gamegrid2084
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Posts posted by gamegrid2084
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Thanks for the pics!
Note #1 - Don't mix VA0/VA1 boards with VA4/VA5 boards. In fact, you cannot connect VA4/5 main boards to VA0/1 power or sound boards unless you break or modify the connector/port. The same goes the other direction, you cannot connect VA0/1 main boards to VA4/5 power or sound boards. The connectors & ports have plastic rails that are different (and they are different for a reason).
C39 negative does go to ground, you are correct.
A question:
1) You say that you have to "put the cartridge in a specific position" for the game to work. I'm not sure what you mean. The cartridge can only go in one position. Can you explain exactly what you mean? If you mean that sometimes the cart works and sometimes it does not, then that is pretty normal for a GG system that has trouble reading carts. Many GG users know that you sometimes have to put a cart in and take it out a few times for it to work. This is not normal (usually dirty pins on the cart or dirty cart slot on the GG), but it's common.
Regarding the power board, no GG has a 33uf 35v in that position. So, you are correct that it is wrong. There are also many other components missing.
Here is a working VA5 power board and the cap values:
You are missing a few things:
My first suggestion would be to get your VA5 power board working (or find a replacement VA4/5 power board). But, I see that you are missing some specific components that may make fixing it very difficult.
If you're using a VA0/1 power board with a VA5 main board, then it would probably be too difficult to debug over the forums. Although the VA0/1 power board probably delivers the same power from the same pins, there are some differences (otherwise Sega would not have made the connectors/ports different).
I have encountered some GGs that have started up fine and then the screen gets more and more white. In some cases, replacing the sound board worked out. In others, the issue was with bad power. Other cases were unique...
Try disconnecting the sound board completely (see what happens and if that changes anything).
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14 hours ago, icer22x said:You're not going to believe this.
I was thinking the static I was getting was strange... esp. with no game in. I took out the soundboard and reflowed everything on it.
Now I am getting picture AND perfect sound...
Edit: So I think my cart slot was corroded because games are iffy. Any tips on the best way to clean this?
Re: cleaning the cart slot. I use some special foam swabs that I put DeoxIt on and then slide the swabs into the cart slot (they are large and flat swabs from Amazon). If you think it's corrosion (and not just a loose cart slot), you might be able to use a credit card or something, wrap it in some very fine cloth (or paper towel) and use that like a cart slot cleaner (with DeoxIt or maybe alcohol). If you use a paper towel, though, some fibers may get caught in the cart slot and that wouldn't be good.
On the other hand, it may be a loose cart slot. I have a GG with perfect pins in the cart slot, but it takes a few times for some games to be recognized because the pins don't always make good contact with them. Putting in and taking out a cart is noticeably "easier" on this particular GG than on most others where I feel a lot more resistance putting in/taking out a cart. I don't know any easy way to make the cart slot "tighter."
I'm guessing that you've already cleaned the games...
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Sure, I'm happy to try to help. Post whatever info you can (anyone).
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LOL and that's great! I was just about to send the response below. But when you said something about the sound board, I remembered why it was an issue that I raised before. I had an entire system fail because of 1 SMD cap on the sound board. For me it was C4 (which looks fine on yours), but it messed my whole system up. This is good to know because this is now the 2nd time that the sound board has caused some serious problems on a GG. In fact, I have one GG that I'm working on now that has some "strange" problems. I might just reflow the whole sound board and see what happens...
---- nothing to see here, move along ----
Thanks for the pics. Everything seems OK. On the right side of the main board, I do see something that I haven't seen before - EM1 & 2 are blue, the rest are black, and EM4 seems to have a chunk bitten out of it. I have never seen a mix of the EM chips (like blue & black), but who knows... However, those are only related to the GG to GG com link and shouldn't really affect anything else (but they might because the link is I/O).
The serial number tells me that it's a TMSS system. That means that a blue screen saying something like "licensed by Sega..." should pop up at the boot of any game. This is important because this blue screen would be the first thing to show up even if the GG can't read the game correctly. That is, you could put a game in and see the blue license screen, but it still may not work. So, if you don't see the TMSS screen, then it's really not reading games at all.
This points to a more serious problem like the actual main chip on the board or one of many small components and circuits that you'd have to check individually. But, it could also just be some cold solder joints on the cart slot (however unlikely). This is less fun to check out, but it might help to check those out. You'd have to unscrew the 4 screws on the backlight reflector and carefully fold the screen over so you can see the cart pins on the screen side. I would reflow each of them just to be sure. Sometimes cold solder joints don't look so bad on the outside. (Again, this is highly unlikely the cause).
Having said all that, I have never come across a GG that was "dead" because of cold solder joints, so I don't want to give some false hope here. If you've recapped the boards, there doesn't seem to be any corrosion due to previous bad caps, and the main board looks OK, I think the problem may be beyond the general fixes...
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If #1 above produced the brightness levels as I mentioned, then #2 above is telling me that you don't have a white screen. From #2, it appears that you are only seeing white with the brightness way up. What I mean is that if you took a working game gear, put a game in, then set the brightness to a good level ... then powered off the GG, took the game out, and powered back on (with no game), you should see a black-ish screen. So the problem is not "I have a white screen when I power on for all games," it's really "I have a black or blank screen when I power on for all games." Why the difference? Well, if you had a truly white (pink, green, etc...) screen with the brightness level not maxed out, then that indicates that the GG is trying to read the game but can't fully get the info it needs to boot the game (usually a bad connection to the cart's pins). If you have no white (or solid color) screen, then the GG isn't even recognizing that there is a cartridge in the slot. That's different from worn down GGs where their pins don't always connect to the cart and you'd get a white or solid color screen at normal brightness levels.
My guess is that the GG doesn't even see the game as being inserted. This could be many things... I saw you opened a thread about this before and have a picture of the unit. However, I can't really see the detail up close that well (it's out of focus at that high resolution). Could you send more? I'd like up close and focused views of the main board. You could do the left side and right separately, if that helps. Also, you can send them directly to me or post them here, either way is fine.
Other things to check and a question:
- Double check that the cap C1 is the correct value (33uF 6.3v or higher [voltage]).
- If you can, check that the voltage from C1 + terminal to ground is 5v (or thereabouts). C1 provides the 5V line to the cartridge slot and so to the cart itself.
- What's the serial number on the back of this GG? I see it's a 1-ASIC system, but I want to know if it's also TMSS or not (that blue screen that comes up before games). The SN on the back is a good indicator.
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It is indeed connected to pin 40. The schematic (and a quick scrub on the board I'm currently working on) doesn't seem to show that it connects anywhere else. I also had this happen (loss of the T10 pad). I ended up soldering it directly to pin 40 and everything worked fine. It does not appear to affect any other circuit (at least when doing a McWill mod). You may have a little alternative if you only lost the T10 pad. You could carefully scrape off the green soldermask above the remaining trace from T10 to pin 40 and you might have an easier time soldering the wire to that exposed trace.
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Sure, I'd be happy to help.
Definitely do the power board recap before any other troubleshooting. Also make sure you're using a known good power supply (OEM Sega would be best) and that you've tested it on another system (if you can) ... or just use batteries. You'd be surprised what really weird things can happen in a system if the power board is not providing what the system expects.
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I found a variant of the Sega Game Gear front shell that I've never seen before. There are factory molded "holes" or notches on the left side of the d-pad. At first I thought these were cracks or other wear, but after seeing a few other GGs that had the same thing and opening it up, it's clearly intentional. Out of about 100 GGs I've gone through, I've encountered about 8 of these. The d-pad is not different from any other GG and I have no idea why they would do this. Does anyone have one of these and does anyone have any idea why they would do this? It doesn't appear to affect the usage of the d-pad in any way (good or bad)..
-gamegrid2084
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Fixed Game Gear #1 - clicking sound. Works perfectly now. What it was and what I did:
I went ahead and did a test that you already did - to confirm that it was the main board and not the recapped sound board. I put in a recently recapped sound board that I knew was working and there was no sound (very, very low sound), not even clicking. Then, poking around I found this:
#1 should look like #2, that is, it should be a small hole with some metal around it. This hole connects this trace to the other side of the circuit board. It also happens to connect to ground for many components. Since it was damaged, the negative end of capacitor C42 and the rest of the circuit on this side was not connected to ground. So, I ran a wire from the negative end of C42 to another known ground point. That fixed it.
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Ok. Again, I'd be happy to take a look at the Game Gear. I like tracing down problems and I'd be happy to tell you what's the issue if I find it, just message me if interested...
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13 minutes ago, mmbe said:Forgot to mention the system has a LED back light mod. The screen flicker is like a candle flame shimmering or pulsing. It stops (or becomes fainter) when you turn the brightness down. The screen is white with the brightness wheel turned up. Believe I now have it set to the middle setting as you suggested.
Ah. Well, with the mod and sound board that you know is not working, there are too many variables to accurately diagnose the problem. I can tell you that, on a proper LED backlight mod, you should not see the candle flame shimmering flicker that you are describing. However, since many things seem to point to the cart slot, the link in #13 is an OK thing to try. Not the entire link instructions, but just the reflowing of the solder joints on the cart slot pins.
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Ok. There are several tests to try. Some will seem completely unrelated, but they will help. Also, the flickering is interesting. Can you describe it in more detail? Does it flicker on and off like if the backlight is going off completely, or are you talking about lines on the screen or something else?
1) Are you really seeing a white screen or are you just seeing white because the brightness is all the way up? When the brightness is all the way up, it will always look white (or very close). When the brightness is down, it should look black but with a little green tint. When the brightness is in the middle, it should look black (black for a Game Gear). I would try this: With no cartridge in the system, turn the brightness all the way up so the screen is white. Then, lower the brightness just until the screen begins to look black, but not at the very lowest brightness setting. What happens? If you have to turn the brightness all the way to 0, then you are seeing a true white screen from the system. If you can turn the brightness somewhere in the middle and see a black screen, then good, keep it there.
2) Once you've done #1 with the brightness turned down to a black screen but not all the way down to 0, try a bunch of games. Do you see black screens on each game or do you see a screen with color or white (pink, green, and white are all common)?
3) When you power on the system, turn the volume up to 100%. Do you hear a slight hissing from the speakers (try headphones, too). You should hear something both with a game inserted and with no game. All of these handheld systems have some sort of interference and you should hear some slight noise from the speaker or headphones.
Let's start with these and we'll go from there.
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Well, like I said, I probably would get a broken Game Gear before swapping out SMDs. Just use the main board from a broken one and move your new caps to that one and use this GG main board as a parts board. I can't tell exactly from the picture, but it looks like the soldering near #1 and your new cap are all shorting together.
At this point, i would probably suggest not trying to transfer or replace any more SMDs. If you'd like, I'd be happy to take a look at the board. Message me if you're interested.
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Well, without actually getting into the GG to see what could be wrong, it's really tough to diagnose this kind of problem. On the Game Gears that I have worked on, the white screen you are describing (with the brightness knob working) happens when there is no cartridge in the GG. It also happens when the GG does not think a cart is inserted, even when one is. Usually this means a bad cart, but could also mean a bad cart slot on the GG, or even an internal component failure. You mentioned that you've tested the games on another GG, so bad carts can be ruled out. The other two possible issues are very hard to narrow down without a bunch of little tests to figure things out. In any case, even if it were a bad cart slot or some internal component failure, you'd probably need to have someone repair it (unless you are up for tinkering around inside your Game Gear). I'd be happy to run down the list of tests that I would do, if you're up for it...
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Well, then that would make me think that the issue is leaning more towards a capacitor or other issue and not the cart slot. I'd say it could be a brightness wheel issue, but if you don't hear any sound when games are in then it's probably not that. Does the brightness wheel do anything? If it's a white screen and the brightness wheel works fine, then you should be able to turn the brightness down all the way and make it black or, at least, darker. If not, then that does inform the problem a bit more...
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Besides the cartridge slot possibly not being good anymore, it's possible that the 8 year old recap could have started to develop cold solder joints. If new, good caps were used, I doubt that the caps are bad now. Cold solder joints can develop for a number of reasons and, besides any obvious visible signs, their is not any good way to detect cold solder joints. The solder joint could look nice, shiny, and normal on the outside, but have internal cracks = bad.
If you're up to some solder work, I'd reflow the solder on the replaced caps and see what that does. There's not too many of them anyway.
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Yeah, everything you need to know is in the service manual at console5.com:
https://console5.com/wiki/File:Service_Manual_-_Game_Gear_VA1.pdf
Specifically for those 4 caps, they are all 1uF 16V. But you'd have to remove them to properly test them. With broken Game Gears so cheap, I'd get another broken one before I started removing SMDs to test them. I'd trace, reflow components, and check resistor values, but beyond that I'd make it a parts unit.
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Well, I would test what I can going back from the sound connector (using the schematics as a guide). Resistors would be easy to check, caps would be too hard because some of them are very low capacitance (pF) and, besides having to remove them to test, most multimeters wouldn't be able to detect their value. In this working-backwards order, I would test and reflow components as I go and then test the GG to see if/what happens.
Another reason I think someone may have previously messed with this GG for the exact same reason you are experiencing is that pins 1 & 2 of the little IC4 are intentionally shorted with solder (unless you did this). Again, they should be shorted, but that's not what the factory would do.
In any case, the 4 capacitors I marked before are the first in line to be checked.
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Thanks for the image. I can see that this is a VA1 single ASIC board. I see the caps that you have replaced, but did you do anything else on the board (like with the other, smaller components)? It appears that someone has had a go at this board before (which could make this a lot more difficult). I put arrows on your image showing what looks to be someone tinkering with this GG before. First, there is a blob of solder on C35 (the top arrow). That capacitor has nothing to do with sound, it helps control the d-pad "right" direction. Second, one side of both R10 and R11 look to be shorted together (bottom arrow). R10 and R11 are supposed to be shorted on that side, but this does not look like factory soldering. Those are only 2 examples of what looks like someone else tinkering with this board. The other image is one of my similar boards. It's not recapped, but you can see where the components are very aligned and look to be soldered by the factory and not otherwise touched. For all we know, the previous person had the same problem and was trying to fix it.
Having said that, nothing stands out as obviously bad on the board. In this case, I would test everything (check the resistors, components, voltages, and connections near the small IC4, the one with the numbers 358 on it, lower right of your image). I'm not sure if the clicking is the only problem or just an additional problem, but one thing at a time... I put 4 red dots on 4 capacitors of which I would reflow the solder connections. Working back from the sound board connector, those are the first 4 caps that the Left and Right channels interact with. It's unlikely that this will do anything, but it's good to be sure of certain things as you work back from the sound board connector.
The website console5.com has good Sega Game Gear schematics to go by if you want to really get into tracking the problem down.
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As a person who has done many McWill screen installs, you should always replace the capacitors in your Game Gear before installation. And then, as McWill says, check the voltages! If not, you risk damaging the new screen.
If you start your GG with no cart and you see a black screen, but then put a cart in and see a white screen, it is almost always that the Game Gear is not reading all of the pins of the cartridge. This could be a cartridge issue, but if it happens with many carts, then it's a GG cart slot issue.
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No, that would be way too time consuming. It'd be cheaper to get a new broken Game Gear and recap that one. I'm suggesting reflowing the solder joints on the SMD caps near the sound board. If you send me a picture of your current main board that is not working (and a close up of the sound area like my pic), I can tell you where to start. Not all those caps have anything to do with sound, but some do.
Plus, many of the SMD ceramic caps are less than 1nF. So, unless you have a really good multimeter that can measure in the pF range, it would do you no good.
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The SMD caps are usually light brown, beige, terracotta colors. The SMD resistors are black and have numbers on them (but it seems like the caps are what you need to look at). Pics attached. The pictures are from a VA1 twin ASIC Game Gear, yours might be different. But that's the general idea. They are all labeled with C##, like C79, C25, etc...
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It could be. Usually, these circuit boards have the components near the system they are controlling. So, the sound stuff would be near the sound connection, and the video stuff would be around the screen, etc... (when possible). If the clicking is regular, then it really does look like a bad cap or solder joint (not one you replaced unless you see some issue). Corrosion is caused by many things but for the electrolytic capacitors, it's obviously the fluid. Ceramic caps shouldn't have corrosion around them, but may have some form of oxidation. I don't think the ceramic cap is bad, but it could be. I'd start by reflowing any cap that looks bad and even the ones that look good. Cold solder joints do not always look bad from the outside. Sometimes they look perfectly fine, but have internal cracks, etc...
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Ok, so if both working and non working sound boards produce the same problem, then you're right it's probably the main board that's the problem. Low sound has usually been an electrolytic capacitor issue, but it may be one of the ceramic SMD caps. The clicking is interesting. Are the clicks regular? That is, do they sound like they are 1 second apart (or 1/2 second or anything regular)? If they are regular and not random, that sounds like a capacitor wave (charging and discharging) and the clicks you hear are when the capacitor is probably at full charge and releasing... I'd also wonder if the "clicks" are just the audio at full volume for a fraction of a second. That would make it harder to tell if the clicks are random because if it's what I'm describing, you would hear the clicks during normal game audio, but not when the game has no audio or low audio.
One thing I'd definitely do is to reflow the solder joints on the main board connector cable (that goes to the audio board) ... just to rule that out.
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No Picture on Recapped Sega Game Gear
in Classic Console Discussion
Posted
Actually if I said that, I was wrong. If no game is in the system, then you would not see the blue screen, you would only see a blank screen (white, black, depending on the brightness setting). What I meant was that you potentially can see a blue screen even if a game is bad. That would indicate some pins connecting/working and some not. So, using an unreadable game as an example, you might boot up to see the blue screen, but then a blank or solid color screen after that ( = bad game/pins/etc...).
Actually, this is great advice. I had a SegaCD Model 1 doing some crazy wacky things. It turned out to be a cold solder joint somewhere on the power board (50+ components, mostly small SMD caps and resistors). After reflowing every component on the board, everything worked fine. Cold solder joints can look perfectly fine from the outside, but still be bad on the inside (those are the worst).