82-T/A

Not to focus on the negatives, I am a huge fan of the Jaguar. But with a conversation that was sparked on the 7800 forum, it got me thinking of some of the things the Jaguar lacks. The jaguar has some good side scrollers, it has some good action games, decent fighting games, but it really lacks RPG / Adventure games. I haven't given the Highlander a chance, so I can't say for sure if it's good or not, but Towers II is pretty much the sole adventure game for the jag. I'm surprised they never came out with anything, a franchise if you will... like the Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior series. What were they thinking?

Thanks! I appreciate it! That's why I always put that link and try to push my site! hahaha... the comments I get actually make me get off my butt and go out into the garage to work on the cars. I got that Bus for SOOO cheap, and there was a little while there where there were quite a few of them in the junkyard so getting parts for them were easy. I paid $1,200 for the Bus! And it already had a new paint job, a rebuilt motor and a rebuilt transmission. Everything else was completely missing though. (No glass, seals, lights, interior, or anything). I've actually got a few other stuff in boxes. I just went on a purchasing binge in 1999-2001. Atari stuff was DIRT CHEAP on eBay, thrift stores, you name it. I've also got an Atari 2600jr in the box (sealed) the one that the jingle was "Under $50 bucks?!". I've also got a CIB (Complete in Box) Atari 5200 4-Port, and a CIB Atari 5200 2-Port. I've got an Atari 5200 trackball in the box, an XEGS CIB in the box, a Coleco in the box, an NES Power Set in the box (the power pad has never even been used), an NES Action Set in the box, an Intellevision 1 in the box, a Jaguar in the box (sealed / glued), and a few others that I'm forgetting about. But then I've got a bunch of loose stuff, 3D0, NeoGeo, NEC TurboGraFX-16 (with CD), bunch of Atari 2600s... Saturn, Master System, Genesis, blah blah... I've really got to catalog this stuff. I'm totally getting psyched. I want to play all of it now too. Half the stuff I've never even had a chance to play yet.

You know what? This is probably the best explanation I've read so far. You're totally correct. Atari was trapped in the past. They never really had the kind of competition that Nintendo provided for them at any time in their past. The games that Nintendo had weren't necessarily better (although most would probably disagree), they were just completely different. I guess it took a completely different culture than from the US and Western Europe to design different types of games that people had never really seen before. I mean, even a game like Dragon Warrior. The 7800 could have easily supported a game like this (except without maybe the save-game feature???). Dragon Warrior by Enix was a land-mark game. There was nothing out there like that on any of the other systems (Coleco, Intellevision, Atari, Magnavox). I mean, you could hardly compare "Adventure" with Dragon Warrior. All of those games were just nothing more than "Beat Your High Score" type of games. Did any Atari (other than Jaguar) ever have save game capability? I will say that many of the computer-ports to the Atari were pretty decent... like Ace of Aces, Rampage, Choplifter, etc... but man, Atari desperately needed an adventure game like that. And the Nintendo had a bunch of them... Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, etc...

no, it's been opened So my question is, can it be classed as sealed if has been opened? Sure, I can take a picture of it. I'm leaving for a business trip this afternoon and won't be back until Friday, but I can take a picture. There wasn't much that considered it "sealed". I think there was maybe a single Atari sticker or something that sealed it. All the contents are still "sealed". The controllers, the 7800 system, the Pole Position game, the antenna adaptor, etc... are all still sealed in their individual wrapping inside. the ONLY thing I took out, which I used to test, was the AC Adaptor. I had another 7800 that I wanted to make sure it was still good, and that it wasn't the adaptor, and I knew that one to be new so I tested it. I put it back exactly how it was though. All the manuals are still in the original Atari envelope, and I even have the original Video 61 sales receipt. So, I would still consider it "NIB", New In Box. Since it is... I don't know exactly what "sealed" would add to it's value any more than it being NIB. I simply opened it to put the sales receipt in it and to make sure everything was in there. I'll take some pictures this weekend and post them. I might as well take pictures of everything and catalog it on my web site. I only have car stuff on there now... http://www.PontiacPerformance.Net

Hah, damn... I'll probably just keep it then. Don't listen to Shadow, he's a true noob that continuously pretends to have a clue. How much did that one from Smith2000 go for on eBay with the four games? Wasn't it like 200 - 400? the ones that have the games attached to them are a totally different bag of fruits. They are a fair bit harder to get still in new condition like that. The only game this one has included with it was Pole Position II. Inside, it's in a cardboard sleeve, there's no fancy box. Although, I do have an unopened copy of Pole Position II also. A few people were selling literally hundreds of un-opened Atari 7800 games on eBay back in like 1999/2000. I was in an apartment, didn't have a car payment, so I had a lot of discretionary income at the time... hahah... probably should have saved more money... but oh well.

Hah, damn... I'll probably just keep it then.

Yeah, I paid $78 for it back in like 1999. It really is totally sealed and complete.

Hey guys, I'm going through all my stuff this weekend and I'm trying to decide whether or not it's worth it for me to keep some of this stuff verses selling it. I have three Atari 7800s, and one of them is BRAND NEW in the original box. I bought the 2nd to last original / complete 7800 from Video 61 like 9 years ago. The box has been opened for no other reason than to make sure everything is there (and because I was curious). I've got the original sales receipt in there from Video 61, and everything is in it's original packaging as it came from the factory. The box is immaculate with NO scratches. I actually keep it suspended in popcorn in a slightly larger box. What would something like this be worth? I'm not expecting $1000 bucks or anything, but I'm wondering if something like this is worth selling, or if I should just keep it. Thanks,

In ORIGINAL Atari shipping boxes of course! Sorry, I had to brag. If you bought anything from GoAtari back in the day, he re-used many cardboard boxes that Atari originally used to ship large quantities of games in. I've got 4 of these boxes. One of them says ATARI in big letters on the side and then says "Attack of the Killer Mutant Penguins". I'm guessing it held 40 Attack of the Killer Mutant Pengiun games for the Atari Jaguar. I keep everything in a closet in my study. I'm actually going through the closet this weekend and getting rid of stuff I don't 100% need. But, I keep all of my Jaguar and full 2600 boxes in larger boxes like that. I also use a bunch of rubbermaid containers that are stackable. For some of those boxes, you can always fold them, but I know that some of the older ones were glued (rather than just assembled). I'm not really sure WHY I have an Atari collection, I mean... I can't remember the last time I had time to play them, but... I'm so anal about how I take care of them that I can't imagine leaving them out on "display" where they would collect dust and such. I guess just having the collection is what fills that void! hahahah....

Man, that's crazy. That really makes me wonder why they even bothered? I probably shouldn't, but I consider the 7800 as one of the Nintendo's competitors (for the NES 8 Bit). I remember reading of course that the 7800 came out a LONG time ago, and they had actually released it, and then they immediately pulled it off the shelves for whatever reason. THEN the 8-Bit Nintendo came out, and then they finally re-released it... but at that point, it was basically dead. Isn't that the case? Anyway, I'm really surprised that Atari came out with the 7800 when it wasn't that much better than the 5200. Did the 7800 maybe hold more storage? Is that what the big benefit was? Of course the 7800 is newer, but it seems that the 7800 had several PC games on it. For example, Ace of Aces, Rampage, etc... they didn't have anything like that on the 5200, did they? What was the biggest defining point of the 7800 that made it an improvement over the 5200? Thanks,

Hope I don't offend anyone here, because I'm a fan of ALL Atari stuff. I've got two 7800s (with with an AUX jack on the side) and two 5200s (a 2 and a 4 port one). I haven't played anything other than my Jaguar in probably 2 years, and the last time I played my Jaguar was 6 months ago, just really busy. However, I seem to recall (correct me if I'm wrong) that the 5200 was a FASTER machine? Is this true? I mean, I'm well aware of the fact that the 7800 is the improved system. The 5200 seemed to me at least to be much more of an "arcade" system. I mean the games on that system were MUCH more like what I was used to seeing at the arcade. I've of course played Ball Blazer on the 7800 and it certainly was fast, but I seem to recall that has more to do with some fancy chip on the cartridge as apposed to the system itself? The 5200 and 7800 are BOTH 8 bit systems, correct? Did one have a faster processor?

Just curious, has anyone tried to adapt an "aftermarket" VR helmet to the Jaguar to make use of the built in programming for Missile Command 3D? I've always wanted to be able to play the 3D Missile Command with the VR helmet. I think it's pretty cool. Were there any other games that were designed to take advantage of the Jaguar VR Helmet (that supposedly never came out)?

I think they could have done even better with the flashbacks as well as they did. When you are broke its hard to spend money. Advertising was pretty minimal as a result. It would be good to see the later systems revisited in such a manner. I really want to agree with you, but the Flashback systems were a niche market for the time. At this point, with the advanced systems we have now, almost any game could be released in a bundle for one of them. For the Nintendo Wii for example, you can just download / order classic games if you want. Even for them to release a new Flashback system, it probably wouldn't sell. If you look back, those handheld games exploded in like 2001-2005, and they've pretty much all but died out now. They're getting less and less shelf space at stores, and fewer companies are making them. Jaxx was the more predominant one, and then about 30 or so other companies came out with them. A perfect example was the Intellevision guys. They came out with a handheld which included something like 100 or so of their original games. They didn't sell very well since the vast majority of the people out there don't even know what an Intellevision is. Wall Mart dropped them, and places like Walgreens and CVS Pharmacy still have a few of them in stock stashed on their shelves. But no one is buying them. I would expect that a Lynx or a Jaguar hand-held would do the same. Sure, I can pretty much guarantee that everyone on here would want one and probably buy one, as would a bunch of other people. But the expense they would have to go through to release something like this on a large scale would greatly exceed the return they might get from it. So, from a Marketing standpoint, I completely understand why they haven't released anything else (and why they probably won't). But, I'm hopeful, and I know that anything they DO release... I'll buy.

Guys, like I said, read my response. I answered the question. The stock never hit $1,200 a share. The chart and values do not take into consideration stock splits and split reversals.

Hah... I kind of killed this thread, didn't I? I answered the question though!

Hahah, I am totally not going to play this game with you. Look, you're clearly insulted, and you shouldn't be. You'll need to get over it. Wrong, not poor, but "over taxed". An average middle class earning person in the US takes home about 78% of their pay check. At the end of the year when they do their tax return filing, they typically get back another 2 percent meaning that by the end of the year, the average person takes home 80% of their total income. As for other taxes, we pay a 6% - 7% sales tax (in Europe, this is factored into your purchase price). This is the SAME for when purchasing an automobile. A BMW 3 series has a starting MSRP of $32,000 in US dollars. With tax, title, and other fees, that same price would come out to about $35,000. What would a similar car in Western Europe cost? For one, I know that, in addition to the sales tax, you pay tax based on the size of the motor, and another tax based on the weight of the vehicle. Keep in mind that the UK is much more leanient when it comes to things like this, places like Holland, France, Germany, Belgium pay significantly more tax on their vehicles than people in the UK do. Relax, it's not my intention to insult you. Fact is, Europe is taxed heavily when compared to the US tax systembecause of your social programs. I'm not stating an opinion on this, I'm just stating fact. I'm not stating whether it's wrong or right, I'm simply stating fact. I knew you were a car hobbiest, so it would make sense that you'd be a fan of your country's own marques... but apparently not? I've stated numerous facts about both the US and Europe, and then I've used those facts to express my OPINIONS as to why Europeans are clearly more enthusiastic about keeping defunct video game brands alive. In the best interest of this forum, I'm not going to argue any further, so get your last remarks in, and then someone should close this thread.

Actually I would rather hang out in Italy, beautiful women, fantastic food and they avoid paying taxes, and ignore EU rules and a bit less rain oops, generalising again Hey, sometimes you've got to be outside of the box, to see it for what it is. I'm not saying anything bad about Europe, I'm just trying to explain the reasoning why there's maybe ~5 stores in the US that support Atari / Commodore sales, and there's at LEAST that many in Germany alone.

Because Ford are in such trouble and had to unload them? Yes. But i don't see the relevance. Seriously 82-T/A its a bad idea to make sweeping generalisations about other people's countries as you have. You clearly DON'T know as much about Europe as you think you do... Stop Digging... you should let it lie... it can only lead to misunderstandings and bad feelings. I've lived in Europe for a number of years, half my family is from Europe. I'm simply giving my opinion on why I think there is more old-world support for Commodore / Atari stuff than there is here in the United States. You can choose to agree with it, or not. I'd certainly hope that no one would take my comments negatively, although it seems people have. I don't think I've said anything negative about any European country.

What percentage of your population is that? The majority of people buy Ford Focuses, Vauxhauls, Citroens, Peugeots, and other small cars (if not riding their bikes). Like I said, there are many people with discretionary incomes, but you pay insane taxes just to own one car. On the other hand, here in South Florida, every 5th car is a BMW 3 series. Out of every 10 cars I see here in Florida, (or any major city, really that has functional roads), it'll consist of BMWs, 350Zs, Jaguars, Mercedes, Porsches, Hummers, Lincoln Navigators, etc. The only reason why you see more Mercedes is because Taxi Cab drivers do NOT pay taxes on their vehicles, SO... a Mercedes or BMW sedan is common, ONLY in that respect (aside from your occasional Morris Minor). Show me where I said that Europe does NOT buy or keep up with modern technolgy. And before I go any further, England is one of the major power houses in Europe. There's a VERY GOOD REASON why England did not agree to join the common Euro currency... as apposed to the quid and the pound. England is hardly an example of "normal" Western Europe. By the way, since we're just on the subject of cars... I'm really saddened by the loss of well... ALL of the British car companies. I mean that sincerely... not as sarcasm. I'm a huge fan of Lotus cars, Colin Chapman... as well as of course, Jaguar, Triumph, MG... I don't own any, but I would if I had more room at my house. There's a local junkyard here that I visit every now and then, and believe it or not, it's actually quite common for me to see the occasional 12cyl Jaguar. There's an "H.E." Jaguar coupe with a V12 in the local yard. I've also seen two Ausin Healeys with the Lotus 907 engine, several Triumph TR-6s, and a few V8 Triumph TR-7s, plenty of MGBs... I even saw a hard top coupe MG. I've EVEN seen a Rover sedan here in the junkyard (like from the early 80s or something). I guess you saw that Jaguar and Land Rover was sold to "TaTa Motors" in India? I saw on in the red light district in Amsterdam, Holland (Commodore), and one in Vassen, Holland (Atari), and two in Appeldorn, Holland, and one in Saarbrucken, Germany (Atari Store). Look, nothing I've said was meant as an insult. You're taking it that way, and you shouldn't. Europe is older, more established, and the culture simply different. In the United States, we do everything in excess. Trends don't last as long, almost EVERYONE buys for image, and our society permits that. I love the US, so I say that with utter respect, but you know sure as s**t that most of Europe is not like that.

Not too mention utterly destroy the economy and the quality of health care. I'd rather pay forever and have a choice than pay almost nothing and wait forever and STILL not have a choice. Im a conservative too but I have my left leaning tendencies(not very many mind you but a few.) However, govt control is not one of those tendencies. Govt: Stay the hell out of my life thanks! Well, that's the thing... it wouldn't be "almost nothing", you would be paying an exorbant amount of taxes. Our taxes would go up, at minimum 6-7% in the first couple of years for the average middle class. They would quickly learn that isn't enough to pay the bills, so they would raise the taxes even more. I've worked in the medical health care industry for at least 8 years now (pathology, medical billing, and hospice) as a computer programmer. I work for the NFL now, but I still contract with one of my former medical employers. I'm very intimate with the system and fully understand all of the repercussions a system like this would have on not just the quality of health care (that's just the tip of the ice berg), but all the other aspects as well. 1 - No one in their right mind would continue to pay for additional health care if it was already being offered. 2 - With #1 being the case, you would quickly have lay-offs and the eventual Chapter 11 of dozens of health care insurance companies which would put hundreds of thousands (potentially a million) people out of work. 3 - It would have a huge effect on technogical advancement: 4 - Companies won't make a large financial investment on new technologies if the government is going to tell them how much they're allowed to charge for these investments. 5 - Medical companies like Johnson & Johnson / Cordis, all the companies that make stints, mechanical hearts, etc.. would all go out of business. 6 - #5 would lead to more jobs lost. 7 - When was the last time a major medical innovation was created in a socialist country? 8 - The degredation in health care quality is just a tip of the ice berg.

I still think it's because freedoms and democracy are thriving more than before not because they are falling the other way. If the EU was falling the other way they probably would not allow video games. That is true socialism...like the US democratic party..left wing power from the people to the govt' types. We need them...so they think...we can't make a life for ourselves with otu them...so they think. Barack? Hillary? Now that is dangerous socialism. Well, not to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, but that's not socialism. That's communism. Socialism is basically nothing more than a tax system that's set up where by it empowers the poor, at the expense of the wealthy. The hope is to make one equal upper middle class, in a type of euphoria where there's no want, or need, because everyone has what they need and want already. Unfortunately, it always ends up that the government spends the overwhelming majority of it, and rather than a perfect middle class, you literally get a massive empoverished community and a very slim 1%. Communism is JUST like that, but with the addition of either a dictatorship, or a body of government which limits the liberties and information that is made available to the public. The EU is a true socialism. The United States was formed from DAY 1 as a Democracy, since we abandoned the Monarchy. On the flip side, the EU has had to transition slowly from a Monarchy to a Socialist society. They are still predominantly a socialism, but more closer towards Capitalism on a daily basis. Pretty much everything in Europe was unionized and / or subsidized by the government. Europe went through a major recession over the past few decades and they are only now starting to really come out of it in the past 6-8 years. Truth is, without the European union, the vast majority of the countries have extreme debt and their currency is worth almost nothing. They created the EU to become a viable economic power with which to compete globally with the likes of China, the United States, etc. Most of western Europe has joined the EU, but several countries which have their own STRONG economy have refused... for example, England, and Switzerland are not part of the monetary EU. Although they ARE in the EU, they still retain their own currency. The United States on the other hand, was formed as a TRUE democractic / capitalist society from day 1. That said... we ARE slowly becoming socialist, but we are still far from becoming what the European Union is right now. Personal spending in most European families are significantly depressed. I know most of our European brothers on here would say I'm wrong, and that I don't know what I'm talking about, but the truth is that they don't even really realize since that's all they've known. For example... I make an AVERAGE income here in the US for my profession. I could go out right now and lease a BMW 330i and be able to afford the payments. Not because I am wealthy, but because the median income for a US household can afford. Even though the majority of the BMW sedans are built in Europe, most Europeans cannot afford to buy cars like that. Not because they can't afford OUR payments, but because the taxes are so damned high. There's an impact tax, which typically costs at least 1/3rd of the overall price of the car. Then registration and insurance are signfiicantly more money. Homes are not as exorbant and grandious in Europe as they are in the US. I mean, sure, they have mansions, but land is cheap in the US. (FYI, I drive a 4 cyl as my daily driver) Anyway, I consider myself a conservative too, at least in terms of fiscal conservatism. But the US is definitely not a socialist country, yet... if given the opportunity though, both Hilary or Barak would institute socialist health care systems in the US. That would immediately put us in the category of Europe.

It's not meant in any disrespect, but people living in Europe just have a very different culture than we do in the United States. I have dozens of aunts and uncles and at least 20+ cousins in Holland, Germany, France, and the UK. It's doesn't make me an expert on Europe of course, but enough to make a good comparison. I'm not saying you guys are behind, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. I'm talking about in terms of spending. In the US, the majority of people are concerned primarily with image. They'll buy a new car, not because they need it, but because they want people to see that they're successful (or at least appear so). That's not necessarily the case in most of Europe. Of course, you always have people that have lots of discretionary income, but most people don't due to the extremely high taxes.

When you look at the stock charts, you have to take into consideration what are called "Stock Splits" and "Reverse Splits". The stock charts only look at the value of the stock THEN and now, as a single entity. If you own Atari stock at $25, and they split, you then end up with TWO shares of Atari stock for $12.50 each. Those stocks might go up to $14 dollars or something giving you a total value of $28. If you were to look at the graph, it would show a massive drop in share price from one point to the next as it doesn't take into consideration the stock split. It also doesn't take into consideration buyout prices from other companies (like in the change-over from Time Warner, to JTS, to Infrogrames). There are SOME charts which do correctly display this, but most do not (like on MSN). The current stock ticker, FYI, is "ATAR". Despite the stock splits, mergers, and reverse-splits that Atari has had, they've still had a massive decline which of course only exacerbates the chart. Realisticaly, I don't think Atari stock ever went above ~$120. And that was in it's golden age in the early 80s.

I was in your SAME situation, but... 3 years older. So... I had more discretionary income. I don't mean to rub it in... but man, it was great. EB and KB Toys were selling games anywhere from $2.50 for common cartridges, to $5.00 for normal games. CDs were $12.88 and hard to find games were $8.99 (like Doom, AVP, Wolf3D, etc...). I basically got 75% of the entire Jaguar lineup for under $300 bucks with the system. I remember that at KB Toys, they were selling BRAND NEW, unopened Jaguar systems for $15 bucks. I bought three of them on one trip. I couldn't pass it up. I used to get a LOT of stuff from Go Atari too... but that was back in the day when their prices were dirt cheap. Now they're insane! Welcome to the club!

Well, despite the political stuff in your post, I think it has more to do with the culture. Europe is actually less democratic than the US is, they are actually very socialist, and in turn people usually have less money to spend. In general, most people in western Europe live a much less glamorous lifestyle. Most Europeans also don't work the same hours we do in the United States. I won't say that they don't work as hard as we do, but they typically work less hours. So they usually have more time for their hobbys. It's a completely different culture. The countries are older, more established, there's not much that's "new" to say the least. I mean, they move just as quickly as we (the US) does in terms of technology, but they aren't as quick to pick up fads. Well... maybe the Dutch, but that's because they're crazy. Most West Europeans are less likely to immediately buy the newest and greatest thing, and they hang on to and appreciate their hobbies much more. It's a completely different lifestyle and it's kind of hard to explain, it's just a different culture. Anyway, most Europeans do not have as much discretionary income as we do, so they tend to not buy the more latest and greatest things. If you go anywhere in western Europe, it's not uncommon to find small shops that sell NOTHING but Commodore 64/128 / Amiga stuff, or a shop that sells exclusively Atari stuff, or whatever. Even when you relate it to other things, like cars... Europeans are far less likely to buy a flashy car. The overwhelming vast majority of car owners in Europe are upper middle class, and it's typically something mundane. Most people still often take public transportation and / or ride bicycles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it goes a long with the entire mentality of purchases.