DarkLord

I think most of the rational/saner people here understand Maurius. I own both, and love both machines. For me they fill very different niches. I could never dump one for the other. Honestly, I do use my ST's *much* more than my 8bit - but I still think they are both very cool, and that's why I voted that way.

Agreed! PS Wait, I got an idea - just for the entertainment value, lets go to an Amiga site and start a "C64 vs Amiga" thread, and then a bunch of us ST people will go in, and hijack it to how the C64 was really an 8bit ST! <roflol> Just kidding of course...

Thanks Stephen. I couldn't believe he said he started to take a Falcon and hammer it to pieces for a Youtube video. Even if you didn't like the Falcon and had one, used ones these days go for $350-500 easy on Ebay.

Still very entertaining, but its gotten way out of hand. It turned into another ST vs Amiga thread. Unfortunately, I let myself be dragged into it as well. I should know better. So I'm going to continue reading it, but I'm not going to respond to the "bait". Sorry for taking things off the main topic gang.

Thorsten, Maurius and everyone, I want to apologize - really didn't mean for this to turn into a run-of-the-mill ST vs Amiga thread. Been there done that, been hacked to death countless times. Just really tiresome to see those comments about how machine X has no redeeming features, while machines Y is "perfect". Its usually never that black and white, and only Sith Lords deal in absolutes. I'm not gonna respond to any other off-topic msgs here, unless I take it into private mode. Thanks to the cooler/saner heads who post here.

Hmm, TT 32mhz CPU... A3000 25mhz CPU... Hmm, looks comparable to me!

Sorry to revisit this post again, but I had a question, if you don't mind... Did the Rejuvenator fit inside the stock A1000 case without any modification? Thanks much!

1991 Agreed, at the time of the TT's release, these were not available. By the way, can anyone post a website that lists all the Amiga video card and accelerator releases by date, and which machine they were for? I'd be *very* interested in such a list. Was just curious, since even Commodores own A3000 A3640 accelerator wouldn't work right in the stock desktop A3000. Really. From the start, you could stick "hundreds" of megs in a -stock- A3000. If so, at what cost? (and as I mentioned, the TT could hold 256 megs of Ram as well, with a "plug and play" daughterboard) (wasn't there a Ram problem with some A3000s?) Won't argue the A3000 sold more - but then, that wasn't the issue was it? There were a few video cards available, ET4000/Nova Graphics, etc,... Lets continue the comparison for stock machines a bit: Getting the obvious out of the way first, I'll give the video and audio edge to the A3000. Noting that very high end DTP would probably be better on the TT with its 19" monitor/high rez 1280×960/64 bit path video mode. TT - 1.44mb floppy drive A3000 - 880k floppy drive TT - 32mhz CPU A3000 - 25mhz CPU TT - 4 serial ports stock A3000 - 1 stock TT - MIDI built in A3000 - none So both machines had some really great features, but no one in their right mind can argue that the TT was not faster stock, and had a few better features stock. and the most resounding argument of all - I think it was prettier...

Quite a bit more actually: 68030 CPU @ 32mhz FPU: Motorola 68882 @ 32 MHz System RAM 2 MB ST RAM expandable to 12 MB TT RAM expandable to 256 MB TT RAM on daughter board using either 30-pin or 72-pin SIMMs Custom chips: TT Shifter "TT Video shift register chip" — Enabled bitmap graphics. Featured a 64-bit wide bus with interleaved access to ("dual purpose") system memory and on-chip buffers for high bandwidths. Contiguous 32 KB memory for ST modes, 154 KB for TT modes. TT GLU "Generalized Logic Unit" — Control logic for the system used to connect the STs chips. Not part of the data path, but needed to bridge chips with each other. Used in TT and MEGA STE. DMA "Direct Memory Access" — Three independent channels, one for floppy and hard drive data transfers, one for the SCSI port and one for 85C30 SCC network port. Direct access to ("dual purpose") system memory in the ST. 2 chips used. MCU "Memory Control Unit" — For system RAM. Color: 320×200 (16 color), 320×480 (256 colors), 640×200 (4 colors), 640×480 (16 colors), palette of 4096 colors Duochrome: 640×400 (2 colors) Monochrome: 1280×960 mono TT high with special 19 in monitor Sound: Yamaha YM2149 + National LMC 1992 Drive: 1.44 MB MIDI In/Out 3 x RS-232 Serial LAN RS-422 Appletalk network port Printer VGA Monitor (analog RGB and Mono) Extra Disk drive port ACSI and SCSI port VMEbus inside case cartridge (128 KB) keyboard (detachable) Joystick and Mouse ports (on keyboard) Case: Two-piece desktop-style. Release Date: 1990-1991 $2995 with 2 MB RAM and 50 MB hard drive Like the A3000, not a bad machine.

The A3000 is a nice machine. Instead of comparing it to the Mac IIfx though, just for the fun of it - compare it to the Atari TT030 released at approximately the same time.

You know, I spent a lot of time and effort on my Falcon. It's a very cool machine, boots up *fast*, rock solid, lots of fun to play with. I've had a ball working on it, don't regret one moment of it. I'd say its a lot like how you must feel about your every chip resocketed, upgraded 130XE. I've always admired your work and dedication to the 8bits, very worthy. I have to say your atitude and intolerance towards others with different opinions leaves much to be desired. I won't sink to your level, and slam your machine in retaliation. Nope, I'm better than that. I'll just keep on looking at my ultra-cool OS and thinking about how great diversity is. No arguing with you about the timeframe, but thank you for vindicating my argument, that options are available for both. Have a nice day, MetalGuy66.

My Abacus owns them all!

Hmm, wasn't arguing "quantity". Just pointing out that these options and add-ons were available for both machines.

Very nice. I've always liked the A1000's case and recessed keyboard. Not necessarily true though - the PAK030/50 board would give the ST close to the oomph of your setup. It also added mucho Ram, newer TOS version, etc,... Not belitting your setup - its awesome - but as I said, there are options for both, not just one.

Of course, he could have showed them this: http://www.darkforce.org/index2.html 256 megs of SDRAM 95mhz 060 processor DVD drive Running MINT Or even Didier's water-cooled tower Falcon: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/didierm/ Not trying to get into a pic/flame war showing upgraded models, but there are options on both sides. Not just one.

Lots of good stuff snipped here, but ST outlasted the Amiga? No way matey! Or do you mean as a functional company per se? Atari vs. Commodore up until the mid 90's? Ignoring the multitude of practical 3rd party products that continue to this day for the Amiga, remember companies like Amiga Technologies, Escom et al, produced Amiga systems for many years after Commodores demise. Still, the history of it all is mind boggling. Amiga really is a 'current' platform and OS for all practical intents and is supported by many companies. There's even a couple of current FPGA projects, one is an A500 clone and with the AGA patents expiring in a year or two, I bet we'll have new A1200's, etc. While the ST may not be dead-dead, pretty darn close. I don't see new cases, sound cards, video cards, usb cards or any TOS OS being developed or replicated anywhere in the world except for maybe high atop a secluded German mountain. lol But I'm sure as soon as I say that, someone will point to some link(s).... lol (I am aware of a new or semi-new IDE or SCSI interface for the ST) I think he was just saying that Atari Corp. outlasted Commodore, the corporation itself, in its original form. Nothing about 3rd party companies, etc,... FPGA project here: http://experiment-s.de/en/ UltraSatan was the last interface I bought, for my portable Atari laptop (STacy): http://joo.kie.sk/ultrasatan/ Teradesk is a desktop replacement still supported: http://solair.eunet.yu/~vdjole/teradesk.htm Lots of CD stuff here: http://www.anodynesoftware.com/ and still lots of interesting things going on all over. Love my Atari's. I owned some Amiga's for awhile (A1000 - love that keyboard well, A1200, nice - just felt cheaply constructed next to my Falcon, A2000 - good "big box" Amiga". They are nice machines, just prefer my Atari's. To each their own.

Hey Stephen. I used to get on there - was quite fun. Haven't been on in a long time - same story as others - LOT (lack of time)... I logged on there just now - my old account is still there. No one else was on though - too bad. I'll try to logon more often.

I'd try Best Electronics: http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/ HTHs.

Did you see the Sony patent thing? Where the Falcon is involved?

The 800XL is "just OK"?? Are you crazy? The 800XL is probably the most beautiful home computer ever made. (followed by the TI-99/4A) The XE and ST look like garbage in comparison. Have to differ (although I think my 800XL is gorgeous too), I think the Mega ST and Mega STe are awesome in looks.

Everything except price that is....this poor country boy couldn't afford an Amiga! The ST gave me much of what the Amiga offered, at a price I could affort. If I had waited for an affordable Amiga, I would have probably wound up going down the PC path instead. (ugh!!!!!) Thank goodness for the "Power Without The Price" philosophy! PS and IIRC, the Atari ST was released before the Amiga, so I'm not so sure about the bad copy thing. (yes, I know Lorraine was in planning for a long time)

Agreed!

BBS's can and still do work successfully. telnet: darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org

Yep, been following that thread. Entertaining...

Have you tried asking over at http://www.atari-forum.com ? The Satandisk designer is active over there. Please don't ask for actively supported software like Uwe Seimet's HDDriver. Attracting programmers to retro platforms is hard enough as it is. We really don't want to drive them away. Yep, AtariForums has multiple threads on the SatanDisk and UltraSatan. You can download the ICD Pro Utilities for free (but you're right, HDDriver is superior): http://joo.kie.sk/ultrasatan/icdpro/icdp655a.zip Also, Jookies website has very detailed information on now to use the SatanDisk or UltraSatan.