zenassem

November 4, 2004

I'm working on a port of Castlevania for A8. Ran into some troubles figuring out DL's & DLI's but Gauntman Cleared alot of it up for me. My goal is to make a better version than the C64's. While I'm getting a grip on Antic and Mac/65 I've been creating character sets, and sprite animations. Hopefully I an get up a demo with a couple of playable screens in a couple of weeks. Just finished version 2 of the title screem. It's important to me that the game loooks and plays good from opening to closing credits.

I'm welcoming any comments (good & bad) and suggestions.

The colors look different on my monitor than in the emulator (ie. the purple and red is much more vivid. The monitor also does a better job of blending the pixels, and making use od the thatched patterns.

My Titile Screen:

---

C64 Title Screnn:

November 3, 2004

I remember using BlackRabbit to copy most of my disks back in the mid-late 80's. I believe it did a sector by sector copy and was able to make note of error tracks (copy protection), and reproduce them on the copy.

I can still remeber the black screen with the white dots as it was copying the disk?

................

It's the only disk copy program I had back then. I remember being a young kid, and feeling like an underground Pirater with my BlackRabbit disk. Quite funny to think about it now.

Was this considered a good disk copier? If so, does anyone have information on it, and where I can find it these days?

Was there better programs for copying disks? Where can I get them?

Thanks,

~Zen

November 3, 2004

@Sean Jefferson,

Just wanted to thank you for sharing your source. I will look at it in more depth tonight. I should probably start using CC65 for my atari development.

I really like those text effects.

I was wondering if you could tell me more about CC65.

I have done alot with C/C++ DirectX game development for windows. I always wanted to come back to the Atari, since that is where I started. I never did more than basic programming on the Atari back then. Nor did I really understand or have the experience to truly understand the hardware. So now I am going back to my roots, as an adult, to finally conquer the Atari -- and code a full, quality game.

I figured since I have experience with 8086 assembly language that I would learn the 6502 instruction set and develop in mac/65. Unfortunately, it's not the machine language that I am difficulty with, but rather Atari specific hardware (ie. antic, pokey).

Although I'm progressing slower than my normal learning curve, I take value in the experience because it is forcing me to truly understand the hardware/memory/OS/Chips inside out. So I wil stick with pure assembly language, writing all of my own routines for a while, but eventually I figure that I would like to move to cross platform dev utiilizing CC65.

I havenb't investigated CC65 yet, but I'm curious as to what libraries/functions they have with regard to Atari 8-bit. Are much of the equates, routines, graphics setup for you?

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

~zen

November 3, 2004

@Gauntman,

Thank you so much. That's "EXACTLY" what I needed. I had a chance to quickly glance at the source code, and already spotted where I was going wrong. I will experiment with it tonight.

You have no idea how much this helps me. I had a lot of the info, but nothing to see how to tie it all together. I really can't thank you enough =)

http://www.howell1964.freeserve.co.uk/Atar...ri_hw/antic.htm

Btw, If anyone else is having a hard time understanding How to work with the Antic chip, here is a link to the website that really explained how it works. While "DE RE Atari" and "Atari Roots" do a great job on a wide range of topics, I feel that they didn't have the space to explain the Antic in depth. I haven't received my mapping the Atari, or Your Atari 400/800, to see if they do a better job.

November 2, 2004

Thanks shawn,

Btw, the Display list I requested doesn't actually have to be ONE program. I just wanted to see an example (100% assembly) of a display list that used the numerous options, mixed modes, and DLI's to change color registers.

I understand Binary and Hex notation. It just wasn't clicking for me the way that some of the books were describing it, and the order in which their explanation proceeded. For example, One of them started out showing a Gr.0 display list and then a GR.2 diaplay list. The only problem was they didn't have a picture/chart showing, nor did they do a good job of explaining the LMS instruction. It was if they were pulling the 2 byte hex numbers out of thin air. Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words. Once I was able to see what each bit related to it made sense.

At this point a can create my own display list. I grasp setting up mixed modes, but I can't seem to understand how to use DLI vectors and how to have a DLI change the color registers to get more colors on the screen at once.

November 2, 2004

Specifically: Atrari 800/xl/xe but anyone familiar with antic will know.

WARNING LONG POST!

But if you have the time to read, it would make a world of difference to my programming pursuits if you could offer any help.

I'm having a little bit of trouble in fully understanding setting up display lists and D.L.I's via MAC/65 assembly language. I'll outline my speciic confusion at the bottom of this post. What would really help me, is if someone could provide me a code snippet that approximately (I'm not accurately counting scan lines/mode lines here, so it may need to adjusted) does the following.

Top part of screen Antic mode# 4:

(1) A line that plot's some character fonts in 4 colors

(2) A linte that does the same as (1) but switches colors via a DLI

(3) A few lines same as (1) but has fine horizontal/vertical scrolling

Mid part of screen Antic Mode# E (basic mode 7+)

(1) draw some lines

(2) Switch colors via DLI

(3) If it's possible add some scrolling coarse AND/OR fine

Bottom part of screem Antic Mode# 2 (basic mode 0)

(1) line(s) that has text

(2) line(s) same as (1) but with a different bacground color and character luminance.

Some of my confusion on this topic:

I know I'm not the brightess bulb in the bunch, but I am having some problems understanding how to exactly customize my display. I have read chapters on this topic from a few different sources: De Re Atari, Atari Roots, Atari Graphics And Arcade Game design etc... But each one (to me) leaves out a few pieces of information... Or, right at the point where it should explain DLI's and other Advanced customizations, they jump to Basic code examples. Hence using basic loader to poke in values. rather than sticking with pure Assembly language.

It took me a a while to actually find a source (A user's webpage), that explained in detail how the the "TWO" byte values for the Antic instruction is derived, (ie. Added together). And what each Nybble is doing. So I was able to make a chart of all the values for LMS,Hscroll,& Vscroll. But I'm still confused on how to set it all up and then use DLI's on multiple mode lines. And if I see one more example of GR. 0 I am going lose my mind. I will worry about P/M setup in Assembly down the road. I'd be happy right now if I could have confidence in being to setup my screen the way I like.

Questions that may help me sort some of this out

1) I am looking for a pure Assembly approach. Is this the "right" idea, or should I do most of my game setup in BASIC, and only use machine language for the display routine?

2) I use RAMbrandt to draw some images, Logo's, Titlescreen Etc. It has utitilites to read the image file in BASIC, so that you can use your pictures in a BASIC program. I'm not sure exactly how to load these files from Assembler ONLY programs.

===============================================

I know this is a long post, and I don't really expect one person to answer it all. But If you can help clear up my confusion by even answering or supplying code for one part, I would be truly grateful.

I am sure it's not as complex as it seems to me right now. Eventually I'll pull enough of the texts together to make tails of it all, but I know that some help will expedite getting over this hurdle and save me weeks of frustration.

Well if you made it this far, I seriously want to thank you for taking the time. I know that there is an explanation of this topic, that will eventually tie all the lose pieces up for me.

Sincerely

~zenassem [/b]

November 2, 2004

It's not cheesey. I like it. Looks good with scan-lines on. It reminds me of the autoboot disk directories I had. Nice effect to use in a game. I'd like to look at the source when it's completed. Thanks for sharing Shawn.

November 2, 2004

Here's the NES screen that I used for reference. I still have some work to do, and adjust placement and such.

November 2, 2004

No G 'n G .Thanks for the info. Looks I'm going to busy programming. Ah just like the old days.

I've begun work on Castlevania. Still trying to get used to the quirky graphics modes and mac/65. Not as easy as using Masm. But it gets the job done. Can't remember the last time I was concerned with saving bytes.

While I'm polishing up my knowledgge of atari programming I began setting up the title screen. (hey, it's a start) It looks better on an actual Commodore 1702 then it does from a screen shot in the emulator without scan lines. The colors are a little off from my monitor display as well.

~zen

November 1, 2004

Goochman,

I saw the Super Mario 3 being written, but I wasn't aware of an original SMB 1 being worked on. I've only seen a "not quite so good" port. I have to say that the SMB3 looks really good, much better than I would have thought could be pulled off.

SMB1 is a good game for me to work on because it has a little bit of everything that I'm looking to do. (ie. scrolling, platforms, strong level design, colorful graphics, sprite multiplexing, collision detection, tileset animation, musical composition, and Fun to play!) I may just try to code one level to learn from.

Castlevania I & II would be my ultimate goal.

~zen

November 1, 2004

I was just lookiing for Ghouls 'n Ghosts (A.k.a. Ghost 'N Goblins), yet I don't see it for the 800/xe/xl. Only C64, Atari ST. I though I remebered playing it on my atari. Though I could just be remebering my NES version.

If it wasn't released, I think this would be a good candidate for a port.

I'm in the process of re-learning atari hardware and code, so it will be a while off before I can code something like this. My first big projects I am planning is a re-port od Gauntlet, and Soem original NES releases.

IE. Castlevania, Kid Icarus, Super Mario Bros., Zelda.

Right now I'm basically working on the Character Sets, while studying DLI's and Scrolling/Display techniques and Antic "Trickery". At first I was going to try to keep them all CTIA compatible, but the GTIA modes will work better for some of them.

~Zen

October 31, 2004

Ok, I just got sniped on these products at unreal price. So if someone has this package w/manual, and is willing to sell. Please PM me.

Nir Dary, Congratulations on a good sale$$. I really thought that I bid enough that noone would bump me. Well that's the way it goes on E-bay.

~zen

October 31, 2004

I'm always interested in to see how people set up their systems. I figured I would share mine. I'm not a collector that has rare items, but rather a programmer and enthusiast who enjoys gaming.

So here's my "Ground Control"!

(2600 4-switch "woody", Dell keyboard Connected to my Dell C610 Laptop , Nintendo Stuff, Atari 65Xe, Commodore 128, Commodore monitor, Playstation (on bottom))

The Lego in the center is my NES case Mod. I always hated the look of the original so I built my own. I have a huge collection of Lego Technic, & Mindstorms. (I have other pictures of the Case)

Just learning how to play Ultima IV thanks to Atarimania. I use a modded NES->Atari XL/XE/2600 controller. I made it from my broken CX20.

A better shot of my LEGO NES mod

My Electronics Soldering area

Some of my Programming, Operating System dev, 3D modeling, Electronics/Microcontroller books.

Some of my 8-bit references

Well I hope that's my "humble" layout. I'd be interested to see other member's set-ups.

~zenassem

October 31, 2004

Awe, I wish it were Halloween Themed. But then Again I didn't vote so...

To take part, do I just play the game and then take a picture of my High Score? Are people allowed to use the Emulator? I'll play on my my actual Atari. So either I'll have to take a picture or hook up a VCR...

~zen

October 31, 2004

Hmm. I checked out some of the games form Poland, and I have to say they look and play better than most anything else I have seen. Most are from the 90's. Do they have some sort of secret for coding quality games.?I mean did they discover things that the hardware can do that programmers in the 80's didn't know.

Or is it just the fact that gaming in general changed, and had brought forth new ideas and new takes on gameplay?

October 31, 2004

Thanks for all the information.

There are no active users' groups in New York for the A8 of which I am aware; you will probably find other Atari enthusiasts at a local C64 club (they do tend to be more numerous).

It's so crazy, with all the people in the NY area and no Atari Users group/club. I own a C128 So I can infiltrate the Commodore groups and convert them all to Atari.

Well I'll have to start my own club. Right now I'm the sole member of

L.I.A.R.S. (Long Island Atari Retro Scene).

I might have to work on the name???

~zen

October 30, 2004

Atarimania. That's some list. I better put in for some vacation time. Thankyou!!! And if you run www.atarimania.com that is one hell of a site.

I just played jumpman and it is a great game. It reminded me of load runner so I downloaded that and began to play (the Broderbund version). And it was as good as I remembered. Very fast paced action!!!!

~Zen

October 30, 2004

I would like to purchase this text.

Atari Graphics & Arcade Game Design

By Jeffrey Stanton with Dan Pinal

It's online at http://www.atariarchives.org/agagd/

Prefer good condition.

~zen

October 30, 2004

Thanks. I lot of these games I have never played. I have Ultima IV but I'm going to see if I find the manual somewhere. I remeber playing this when I was younger. If anyone one has strategy information on Ultima IV, please let me know. (ie. How much of the game is really determined by the responses is set by the responses to the Cards in the beginning?)

~zen

I am also looking for a text/graphic adventure I used to play. It was based on the Incredible hulk. The opening sequences you have to bite your tongue to turn into the hulk and break free. I have searched for Incredible Hulk, and adventure games but I cannot seem to find it.

I am also looking for a text adventure with script font, that was based on spiderman. I can't find this one either.

October 30, 2004

Just checked, Very cool site. But I should have stated Atari 400/800/xl/xe/xegs instead of 8-bit. I need cases like those for atari computer line.

2600's have everything. I'm jealous!

~zen

October 30, 2004

Thanks Blackbird? Man this site is amazing. Nearly every oddball question, and someone has an answer. And Fast. You guys are great. :wink:

~zen

October 30, 2004

This is a big day of questions for me... But you guys are the only ones who can give me the facts. Thanks for any help.

Is it possible to get my atari online 8-bit 65XE online via broadband cable connection? Is there any information on getting a 802.11b wireless working on an atri 8-bit? Any Webrowsers I could use?

I have sio2pc cable. Is there any software that will let me use my PC's wireless card to pass information via SIO two an atari Client/browser?

I have a 1040ST being delivered in the next week. Any possibility of doing something on them.

~zen

October 30, 2004

Thanks. So far that's a great start. Being American we seem to be out-of-the loop when it comes to the releases and the scene in other countries. Well at least I am.

If someone good give me a link to some of the 90's games/demos that I should look at that would help. I tried going to the ABBUC site to get links, but since I can only read English I get lost at many of the sites, and don't know where to go to download. Any help in this area is appreciated. Damn I wish I could speak Polish!!! My mother speaks fluent German, so I might have to employ her to help me out there.

Oh yeah, If there any active User Groups Clubs, I could Join, I would like to know about them.

~zen

October 30, 2004

Does anyone know if B & C computervision sells the Cartridge cases to put homebrew boards in? if not any other reputable distributor that sells 8-bit cartridge cases?

How come Atariage sells the PCB boards but not the enclosures? Are they hard to come by? Does anyone produce reproduction cartridges for homebrew products?

Thanks

~zen

October 30, 2004

Can anyone suggest some "Must Play" atari games/demos? Please don't assume that they are to common to list. It's been a long time since I've played many of the games, and unfortunatley my memory seems to be skewed.

And the games I do remeber were choices I made when I was 7-12 years old, so I'm sure there are a lot of complex games that I would enjoy now that I didn't have the patience or instructions for back then. ie. "Seven Citied of Gold". I have no idea how to play, but it looks interesting.

If you post a game that it complex, it would help me if you could include an online instruction link if you know about them.

I know about Alternate Reality series (but I don't know how to play it, so I think I might need to read the manual).

Thanks for anyone who can help. I'm also interested in must have utilities, Demos (ntsc), speech tools, peripheral's, art packages, sound graphics, programming, books, mods, SIO2PC apps (ie atari810, atari800winplus, EnvisionPC etc..),articles...

Pretty much everything. So if you have something that is a "MUST PLAY", "MUST HAVE", "MUST READ" for an Atari Enthusiast/Programmer, please share it with me.

Lastly, I have seen some ATR conversion utils, but is there anyway to take .exe .bin files for the emulators, and put them on an .atr disk so that I can SIO2PC them to my Actual Atari via Atari810 drive emulator.

Thanks to everyone for your help and recommendations!

~zen

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