actuate.  If you're a fan or early to mid 80s Western published arcade cabinets, and their joysticks...none of these modern Japanese style of sticks will feel great to you, granted they will all "function."  Some will poo-poo the "constant" maintenance of leaf-switch joysticks, like the WICOs (mainly the micro-switch fanboys), while I prefer them, especially when era appropriate.  There were also optical and inductive joysticks made back in the day, which offered the sweet sweet silence of a leaf-switch joystick, but with none of the leaf-switch maintenance.  Then regarding the "fluid" movement of the joystick, it depends on the joystick's "restriction", which can be done a couple of different ways.  But basically is the shaft limiting shape that allows for either circular, octagonal, or square 8-way movements, or diamond or clover 4-way movements...plus 2-way and 1-way alternatives.  Most modern sticks have a square or octagonal restrictor...which are perfect for fighting games, but if you're playing something like Robotron: 2084 or Time Pilot...where you're constantly moving the joystick around it's restrictor's perimeter, you want one with a round restrictor...so there are no "felt" directions/stops.  

  10. Posted

    Been a while...but I've been crazy busy at work...now that's starting to settle a bit...so hooray for me, I can get back to my real passion...the world's greatest ColecoVision controllers!

     

    Previously I've made a few controllers with lighted buttons, and to power said lighted buttons, I've installed a small panel mount (4) AA battery pack.  Obviously at some point these batteries can run out, but as the power is only for the "flashiness" of the illuminated buttons, not the actual function of the joystick or buttons...if the batteries die, the controller is still usable.  It's just not as "flashy."   

     

    But for this optical joystick I'll be using for Berzerk, and a few other secret joystick projects upcoming, I'll need power, to power the joysticks.  So if I use batteries only, when the batteries run low/die...the controller itself will be wholly unusable until the batteries are recharged or replaced (just like the EM#2).  Based on current draw calculations, (4) AA batteries should power the joystick for something in the neighborhood of 8 - 12 hours...an actual time check will be done here hopefully soon.  So I'm considering all of my "power" options for these upcoming controllers, and I'm looking for input for any of the following ideas, and/or any ideas that maybe I haven't considered.  Keep in mind, each option to follow is possible as a stand-alone option, or in conjunction with any/all of the other options.  More options = more cost...however.  

     

    Option the 1st: Batteries - (4) AA battery pack, can use alkalines/lithiums, or rechargeables, should offer somewhere between 8 - 12 hours of play time

     

    Option the 2nd: Coleco Roller Controller power cable (only for ColecoVision/ADAM use) - salvage the in-line power cable from a Coleco Roller Controller, so that it can be directly plugged in series with a ColecoVision/ADAM and it's mating power supply

     

    Option the 3rd: PS/2 power cable (only for Phoenix use) - wire a PS/2 port, to allow it to be plugged into the front PS/2 port on a CollectorVision Phoenix

     

    Option the 4th: DB25 power cable (only for Phoenix use) - wire a DB25 port (or similar with conversion cable), to allow it to be plugged in the the rear DB25 port on a CollectorVision Phoenix

     

    Option the 5th: USB power cable, wire a USB port, which would allow it to be powered by a USB power supply (phone charger or similar), or directly from a PC, especially useful if using the controller with a 9-pin to USB controller adapter for PC emulator use

     

    Option the 6th: DC power cable, wire a barrel jack, which would allow it to be powered by an external DC power supply

     

    ** Additionally, for "ATARI" compatibility, there will be a switch-a-roo, to allow the joystick to pull power from Pin #7 (5V) on the ATARI 2600/8-Bits/7800 consoles and computers.  Obviously this is technically unnecessary with some of the other power options...but when playing on an ATARI, why power it with another power source, when the console/computer can power it directly, and it only adds a switch and a little bit of extra wiring.

     

    So, with all that...any thoughts, questions, comments, concerns, adulation?

  11. Posted

    I'll play devil's advocate, to maybe help better vocalize the "issues" others have stated.  

     

    So Cote Gamers...is advertising/offering/selling a club membership...which includes all sorts of club things...including a magazine, membership card, and the likes.  Then there is the additional mention of an "exclusive free game"...if a "club member" owns 3 of their other games.  

     

    What a perspective game collectors reads is...to get this "exclusive game" that I want to own (and I could care less about the "club items," magazine, membership card and the likes), I have to pay 75€ (40€ subscription + 30€ shipping + 5€ covering paypal transaction fees)...plus own 3 other Cote Gamers games...for this one "exclusive game."  

     

     

     

    So Cote Gamers is selling a "club" and offering a free game to members with 3 other games...but what buyers are looking at, is they have to pay for this club (that maybe they don't care about), plus own 3 other games...just to have a chance to own this one other exclusive game.  

     

    As a person who no longer cares about collectible memorabilia, magazines, or trinkets...that's how I see it.  Now again, I understand that you are selling a club, and the purpose of the club, is the memorabilia, and the magazine, and the trinkets...but I'm sure there are others like me...who are interested in games...and not the collectibles.  

     

    Please note, I'm not angry, or upset about what you are doing, or offering...I'm just trying to help all those understand, why some may be upset with this, as previously posted.  

    • Like 1

  14. Posted

    @OriginalJohn, allow me to present to you, 1 Schrute Buck:

     

    3B6vhR.jpg

     

    ...for your correct answer of Berzerk.

     

    So here is what an original Berzerk joystick assembly looks like:

     

    ZGuX8I.jpg

     

    In addition to its enormous black bat handle, one other very unique feature of this joystick, was the switches used...in that there weren't any...at least not mechanically.  No leaf-switches, and no micro-switches to be found...it used optics instead...a rather radical ideal at the time.  So no leaf switches who's contacts could get corroded and/or who's leafs could get bent out of tolerance, and no micro-switches with their incessant "clicking"... simply the power and magic, of light (and electronics).  Unfortunately for Stern...it was a major failure.  I don't know the full details behind the failure (mechanical/electrical, or what-have-you), but they supposedly lost a ton of cabinet/game orders (4000+) due to the news of their joystick failures getting out.  So they re-grouped, and sent out WICO 8-way leaf-switch replacement joysticks to owners who wanted to swap out their problematic originals...and they then began shipping new units with the WICOs.  Their cocktail cabinets, due to their much smaller size, were all shipped with WICOs as factory new.  So of the 37,000 or so Berzerk upright cabinets sold...some unknown number of them were originally shipped with this optical behemoth as factory standard, and some greatly fewer number of those, in functional condition, still exist to this day.  

     

    13 hours ago, Pixelboy said:

    ... or Frenzy.  :)  Although in both cases, the cabinets I see of those games on YouTube have "regular" arcade joysticks, so no wonder it's hard to associate that large joystick to anything.

     

    Due to the failure of the optical joysticks installed into their Berzerk cabinets, Stern once again simply opted to install a WICO into their sequel, Frenzy.  But, there were recorded, approximately 500 Frenzy conversion kits sold to Berzerk cabinet owners, as an upgrade...and some of those owners possibly still had their original optical bat handle joysticks functionally in-tact...so technically Frenzy is theoretically also correct.  

     

    This does not mean the optical joystick doesn't work...it simply means the Stern optical joystick was highly prone to failures.  Midway's Gorf used an optical pistol grip joystick on their upright cabinets...and they had no problems.  Additionally WICO and HAPP, back in the 80s - 90s also made optical joysticks...all of which are long out of production, highly sought after by collectors, and all fetch a pretty high price in the used and NOS markets.  So why does any of this matter...here's why:

     

    1C8oqb.jpg

     

    Very recently, Buttercade developed and released an optical joystick...which is a conversion they perform to an iL EuroJoystick 2.  Wherein, they remove the factory micro-switches and switch actuator, and install their custom designed optical PCB...creating a new optical joystick.  As a fan of all hardware, I got one to check it out, then I was trying to figure out what to do with it.  Technically, it can be used with any 8-way game, but as Berzerk (and technically/theoretically Frenzy) are arcade accurate with an 8-way optical joystick, I set out to transform the iL/Buttercade joystick, into a clone of the original Stern optical joystick by replacing the "small" molded bat knob shaft, with an iL threaded shaft...and sourcing an arcade accurate sized "large" bat knob.  I asked the guys over at the KLOV arcade forums for dimensions of the original Berzerk bat handles, and after I got a few responses...I set sail to the internet to see what I could find.  It seriously took me about 3 minutes to find a perfect replacement...made by Carl Lane MFG., and it could very well be the same exact ones used by Stern back 1980.  So after I got the new bat handle, I spent a little bit of time machining it to mate it to the iL threaded shaft...and now I have an arcade accurate Berzerk joystick...that is truly optical...as was the original.  

     

    Currently a ColecoVision port of Berzerk does not yet exist, but one is in the works...and a port of Frenzy already does exist.  Plus there are currently multiple ports of Berzerk and/or Frenzy for the 2600 and 7800, and clones like K-razy Shoot-Out for the 8-bits...to justify building this controller, as an arcade accurate controller for all of these games, across all of these systems.  So that's what I'm working on next/now.  

    • Like 2

  17. Posted

    On 2/23/2021 at 2:36 AM, scotty said:

    I am working on a project where I am adding a Taito Space Invaders CPO, Joystick and fire button to the front of a control panel. as I played a LOT of it as a kid.  I know the ball was very small.    Do you happen to know what size it was?  30 seems to be the smallest I can find anywhere, but that is only 5mm less than the standard 35, and I want to say it was smaller.  Any idea??  ALso, and idea on where I can find the ball top?

     

    The original Taito cocktail joystick knob is 25mm (1 inch).

  20. Posted

    33 minutes ago, koolmoecraig said:

    Please tell me you will be selling these.

    They can be sold...but understand that a perfect clone of this one...will be very expensive, due to the the custom joystick (with all of it's parts, and machining/assembly time), and the aluminum C-channel, with it's machining time, and all of the extra machining time and extra wiring required for the additional side flipper buttons, plus the original arcade style leaf-switch push-buttons.  I haven't priced it out at all yet, but an exact clone of this one, as a: Pac-Man Edition DX - VVG Experience Controller...would probably end up somewhere in the $550 range.  Simply a look-a-like controller, that doesn't have the custom joystick, doesn't have the aluminum C-channel necessary for the hidden joystick fasteners, and doesn't have the side flipper buttons...could be closer to $225.  It just depends on what somebody wants.  I built this one to replicate the look of the original arcade cabinet control panel (as much as possible)...and the feel of the original control hardware (as much as possible)...for me, the way I wanted it. 

     

    26 minutes ago, koolmoecraig said:

    One suggestion - "Nudge"  buttons for Baby Pac-Man on the 7800.  While playing the pinball portion, nudging is important for the game play.  It's mapped to up and down on the joystick.  Since you have the flipper buttons on the sides it would be sweet to have buttons where your thumbs rest so you could "nudge" the game(actually it looks like pointer finger buttons might be batter).  Otherwise you have to reach to the joystick to do it which isn't ideal.

    I thought about "bump" buttons...but couldn't come up with a good way to do it.  If I'm not mistaken, the 7800 port allows you to bump the playfield left, right, and up...I'm not sure if you can diagonally bump up/left or up/right...but I don't think so (I think I tried that), I think its just the 3 directions.  I don't think you can bump down...as that would have you behind the machine bumping it from the back (if at the real arcade cabinet), and down on the joystick is the "launch" button.  I wasn't sure where I would place 3 different "bump" buttons that would make sense, and would offer ease of use during game-play, so I just figured to keep that control done via the joystick...unless somebody has a better idea.  

  22. Posted

    Now, the final details of my PAC-MAN build...for those interested in such things.  

     

    Chapter 3 - "Built to last"

     

    So I've built plenty of controllers using these Hammond enclosures, and while I do in fact like them very much...I simply don't find their overall assembly very sturdy or robust, but I'm a perfectionist, and I over-build everything.  So after I swap out the stock #6 sheet metal assembly screws, with #8 machine screws (and mating tapped holes), I also add steel angle braces to the upper corners, underneath the control surface, where the side upright panels meet the top.  This solidifies these enclosures to create a solid, single, 6-sided housing...versus two, 3-sided enclosure halves, partially attached to each other on the bottom only:

     

    sYAYnq.jpg

     

    You can see 1 steel angle brace installed above, on the left (not yet installed on the right).  This bracing offers 3 much needed improvements to these enclosures:

     

    1) Prevents the control surface top from bowing/flexing downward due to the weight of your hands/palms/wrists...and exuberant play

     

    2) Prevents the upright side panels (which are part of the bottom half of the enclosure) from winging outward causing unsightly gaps between the metal

     

    3) Adds 8-16 oz. (depending on the size of enclosure, which dictates the length of the braces) of additional weight to the light-weight aluminum enclosure

     

    So on any other controller, I would have simply repeated these enhancements to the enclosure like I always do, then machined the necessary clearance holes for the joystick and button(s), and the joystick's mounting holes.  But look carefully at an original PAC-MAN upright control panel:

     

    p2gBJS.png

     

    Notice, that there are 6 black carriage bolts visible in the control panel (1 in each of the 4 corners of the artwork, and 2 centered on either side of the joystick).  Now look again:

     

    6gYgHs.png

     

    ...what you don't see, are the 4 fasteners that mount the joystick in place.  How can that be?  What sort of witchcraft/sorcery did Midway use for this?  I'll show you:

     

    IwLVZ1.png

     

    Underneath the metal control panel, is a piece of plywood, that the joystick is top-down mounted through (via 4 hidden fasteners highlighted above), which was then (as an assembly) mounted to the underside of the metal control panel via:

     

    aW0kjn.png

     

    ...you guessed it...6 black carriage bolts.  Now for reference, let's look at my controller again:

     

    GNnBkg.png

     

    ...and what do you see, the same 6 black carriage bolts in the control panel (1 in each of the 4 corners of the artwork, and 2 centered on either side of the joystick), and no visible joystick mounting fasteners.  So obviously, I simply copied Midway's design, and got myself a cheap piece of wood, and duplicated what they did, right...hell and no:

     

    nJQOxH.png

     

    I would never install a piece of plywood into a masterpiece like this...that was built into an aluminum enclosure.  Instead, I installed a 6" wide, custom machined aluminum C-channel, to perform the same task of hiding the joystick fasteners...which are highlighted above.  And here below, you can see the 6 black carriage bolts, that mount the channel with joystick, to the underside of the control panel:

     

    CCDPpf.png

     

    ...just like how Midway did it...albeit a helluva lot stronger.  Then of course for the added side Flipper and Launch buttons, I had to machine/remove a bit of material from the side steel angle braces, and the outer edges of the aluminum C-channel, so that there wouldn't be any interference.  

     

    So there it all is.  The extreme lengths that I'll go to (apparently)...to create the greatest PAC-MAN joystick controller...ever built.

     

    I would assume, now that I've shown you all how I've done it...there will be a flood of copycats hitting ebay sometime here in the very near future!  🤣

     

    For those who have taken the time to read along, this has been just a small glimpse into my world (and brain) of custom built controllers, to help those understand the utter minutiae of detail(s) that I take into consideration, and pay attention to...for some of my more elaborate, and ultimately expensive, creations.  Thanks for reading. 

    • Like 1

  25. Posted

    Yes, there are PC mice (of several hardware variations and connection types), PC track-balls (PC mouse alternatives with ~1" thumb actuated balls, and those larger types with larger finger tip actuated balls usually used by graphic designers and engineers), and then there are "arcade" track-balls, or a "Trak-Ball" as ATARI called them.  I personally have used some version of a Logitech PC track-ball (currently the M570) on every computer I have owned or used at work, for probably the better part of the last 15 years.  And like I said...if point-and-click type games (old Sierra "Quest-esque" games, Lemmings type games) are made available for the ColecoVision...I'm happy to use either a PC mouse, or a PC track-ball for their gameplay...if its possible.  But if I want to play games like Missile Command, Centipede, Millipede, Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, and/or Atari Football...then I only want an open-frame, enclosure mountable, 2-1/4", 3", or 4", true arcade track-ball...again if possible.  There are currently a couple of arcade track-balls made/sold (normally for MAME use), that feature USB and/or PS/2 connectivity...some cheap, and then also the nicer HAPP 2-1/4" and 3" track-balls...both also available with USB & PS/2 connectivity.  And if those can be used for appropriate games, with true proportional control, not simply like using a Roller Controller in "joystick" mode...then I'm all for it, again if the electronics required for their use are robust and reliable enough to last.  

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