doubledown

Well here we are...almost at the end of 2020...and I was hoping to show off a couple of new controllers that I've been working on before the year's end. But alas, with the current state of the parcel shipping services, I believe I will be denied...unless some miracle happens today or tomorrow, and my parts show up. So in the mean time, I'll just patiently wait, and ponder more new and amazing ideas. In other news...we got a new "toy" at work last week: I will admit, that I personally don't much go in for 3D printed items. I think the technology is neat, and cool, but it will never replace molded, and/or machined parts. They of course have a strength limitation when compared to their molded counterparts, then there is also the major difference in finish and appearance when compared to their molded counterparts. And I will be the first to tell you that I won't be making any custom controller housings or enclosures with this printer...but I do think however, that I will be able to make use of some 3D printed parts internally, inside some of my controllers (little fiddly mounting bits and the likes). After I got the printer set up, I had to test print something...so I found a 2600 Paddle knob (-esque) model online, and printed one to check it out: Other than its obvious 3D printed look, like being able to discern the individual layers, (wherein every 3D printed part looks like an engineering sample vs. a finished part)...it came out pretty well. So I'm sure I'll be able to make some good use of it, here in the near future. Let's see, what else...we also got a new/updated controller w/software for our CNC mill, plus a bunch of new tooling for it. All of this will allow me to do a few new things that I couldn't before, as well as speed up my production/operational time on the machine...so win/win for me! Then one last note...for the ColecoVision fans...I do have a new, really "unique-ish" controller design that I'm working on. So I had this idea for a controller, that doesn't really appeal to me, but I believe others will be interested in it, and it fills a gap in the current marketplace. I had ordered an enclosure that I've never used before, and I started working on the layout and features...when I had a sudden/crazy inspiration, for a way to make it 100% better than originally planned. For the new feature, I had to design a new PCB (which is now done, and on order), and I still have to order the buttons for this one...but I think when people see it, it's going to blow their "tiny" little minds. So happy holidays to my fans and friends, and hopefully 2021 will be better year for all of us!

You'll never get 2 people to agree on any single opinion, much less a group of people. With that said, the 5200 die-hard fans will always say that the original CX-52s are perfectly fine, and the only proper way to play the 5200. I'm not a 5200 die-hard fan, and my opinion is that the CX-52s suck out loud. There are about 10-ish games in the 5200 library that can be, or need to be, played with an analog joystick, and even some of those are wrong. The arcade game Gorf, used an 8-way digital joystick, but the 5200 port "adds" absolute analog positioning into the joystick controls, which means if you want to sit in one spot and shoot (not in the center of the screen), you have to hold the joystick at that position...why!?! The arcade game Galaxian used a 2-way digital joystick, but the 5200 port incorporates relative analog movement, so that you can "slowly" move out of the way of an incoming missile...what the hell for!?! In the end, you have to decide what you want to play with, if you want a 5200. Chances are, if you're not a die-hard 5200 fan...than you'll want something digital...so that you can actually enjoy the 90% percent of the library that is properly played with a digital controller.

Digital joystick...if you're not already using one.

Please note that the actual cash value of One Schrute Buck is 1/100 of $0.01 USD. You should check with your currency broker to determine it's value in Canadian Dollars (I'm not sure of the current exchange rate), and also, be sure to check with your financial representation to determine any potential tax liability from this windfall. It may bump you up into a higher tax bracket!

@Pixelboy...may I present you with 1 Schrute Buck: ...for Antarctic Adventure. The "white" snow tie-in/theme...perfect. I honestly don't think I would have come up with that one, probably because I almost never play this game for some reason...but yes. And, as there is no arcade version of this game which I would have to mimic, I would have full artistic license with this one. Well done sir!

...it doesn't just look amazing...it is amazing.

In my never-ending quest for unique joysticks, and then of course, the inevitable and unique controller projects that I build with them, I have acquired a few of these vintage beauties: I've got a mix of these 38mm molded ball-knob sticks, from the early to mid 80s, made by both HAPP and Coin Controls, in both their micro-switch and leaf-switch variants. In their "factory" form, they are intended to be used in a "thick" wood control panel. But, I have figured out how to cut the molded shaft shoulder shorter, and then cut a new matching E-clip groove, so that these can be installed into the "thin" aluminum Hammond enclosures that I use...without them being ridiculously tall and un-ergonomic. I currently have plans for 1 each of the black (leaf-switch), red (micro-switch), and blue (micro-switch) variants that I have, but for the life of me, I can't think of any good idea, theme, or concept for the white one. So I'm offering a bounty of 1 Schrute Buck to anybody who can propose an idea, or theme, or game tie-in, wherein a white joystick would be a brilliant idea. Note I've already used a white ball-knob joystick for the SMURF: RIGC controller, so that one's out...as it's already been done. I await your brilliance & inspiration, and thanks in advance!

It's really on a console by console basis, as to what values will work the best...which is why I just went ahead and installed 6 potentiometers on my controllers (for guaranteed console/game compatibility). I remember some testing I did, where I adjusted the pots on the controller for 1 console (using Pete's Test Cart), then disconnected it, and checked the actual resistance values at the controller cable connector for each of the 6 joystick positions. Then I did this again for a 2nd console I had for testing, and the values from 1 console to the other, were pretty substantially different from each other. I'd have to look back to see if I still have my notes with what those values were, or I could test/check it again...but again, those values would work perfectly for my console...but maybe not as well for somebody else's.

As @Danjovic mentioned, you will want to use a joystick with switches that have both a NO & NC set of contacts. I'm not sure what joystick you're using, but most modern Japanese sticks (and their Chinese clones) only have the NO contacts available, unless you replace the switches. Then note, that using fixed value resistors for all points (Left/Center/Right & Up/Center/Down) can lead to compatibility issues with some games and consoles, depending on the resistor values selected, and the current state of adjustment of your console. Most who make these types of "digital" 5200 controllers, use potentiometers (adjustable resistors) for at least the horizontal and vertical centers, and I personally used 6 potentiometers (plus 4 resistors) for the (2) 5200 digital controllers that I've made. Mine were both tested on 3 different consoles, and with every digital playable game in the 5200 library with 100% success, where I've seen others (who used only resistors, or just 2 potentiometers and 4 resistors) mention "it works well for most games, but it won't work for game X, Y, and/or Z for some reason. The reason being, is that the "generic" resistor values they used didn't work perfectly with their console due to it being a bit out of adjustment, and/or due to how different games for the 5200, (usually those from 3rd party publishers), scan for and read the resistance values sent by the controllers. Games known to be problematic are those like Gyruss (can't go completely around the circle), Popeye (can't go up or down stairs), Bounty Bob Strikes Back (can't go left), and Pac-Man Junior (can't go left, or down usually). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that simply using 6 fixed value resistors won't work, I just wanted to give you a heads up that you may need to try different values, or may decide you need to swap a few out, for potentiometers...if you find certain games aren't playable.

CLICK

Word from the wise...most emulation is horrible!

I wholeheartedly agree that games which require 0 or 1 button, can be great fun...look at Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Galaga, Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, and countless others. But there just are going to be those games, that require a little more control...like 3 Launch Control buttons in Missile Command, 4 Weapons Deployment buttons in Spy Hunter, and on, and on, and on. Personally, I say the more buttons the merrier, but I'm also fine with 0 or 1! 😁 It's a binary world...I'm just livin' in it.

Keep in mind, in a variant where say the 1/2/3 keypad buttons were used as the 3 Launch Control buttons...there is an interference issue with the ColecoVision, wherein it cannot cleanly read more than 1 keypad button press at a time. I'm not sure if the original Missile Command (or your version) allows for more than 1 missile to launch simultaneously (multiple simultaneous button presses), but if so, this would be an issue. The ColecoVision can read independently, and simultaneously: Left Side Button Right Side Button and any 1 of the 3rd or 4th SAC buttons, or any 1 keypad button The idea of using the Left and Right side buttons simultaneously can be problematic, if you accidentally press 1 button slightly before the 2nd is made, then you'll shoot from the wrong base. In a game with limited ammunition per round, it could be infuriating. Personally, I feel that an "automatically shoot from the nearest base (assuming ammo is available)" isn't a bad idea...for children! 😁

If I was going to build a 5200 controller in an enclosure this size, I'd just shift both the joystick and buttons outward a bit, and install the keypad and S/P/R buttons between them, like this: ...so my right hand wasn't resting on top of the keypad during gameplay.

Yeah, I'm aware, but with the "analog" 5200 controller requirements, I'd just assume keep this one digital for the 2600/7800/8-bits.

Thanks...and yes you should! I'm still looking for a copy of the game too. I've seen 1 or 2 pope up on ebay, but just a little more than I wanted to spend. Hopefully with my Concerto on the way, I'll be able to play it with that, before I can track down an actual cartridge. Thanks. I also ran across another neat little vintage arcade joystick recently, that I got from a guy over at the KLOV forums. Its employs a rubber grommet for stick centering (like the WICO and Bally/Midway sticks), but it uses a round metal actuator and lever arm micro-switches, (like some of the Taito and Nintendo sticks), not leaf-switches. So I bought it from the guy thinking that it's just something unique, and I'll give it a shot and see what I think of it, and eventually use it in some upcoming build. Come to find out, we're pretty sure it's from a small company Artic/ATW, who released a few forgettable games back in the day, but they also apparently released a bootleg version of Scramble, called...wait for it...Scramble. So as there are 2600 and 7800 ports of Scramble, and now the upcoming 8-bit version, it seems only proper to make a Scramble edition controller using this new joystick. So this will give me my Commando controller, as my leaf-switch controller, and soon to be, a Scramble controller, as my micro-switch controller. It just seems like all of the pieces fall into place when they need to.

In case anybody missed my post in the 2600 forums, I've determined that it is possible for a single 2-button controller, to switch back and forth, between 7800 & 2600 2-button wiring schemes, using a 5PDT switch, and simple passive components. I recently modified & re-wired my Commando controller with this new feature: When the switch's mechanical indicating cap is outward, and black...the buttons are wired for 2600 2-button games (hacks & homebrews); and when it's inward, and green...it's wired for 7800 games. I know how much people like having one controller work for as many consoles as possible!

Any of the 5200 games that employ analog absolute positioning, like Kaboom, Pole Position, Gorf (due to it's horrible port), and most (if not all) of the RealSports titles, wont' be playable with any type of digital joystick. The few 5200 games that offer analog relative movement, like Dreadnaught Factor, and Rescue on Fractalus, and I think Galaxian, are playable, but you lose the "fine" ability to "slowly/slightly" move in the available directions. There are only about 10-12 games in the 5200 library that employ analog absolute positioning. The bulk of the 5200 library...is actually played properly with a 4-way or 8-way digital joystick.

Figured I'd bump this, the oldest ColecoVision thread...because this is what we do now! I have nothing new to add, no stupid comment to post, nor did I even read the topic. Happy reading!

...like this...agreed! Also it would be nice that when quoting someone, if it wouldn't quote their pictures, but simply the text (other forum sites do this). Especially when somebody posts 20+ pictures of something, then someone quotes them to ask a question (usually a stupid one), like "is this 10 year old thread item still for sale" (at the aforementioned 10 year old price), and we get to look at the all 20+ pictures again.

I sold a game about a year ago, tested before sold. Buyer (who was a pain to start with, and I should have cancelled the sale) got the game and said it didn't work. When I received it back, I took pictures of the game working (tv screen photos), uploaded those through ebay's messaging system to the buyer to prove it worked, and after a few back and forths with the seller, I took it to ebay. I think it started with an e-mail to them, then I think I called and talked to someone, all the while referencing the messages I had back and forth with the buyer, including the "working" pictures I uploaded (which ebay can see). When it was all said and done, I ended up even. Getting the game back, getting refunded for the shipping, and the return shipping, and all.

The plan right now is that the Driving/Paddle control buttons are going to be wired as so: Right Button - Left Hand, Index Finger operated - wired to button for selected Rotary control, regardless of P1 or P2 assignment Middle Button - Left Hand, Middle Finger operated - wired to P1 joystick UP, for "thrust" in games like Asteroids DC, Omega Race DC, Thrust+ Platinum Left Button - Left Hand, Ring Finger operated - wired to P1 joystick DOWN, for Shields/"OTHER" in games like Asteroids DC (Hyperspace), and Thrust+ Platinum (Tractor Beam) So Bumper Bash wouldn't be playable. I've never actually heard of this game before now, so I did a little research on it, along with the other 2 pinball games, Video Pinball (which I've been playing since I was little), and Midnight Magic. What's incredible, is that all 3 of these pinball games...use a different control scheme: While "technically" Bumper Bash is supposed to be played with Paddle controllers, its only using the Paddles' buttons, which are actually wired as the joystick right & left directions. But since the "left" paddle's button is wired as joystick right, and the "right" paddle's button is wired as joystick left, if I installed "Flipper" buttons on the side of the enclosure for playing these pinball games, I would need to add an additional switch, so that I could flip/flop the wiring specifically for Bumper Bash...versus the L/L & R/R order used for Midnight Magic and Video Pinball. Interesting concept...and an additional feature which would make this controller that much more unique, without sacrificing any ergonomics. Thanks for the idea! Any "native/original" games that require 2 joysticks (for as little as the 2nd button, to more intensive control requirements, like those in RotLA, or Stargate), wouldn't be playable, unless I slightly re-think the joystick button control wiring. Most, or all of the games that require simply the button from the 2nd controller, have been hacked to work with the 2600 "2-button" wiring scheme, but I could definitely wire Button 2 (middle button), from the joystick control section, to the P2 controller cable, for playing original 2 button games. Another good idea, thanks!

Well if nobody's got any more "bright ideas" of things I need to add, or account for...I think the hardware layout is all set, and I'll start to look at the wiring, for the building of this controller, thusly: The only few final details to hammer out, will be with regards to the buttons (brand/color), and the joystick (brand/knob). For the buttons, I was originally assuming leaf-switch push-buttons, as Orange (body) / Orange (plunger), but now I'm thinking I may change this. I know for sure, that I'll use Orange/Orange for the main/index finger operated buttons (for each control type, as this matches the original controllers), but I may go with either Black/Black, Black/Orange, or Orange/Black for the 2nd & 3rd button for each control type...have to wait and see how the different color options look. Then for the joystick, I'm also undecided, but I have been thinking about it for a while. There isn't much Atari arcade joystick pedigree, for the era during which the 2600 was in full swing. Most Atari arcade games of that time had paddle or spinner controls, or handlebars, or yokes, or something else entirely weird/bespoke. A few of their early 80s arcade games that did use joysticks (like the wonderful Kangaroo), simply used a "standard/skinny" WICO...so that's an option...I have a used one that I could install. After that, mid-80s, Atari made their own Atari Logo ball knob joysticks, used in games like Gauntlet, and Temple of Doom, but those joysticks are way to deep/bulky to fit into this housing. So then I got to thinking about the CX-40, and thought, why not something with a hexagonal shaft/knob. I've personally never seen anybody else do something like it, so I thought I'd give it a try: So here on the left, is an iL EuroJoystick 2, with a custom Hex shaft/knob that I made for it. I checked the measurements of a CX-40, which is approximately 0.600" wide across the flats at the top, 0.700" at the bottom, and a little under 3" tall from the base. I had some 0.750" hex aluminum stock at work, so after a couple of quick/fast measurements, I made up a sample for myself to see how I would like it. Obviously mine is not tapered (fatter at the bottom, skinnier at the top), like the original, but I honestly think I like that better...and it's a little fatter overall, which I know I definitely like better. I'll play around with it a bit more, when I can get it mounted this weekend, to see how I really like it in action, and if I need/want to alter the bottom gap, overall height, fatness, taper, or any of the other physical characteristics. Then if I decide to use it, or something similar (if I have to machine a new one because I want to change physical dimensions), I'll knock down the hex points a bit on the lathe, and then coat it in a rubber like Plasti-Dip, or Flex-Seal, or some such similar...for that rubbery CX-40 feel. Additionally as the Hex knob is simply that...a screw on knob...if I decide I hate it at any point, I can simply replace it with a ball or bat knob, if I prefer.

I've never seen a master list of what games use what buttons/keypad keys. When I was doing some checking for this, I simply played the games, as well as read through the manuals here at AA. Most games might only use 1 or 2 keypad keys for selecting the difficulty or number of players at the start of a game, some obviously will use more...and during in-game play. Some, like Frogger, offer a keypad control option (versus joystick controls) for a game-play alternative. When in doubt, read the manuals.

Isn't that for the 8-bits? Seems the OP is inquiring about a 5200 version.