gdement

I still remember when I was playing at a friend's house, and he was showing me the "Night Driver" game which I thought was cool for some reason, probably because it made me imagine "Knight Rider". He told me he had gotten it for $5 at Target (I think, K-Mart doesn't ring a bell), and later we saw the TV commercial advertising the same sale. My mom saw the ad so my parents took the family out to buy Atari games. I didn't realize there was anything apocalyptic about these games being cleared out for $5, I was oblivious to any "crash" at the time. I just thought it was cool we were buying several Atari games in one night.

Here's a list of games I would buy today for gameplay (not just collecting): Sonic 2 - the only game on this list I don't have, but I remember it pretty well. Better gameplay than Sonic 1 and Sonic CD. Thunderforce III - my favorite implementation of the classic space shooter genre. Level select, continuous play, great sound, and fluid animation, really shows off the Genesis and its fun to play. Phantasy Star II Phantasy Star III Golden Axe Shining Darkness - not for everyone though Sega CD - (not sure this hardware is worth getting) ----------- Final Fight CD - arcade perfect, actually better. I still play this sometimes. Demonstrates what the arcade-based Genesis hardware could do with full arcade ROM size, if they had spent more time making games instead of interactive movies. Lunar: Silver Star - great game, though the voices make it feel childish Dark Wizard - it would have been better as a cartridge though You might want to see if you can find a "Power Base Converter" also, which is an SMS adapter. If you don't already have an SMS, then that unit is a compact way to be able to play SMS games. I'm not sure it will fit on the later Genesis shells though.

I never myself paid for any of my 2600 games. The first one that I remember walking into a store, picking out, and having someone buy for me was "Star Wars: Death Star Battle", but there were lots of games that mysteriously showed up before that. The first game I actually paid for was Xevious on the 7800. It was only $10 in the Sears catalog in 1987.

I finally finished "Witness" on my Apple //c just about a year ago, after it had been sitting idle for a very long time. So at ~17 years, it holds the record for the longest time to completion for any game I've beaten. I bought Zork Zero sometime in the late 80's, but I've never played it to this day because that game actually requires 2 disk drives, and I only have one. Even though it can't access both drives simultaneously, it won't let you load the game without 2 drives. If Atari had sold the keyboard attachment, it might have been interesting to see Infocom games on the 7800, free of load time. I wonder if that would have worked.

It seems that Phantasy Star II was probably rushed into production. The battle scenes in the original PS had a proper graphical background according to what kind of terrain you were in. In PS2, they just had that weird 3-D grid. That grid really looks like standin art while they were working on the graphics. It was a good game though, and a friend of mine bought his Genesis after I showed it to him.

My 7800 last had "Cosmic Ark" in it. I was showing some games to my nephew, and he seemed to enjoy that last one. I noticed the 7800 doesn't render the alien lightning gun things properly. The shots are rendered as a momentary, solid white line all the way across the screen, which extends beyond the guns where the shot is supposed to have started from. I don't have a 2600 to compare with but I don't think it used to look like that when I was a kid.

I also wonder if the extreme violence trend could be a catalyst for a crash. Game companies are already relying on the shock factor to market their games. All the true game design talent may eventually dry up, and around the same time consumers will get tired of the gimmicks. The kneejerk response from the industry will be to jack up the stupidity even further. This could all come crashing down with a glut of games that all look the same and aren't fun to play.

I just wish it had been 256KB, like the nes version was. The fact that the atari version is mysterioiusly half the size of the nes version says something about cheapness I guess.

I actually think the 7800 version is more playable than the arcade version, but from looking at the game screen it seems to me they could have made this game in high resolution. The 7800 should be able to handle 12 colors in hires - but only 6 of them would be part of a multicolor palette. There are 2 multicolor palettes available in hires so those could be used for the barrels and flames. The other 6 colors would only be available in monochrome, so you'd just have to stack some monochrome objects on top of each other as needed. The floors and ladders are single color objects anyway, so it would be Mario, DK, the girl, and her purse/umbrella being built from stacked objects. And out of those only Mario moves much.

An amendment to my previous post: I found the article about modifying a Genesis to be multi-region, and if the article is correct, it sounds like maybe none of the Genesis consoles were themselves region-locked, but the games can lock themselves on any version of the console. After reading the article, I agree with JB on this. What changed starting with the "Sonic the Hedgehog" model was the BIOS started checking the cartridge to see if it was licensed, and refused to boot unlicensed games. But there was not any region checking performed. So unlicensed games won't work on newer consoles, but the region protection is entirely up to the game. The game can determine what region your machine is in based on its video sync rate and PAL/NTSC setting. Below is a link to the article which describes how to modify a first-generation console to be multi-region. The article is listed as "Multi-Region Modification Guide": http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/genesis/ga...game/22663.html

I've never tried an import game on my system, so I don't know for certain, but I remember reading about this back in the day in a gaming magazine, probably EGM: The original "Altered Beast" system reportedly didn't have region lockout in the hardware. However, the cosmetically identical "Sonic the Hedgehog" system was somewhat redesigned and does have region lockout. It looks the same, but sold for like $150 instead of the original version's $200. If it starts up and says something like "This game produced by or licensed by SEGA", then it has regional lockout in the hardware. I don't have the latter Mark1 system so I don't know for sure what its behavior is, I just remember reading about it when it was about to come out. I think the stories that Mark1 systems aren't locked is a little misleading - some are and some aren't. I wonder if it would be possible to substitute the older BIOS into a Sonic model. I think this issue also relates to some unlicensed games that only worked on earlier Genesis units. I have the "Altered Beast" version, and it does not have any license message when you start it. I also have the Mark2 "Sonic 2" version, it does have a license message and I've also noticed the sound quality is muffled. I've never used a Mark1 "Sonic" unit.

If they do go into bankruptcy, and the kid hasn't grown up yet, then they might end up not having to pay the tuition. So somebody might have named their kid "Turok" for nothing.

I checked and made sure my screen mode is in 24-bit color, but other than that I guess it's probably beyond my control. oh well.

I recently made a palette in "The Gimp" image editor which reflects the colors available on the Atari 7800. It might also be useful to other people that want to experiment with some 7800 graphics, so I'm posting it here. My procedure was: I loaded the color test cart in MESS 0.82, copied the screen to an image file, then used the color pick tool and added each color to a palette. Hopefully the colors in MESS are decently accurate. In the process of doing this, I noticed that all of the ?E colors are the same as the ?F colors. (i.e. the brightest column of colors was just a duplicate of the column next to it) Does the 7800 really only have 240 unique colors, or is this a MESS artifact? atari_7800.gpl.zip

The original DOS version of Papyrus' NASCAR Racing was one of my all-time favorite games. The sequel, produced after Papyrus was acquired by Sierra, was a disappointment to me. Lots of flashy presentation and movies, but for some reason it didn't seem as fun to play. I've never played any of the later followups. It bugs me when large companies buy out the smaller game companies. Look what EA did to Origin - that was just sad. The best games come from small companies where the people who own it are emotionally attached to their art. Not necessarily good for business but it can lead to great games. As for bankruptcy... To get economically philosophical about it, its important in a free market for underperforming companies to be allowed to die. That's what opens opportunities for more effective companies to take their place. The size of the pie is only so big, bankruptcy is just natural selection at work. It's all part of the efficient allocation of the economy's resources. Acclaim going out of business isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as the video game market is one where startups have a chance to compete. Of course, I realize nobody's saying we should bail them out or anything.

I found at least 1 bug and fixed it, but it didn't solve the display problem. I checked the number of lines in the DLL and it added up correctly, but I padded it anyway, which changed the screen corruption but didn't fix it. The code is just a simple thing I wrote to try and get something on the screen. It initially worked, but then scope creep took its toll. The program allocates separate memory blocks for 2 display lists, 1 for each of 2 zones that get displayed. The 2nd zone is getting corrupted in ntsc mode somehow. I've tried lots of experiments but haven't figured it out. It really doesn't matter, because in a real project I would write a DL builder that packs all the display lists into a single 512 byte block of memory. This bug, whatever it is, results from a cheaply made "hello world" program that got out of hand. I doubt I'll ever bother fixing it. Thanks for the PAL/NTSC reference - it is quite useful information even though it didn't lead to a solution in this case.

Correction - xmess is running the bootrom. I just didn't realize until now that I was running the PAL version, which of course doesn't check the sig and doesn't have a logo. Having now run some code in NTSC, I've found that my display only works properly in PAL, which is kind of ironic since I'm in the US and never gave PAL any thought. Maybe my docs are written in British... Anyway, just wanted to correct that in case the "xmess not using the bios" comment sounded odd to anyone.

Thanks for the link. For some reason I missed that when I was searching the forums earlier. I tried it and like you said, it compiles easily. As it turns out, I've now discovered that the version of xmess I'm using apparently isn't running the BIOS code so I can actually test without the signature. Nevertheless, I now can generate them if needed. Thanks for your help. And I should also thank Bruce Tomlin for writing it - your efforts are appreciated.

Has anyone built a78sign on linux? I've downloaded 2 different versions of the code, neither of them compile and I'm not certain which one is the correct version to use. 14298 Aug-15-2001 8503 Aug-10-2001 The conio.h version is bigger and (reportedly) 5 days newer, but since conio is a non-portable borland thing it seems like it would have been removed from a newer version, not added to it. Anyone know for sure which of these versions is the correct one? There are various undefined functions, I could probably fix those as long as they're standard functions, but both versions need a file called nbtheory.h. I found one of these on google written by Wei Dai, but it doesn't seem to work at all and has lots of its own unsatisfied dependencies. I assume it isn't the file this program is supposed to be compiled with. Have any of you linux people found a reasonable way to get a78sign working, or does it need to be partially rewritten? I can just run a78sign under windows, but I was hoping to develop under linux. Thanks for any suggestions.

Interesting... when my parents bought us a 7800 back in 1987, the first unit we got would usually crash within a few seconds of startup. As I remember it, it would go to a blank screen after showing the BIOS atari logo. I could eventually get it to run by just trying it over and over. In light of what I now know about the whole signature check procedure, I had recently concluded that the system must have been incorrectly flunking the signature check... but was there a bad batch of Pole Position II carts? Maybe there was nothing wrong with the actual system itself. Anyway the replacement unit and cart worked fine, but I had never considered that the cart could have been the problem. As for the Proline controls, yeah they're not very sturdy. My original pair were ruined due to my siblings and I pushing the stick too hard. If you always use a light touch, and don't let kids touch them, then they'll be okay. My current pair are still working fine after many years, though I don't use them very often. I'm afraid to I prefer to use a genesis gamepad for single button games, and that's also a good thing to let kids use if you have any around.

I'd like a system similar to what they use at www.tek-tips.com . Registered users could vote on posts that they find helpful or inappropriate. This would provide the feedback needed so the system (or moderator) can automatically deal with stupid posts. It also provides a way to more accurately measure the quality, not just the quantity of people's posts. This doesn't mean we'd be voting constantly. In practice, most posts won't get any feedback. The ones that get people voting would be the really good or really bad ones. At minimum, I'd be happy with just a way to vote for inappropriate posts, and more than some number of votes would cause the post to not be counted.

I read through the first page of posts, then skipped to the 4th page, so I hope I'm not being redundant. But I think video games have had 3 distinct eras up to this point. Each era represents a fundamentally different gaming paradigm: 1st Era (classic era): Simple games which have been reasonably described as "single room" games. The gameplay scenario is repeated (often infinitely) with little variation. Difficulty is created by making the game get faster and faster or increasing the number of obstacles. Achievement is measured with an emphasis on scoring points. This style of game was perfectly tailored for the arcade. Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Joust, etc. 2nd Era (adventure era?): It could be argued that the gameplay in these games is still repetitive, but greater system resources are used to make the player feel that they are on a grand adventure. The game scenario evolves and has a feeling of complexity. Even if its just a linear side-scroller, the games still make the player feel like there is something else to explore up ahead. The NES brought us out of the crash not because they showed up, but because they introduced these new types of games to the market. Games like Super Mario Bros. and Zelda fascinated people because they felt like they were involved in an adventure. This was exciting and new. Scoring becomes irrelevant as players feel they have more significant reasons to play. Atari "Adventure" was way ahead of its time - I would place it as a 2nd era style game. These types of games were more tailored for the home but many worked well in the arcade. Most 2-D scrolling games, beat-em-ups, RPG's, strategy war games, etc. 3rd Era (3D era): 3D graphics accelerators rapidly make it practical to present everything in 3D. Gameplay mechanics change due to the 3-D environment. Controller designs also need to change in order to handle issues like camera angles and 3D movement. The games feel fundamentally different to the player, and games from the 2nd era often don't translate well to 3D. Its hard for me to articulate exactly why this is. 2D is seen as old fasioned, and so games that play best in that paradigm lose their appeal. Massive storage space allows use of movies and human actors to create a dramatic Hollywood storyline. This is often irritating to people that enjoy gameplay. Spectacular 3-D visuals diminish the player's imagination which might actually reduce emotional involvement. DOOM, Zelda:Ocarina of Time, Mario64, Morrowind (though I haven't played it), Final Fantasy 8, etc. Atari dominated the 1st era, but failed to make the transition into era #2. Even if they had released the 7800 in 1984, I'm not sure it would have sold very well. If they had picked up lots of licensees, then maybe they would have brought modern games to the system though. In 1983, I was too young to be conscious of the video game crash, but I speculate that among other things people had gotten bored. There were lots of good games but also lots of the same old thing. I remember when my friends started getting Nintendos. I had been a happy 2600 kid, but my 7800 frustrated me because it didn't have the cool new games. Sega did well technology-wise but Nintendo dominated overall. Atari's brand image worked against them as they were associated with classic games nobody wanted anymore. They couldn't have given their machines away (at least that's how it was in my middle school world). I remember my friends and I thinking the Lynx looked pretty cool, if only it wasn't an Atari. Even at the time, people thought of NES games as being in a different category from anything that came before it. The 3D transition wasn't a surprise to anybody, nevertheless Nintendo lost their dominance here. Sony has clearly dominated the 3D era in consoles, though a significant number of people opt to play the same games on their PC. There's room for more systems in the market now since the games are written using portable code. I'm guessing the 4th era will center around internet based multiplayer gaming. That's already in existence of course but it isn't the core of the video game business as of yet. If this transition occurs, I think Microsoft will probably own it.

Plus the battery as well... I'm looking at the PCB for my winter games cartridge, and it looks like it would be very crowded. I've made assumptions about what I would need based on some info I looked up about the original Zelda game: http://hem.passagen.se/flubba/download/zel...da_roadmap.html Zelda was a 128KB ROM and had 8KB RAM in addition to the 2KB system RAM. Very little of the RAM was used for saved games, so it maybe used 9KB of RAM. Of course, I wouldn't want to just duplicate Zelda, but I'm using that cart to help estimate. It sounds like I should try to see if I could fit everything in the 4KB system RAM and use passwords. Unfortunately I can't remember a single adventure game that had reasonable passwords. I had thought about using some form of compression in some of the ROM data, and decompressing it in the RAM when it was about to be used. Sounds like instead I should assume that the ROM could be 256KB or even larger if necessary and I should optimize for very small RAM usage. I see the 3 latch traces you referred to... would it just require 1 extra wire to enable 256KB addressing? If so, it sounds like 256KB ROM would be a trivial issue. This is all speculative of course, it would be a bigger project than anything I've ever completed, but I wanted to understand what the cart limitations will be before I get too serious. In any case, I think I'll start coding something and see what I can learn. I'm just glad there's people out there who understand this hardware stuff.

I discovered this site and others like it about a week ago, and I've been thinking I'd like to work on a Zelda-style game for the 7800. But I'm concerned about whether its going to be possible to put it on a cartridge. For a game like this, I think the "Winter Games" and "Summer Games" carts make the best template, since they provide 128KB ROM and 16KB extra RAM. However, I would need the RAM to be battery backed. Problem is, it appears that the largest devcarts anyone has developed are 48KB. I even read a comment somewhere that nobody has ever successfully made an EEPROM (EPROM?) cart, but I don't know if that was accurate. POKEY sound might not be possible. There aren't any games that had both extra RAM and a POKEY sound chip, and according to the "Bankswitching Guide" (which I assume most of you have seen) the 2 carts that have a POKEY implement it in such a way that it would interfere with the address space used by the extra RAM. Even if I could get by without extra RAM, it would still be needed to save games. My main concern is ROM size. How likely is it that 128KB (or even larger) devcarts and EPROM carts might be developed in the future? I'm not a hardware expert, so I'm in no position to assess it or to push that frontier. If I ever succeed in writing a game like this I'd certainly like it to be able to be put it on cartridge. The hardware gurus have reached the 48KB level, but that being the limit without bankswitching I'm wondering if they're at an impasse. Thanks for any thoughts.