frogstar_robot
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Posts posted by frogstar_robot
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For the love of god don't start with that atrocious "port" of Galaga from '82 or so.. Why on earth not start with the 7800 version which is a pretty damn good version (not quite PCE Galaga'88, but very good), source code and all ? Okay, so level 10 onwards is a bit weak, but it's jolly good really and I imagine it's short comings are easily fixed, and it's only a 32K cart to start with.. The thought of another "commodore in atari clothing" game just fills me with woe and makes me sad ;(
If the sprite hardware of the C64 is problematic for A8 ports then porting certain 7800 titles would cause major fits. Maria is pretty much a hardware sprite engine with token playfield support. So much so that it seems playfields are used to enhance sprites on the 7800 rather than the other way around. I bet games like Galaga and Food Fight are pretty much swinging tons of hardware drawn sprites around with little regard for the problems of doing things either in charmode or linear bitmap mode. Games of that sort are pretty much in the 7800's sweet spot and probably wouldn't directly port well even to the mighty C64
. Yes, yes, I know other approaches are perfectly viable on the Commie...... -
The first time I really got worried about the progress the PC was making was when I saw Wolfenstein 3D. I'd never seen anything like it.
You had things like Gloom for the Amiga but it really struggled to do it and you had to cheat a lot with a small viewport on a lower spec Amiga. And that was just to implement a Wolfenstein style raycast engine. Matching Doom or Descent was almost completely out of the question.
I got a 486 with 16MB ram and a 540MB hard drive in '94 to replace my 520ST. It had Cirrus Logic 5446 video and a SB Pro clone sound card. In all it was a low range machine for the time but it made most of the STs and Amigas I'd seen look sick. There were scads of smooth running 32-bit extended DOS games that used the 320x240x256 pixel mode and at least Adlib sound. This machine could mostly pull the original Descent off. Win 3.x was still mainstream and laughable compared to even GEM as implemented on my ST but for gaming our beloved STs, Falcons, and Amigas were on life support.
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...Majorly huge snip.
Atarian, you really really need to learn how to trim quotes or start doing it on the odd chance you don't. They nest like this
[Q]
Flamebait snarky post
[Q]
raging reply
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more snark
[slash Q]
[slash Q]
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Remove the lines that start with "quote" and get the matching closing tag on the same level. Repeat until your reply doesn't take up an entire page that consists of four other posts.
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penny arcade...
Camden Park (West Virginia)
Ah! I remember it well. Ever hit the Gold Mines at the Huntington Mall?
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Bonus points to the Atari 400 for the TRON looking keyboard, I love the looks just wouldn't want to type on it except to press the START or SELECT buttons on a game
I wouldn't want to type on it either but it is good enough to play a game like Star Raiders. The 400 was a lot like the Odyssey2 in that regard. That is something about the 5200 that never made much sense to me. A 400 redone with a lower cost single board with the cartridge games emphasized would have made much more sense as a console. It could even have been detachable ala the XEGS but still with the membrane design which is fine for single keypresses in a simulation type title.
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Interlace only really looks ok with massive amounts of colours on screen and lots of anti-alaising like in HAM6/8 on Amigas
We have an unfortunate overloading of a word here. When Rybags speaks of "interlace", he's talking about a 480i mode that he's wrung out of the A8 chipset. It actually is interlace as the term is spoken of in a generic video context. This is not the same as "interlace" as commonly used by Atarians and Amigans which are software modes derived from the hardware modes. Rybags mode IS a derived software mode but he is doing true interlace at the video field level.
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No. It seems to be a coexistens there. Because GTIA used the "doubled" PM of the 2600's TIA, which is an upgrade to the Pong machines.
That is quite far fetched.
In historical context it isn't. The first widely sold "home video games" were Pong variants. The earliest ones were mostly done with discrete logic and the market for them exploded when pong-on-a-chip parts hit the market. The hardware in the TIA really was originally intended as a programmable-super-pong-on-steroids. You have sprite hardware objects designated as "players" and even a "ball". And many of the original 1978 launch titles have a distinctly Pong look and feel to them and it took devs for the system awhile to quit thinking in those terms.
The A8 chipset was originally slated for a 5200like successor that would have been out about the time Home Computers eventually hit the market. The success of Tandy, Apple, and Commodore in the market caused Atari to rethink their plans for the hardware...and the 400 was very consolelike regardless.
In any case, the A8 hardware is mostly an obvious expansion of the TIA.
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You really think that ? I think given that even after 286 pages it should be allowed to run its course.. If you think that course has run then fine, but I guess it's what Albert thinks, or CpuWiz or the other mods of this gaff.. I for one think it's an interesting read on the occasional few times it re-resurfaces from the murky depths..
It was a suggestion to the mods not a command to them as though I could do that anyway. And yes, I really believe this.
I'm curious how you think it sucks the oxygen from other threads though.. I've only really ever followed the homebrew, hardware & the 2600/7800 programming forums on here, mainly because their the ones the held any real content.. And this thread really only attracts the postings of a few..
When it gets hot and heavy I see what seems to be a dropoff in posting on other topics in the A8 forum.
Personally I find this thread a nice easy place to bat^hnter this out, though there's less bat^hntering now, albeit at more of a lounge pace now, but none the less, it's an interesting thread, when not being obliterated by weeble-tards.. It's like whos computer is best, but over White Russians and lounge music whilst seated in nice sofas in the sun
It'd be a shame to lock it, I think..
That is just it. The thread saw no posts for about two weeks and was revived by someone who apparently joined simply to post flamebait in it. This sort of behavior presaged some of the worst back and forth in the thread. Like you I enjoyed the other sort of posting here but to see the thread go quiescent only to be woken back up by the sort of post we left behind 300 or so posts ago doesn't encourage me. That and this thread isn't the first place I'd think to look to see what is happening with the obscure corners of POKEY and so forth.
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It really amazes me how all atarians from this forum know why I am here and what is my purpose. You must have the very rare knowledge on how to read people's minds. The truth is brutal, I just showed how much Barbarian is better on C64 and I did it in the right topic. I know it was the very painful example, but you'd better be ready, since much more is coming. When Allas was doing the same, showing the superiority of Atari games, nobody was whining. So, let's act like men rather than children. OK ?
Correct thread: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/147727-atari-and-commodore-versions-of-the-same-game-which-is-better/
There is nothing "painful" about your exposition of C64 Barbarian. We've seen and acknowledged any number of titles that were superior on the C64 or only exist on the C64. We've even been comparing and contrasting with videos. Have you troubled to read this monster in it's entirety before weighing in with your pearls of wisdom?
So Rockford is going to come here give us Atarians tough love with "painful truth"? LOL. We need to be ready for more manly pain as only Rockford can dish it out? Give me a <bleep> break.
On the bright side there has been lot of lore being swapped and even experimentation though other threads will serve that better. This thread sucks the oxygen out of other topics when someone can't help but revive it. I suggest locking it and maybe even making it permanently pinned as pretty much everything Atari and Commodore fanbois can fling at each other has been aired in it and the other vs thread we had about a year ago. We could just refer everybody to them when this sad sad GM vs Ford type stuff comes up again as it must from time to time.
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WOW ! Another punisher and this time you scared me to death.
I am only a messenger who brings bad news. I know it's hard to bear, but please do not kill me. 
I also hope that sticking to the topic and being a C-64 fan is not a crime in this forum ? As for Oswald, he is a very talented and respectable guy. He is also very active on the C-64 scene. Having read his posts I clearly see that many people could learn a lot from him. Unfortunately your answer was quite hilarious. Project M and Space Harrier are only projects, not games yet. Besides, will they be working on 64k Atari, as Space Harrier already is on C-64 ? Do they really work in 256 colours, or maybe somebody is colour blind ? Well, I can safely assume that a proper example has not been showed yet. So, could you be so kind and show me the real one, instead of appealing to ban me ? If it's so easy on Atari, just prove it. 
No one here doubts Oswald is talented. But he wasn't banned from this topic and forum for being talented. He was an arrogant ass who dismissed any Atari advantage that couldn't be utilized in C64 terms and he usually did so in the most crass way possible. Behavior of that sort isn't anything most here would care to learn from him.
If all you wanted to do was tout C64 Barbarian then there is a more recent thread where only the quality of the game at hand and not the platform it runs on is on topic. But you didn't post in that one. You joined simply resurrect this thread; and I'll note you bring absolutely nothing new that hasn't already been said in over 7K posts.
C64 had a better Barbarian; so what? I'm still not throwing out my Atari gear and I'm still not regretting passing on Commodore gear I had to friends.
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4. Lastly - on the buttons. I have not been satisfied with the overall rebound snap of the current fire button silicone, so I spent much of last night in Solidworks designing a new design and I submitted for the silicone parts maker, she is going to run off a proto sample in 5 business days, so by early the week after I should have some new samples and once I get them to be at a point where I feel they significantly improve button feel and performance, I will put them in envelopes and mail free to anyone who is willing to put them upgraded silicone buttons in themselves.
I want people to be happy, if it costs a little bit out of pocket to do that, then in the end I did the right thing for everyone.
Curt
You are a scholar and a gentleman!
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Well, I'm not sure WHAT I'm doing these days, but seems as though I'm collecting old Macs..where this came from or how this started is anyone's guess.
I really had no intention of collecting this stuff, but for some reason I've been bitten by the old Apple bug. AND it doesn't help that I work at a place that gets in old computers for recycling. The iMac is in GREAT shape, in the dark-blue color, with a clear optical mouse that's just downright sexy. The keyboard is clear as well. No software with it, but this things seems loaded from my initial power up. The system version is 9.2, and I think it could take 10.
The Powerbook 1400c is also loaded with utility and application software (system version 7.5.3), and everything looks great on it. No book covers to speak of or extra software, but it's a little gem. Battery will not hold a charge, which was to be expected for it's age. Trackpad works fine, and all buttons are in excellent shape.
I think next I'm going to look for a Plus or SE, since I grew up on those before getting bitten by the PC bug. Any thoughts on collecting old Macs, or does anyone else around here do that sort of thing? Am I going completely nuts? Anyway, your thoughts/comments would be appreciated, or any experiences you might have.
Thanks, all. I think I'm going off the deep end on this one.
The mouse and keyboard aren't original if you are going for an all original system. The original iMac came with the infamous "hockey puck" mouse and a keyboard trimmed in the same "bondi blue" color.
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I have to put in a vote for dying in Q-Bert. The original cabs had a ball bearing or something inside that would make a loud clunk if Q-Bert fell off the pyramid. The other game that was really cranked loud back in the day at one of favorite arcades was Wizard Of Wor. You could hear that dirgy tune and the Worluk from anywhere in the arcade.
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The command line app is up and running (under Mac OS X and Linux) and work on the GUI is still in progress.Linux users tend to have little fear of that.
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Hmmm... VBXE, SoundBoard, Bob's 7.16MHz CPU upgrade...Congratulations gentlemen... You've created what the next step in Atari's 8bit line should have been. With a few modern bells and whistles like lotsa lotsa RAM... So that makes an extra 1MB now that I'm not mistaken with both the video and sound upgrades... AWESOME!!!!
Yep. It's the Atari IIGS. I know the problem isn't insurmountable but doesn't Bob's upgrade need some tweaking to co-exist with VBXE?
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Anyway, doesn't matter, Oswald was the guy involved in the A8 vs C64 thread, and he always got it wrong, I remember now.Not wrong necessarily but he was dismissive of any A8 advantage that couldn't be used with C64 style programming and he made it very obvious that he thought anyone who preferred A8s lacked the good taste he has. He also exhibited the common Commodore fanboi pathology of only thinking Jay Miner a genius when his work carries a Commodore nameplate. Any Atarian who thought Miner a genius for the 2600 and the A8 as well was just stealing glory from Commodore....etc....etc....etc...
I do not disparage his Commodore knowledge. He is a very skilled C-64 demo coder. That doesn't absolve him of being abusive and arrogant here though.
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Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god. I never denied that you were wrong. Get your mental rollercoaster under control and be civil.Did my post sound a little hypocritical???
Um. Just so you know in case you didn't but Curt is A and pretty much THE:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/admin.htm
Besides which he definitely knows his stuff.
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Looks like I might have to take her back to the woodshed for a full redesign... I'll be back in a year or so with an update.You could drop the RockStar Brains to get the cost down to the level of say a Lamborghini Countach. I know it's not as sexy but you could do the bank switching with a 64K SRAM that only costs a couple of bucks. Besides you're only going to find used RockStar Brains and those have already been pickled in metric tons of cocaine and thousands of litres of alcohol. They're sexy as hell but can't be terribly reliable.
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There, you see? That's the sort of thing I'm trying to find out about!But I don't know how much of a problem this would present. Does it make it next to impossible, or very difficult? What about the program (game) itself? A small game?
Would there be similar problems with MSX games?
The PIA and drive missing isn't as big a factor for the 400. The 400 was practically a game console. Yeah one can do disk based gaming on the 400 but I really don't think that was what Atari had in mind. The 400 seems more like an Odyssey2 on roids. There are a great many carts and smaller bin games that could be ported to the 5200 though ones that use OS calls could prove extra challenging. The PIA missing does mean that the control logic has to be completely redone. The PIA provided hardware support for digital sticks. With it lacking, POKEY reads the analog axes and GTIA is used to read button presses.
In principle there is no reason why scads of titles ported from the A8 couldn't be on it. The reality is that A8 computers are supersets of the 5200 and porting is less messy in that direction. Apart from Adventure 2, the entire 5200 library is available on the A8 and A8s can be had cheaply enough. Also porting games to the A8 generally means the 5200 titles get standard DB-9 digital joystick control by default. Few titles were improved by the 5200's analog sticks so the motivation is largely damped. Though 5200 Star Raiders has proportional steering and that sounds like a blast to play.
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Once the Atari Gold is complete, we can play this on it:
Though I'll note that image by Atariboy2600 represents more actual work than this is likely to see.
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But I will not allow the likes of anyone here to tell me not to mention that the 5200 was outsold by the CV, or that the CV controllers themselves were better than the 5200 ones. The latter most people agreed with, even if they didn't like the CV ones (games digital, CV controllers digital, plus the 9-pin factor). The former is documented fact, and when it is relevant, I will mention it.I will grant that the CV controllers are much more reliable than 5200 controllers but that is it. When I played CV at friend's houses, I found them literally painful to use after awhile. If I ever own one project the first will be modifying the controller so I can plug something less stiff in and still use the keypad, a Slik-Stik perhaps. They hurt then and would damn near kill me now.
On the other hand, I do have happy memories of puttering around with my buddy's ADAM and we both loved Super Buck Rogers Planet Of Doom.
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This is probably the largest post on Atariage!Your post is eight words. Even this reply is a bigger post.
I wouldn't say that you are a troll or that you spout anything more than mild venom but duuuuuuuude step away from the keyboard and tot up your post count. You've been something of a monomaniac. Or even more aptly:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorsh...essrebutter.htm
Let some of this go. We're having a nice summer this year. Check it out!
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Funny, when I first opened this thread up, I thought that this was gonna be a topic in where someone put the insides of a 7800 in the shell of a 2600 (with a wider cartridge slot I'd assume). Has that ever been done? I tried doing a search on the forums, a 7800 in the body of a heavy sixer? Is it possible?Sure it's possible but both shell and 7800 board would need some fairly serious alteration to make a clean job of it. In the end, you wind up with a 7800 that is easily mistaken for a 2600. I'm not sure why someone would want to do that.
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Oswald is a very talented C64 demo coderI didn't say he was untalented or doesn't know his stuff. He obviously does. But talent doesn't preclude arrogance which he also has in abundance.
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Atari v Commodore
in Atari 8-Bit Computers
Posted
[quote name='Jetboot Jack' date='Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:28 AM' timestamp='1253690910' from being a third generation personal computer.
The 800 was a first generation machine, it's contemporaries are the Apple 2, TRS 80 and PET chronologically.
True but in its debut era it was a designed as a powerful expensive machine with as few compromises as possible. The chipset was particularly designed to overcome the biggest shortcomings of the 2600. It's competitors from the debut era weren't in the same class either graphically or sonically. Time, economy of scale, and consolidation of hardware functions got the original stratospheric pricing down.
The C-64 though a later design was intended from the get-go to be inexpensive though it still benefits from almost 4 years of advances. The Apple II, PET, et al don't even begin to compete with it though the A8 still can with a mixed bag of shortcomings and advantages.
Though I'm curious where you get "third generation" from. If anything I'd call machines like the Altair and Apple I 1st, Apple II, A8, et al 2nd, and Speccy, C-64 and so-forth 3rd.