doubledown

Do any of the games you like to play have an arcade-counterpart...could be a start of what type of controls to use...match what the arcade used. Also keep in mind that while basically all controls can be mounted in a thin metal control panel, approximately 0.125" or thinner, some controls, like most of the Japanese stuff (Sanwa, Seimitsu), will only work on these thinner panels. If your enclosure has a top of plastic or wood, that's 1/2" thick (or more), most of these Japanese controls won't work, unless you counter-bore (remove) material from the bottom to "create" this thinner area for them. A lot of arcade companies did some pretty creative stuff with their control panels regarding this back in the day, as most of the cabinets back then were 3/4" plywood and the likes. All modern candy cabinets, use thin metal panels, so components made for them, are the norm...again in the realm of the Japanese components. Off the top of your head, is there any arcade game, or home console arcade stick, that you remember liking the feel of? Based on that I might be able to help with recommending some parts that would be similar. Your biggest options with joysticks would be the knob...round ball top, or tapered bat top...and the switches...clicky micro-swtiches, or silent leaf-switches Then with buttons your major options are the plunger...concave plunger, or convex plunger...and the switches...clicky micro-switches, quiet key-switches, or silent leaf-switches In the realm of the arcades, leaf-switches (for joysticks and push-buttons) were the defacto standard until say the mid to late 80s, when micro-switches started taking over. On an abused public accessed arcade machine, the leaf-switches can require some occasional maintenance, not so much with the micro-switches...but some people hate hearing click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, and so on. There are "quiet" micro-switches made, but you can still hear them, and again there are cheap micro-switches, and good micro-switches. Offering different forces required to actuate, sound levels, length of travel until actuation...but most controls don't have all of these options when purchasing...they would be upgrade parts you could purchase separately/later if you chose. Some of the controllers I've built, I made to replicate the arcade experience of a particular game...so I used the same (when possible), or similar types of controls. If the original had leaf-switch joystick and buttons, that's what I used, same goes for micro-switch versions.

I'm sure the plastics could work well, depending on pricing for raw materials (I'm sure wood would probably be cheaper, but who knows), and then to determine how you would be fastening the pieces together. Obviously having a drill press can really help, the biggest problems would be hole accuracy, and cutting/drilling the holes, for the buttons and the joystick's shaft clearance hole. Button hole sizes required, will depend on the buttons selected, they're all a little different from one brand to another HAPP, iL, Groovy Game Gear, Ultimarc, and or any of the Japanese styles. For example old 4-piece arcade original leaf-switch push-buttons (available from ArcadeShop and others) need a hole >1.130", where as GGG Classx buttons are smaller at >1.068". For the joystick's clearance, most of the time you're safe somewhere between 1.125" -1.500", again depends on the stick. I would suggest getting your components, taking their actual measurements before you did any actual cutting/drilling. Obviously if you're drilling larger clearance holes, you're limited by the size of bit you can find, in my case, I can use a 1/4" or 3/8" end mill and make any hole exactly the size I want to the 0.0001". Just for further research for you (if you're into that sort of thing), here are a few places I buy new components from (I'm not affiliated with any, just a customer) so that you can see what's out there: Mikes Arcade Groovy Game Gear Ultimarc Focus Attack Arcade Shop Paradise Arcade Shop Suzo Happ Arcade Shock ...I'm sure there's a few others I'm forgetting. It can be slightly daunting if you actually are the type of person who would do research, take time and plan it out...but assume whatever you do, after you've done it, you'll have learned a few things, and/or disliked at least one thing about it, and want to make a 2nd one that's "better" in your mind...trust me! I don't know if you've checked out the link in my signature to my website which showcases my portfolio (not a store site, just a Google site with pics of what I've made), but it may provide some inspiration for you. If at some point you get near a finish, and want to do some CPO artwork, depending on what you're looking to end up with let me know, I do all my own...literally. I may borrow some images from the internet, but most I digitally draw, print, laminate, apply double-sided adhesive sheeting, and trim for application (all at my house). I currently can do up to 9" x 16.75" so if you're looking for something for a control panel overlay, I'd be happy to help. I've provided some artwork for some others guys for their projects. Of course if you want just a plain colored housing that's fine too...just thought I'd offer.

All the custom ones that I've made, I've used Hammond Mfg., Aluminum sloped top, or Steel flat top, black powder-coated enclosures (depends on the size I need, and the depth required for the controls I'm using). I really prefer the metal enclosures, but then working with metal can be tough/impossible for some...I happen to have access to a CNC mill at work to make mine. Plus being factory powder-coated, I don't need to do any painting or other finishing to them. My personal feeling, and again simply my thoughts, a lot of the home-made controllers I've seen look a little too home-made for my tastes. I realize that I have an unfair advantage with access to a mill, but that's just my good fortune I guess. Obviously buying any enclosure (of any kind), you'll will be at the mercy of what is commercially available, if you make your own (from wood or other material), you can obviously build any size you want. One issue to consider with wood, depending on how big you make it (and thickness and species of wood), it can get heavy, potentially heavier than you would want in your lap for any long period of time.

I like this one. I made up this one for a member here for the same purpose: SMS Control Pad with a custom-made single cable that breakout into 2 connectors near the console end, with custom Spy Hunter, arcade-inspired graphics.

Custom made by me. The battery pack and power switch are for the illuminated push-buttons. The first "lighted button" controller I made was my Mouse Trap version for the ColecoVision...which does not provide any available power at the controller ports, like the Atari's do. So as I already had a power solution figured out, when I built this one, I just replicated the power portion (even though technically the Atari's don't need). Which I did as both a safety measure (so that there could be absolutely no damage to the console in the event of a short circuit), and it allows me to illuminate the push-buttons, whenever I want to on display, without having to have it plugged into a console that is powered on.

From my experience, when playing an actual arcade game cabinet, your arms/wrists are downward and outward (from your torso) to the control panel, and depending on how tall you are, or how you are standing, you may not use the panel to rest your palms/wrists at all. But when the controller is sitting in your lap, the angles of your forearms are outward, and parallel or slightly upward (depending on thickness of joystick), and I definitely want the palm/wrist support in this instance. I think a lot of pre-made ones are "made small" as a cost savings, but why even the high end $200+ sticks have controls so close to the operator, I don't understand. It's this reason that I never use the HORI stick that I got for my Switch.

Figured I'd post mine too, the ultimate Robotron: 2084 master! One controller to rule them all:

That is a pretty good guide, I feel the box is just a little smaller than I would like, especially if I considered 2 rows of buttons. Here's the layout I made upon actually testing comfort and ergonomics, and use when applicable (when I'm not replicating a specific arcade game layout).: Again comfort and ergonomics is personal preference. I developed this from actual arcade layouts, info guides I found online, and actual print-out testing...and this is what works for me.

I've seen the SEGAs sell for as high as $100, usually when sold as tested/working/guaranteed. Others will sit for sale on ebay for $100 for 6 months. If you really want to move them fast, verify they work, sell them as such, and you should be able to sell them reasonably quickly for $50 - $75. I'll keep mine and at some point do something with it...just to say I can probably! Like I said, analog control for me it didn't seem worth further pursuit, but again I'm not a 5200 die-hard, others may disagree. From the info I found online, there are a couple of different ways you can make a digital 5200 controller. The most common is basically to use the contacts of your digital joystick to send the proper "analog values" (resistance) for Left / Centered / Right, and Up / Centered / Down. Most of the projects I had seen online had people using fixed resistors for the Left/Right, and Up/Down, then using pots for their horizontal and vertical center adjustment. When I built my paddle controller first, the horizontal axis was simply going to be a potentiometer, and a small (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch for Up and Down (to navigate the AtariMax menu). I initially used 1K for up, and 500K for down, but my particular console wouldn't respond to down commands consistently. So I increased the value and got it to work. Then I read somewhere else, whereas people were talking about using a higher resistance for Right & Down, maybe 680K or something, so I figured just to make my controllers bullet-proof (so that they would work on any console), I simply installed pots for all 6 points. I don't have my notes in front of me, but if memory serves, the Up and Left switches' NO contacts are wired directly to their corresponding pots, low range 0 - 10K or something. The NC contacts of those same switches are wired to the centering pots in series with a resistor so that the "center" can't be turned lower than the low values of the Up & Left. Then the NO contacts of the Right and Down switches are wired to their Right/Down pots in series with a resistor so that these values can't be turned lower than the values of Center...I think that's right, I'd have to double check. All this may be overkill, and quasi-unnecessary, but both my controllers work perfectly with every game from the original library, plus some homebrew games that I've been able to test (that don't need "absolute" analog control obviously), and did so on 4 different consoles. There are a few 3rd party games that some home-made digital joysticks/controllers have had issues with, Gyruss, Popeye, Jr. Pac-Man, and Bounty Bob Strikes Back come to mind. Gyruss, can't go all the way around the circle, Popeye, can't go up or down stairs, Jr. Pac-Man will always be wanting to go one direction (I think right), Bounty Bob can't go left. My wiring scheme works fine with all of these games. But again there are multiple ways to do it, this is just what I decided upon & designed...and fortunately it works!

I bought one of the Sega sticks (got it on KLOV for a decent deal), and yes they were from the Naomi generation, and the pots are goofy to find replacements for (at least with my research), assuming you could find one with the right resistance value to work for the 5200. I bought a couple different pots to try from Mouser, at 500M, just for initial testing (a higher value is actually needed), and of the 4 I got only 1 would physically fit, but the "physical resistance" required to turn the pot was noticeably higher than the original ones in the joystick, and it substantially slowed down it's return-to-center (another property to be concerned with). So that's when after some more research into the games that actually "need" an analog joystick, I decided that the list was too short for "me" to continue looking into it, and I'm going to use the Sega stick for either a PS1/PS2 or Gamecube analog arcade stick. There definitely weren't a lot of arcade games that used analog "knob-topped" joysticks (not flight sticks), there were probably more that used the 49-way digital sticks, that some people may confuse as analog sticks, Midway's NFL Blitz used one of the 49-ways.

PM sent.

Digital joysticks can be pretty straight forward (plus they work great for about 85%-90% of the games in the 5200 library)...here are the 2 that I built : Single Stick: Twin Stick: I'm not a die-hard 5200 fanboy (as I didn't grow up with one), so when I looked into the games that require an analog joystick, of the few that there are, they weren't any that I was really interested in playing. And I don't consider Kaboom!, Super Breakout, Pole Position games that should be played with a joystick, I made a paddle controller for those, and games like Missile Command should be played with the Trak-Ball. When looking at using an analog arcade stick, obviously there will be a major difference in the potentiometers used. Most analog arcade joysticks used either 5K or 10K pots, where as the 5200 is looking for something in the 500K - 1M range. So you could look into the circuit others offer than can adapt a PC's analog joystick for use with the 5200, and see if you can get it to work with an analog arcade stick (with it's factory pots), or see if the stick's pots can be replaced with one in the value range more appropriate for the 5200. Additionally there is also the price of the hardware, as analog arcade sticks'a aren't usually that cheap, and above the budget of most. Additionally most of them are large flight sticks in form factor, I think only Sega/Seimitsu made modern-ish ball-knob arcade joysticks (10K pots), and whenever I find them, people are usually asking around $100 for them used. You'd just really need to look at, or think about, the short list of games that need an analog stick to determine if it's worth it to you to build one.

Something under or near-ish $100 should yield you a reasonable quality joystick. Meaning that when you press left, your character should move left...instantly, and every time...and it should last a reasonable amount of time, and handle a mild amount of abuse. That being said, I don't have any personal recommendations as I find most purchased sticks seriously lacking in ergonomics. The last manufacturer-made arcade stick I bought was the HORI Real Arcade Pro V Hayabusa for the Switch (also PC compatible). While I applaud, as always, HORI's build quality of the unit, and the components feel good for what they are (modern-day Japanese stick/buttons), the controls are so low on the panel, that there is virtually no support for your palms when playing. I don't find it comfortable for any amount of play time. Not thread-jacking, and not self-promoting, but here's an example of one I built for the SNES: The sloped housing is 17" wide by 11" deep, and notice how far upward I installed the joysticks/buttons. The space from the front edge, up to the controls, offers for more than enough space for your palms to rest comfortably on, for even the longest gaming sessions. Obviously this is a personal preference / pet-peeve, and may not be an annoyance to other users. Just something to think about when looking at your available options.

Does it have to be a "flexible" vinyl sticker? I think you'd have trouble with a detailed picture like that on vinyl, but I'm not a vinyl printing expert. If its for a flat surface, I could print, laminate, and add adhesive sheeting, like I do for my control panel overlays. An example: Obviously this will be a bit thicker (5 mil lamination media front and back, photo paper, and 1 mil of adhesive sheeting), and not as flexible as a vinyl sticker, but if it's something you think you could use send me a PM. I can print/laminate/adhesive up to 9" x 17".

Years ago...I bought my first, and only arcade cabinet...Sega's Turbo. I was 28 or so at the time, and my dad (who was 65 at the time) and I, went and got it in his Pontiac Aztec...yeah I know, but he seriously loved that thing. It was about an hour away. When we got there, the guy had it in his driveway so we backed in and took a look at it. I had read where people talked about removing the back door to make sure everything was securely mounted (PCBs, power supplies and the likes), before tipping it so that you wouldn't cause any damage. So I did, and everything seemed to be secured in place as it should be...not simply lying in a pile in the bottom of the cabinet. We backed his car up near it, tipped the top backwards, and got it to rest on the floor of his Aztec. We then picked up the front bottom edge to get it horizontal with the Earth, and slid it in. It was a sunny day so no sort of wrapping or blankets were involved. I lived on the 2nd floor of an apartment building, with a large outside stairway...but I honestly don't remember taking it up there, but obviously we did. If you're on carpet in your apartment, you're gonna have a hard time if you want to pull it out, and work on it in the back...so sliders can be a good option. I know I didn't initially, and besides the hard time moving it around the few times I needed to, the old steel rusty leveling feet stained the carpet where it sat, $50 out of my security deposit when I moved out. I had a few graphical glitches when I first got it home, but from recommendations I got online, I pulled and re-seated all of the socketed ICs, and all of the cables, which took care of the issues. I had a few other things to do with it, replace some light bulbs, speakers and the likes, but nothing major. The 2 times I've moved it since I originally got it, I used an appliance dolley (the kind with the strap), as a buddy has one and it makes moving it a lot easier than obviously trying to just carry it. With a standard dolley, you can also simply use a ratchet strap around the cabinet and dolley, to kind of create an appliance dolley. For what its worth, I almost think I remember reading somewhere that it was recommended to transport them on their side (vs back) if you can't stand it up, but I could be mistaken, and like I said I transported mine on its back with little to no peril. I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a huge arcade community over at the KLOV forums...I'm sure there are threads that could be searched with more info, and if you need help with any repairs when you get it, those would be the guys to ask (or the threads to search). Good luck.

Thanks...that's why I do it, and I really like controllers apparently! So I got a little more machining time in today (on my day off mind you), and I thought some of you might be interested in the operation so I took a few pics...enjoy. So here's our CNC mill at work. In the world of CNC machines, its a baby, basically a hobbyist / personal sized machine (although the bare machine without the tool changer, flood coolant, and other options cost something in the neighborhood of $20,000 I believe): Here's the custom fixture I made specifically to hold the Hammond enclosure tops for machining...which I made on this very mill. Material holding/clamping can be one of the trickiest parts of machining, depending on its size and shape. This fixture also allows me to run repeat operations without having to find the X / Y / Z zeros for each piece, when running multiple parts one after another: And here is the top of the enclosure clamped in place waiting to be machined: Now the 2nd most important part, finding the X / Y / Z zero references for accuracy and repeatability, and so that your holes end up where you want them: This Haimer Zero Master uses a 4mm SST ball which you contact the edges/surfaces with, and run the material into it 1/2 of its diameter (2mm) to find the spindle's zero point, and is accurate to 1/100mm. Here's getting the Z reference, which will allow the mill's software calculation to account for the tool length offsets, because tools come in different lengths, and to account for their wear: And here after a few minutes of computer-controlled, high speed cutting and drilling, 1 machined control panel: Then after a few additional off-mill operations and clean up, here is a completely machined enclosure (top and bottom), plus the steel braces (which will get painted to prevent rust) that I add internally for rigidity: Its just that simple!

Unfortunately this is very subjective to personal preference and your definition of "not absurdly expensive." The two biggest things to concern yourself with (once you've got a price in mind) will be the components used in the stick, and it's overall size and ergonomics. That being said, there are only so many "pre-built" options on the market...so unless you look into custom building one (or having one custom built), you're limited by what is currently available. Chances are, inexpensive sticks will feel inexpensive, and/or uncomfortable. More expensive options can/may feel and work a lot better...but then are obviously more expensive. Market prices probably range between $25 - $250-ish for pre-built sticks, and maybe in the range of $100 - $450 if you had something custom built. You really need to define/determine what you're looking to spend, what sort of games you're looking to play, and what you need controls-wise (i.e. number of joysticks/buttons/trak-ball and the likes).

Time Pilot would be great...if of course, the "choppy scrolling" of the original ColecoVision port could be greatly improved upon.

Awesome to hear. I know for games like Galaxian, for example, that limit your on-screen missiles to 1 at a time, with a "tall" vertical monitor it takes a long time for your missile to leave the screen if you miss all of the enemies. Meaning, that the time to take your follow-up shot can seem like an eternity, which is one of the aspects that makes vintage games like this so difficult. But often when they're ported to a horizontal screened game console and thus shrunk vertically, this now shorter screen means that this distance, and also this time are now shorter, which definitely changes the game-play and difficulty. In today's modern day and age, with the availability of LCD monitors with stands that allow for easy portrait/landscape rotation (assuming you're not talking about a 55" - 75" tv), it would be great to have games that offered the option to play in Horizontal or Vertical mode (when arcade accurate), like some of the Namco compilation titles on that were available on the Playstation. Of course, not being a programmer, I have absolutely no idea what it takes to make this a possibility...I'm just typing out-loud here. But truly, and with all sincerity, the game does look great, and I will definitely be looking to buy when it's available. Keep up the good work. By the by, and not to thread jack I promise, upon doing a little cursory internet searching, it appears that the North American (Sega/Gremlin) release of Moon Cresta, and Centuri's Eagle, are 2 more games that would be arcade-accurately controlled by an "button-only" controller...like this: It's truly a magical time to be a ColecoVision owner!

The video looks great, especially the animation when your ship gets shot / destroyed. But as it looks like the game is being displayed over the full width of a horizontal tv/monitor, and Moon Cresta and Eagle used "vertical" monitors in their arcade cabinets...the overall screen ratio (and thus the total distance from your ship to the top of the screen) won't be arcade identical...is this correct?

Well I'm finally back to work, which means I can finally get some time on the CNC mill, and I can finally get back to creating more world-class controllers. With that being said...A Star Is Born! Unveiling my Star Cursor Edition - VVG Enhanced Controller: And as a reminder...here's the original: Built into a Hammond 17" x 10" flat top enclosure (required due to the mounting depth of the joystick), this is my homage to the Australian-made Star Cursor MCA-201 home video game joystick, from back in the good old days. The components used in the build are as follows: *MCA Australia, Top Fire Joystick (arcade original), rebuilt with new Cherry micro-switches *iL, PSL-L Concave Cherry micro-switch push-buttons, 1 red, 1 yellow *Sanwa, OBSF-24KK, 24mm square key-switch push-buttons, 10 red, 2 yellow *NKK, ON-OFF-ON paddle switch - The orientation of this switch determines how the joystick's top fire button is wired/connected...either as a duplicate Left Fire button, Off (disconnected), or as a duplicate Right Fire button. ...and of course a brand new 10' controller cord, with cleats on the rear of the housing to wrap it all up nice and tidy. Installing the square buttons is an absolute royal pain, but I do like the way they look. I'm contemplating adding some artwork to the front face, as it looks a bit plain. Fortunately that can be added any anytime now if I choose to. Enjoy...and hopefully more new controllers to be unveiled soon!

I think it could end up as somewhere between very cool...to over to moon amazing...depending on how much time and money I threw at it. The biggest problem is, while I love the idea of a super cool War Games controller...I have never really spent much time playing the game, and I didn't play it as a kid so I don't have those fond childhood memories of it. Then add on top of that the fact that I've got about 12 other controllers ahead of it right now. I'm sure I'll do something with it at some point...I just don't know how "soon" I'll be able to get to it.

This controller would end up costing more than the real WOPR!

The arcade-accurate, Robotron: 2084 controller pictured above in post #5, is not an Edladdin controller...it's one of mine. Ed and I obviously use similar looking enclosure housings. If you went the X-Arcade route, it should be possible to replace the joysticks with more arcade accurate ones...if your dad really didn't like the look or feel of the modern micro-switch versions in the X-Arcade. I believe the joysticks they use feature the "somewhat" industry standard 3.0" x 2.6" mounting pattern and with their wood enclosure, assuming it has enough depth, no further modification should be required. Simply remove the factory sticks and replace them with WICO reproductions available HERE. Just a thought.

I don't think an XBOX 360's thumb-sticks qualify as "arcade sticks."