carmel_andrews

Could be of interest if i ever get back into playwhatsitsname emulation, since i lost at least 2 sets of playwhatsitsname iso's when 2 HD/s died on me (in each case we are talking over 250 different games and from sites i believe are no longer up)

You can replace dixons with curry's (or possibly rumbelows/lasky's, if you remember them) Would a 4k atari basic program take the same amount of mem in say TB or basic xl/xe Am i right in thinking that there was an a800 version of TB as well as the XL/E version

my point as made in the first paragraph of post 1, that at present because of the preferred business model (in the main) used by the retro platform market/emulation market is the ‘free to download’ model, unless someone can point me to a successful or emerging site or sites for the homebrew developer/author or publisher within the retro platform market/emulation market that allows the publisher/developer etc to upload content and that downloaders have to pay for that content, i.e. ‘the paid for download’ and split the sales/profits between the download site andthe original publisher/developer, this service in that context does not exist yet, therefore so far as the present homebrew developer/publisher etc market is concerned that opportunity does not exist yet, which means that they (the homebrew developer/publisher) are pretty much forced to give their content away for free Since the type of service i suggested in post one doesn’t exist and given the ‘preferred business model’ by the retro and classic platform/format market and the emulation market as already stated, the homebrew community (i.e. developers/authors/publishers) don’t have that choice or opportunity since it isn’t one that available to them, the only choice they have that’s available to them (should they want to make available their software creations/content) is GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE Before anyone brings up 'star roms’, unless i am mistaken that site only focused on the coin op/arcade emulation market and if i recall correctly it only had a handful of coin op companies supporting said site (going from what i recall of it in the early part of the decade just gone) It’s not the job of the developer/publisher to create the ‘paid to download’ market their job is only to support/supply the market or that market with new product or content, it’s the job of the market itself, i.e. the consumer and the existing market infrastructure to put in place the market for ‘paid for download’ services If we look back at the beginnings of iTunes and what was there before, firstly there were other ‘paid for download’ service available as well as iTunes, but like the ‘Star Roms’ example they didn’t have the ‘critical mass’ of producers/publishers/artists on board, since these other sites were counting on other MP3 players being successful, Apple came successful, since they had both a hardware platform and also a software platform to support the hardware Apple were making Apple as well as having the ‘critical mass’ of producers/artists and publishers on board, they also had the consumer on board, since they had a legal download service where the original content provider got their fair share and also the consumer got a legally downloadable product that was just as good as what was available on the free services or illegal download sites and more to the point they (the consumer) had purchased that content for less money than if they’d acquired the same content via more traditional means Essentially Apple changed the attitude of the consumer in regards to downloadable music content, i.e Apple were saying that downloadable music content is no different to going into a music shop and buying a cd, LP or vinyl/music tape, point being that you wouldn’t just go into a shop and pick up a cd or LP etc. and walk out without paying (whilst I know that does happen in a minority of cases, it’s certainly not the norm) so why should you the consumer be effectively doing that by downloading music content from the illegal or free music sites That is the point Apple were making with iTunes, since music downloads is no different to buying a cd/music tape or LP/Vinyl etc, music content isn’t free since it costs people money in order to get that content to you Hence my point in asking the question posed by the subject thread in the first place Here’s the point from another angle I think it is fair to say that thanks largely to emulation, it provided a means of additional distribution mediums for the homebrew market to channeling their creations/content to, it also gave the impetus for the homebrew market to creating more product/content since emulation was available on a variety or numerous formats/platforms etc, not only that, lest we forget that new media formats used by the classic/retro platform market (i.e. usb stick/cf and sd cards) rely on and are only compatible with the emulation format, i.e ATR/D64/ADF/MSA etc What if we didn’t have emulation (and related technologies/formats etc) or that it simply didn’t exist as a concept let alone a market, remembering of course that the new media formats used by the classic/retro platform market are based on emulation formats Here’s the question, how would one go about acquiring new software for this or that retro platform if emulation didn’t exist Simple fact, the only way one would be able to buy new software for this or that retro platform would be TO BUY IT….THAT IS BUY AS IN “TO PAY FOR SOMETHING” Just to remind people of course, back in the day (unless we were pirates or engaged in pirating activities) didn’t we all go out to the software shops/stores or wherever they were selling new software for our games system or computer and go an BUY (as in TO PAY FOR) that software content Now tell me this, if we didn’t have emulation, would there be as active a homebrew scene (without emulation) as we have now and without emulation (which means no emulation formats) how would the homebrew market get their content/product to the market The answer to that question lies in the point made in the previous paragraph….i.e. we would have to PAY FOR and BUY that content Yet the fact remains as pointed out in post 1 that the majority of content available in the homebrew market is free to download, remembering of course that the homebrew market doesn’t have a choice or opportunity to provide paid for download content since the market hasn’t created that opportunity/possibility or platform for it Here’s the other point, If we actually had to buy software back in the day for our particular games machine or computer and that without emulation the only way the homebrew market would be able to get their content or product to the consumer would be for the consumer to purchase or buy it (as in to pay for that content/product), why are we not prepared to pay to download the same sort of software now given to us by the homebrew market via some emulation site or classic or retro platform site/service After all, it’s still software; it’s still probably the same game or program, why are we treating software downloaded from some classic platform or emulation site differently to say a homebrew dev/pub. posting out to Mr/Missus consumer a tape disk or cartridge with exactly the same program on that medium Unless of course people are saying that the quality of the current homebrew software market isn’t up to the quality standard as per the software we actually bought way back when and therefore we shouldn’t have to pay for that software, since it isn’t up to that quality standard Looking at it another way, how would one go about getting music content if the web didn’t develop like it has done, simple…our only option would be to go out and buy that music content, and similarly if we didn’t have emulation, the only way we would be able to obtain or acquire new software content for this or that retro platform would be to buy it BUY AS IN TO PAY FOR SOMETHING Therein lies the problem and that’s why the mainstream market simply won’t take the retro/classic platform market seriously and certainly won’t see it as a legal, legitimate and commercially viable market, since the rise and success of the emulation market, which to a greater extent makes up the majority of the retro/classic platform market now (merely in regards to content available) has given the retro/classic platform market a very big CREDIBILITY problem which that market simple has not managed to and probably will never manage to shuck off, that is because of the preferred business model created by the emulation market (as previously mentioned) I recall that one of the headings of one of the forum sections on this site is called ’COMMUNITY’, what does that mean or entail exactly, if that means that everyone is equal within the community and that everyone makes an equal contribution, if the latter is so, then why are we treating one part of the community (the software makers), different to another part of the community (the hardware makers), if everything and everyone in the community is equal, then perhaps we should be treating both the hardware and software makers the same way, i.e. if we have to buy the hardware, we also have to buy the software FOR THOSE THAT DON’T UNDERSTAND OR COMPREHEND THE WORD/TERM ‘BUY’, IT MEANS ’TO PAY FOR’ Then again, since the attitude expressed here is one of ‘let the status quo remain as it is’ (i.e. the preferred business model created by the emulation market for obtaining homebrew software), then perhaps we don’t have that COMMUNNITY that we claim to have, since we are treating one part of the community differently from the other part Or could it be that ‘community’ is just another one of those words (like LOVE) that gets horribly overused and banded about to the point where it simply has no meaning or very little meaning If we are that ‘community’ we claim that we are, why aren’t we supporting that community by buying and paying for the produce/products that community creates After all, how would human history have turned out if we didn’t create ‘the great silk road’, which for those that don’t know their human history, led to the development of trade and business? Let’s support our homebrewers, I’m not saying they’re going to make bucket loads (never said that in the first place and i don’t understand why others were inferring and implying that I did) I merely said ‘making money’ as in making some money, a little money, any money or just enough money to recoup what they invested or spent in getting their product/content to us in the first place AND WE DO THAT BY CHANGING THE ATTITUDE OF THE CONSUMER IN THE CLASSIC/RETRO PLATFORM MARKET; after all it seems to have worked to a greater extent in the online music market, so why shouldn’t it work for the classic and retro platform market If we are this ‘community’ we speak of (and now I am referring to the whole classic/retro platform market as well as the emulation market) let’s act like this community and invest in the talents/skill sets that reside within the confines/realms of this ‘community’ In other words, let’s put a stop to this ‘something for nothing community’ attitude and give something back to the homebrew community/market I can’t finish this post without referring to the individual who expressed the sentiment (visually) of ‘I am not reading that load of shit’ as well as the subsequent individual who either endorsed or supported the same sentiment (i.e quoting from the original poster) Unless I am clearly missing something, which I probably am, the point of both individuals’ posts was for what possible purpose exactly It begs the question, since they said ‘that load of shit’ (to which I guess they refer to post 1and duplicated post), what was the point of commenting in the first place if, as both individuals said ‘it’s a load of shit’…KIND OF CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES THERE, AREN’T YOU

I accept that it’s up to the homebrewers themselves, whether or not they wish to give their software creations away (i.e. free to download) or if they want to charge people for their software creations (i.e. paid for download, etc) However having looking into this issue somewhat (focusing largely on the classic or retro hardware platforms, i.e. computers, gaming systems, handhelds etc.) I am lead to understand that less then 10 per cent of the ‘homebrew’ market is PAID FOR CONTENT After all, look at it this way, since we are expecting (In the main) for homebrewers to create and publish/develop their software content for free (i.e they won’t get paid anything) how would you like it if for the same period it takes a homebrewer to come up with one piece of software, you were asked to work that same period of time in your work or job FOR FREE, remember, like I said, in the main, that is what we are expecting these homebrewers to do, I think you would agree with me that in both case and situations that wouldn’t be fair Then a little idea came to mind thanks largely to Apple and their iTunes’s service The idea was that the various and all classic retro platform web sites and services (including emulation and ‘ROMs’ sites/services) come together to set up a central ITunes like service so that homebrewers can upload their software creations (be it games or non games) and that for a nominal fee per download, people can download that software for their retro hardware (so long as the downloader knows how to reverse the emulator image back into that hardware original media format and has the means/tools for doing so) or emulator The way the service would work is that those websites that are part of the iTunes like network, have the links for the homebrew software (for this or that retro hardware platform/format) on their site/service, once payment has been received (since you have to pay before you download) the site that the downloader is visiting then clicks on the link for the download and the central iTunes like service will download that file (or files) to the downloaders preferred system or device To limit the possibility of people them re uploading the same files to filesharing places and torrent places, a sell back system will be put in place, where the downloader can ‘sell back’ the downloaded software at a later date for a nominal fee or get credit of future downloads, the idea is that if the downloader is able to sell back the software they downloaded or get credit of future downloads just by selling back the software, it removes or reduces to some extent the need to re upload that software onto to filesharing places and torrent places An additional way to limit/restrict downloaders then re uploading that content on to filesharing places and torrent places and selling it on ebay/amazon/gumtree/CL etc. and similar is the following Firstly all homebrew developers have to submit a CRC/SHA identifier for each piece of software they develop/create Secondly all sites part of the iTunes like network has to attach unique encrypted serial numbers to each software download Both the encrypted serial numbers and CRC/SHA’s for that downloaded software is then put into a database which is given to all emulator developers/authors for incorporation into their emulator (very similar to the way good tools/tosec works) Each time someone uses a homebrew software with an emulator the emulator will search the database to see if that software being used complies with the information held on the database file (i.e. serial number and CRC/SHA identifier, if it doesn’t comply the software can’t be run, if it does comply the software will continue to load and run on the emulator If downloaded software is ‘sold back’ to either the central iTunes like service or the site that bore the original software download link, that site will simply remove that software serial number and remove that serial number entry from the database issued to emulator authors/developers, this is so that if people have copies of this software that was sold back and use it with emulator, because the serial number details were removed the game or software won’t be useable on that emulator since the information held on the emulator database file won‘t comply with the serial number on the software Obviously each time you use that or this emulator, you would need to be online for the initial executing of the emulator so that the emulator can download the updated database file The thinking here is that this method of software validation will remove/reduce the possibility of people reuploading that software onto filesharing and torrent places as well as selling that software on ebay/amazon/gumtree/CL etc and similar I accept that is won’t stop all of the homebrewers efforts from being downloaded from those sites or sold on on ebay/amazon/gumtree/CL etc and similar but it should restrict or limit that possibility in a majority of cases At the end of the day if this service succeeds everyone wins since, the site that bore the software download link the downloader used gets a percentage of the download cost, as does the central iTunes like service and most importantly the homebrew developer gets a percentage as well the consumer wins since they get legally downloadable content that they can use with emulators and give something back to the developer/author of that program/software also it will open the classic/retro platform market to renewed commercial 3rd party software development, since those developers/authors or publishers active in this market will get getting money for their software creations and if they are making money from their software creations won’t that just incentivise or motivate them to continue support that particular retro/classic platform (and apply that to homebrewers working on other retro/classic platforms) As well as being able to download the emulator version of that homebrew software, those sites part of the iTunes like service network, will also be able to sell physical software versions in either original format (I.e. tape/disk/cart/CD) and since more and more retro/classic platforms are new supporting new media formats (NMF’s) like USB sticks/CF/SD cards and similar, sites and services allied to the ITunes service network will also be able to sell NMF versions of the same software which means the homebrew developer can earn even more money from his software creations as they will be available on multiple media formats Another benefit regarding NMF’s is that if a developer/publisher is creating the same game or software on a variety of retro/classic hardware platforms, rather then release each version on a on a seperate NMF (i.e same game on each retro platform but on separate usb sticks or cf/sd cards), why not release all the versions of that game or software on the same NMF (i.e same game on each retro platform but on the same stick or cf/sd card), it saves on distribution and it saves on productions and manufacturing costs and also maximises sales for that one game or software You could expand that idea further by having different games or software from various different retro platforms on the same usb stick cf/sd card, again, you save on distribution, manufacturing and production costs and you further maximise sales of each game or software If this was implemented in this fashion the possibilities are endless since it would to a large extend open the classic/retro platform market to renewed commercial 3rd party software development and possibly gain interest from mainstream developers and publishers After all how many sites out there on the interweb are engaged in the retro/classic platform market and how many sites out there on the interweb are engaged in classic./retro emulation as well as classic/retro software images sites, in think in both cases we could be talking about the 10’s of 1000’s not counting the 100’s of 1000’s of people that congregate either periodically or frequently to those sites, no need to re-invent the distribution wheel, we already have that in place

I accept that it’s up to the homebrewers themselves, whether or not they wish to give their software creations away (i.e. free to download) or if they want to charge people for their software creations (i.e. paid for download, etc) However having looking into this issue somewhat (focusing largely on the classic or retro hardware platforms, i.e. computers, gaming systems, handhelds etc.) I am lead to understand that less then 10 per cent of the ‘homebrew’ market is PAID FOR CONTENT After all, look at it this way, since we are expecting (In the main) for homebrewers to create and publish/develop their software content for free (i.e they won’t get paid anything) how would you like it if for the same period it takes a homebrewer to come up with one piece of software, you were asked to work that same period of time in your work or job FOR FREE, remember, like I said, in the main, that is what we are expecting these homebrewers to do, I think you would agree with me that in both case and situations that wouldn’t be fair Then a little idea came to mind thanks largely to Apple and their iTunes’s service The idea was that the various and all classic retro platform web sites and services (including emulation and ‘ROMs’ sites/services) come together to set up a central ITunes like service so that homebrewers can upload their software creations (be it games or non games) and that for a nominal fee per download, people can download that software for their retro hardware (so long as the downloader knows how to reverse the emulator image back into that hardware original media format and has the means/tools for doing so) or emulator The way the service would work is that those websites that are part of the iTunes like network, have the links for the homebrew software (for this or that retro hardware platform/format) on their site/service, once payment has been received (since you have to pay before you download) the site that the downloader is visiting then clicks on the link for the download and the central iTunes like service will download that file (or files) to the downloaders preferred system or device To limit the possibility of people them re uploading the same files to filesharing places and torrent places, a sell back system will be put in place, where the downloader can ‘sell back’ the downloaded software at a later date for a nominal fee or get credit of future downloads, the idea is that if the downloader is able to sell back the software they downloaded or get credit of future downloads just by selling back the software, it removes or reduces to some extent the need to re upload that software onto to filesharing places and torrent places An additional way to limit/restrict downloaders then re uploading that content on to filesharing places and torrent places and selling it on ebay/amazon/gumtree/CL etc. and similar is the following Firstly all homebrew developers have to submit a CRC/SHA identifier for each piece of software they develop/create Secondly all sites part of the iTunes like network has to attach unique encrypted serial numbers to each software download Both the encrypted serial numbers and CRC/SHA’s for that downloaded software is then put into a database which is given to all emulator developers/authors for incorporation into their emulator (very similar to the way good tools/tosec works) Each time someone uses a homebrew software with an emulator the emulator will search the database to see if that software being used complies with the information held on the database file (i.e. serial number and CRC/SHA identifier, if it doesn’t comply the software can’t be run, if it does comply the software will continue to load and run on the emulator If downloaded software is ‘sold back’ to either the central iTunes like service or the site that bore the original software download link, that site will simply remove that software serial number and remove that serial number entry from the database issued to emulator authors/developers, this is so that if people have copies of this software that was sold back and use it with emulator, because the serial number details were removed the game or software won’t be useable on that emulator since the information held on the emulator database file won‘t comply with the serial number on the software Obviously each time you use that or this emulator, you would need to be online for the initial executing of the emulator so that the emulator can download the updated database file The thinking here is that this method of software validation will remove/reduce the possibility of people reuploading that software onto filesharing and torrent places as well as selling that software on ebay/amazon/gumtree/CL etc and similar I accept that is won’t stop all of the homebrewers efforts from being downloaded from those sites or sold on on ebay/amazon/gumtree/CL etc and similar but it should restrict or limit that possibility in a majority of cases At the end of the day if this service succeeds everyone wins since, the site that bore the software download link the downloader used gets a percentage of the download cost, as does the central iTunes like service and most importantly the homebrew developer gets a percentage as well, the consumer wins since they get legally downloadable content that they can use with emulators and give something back to the developer/author of that program/software also it will open the classic/retro platform market to renewed commercial 3rd party software development, since those developers/authors or publishers active in this market will get getting money for their software creations and if they are making money from their software creations won’t that just incentivise or motivate them to continue support that particular retro/classic platform (and apply that to homebrewers working on other retro/classic platforms) As well as being able to download the emulator version of that homebrew software, those sites part of the iTunes like service network, will also be able to sell physical software versions in either original format (I.e. tape/disk/cart/CD) and since more and more retro/classic platforms are new supporting new media formats (NMF’s) like USB sticks/CF/SD cards and similar, sites and services allied to the ITunes service network will also be able to sell NMF versions of the same software which means the homebrew developer can earn even more money from his software creations as they will be available on multiple media formats Another benefit regarding NMF’s is that if a developer/publisher is creating the same game or software on a variety of retro/classic hardware platforms, rather then release each version on a on a seperate NMF (i.e same game on each retro platform but on separate usb sticks or cf/sd cards), why not release all the versions of that game or software on the same NMF (i.e same game on each retro platform but on the same stick or cf/sd card), it saves on distribution and it saves on productions and manufacturing costs and also maximises sales for that one game or software You could expand that idea further by having different games or software from various different retro platforms on the same usb stick cf/sd card, again, you save on distribution, manufacturing and production costs and you further maximise sales of each game or software If this was implemented in this fashion the possibilities are endless since it would to a large extend open the classic/retro platform market to renewed commercial 3rd party software development and possibly gain interest from mainstream developers and publishers After all how many sites out there on the interweb are engaged in the retro/classic platform market and how many sites out there on the interweb are engaged in classic./retro emulation as well as classic/retro software images sites, in think in both cases we could be talking about the 10’s of 1000’s not counting the 100’s of 1000’s of people that congregate either periodically or frequently to those sites, no need to re-invent the distribution wheel, we already have that in place

All you do is reverse the data cable at the drive end and plug it into the miggy int. drive (obviously you have to take the drive out of the amiga and stick it into the ST (pref FM's or E's) don't ask me about F's or mega's....never used them Slight problem is though, you will have to cut a bigger hole at the disk drive part of the ST case so that the amiga disk eject button can come fully out, or just leave the case off, like i did I know this works, did it myself when i had an STe (didn't get around to trying it with the FM as i gave that away (to someone in ashford, kent) I only did this since the drive that was previously in the STe had issues with formatting some disks i had, so i tried the amiga int. floppy drive instead and it formatted the disks no problem

my name keeps showing up in the active users list even though i marked/ticked the option for logging in anonymously (and ok'd it) is that an 'undocumented feature' or has the gremlins got into the system/site

wasn't soccer 5200 a hack of intellivision soccer (since they look remarkably very similar) or was it a hack of thorn EMI soccer for the A8 (again remarkably similar)

I still have some of my twaug mags, can't recall if i still have the disks though (don't have all the twaug mags but did get the two volume mapping book they did...the author of which is actually a member here)

Mcleaneinc, i was following on from R6502a's comment, since he's in london and the seller is the other side of the m4 (and going by my exp. of selling over 200 tapes to someone north of the border i know that it would have been expensive, since i was quoted well over 75.00 GBP, though this was some years ago) PS, I had a lazer upgraded 1050 (or to give it the full name, warp lazer) I was told that hyperdrive (by blittersoft) was basically another name for lazer/warp lazer

A vcs makes a good doorstop....hold on, i thought that was the zx81's job

Whats the biggest lot of retro h/w and s/w you've actually physically seen sold I bring this up after my little trek to south london (nine elm's, not too far from where the new US embassy will be located), considering i live central/north london Anyway, i went to nine elms to a regular sunday market/car booter (car booter is somewhat likened to what you people might know as a flea market or garage sale), i only went there on the hunch i might pick up an 'El cheapo' Wireless hardware access point (which i actually did, and exactly what i was looking to pay) Anyway after getting what i was looking for i decided to see the rest of the market (which is held on the grounds of the new covent garden market), I went towards the front end where there was a covered or indoor area there were more stalls there in the middle at one end i managed to catch sight of a stall that i saw had a boxed Atari Jaguar and an N64 as i got closer and closer to the stall, i saw a lot more there including both versions of the Lynx in some plastic presentation case (i guess to stop people getting muck/dirt on the items) several iterations of gameboy and gba, a sega game gear, an unboxed atari 7800, an unboxed original sega MD (with mega cd underneath) and the smaller version of the sega MD, along with a saturn, DC, playstation, unboxed Atari jaguar w/game in cart slot, nes, both version of SMS and a gamecube/snes and literally loads of other games systems, including some electronic games i remember like astro wars, entex's pacman, space invaders 1000 (yellow black), space invaders 10.,000 (white/black) and a red/black version as well, there might have been others, can't recall, along with numerous shelves full of software for those and other games systems If i recall correctly only the boxed atari jaguar and the boxed n64 plus some boxed jaguar games (10) and a few boxed Mega cd software, came in original packaging/boxes, everything thing else was unboxed (i.e loose) Only thing with the boxed jaguar is that i think it was NTSC only (since it had an american sticker on it, just to the upper left side of the box) One thing i did notice though was a hell of a lot of these stalls selling different iterations of second hand Xbox, compared to literally only a hand ful of ps2s/3 and only 2 wii's seen, has MS gone bust or something or are people just upgrading I am sure someone here can beat that

I think there was a company in germany that did rack mopunted cases for old school STFMs, dunno if they got around to doing ste versions the company was called IBP (they made customised stfm's for industrial purposes)

How many of the homesoft menu disks were in original A8 format before they went over to emulator format How many of the games were hacked/cracked by homesoft themselves/himself or were they all cracked by homesoft (since some games don't come with the homesoft 'cracked' screen) How many versions of homesofts 'cracked' screen was there I noticed that they managed to hack USG's gauntlet, Vanadium and some other games that load in levle or extra data after the main game (as data files) I have'nt seen another dos menu sys. that does that (though that scheme was popular with british boot menu programs like john williams multiboot, multiboot, rob c and variants, ian k/c-elton and howfen dos)

Atari in the mobile market, don't think so That's the only hardware market they can get into, the desktop games market is already spoken for, hardly anyone is doing anything (games wise) for computers (pc's) and most of the linux stuff is free Hows about a retro mobile, Atari....show me the money (as it said in some film)