doubledown

Each controller has (4) total "fire" buttons, (2) on each side, (1) Lower & (1) Upper. So (2) unique buttons, that allow for ambidextrous control. There are 15 unique keypad buttons 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/*/0/#/Start/Pause/Reset.

For those that maybe need a reminder, of the fabulous-ness...to which Pixelboy is referring: Upright: Cabaret:

@Thomas Jentzsch thanks! I knew I saw that there was at least 1 game to use the Paddle Controller in the P2 port...at least I know I'm not crazy. So after some further research, and some play testing, this is what I've come up with: I can wire the Paddle and Driving Controllers, so that they can be connected to either the P1 or P2 cable, and the 1st rotary controller button (index finger operated), will be wired to it's mating controllers' button, whether at P1 or P2 - so with regards to the (3) rotary control buttons, from right to left: Right Button - Left Hand, Index Finger operated - wired to button for selected Rotary control, regardless of P1 or P2 assignment Middle Button - Left Hand, Middle Finger operated - wired to P1 joystick UP, for "thrust" in games like Asteroids DC, Omega Race DC, Thrust+ Platinum Left Button - Left Hand, Ring Finger operated - wired to P1 joystick DOWN, for Shields/"OTHER" in games like Asteroids DC (Hyperspace), and Thrust+ Platinum (Tractor Beam) Are there any other homebrews or hacks, that I haven't accounted for? Obviously if it's a original game, or homebrew or hack, that simply uses a Paddle or Driving controller in either P1 or P2, and only uses the knob and the controller's 1 button, that's "control scheme" is already accounted for. I'm looking for anything "weird" that I don't have yet on my radar/list.

Unfortunately it's my curse...thinking too much! 😃 I'm still trying to find out / determine, if there are any games (homebrews I would imagine), that use a Paddle controller in the P2 controller port (for Player 1), and if so, are any other controls required...like joystick or button inputs from a controller plugged in the P1 port (like Thrust+ and Asteroids DC when using the Driving Controller in the P2 port). I thought when researching some info this past weekend, I remember reading about 1 or 2 homebrew games that did this...but now I can't find that info, so maybe I'm remembering wrong. Obviously if there are no games where player 1 uses the Paddle controller plugged into P2, then it simply saves a bit of wiring, internally. If there are some that use this, and require extra controls...I need to make sure I account for them, if necessary.

Laaa, laaa, la la, la laaaah, laaaah, la la, la la! Pretty sure that's how the song goes. 😊

So I've been working on this joystick project, on and off for a while now...and have finally gotten around to dedicating the time needed to get past my biggest fundamental and physical hurdle, the switches and their actuation: On the left, is a "bone-stock" base, from an iL EuroJoystick 2, with round restrictors, an 8-way square actuator, and Cherry micro-switches. Hands down my joystick of choice when I'm selecting a modern, mass produced joystick for a controller build. The 2 biggest problems I have with this joystick, and why I don't think its perfect (especially for vintage games), is that its only sold with a molded bat knob lever, and its only available with pin actuated micro-switches. Fortunately, iL already offers 2 different length, threaded replacement shafts/levers, that allow for the use of screw on ball knobs...which solves 1 problem. So I've taken it upon myself to remedy the 2nd problem...the switches. On the right, is my modified joystick base, that I'm calling my VVG iLeaf Stick. Using Rollie leaf-switches, that were originally created/designed to offer a leaf-switch solution for modern micro-switch push-buttons from iL and HAPP, I've modified them (and the iL joystick base), to allow me to replace the Cherry micro-switches...with that oh-so-silent goodness, that can only be achieved with a leaf-switch. I machined a custom round actuator to replace the factory square one, which hits/actuates the switches more evenly than the original, and now I'm playing around with different spring tensions. In addition to the different springs (for different tensions, for different lengths of shafts), I'm also looking into modifying the 2 different available shafts to create a couple of other specific lengths I'm looking for...which can & will mimic the size/look/height/ of some famous arcade sticks of yesteryear. More to come.

Or create a listing on some sort of global peer-to-peer marketplace like ebay, or the likes.

I don't know of any way that I could do an "internal storage compartment w/ open-able door" that I would personally be happy with, in regards to it's look and function (I know some "manufactured" arcade sticks have this). Also it would be tough as the physical joystick and buttons are close to the back edge, so there isn't much "room" in the back area (where the cable comes out) to do this. The cables will probably be 10' each, which is what I make up as standard on most of my controllers, and I usually install cord cleats on the rear of the housing for cable management: In the instance of this new 2600 controller, as the P2 cable may not be connected most/all the time, I will probably install 2 separate sets (or a 2 stacked sets) of cleats on the rear of the enclosure, so that each cable can be wrapped up, or unwrapped and used, independently of each other.

So I think this is how I would install/wire/handle, the wiring & controls for this controller, if built like my mock-up from post #14 above: * The P1 Controller Cable switch, toggles between Joystick or Rotary controllers, as active The Joystick Cont. switch, toggles whether only 1 button, or all 3 buttons are active (in case the additional "paddle line" buttons cause any issues with any other hardware/software that I'm unaware of) The 3 Button switch, toggles the order of the buttons from left to right as 1-2-3, or 2-1-3 (for a couple of games that I don't like the default button order) The Rotary Cont. switch, toggles between the Paddle Controller or the Driving Controller, as active, by swapping/breaking/making the necessary lines/wires, and so that the buttons perform their correct function for that particular control (Left for the Paddle, and Button for the DC) * The P2 Controller Cable switch toggles between Touch Pad (Star Raiders Buttons) or Rotary controllers, as active The Rotary Cont. Switch, toggles between the Paddle Controller or the Driving Controller, as active, by swapping/breaking/making the necessary lines/wires, and so that the buttons perform their correct function for that particular control (Left for the Paddle, and Button for the DC), and additionally the 2nd (Up) and 3rd (Down) buttons for the rotary controllers would be active on the P1 cable for games like Thrust+, Asteroids DC, and possibly others. So questions: 1) Does anybody see any glaring problems/issues with this concept...or am I missing anything? 2) Am I correct that there are some homebrew games that use the Paddle Controller plugged into port 2, versus port 1? 3) If there are homebrew games that use the Paddle Controller plugged into port 2, do they require controls in addition to the potentiometer and it's 1 button (either on the P1 or P2 cable), like the Driving Controller does when plugged into Port 2 for games like Thurst+ and Asteroids DC? Any thoughts, answers, questions, comments...would be appreciated.

This should be in the "Wanted" section.

So here's a layout with 3 joystick buttons, and 3 rotary controller buttons: Doable...yes, ergonomic...yes, zero interference...yes, necessary...yet to be determined.

So I've been doing a bit more research this morning, and have come across a few things that seemingly haven't been mentioned yet, mostly with regards to the Paddle and/or Driving controllers. Some games that use these, actually use them plugged into port 2, and some require controls in addition to the knob and single button associated with them. Case in point: Thrust+, uses the Driving controller in Port 2 for rotation and it's button for firing...plus a joystick of Foot Pedal in Port 1 for Thrust & Shields/Tractor Beam via Up/Down Asteroids DC, uses the Driving controller in Port 2 for rotation and it's button for firing...plus a joystick of Foot Pedal in Port 1 for Thrust & Shields/HyperSpace via Up/Down I couldn't find details regarding Omega Race DC, but I'm assume it uses the Driving controller in Port 2 for rotation and it's button for firing...plus a joystick of Foot Pedal in Port 1 for Thrust via Up I couldn't find details regarding Sprintmaster DC, but as it only needs steering and acceleration (I believe), I assume this can all be controlled with only a Driving Controller...the question is, Port 1 or Port 2 Plus I thought I also remember reading somewhere about some Paddle games (I believe homebrews) using the Paddle controller plugged into Port 2, vs. Port 1. So with all this in mind, and as I'm already going to have a P2 cable (for the Star Raiders buttons), it seems that I should also have a switch, so that I can toggle the wiring of the Paddle or Driving controllers, to either the P1 or the P2 cable. Additionally with all this in mind, to be playable without the Foot Pedals, and/or 3 separate hands, I would need to have 3 buttons associated with the rotary controls. One as the standard/main controller button, then the other 2 wired to Port 1 Up & Down. Then there is the thought of 3 buttons associated with the joystick...versus 1 or 2. Several 8-bit games have been made/hacked to use 3 buttons (using the main joystick button, plus the 2 paddle lines). Now to my knowledge no 2600 games have this feature/option yet, but who's to say it won't happen at some point. So to future-proof the controller, maybe I should install/wire a 3rd button. I personally find the 17" x 11.25" enclosure that I plan to use with this project, the perfect size for playing in my lap, or alternatively on a desk/table top. Its 17" width rests on, and is basically the same width as my lap, providing amazing stability; plus it allows the controls to have a nice bit of space between them, so that my full-sized adult human hands, aren't jammed too close together...while still providing enough surface area to completely support my hands/wrists while playing. And as it's made from sheet aluminum, (plus the 2 internal steel angle braces that I add), it has a nice solid feel and weight to it, but it's not ridiculously heavy, like one this size would be if it were made from 1/2" or 3/4" particleboard/MDF. Obviously everyone's personal controller preference is unique and their own, and we all have different needs, wants and budgets. Some simply want an "arcade-ish" controller that's different and/or maybe slightly better than the OEM and available 3rd party options, some want a real arcade controller that actually takes ergonomics and playability into consideration. For some, their requirements are anything as long as its "small" and/or "inexpensive", and for others, with regards to size and price, the sky's the limit.

So I'm definitely warming up to the twin rotary control option (Paddle & Driving) on this arcade controller. As I knew it was going to have a Paddle controller, I was already looking into my options for a knob for it. I had considered the CX-30 paddle knob, an Atari Tempest arcade (and Warlords, and other games) knob, or something else completely different. I really liked the idea of the Tempest style knob as it has Atari arcade pedigree; but as I grew up with the CX-30s, I wasn't sure if I would like the smaller arcade knob (1.25" diameter, w/ 1.75" skirt) versus the the larger CX-30 knob (1.75 diameter). So I pulled out a set of paddles and played a couple of games of Kaboom with the stock knob, then swapped that out for a 3D printed Tempest knob reproduction that I have, and tried that. And I have to say...I like the smaller Tempest knob more, way more. So now with the possible addition of the Driving Controller, I checked it out with the CX-30 knob, and the Tempest knob, on Indy 500...and again I really like the Tempest knob way more. So at this point I'm thinking, ok, I'll add the Driving Controller, and I'll get 2 Tempest knobs...1 for each. But then I remembered that I have an original Super Breakout arcade control panel, and I thought that it had yet a different knob. So I pulled it out, and found this: On the left is an arcade original Atari Breakout knob, and on the right is a 3D printed Tempest reproduction knob. So as there are 2 official Atari arcade knobs, I can use 1 for each controller...the original "tapered top" for the Paddle controller (arcade accurate), and the Tempest style "flat/recessed top" on the Driving Controller (also arcade accurate). Plus with the slightly smaller manipulation diameters of these knobs (versus the CX-30 knobs), I was able to shift these 2 controllers a little closer together for overall ergonomics, and still achieve zero interference from one control to another, while manipulating either one. Win, win, win!

After a little internet research, it looks like Tempest Elite + for the 8-bits, allows for the use of the Driving Controller; with it's 1 button used as the in-game "FIRE" button...and the computer's keyboard spacebar is used for the "SUPER ZAPPER." Obviously not super ergonomic, and the only way that I could incorporate this into this controller would be to install a keyboard hack into this controller, for a 2nd button used with the rotary controllers...but it would only be useable on the XEGS...which to my knowledge is the only 8-bit with a detachable keyboard...and thus a connector that it could be plugged into.

According to the AA store, Super Circus AtariAge offers Joystick & Paddle control options, I didn't see any mention of the DC...did I miss something. For any version of Tempest that is either currently available, or a WIP, for either the 7800 or 8-bit, when using a Driving Controller (if/when available), how do you activate the Super Zapper (2nd button)? Is this being accounted for, and for this reason, should I add a 2nd button for use with the Paddle/Driving controls? A Paddle Controller is an analog potentiometer (adjustable resistor), with a limited range of motion (usually 270 - 300 degrees of rotation), where a Driving Controller is a digital encoder (pulse counter) with unlimited degrees of rotation. I'm sure in the realm of the universe and all things being possible...a bunch of active electronics (and possibly a programmable controller) could be installed so that an encoder / Driving Controller, could be "read" as a Paddle Controller (as well as a native Driving Controller), albeit probably not perfectly. Similar things are currently already done in emulation wherein some sort of Spinner controller (encoder based) is used/available to play both types of games (analog and digital). But for me, I'd just keep in simple, and add a Driving Controller as additional hardware. I was playing around with the layout and it should work, without causing any interference, or sacrificing the ergonomics of the Joystick or Paddle controls. Moving the Paddle Controller up on the control panel (from my original layout location), and installing a Driving Controller at -90 degrees, with a separation of 3" (center-to-center), can still offer a zero interference layout with all of the controls. The only ergonomic "negative" is the limited/lessened control panel space for hand/palm/wrist support, when manipulating the Driving Controller. But it would still be more than useable, and that much more unique with all of the available controls. As I said before, I was under the impression that Indy 500 was the only DC game, so I wasn't too worried about including it...but with all of the info/suggestions offered here, it seems like it makes sense to include one.

I wouldn't bother with Roller Controller support for Asteroids, as its "arcade inaccurate"...and serves no point. Asteroids is properly played with an all button controller, as Atari designed it: To my knowledge the ColecoVision can only read 1 Roller Controller at a time (at least in "Roller" mode), as Port 1 reads 1 axis (I believe X), and Port 2 reads the 2nd axis (I believe Y). It would only be possible as a 1 player against the computer game/scenario.

Without Roller Controller support, in "Roller" mode, any ColecoVision Missile Command-esque game, is quite simply another missed opportunity.

I agree that the Star Raiders buttons aren't supremely necessary, but as they fit into the space between the joystick and the main buttons without sacrificing any ergonomics for the main controls, I figured why not...I've never seen another controller built for the purpose of playing Star Raiders. Not that this one is going to be solely dedicated to only playing Star Raiders or anything, it just seemed like a neat idea that I could incorporate. I am aware of the Tap-A-Mole homebrew, I remember reading about it a few months ago...and it does look pretty cool. But if I was going to have a controller with 24 arcade pushbuttons, even if they were the smaller 24mm variants...it would have to be it's own dedicated controller. They wouldn't fit comfortably on this controller, especially with the Paddle below the Joystick as I currently have the controls laid out. I looked last night, and from what I found, there are hacks/versions of Asteroids, Omega Race, and Thrust+ that allow for the use of the Driving Controller. I found a thread for Death Race, but it didn't make mention of the Driving Controller (that I read) so I don't know if it was an un-advertised feature, or if a 2nd revision allowed for it or what. But considering these 3, maybe 4 games that can make use of the Driving Controller, plus Indy 500...I don't think I'd add it, simply due to the ergonomic sacrifice for other controls...if it were added. Regarding Asteroids...the proper way to play is with an all button controller, as Atari intended...thusly: For Omega Race, I'm already working on a spinner controller for the ColecoVision port, which then only leaves Thrust+, Indy 500, and possibly Death Race. If I could add a Driving Controller, in such a manner/location that it wouldn't hinder the ergonomic layout for anything else, I definitely would. But as there are a lot more paddle games that I like to play (versus Driving Controller games), I'd rather maintain a comfortable layout for it, versus sacrificing the Paddle controls ergonomics, simply to add the Driving control for a couple of games. If I removed the Star Raiders buttons, in favor of lining up the Joystick, Buttons, and Paddle in a single line, for my handed preference of Joystick (left) / Buttons (right), and Button (left) Paddle (right), they would have to be in that order from left to right...Joystick - Buttons - Paddle. But doing so, really decreases the spacing between your 2 hands when playing, and I prefer a bit more separation when possible. My standard, defacto, ergonomic controls layout that I developed is this: With this proposed controller getting bumped up to the medium sized 17" x 11.25" controller, that yields an extra ~3" between my joystick and buttons hands when playing, which is more comfortable, and again, allows enough space for the momentarily/sporadically operated Star Raiders buttons. If I were to add in the Paddle into that row/line, I would have to move the Joystick and Paddle controllers further outward (to offer no interference of one control when manipulating another), which would then diminish the amount of surface space for the support of your hands when playing. And I don't like my hands resting on, or hanging off of the edge of a controller when operating it. I know lots of people like to build controllers into the smallest/cheapest boxes possible, that allow just barely enough room to stuff the controls into, but I don't. I like to have a little room, support, and comfort when playing. Additionally, the layout idea of the Paddle controls below the Joystick controls, comes from the Atari 2600 store kiosk layout...albeit with more space and better ergonomics. And the Paddle and it's associated button are laid out to mimic Atari's Tempest cabaret cabinet's, control panel layout. The P2 controller cable for the Star Raiders buttons would be just that...a separate cable. So if I buy, and want to use an AtariVox (if it in fact plugs into the P2 port), I just simply wouldn't plug in the P2/Star Raiders controller cable...so there's no loss of AtariVox support. Thanks, I do appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts and comments.

Rapid Fire's not a bad idea...and I never think about it personally, even though I see people post about it in various forums for their controllers. I can see how with certain games, and normal OEM controllers (especially those with side buttons, or even thumb activated face buttons) having rapid fire can be a huge benefit. But with a full-sized arcade controller, and very slap-able push-buttons, I just don't know how necessary it is. Still a good idea, and something I'll give consideration to, thanks.

So you're just randomly asking for someone to make these arcade games, for the 2600, for you? Maybe try posting a request in the Atari 2600 Programming sections, or in the Wanted section in the Marketplace.

I know Buck Rogers was, so I would assume the others were too.

I assume this has Roller Controller, "Roller" mode compatibility?

So do you feel that if was a pre-assembled PCB, you would be able to then install it into your controller? Requiring a mounting hole (14mm / 9/16"), plus the soldering of the wiring? I did look at my cost for these today. In the small quantities that I ordered the parts for these 3 boards, they cost me just over $20 per board w/ components & switch, when accounting for sales tax and shipping costs. That number of course can drop when the quantities ordered is increased, down to about $12 per board, when ordering parts for a quantity of 100. Now I can't imagine 100 people wanting one of these, nor would I get too excited about the idea of building 100 of them. But if there are some people interested I could do a small batch of them, for probably around $25 for an un-assembled kit (all components included, you simply solder them to the PCB), or $35 for an assembled PCB, plus $5 shipping for First Class mail, or $10 for Priority Mail. The price could be a bit lower, depending on how many people were interested. If anybody's interested let me know, and I'm sure we can work something out. By the by, the color indicating caps come readily available in Black/Orange, Black/Blue, Black/White, and Black/Green as options.

You may be right...I think I only ever saw one Zaxxon arcade box shrinkwrapped...and the shrinkwrap was in pretty bad shape. But the DDP cassette cases were shrinkwrapped, like all cassette tapes and CDs that were once sold in stores...in a time long forgotten.

Please combine multiple selling threads, as to not hog up all of the front page real estate.