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zenassem

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Posts posted by zenassem

  2. Posted

    twn/f2,

     

    Wow! Thanks for that list. It sure brings back some memories. It would be fun to post some screens of the games they cracked. Anyone who can help establish a list of cracked games to each of these individuals/groups, please share. I wish I had all of my disks from back then.

     

    @Atari Smeghead, thanks for clarifying C.H.A.O.S. and their activities. I knew they played an important role in the Atari scene.

     

    ~Zen

  4. Posted

    I know this is the 2600 board, so I appoligize for spending so much time here discussing the A8 computer line. But I have some questions? (IF someone would prefer to PM me the answer rather than tying up this discussion, that would be fine)

     

    "The Reason For My Conusion"

    ================================

    Ok, I know about:

     

    1) All the modes and GTIA/Antic detaills

    2) Familiar with much of the DL, and DLI capabilities (ie. mixed modes, Horiz. & Vert. Scrolling.

    3) The color pallette

     

    -Even C64 titlescreens always looked better than Atari if the game was released on both systems . I think that the ease of putting all 16 colors on the screen at once had alot to do with it.

     

    -Max colors can be misleading. I would rather have 16 good colors that I can "EASILY" place on the same screen at a decent resolution, than to have a choice of 256 but only 5 on the screen at the same time (ie. Antic #4). Now I also know about the GTIA mode that allows 16 colors 1 luminance, but can anyone tell me how the resolution compares to the 64 graphics mode?

     

    - I also know that there are techniques that can be pulled of to display more colors (I actually have a Compute! program that displays all 256) but (to me) it's very complex, unintuitive, and difficult to pull off. And there's the Artifacting techniques. But these are much to cumbersome to utilize fo a bitmap title screen.

    ===========

     

    So here are my questions:

    A) Which computer "can" display the best quality (quality = acceptable resoultion + ammount of colors)?

     

    If the answer is Atari...

    B) Then was it just that is wasn't "easy" for programmers to puill off? Why do all the bitmap graphics look better on C64 (both title Screens and In-Game)?

     

    Last Question

    C) Can the Atari (Regardless of how hard it is too pull off) produce the (SAME or BETTER) graphics that we see on the C64?

  5. Posted

    Kari,

     

    Thanks for elaborating. Don't worry about posting all the code, We'll try stick to main routines and possibly some important functions.

     

    I'll have to look at the dev notes for the lynx and libraries some day. Keep up the good work.

     

    ~zen

  6. Posted

    Wow, Zybex! You have been busy since your first post.

     

    The site is really coming together and is one of the best 8-bit sites that I have seen. So far, I love the layout and color scheme.I am definately adding it to my bookmarks. I'll browse it more tonight and if I have any comments I can either post them here or PM you.

     

    Keep up the good work!

     

    ~zen

  7. Posted

    I owned (and still own) most of the line at one time or another. (800,600xl,800xl,65xe)

     

    I don't really disagree with you guys, but here is what I meant.

     

    Memory might be escaping me, but I don't recall running any software on my 65/xe that didn't look like a game that was on the 800. Sure we had some XE carts, but It really wasn't a leap foward. It's not hard to tell the difference between a Commodore 64 game and anything realeased for the Atari's. The graphics were far superior on the 64 and we never had anything to compete with it.

     

    I may be incorrect, but the 800 was realesed years before the C64. The 800xl is not much different than: an 800 - a cartridge slot, - two game ports, and standard with GTIA, 64k ram. The 600xl is a (less professional 800xl) entry computer with 16kb ram standard, and Basically the 65/XE is a cheaper cased 800xl. And all of them ran original 800 quality games. So it's hard to see how the 800xl can be considered a competitor to the c64. Maybe to Atari it was, but without being able to produce similar quality games, 8 sprites etc. it was never a fair fight. And that's why we have atari800winplus and not atari65XEwinplus. And it's no accident that the majority of the highly regarded programming books are focused on the 800.

     

    But I still love my Atari's. (I just purchased my first ST yesterday. A 1040ST w/monitor $30 via ebay. (+$22.00 s/h)

     

    ~zen

  8. Posted

    As I'm reading more and more of these posts, I'm starting to see things a little differently. The Question should be:

     

    "How did Atari Succeed For so long??? And still have such devoted Fans?"

     

    I mean with this many mistakes, and we've probably only touched upon 2%. It's truly amazing!!!!

     

     

    It's hard to stomach that both the game consoles "AND" the Home Computer lines lost. I never understood why the Home computer line Never put something together (A8) that could compete with the Commodore 64. The 800 was great when it was realeased. I always preferred the look of the 800xl, and built in basic was nice. I liked the GTIA improvements. But did the home computer line really need a 600xl 1200xl 65xe 130xe 1400? etc...

     

    None of these was aimed at competing with the C64. Just the same product wrapped in different paper. Then to add insult to injury, we tie both lines together with the XEGS. It's like one big backwards loop.

     

    Look at Commodore. They go from a PET line, to a VIC20. Then smoke Atari with the C64. They fumble a bit with the Plus 4. But come back strong with 128 line. (even a repackaged C64 did well). Then they light up the Afterburner with the Amiga. Very nice progression. Of course, we all know that after the afterburner blew out, they crashed to the ground like a Lawn Dart.

     

    So I definately think that the Computer Line was lossed, because Atari never even bothered to compete with the C64. Then they blow the Amiga deal. I mean, how many times do you have to get kicked in the nuts, before you invest in a cup???

     

    Let's face it... the Nintendo deal could have saved Atari for a couple of years, but they would have found a way to ruin it. Just think we would have NES9600,NES9600xl,NES7700.... And all would be packaged with

     

    Super Pac-Man Bros.

     

    But that's what it's like to be an Atari fan. And we still love them. I think that's why they succeeded for so long. It's like the Boston Red Sox (and look where they are now). Atari was - and IS- more than the company, more than the Hardware, more than the games. It captured hearts and Imaginations. And for anyone who has held a joystick with a little orange button, it changes you. Some of the nicest people I have met in my life are atari fans. My eyes still light up, when I see )|(

     

    #############

     

    [/b]

  9. Posted

    Karri,

     

    Ahh C++, Very Nice! I don't have the Lynx. I used to own one, but by the time I got it I couldn't find games anywhere except for the New York City Tory 'R' US. This was before I had Internet access and places like ebay. One day I found my brother using it as a doorstop. The Lynx was cool, The display was bright and crisp. I might have to purchase one again.

     

    Could you post a small screenshot of what it looks like on the Lynx / Lynx emulator. Also it may help people to put out a blurb of what tools you used.

     

    ie.

    Language: C++

    Compiler: CC65 cross compiler

    Platform: Lynx (Lynx Emulator)

    also include any Graphic libraries or Dev Package macros

     

    and then post a small screen shot, or a url link to your online screenshot.

     

    There must be must be more to the code right? Like header files, and blit routines and such, or dev/API package. I don't know much about lynx development. Perhaps you could elaborate.

     

    I'm familiar with C++ and windows programming with DirectX, MFC, SDL, and I know the amount of setup it takes to get even pixels blitted on the screen.

     

    Very nice work. I can't wait to see the screenshot.

  10. Posted

    Any Atari system that you prefer. I myself will be using the 65XE. But I would like to see examples on as many platforms as possible. For instance, I would be interested to see what type of results a 2600 can produce. So take your pick.

     

    400/800/XL/XE

    2600

    5200

    7800

    XEGS

    Lynx & Jaguar (would be cool, but I'm sure I won't understand much of the code.)

     

    Some added examples:

    (If someone's ambitous they may decide to go for an interactive approach. Like a "character select" wheel (I'm referring to how games have you type your name or code using a joystick to select the letters/numbers). There's really a wide range of possibilities to explore. I wouldn't mind seeing some Ascii art in the mix.)

     

    Or try a routine that can be used to display in-game feedback like "Ready GO!" "Great!" "Level Complete" "Times UP!" or a billion other catchy game phrases.

  13. Posted

    Relying too much on brand. After the success of the 2600 I think they just believed that everyone would "ALWAYS" buy Atari - and they couldn't see past the good years to something like Nintendo.

     

    ***

    Ever since then it's been an endless script of great "Innovation" but weak marketing, production, and distribution plans.

     

    It almost makes me cry to look at some of the vaporware, or coming soon panphlets. Engineering and design wise they had so much talent. Alot of money spent on products that were never to be.

     

    Kind of like Sega's story, but at least they found a "working restructuring plan".

    ================================================

    I agree with the above as well,

     

    To many products/lines at one time. Within a few years I went form a

    600xl->800->65xe->130xe-> and wanted an ST but no $$$

    2600->5200->skipped the 7800 and eventually bought an NES!!!!

     

    JT taking over, would be like Gates running Apple today. It just wouldn't mix. Though I guess for people looking at the Numbers comparing 1984 to 1985, and 1986 it looked as though he did a good job. I never believed that his heart was in Atari, and therfore he never understood Atarians.

  15. Posted

    I'll try to start the first programming workshop.

     

     

    The first challenge is to design a "Text Effect" routine.

     

     

    (I'm not going to set to many limits on this one, because I don't know enough about all the systems to make it fair. So it's a pretty open challenge that anyone can participate in.)

     

    You can get as creative and as complex as your ability. Here are some basic examples of what I mean by text effect:

     

    (It might help to think of how credits are displayed in some of your favorite movies and/or video games. Also, Flash has some neat text effects built in. I'll post a link to a site that shows some different text effects:)

     

    i.e.'s

     

    1) You could simply have a ticker-tape like moving text. Or Marque. The routine would take a word/sentence n number of characters and scroll it across the screen from right to left.

     

    2) You could have the routine display the text garbled and random letters fall into there correct position. Like they are being shuffled.

     

    3) You could have the text positioned on a sinewave curve, to give a wavey appearance.

     

    4) Letters Fall from the top of the screen (almost like a falling snow-like effect) to build up the text

     

    5) The infamous Starwars trapezoidal effect.

     

    6) Heck, make a matrix screen saver if your into changing character sets.

     

    Those are just some basic ideas, Of course you can play with font, size luminance and color. Just have fun, and let yourself be creative!

     

     

    I'm not going to set a dealine yet. I want to see if there are any takers on stuff like this first. So will just elave it open-ended and see if anyone wants to share there ideas, creations, code, and thoughts.

     

    Zenassem

  16. Posted

    Trooper just said everything in two lines, that took me 4 paragraphs to express. I tend to get overly verbose. But the sentiment is shared. :wink:

     

    So, when I receive my documents for the 1050(and yes I'll tear through the plastic in less time than it took to code E.T.)... I'll compose them in .pdf format , and if anyone here is interested, I will e-mail you a copy. And the same goes for any other technical docs I get.

     

    And I'll pray that I don't get sued.

     

    :arrow: (BTW, books are a different bean, and I do respect an author's right to their material. It should only be shared with their permission or expressed consent. I'll leave book archiving to www.atariarchives.org)

     

    ~zenassem

  17. Posted

    Yeah this is where I my values on honoring copyrights enters a gray area. Like I said, back when atari was huge, I had about 8 Authorized Atari Repair and services centers within a 10 mile radius. If, I had a problem with a drive or computer, it made sense to bring it to my local distributor and have the equipment looked at by a certified technician. And, usually you developed a good relationship with the local dealer. Most of them were computer fanatics as well. On a few occasions they fixed my equipment on the spot and for no charge. It was a very personal experience.

     

    But where am I going to go now to have my 1050 drive serviced. And Atari is a completely different company today compared to the days they were making home computers. So, why should these documents, that are really part of our combined historical culture still be held to strict copyright standards. Especially since they are technical reference resources, and not a timeless novel. I'm no lawyer, but I believe that copyrights on texts is good for 2 generations or somewhere around 120 years, before they become part of the public domain. And I have no idea what limits would be set on corporate documents.

     

    It's just my feeling that we should have access to any documents that exist with regard to the atari 8-bits computers, consoles etc... The technology is no longer cutting edge, and shouldn't be regarded as trade secret any longer. Not at the pace technology moves. It's truly a way to honor these systems. It's what keeps these systems alive, and a part of the current culture. That's why my stomach turns everytime I hear a story about a homebrew being mulled into court for infringing on a game that's over 20 years old. But that's a whole other can of worms.

     

    Lastly, even if people aren't posting these documents, I hop someone is recording them digitallly to preserve the historical record.

     

    Thanks Zennassem

  18. Posted

    Would any experienced programmer here be willing to run a Programmers Workshop?

     

    The idea would be to create a weekly programming challenge that can be split into 3 levels Beginner, Intermediate, Expert. (And possibly categories like 2600,Atari 400/800/xl/xe.)

     

    Then people could work on the challenges and share ideas on how they went about solving them.

    ===============================================

     

    Beginner: Can use any language or combination of languages. No limit on instructions / bytes , code size etc...

     

    Intermediate: any language, some limitation on instructions, memory usage, code size etc...

     

    Expert: Assembly language, Maximum limitation on code size, memory usage etc, execution speed etc..

     

    ================================================

     

    The challenge could be in different areas of game programming: Graphics, ausio, sorts/search algorithms, scrolling, player/missile, animation, screen manipulation, etc...

     

    The idea would be to share and discuss coding skills and techniques.

     

    I really wish that I had the experience to run something like this. But I would like to participate in such a thread. And it would help to see how others approach a problem. As an 8-bit beginner (assembly coder) and beginner/intermediate (basic coder) I would find it intersting to see how tasks are accomplished a console as opposed to the 8bit computer line.

     

    Well if anyone else in interested please share. If no one has the time to run something like this than perhaps after I get my feet wet again I will be able to try it in a few months. Just thought this might be fun.

     

    Thanks

    ~zen

  19. Posted

    Trooper,

     

    Thanks for posting that. Very nice!.

     

    There are two repair manuals (that I am aware of) regarding the 1050 drive. One is the "1050 Field Service Guide" (which you provided), and the other is "1050 Service Repair Manual".

     

    I couldn't rember the contents of both. I believe the "1050 Service Repair Manual" is the more comprehensive of the two. Containing over a hundred pages, pull-out schematics, and illustrations of all assemblies.

     

    I should be receiveing it in the next couple of days, so I will be able to compare them. (My memory of these things is sometimes fuzzy).

     

    Regardless, all of these types of documents should be in digital format and made available to Atari Users. I understand that some people view these docs and other Internal Atari Documents as collectibles, but for those of us actually "using" the equipment it's a necessity. Plus, having them in digital format for those who wish to use the manuals, won't take away from the value of sealed Atari documentation. Well that's my 2 cents on the matter.

     

    ~zen

  20. Posted

    Well the Dark Chambers XL/XE is quite playable. A big improvement over the Gauntlet port. The firing is more responsive, and the player movement faster and more precise. It looks as though they decided on using color to emphasize items. I looked at the dlist, and it is done in Antic mode #4 with DLI nearly every scanline. The scrolling is quite smooth, and without the flicker that I see in Gauntlet. There are some things that I wish could have been done.

     

    1) Player movement while firing. What I mean is, I wish that if you are holding down the fire button, and a direction, that it would move the character inbetween firing.

     

    2) Background music.

     

    3) Level design. Seems dull compared to a genuine Gauntlet level.

     

    I believe "Dark Chambers" working title was "Dandy Dungeon". I didn't realize Dark Chambers was released for the xe. I thought it only existed on the 7800.

  21. Posted

    Oh! I just remembered that TMR said that the commodore 64 version was done using character set animation. He also stated that the characters move 4 pixels horiz, and 8 pixel, Vert.

     

    I haven't played the C64 version in years, so I don't remember how the animation looked. Perhaps TMR could elaborate more on how it works, and if it looks good or not.

  22. Posted

    I just realized I read DanBoris's post wron. He was already taking the 4x8 resoulution into consideration. I don't know how I will Get around the Clunky movement bit. I will need to think about this some more.

     

    All of you guys are really making good suggestions. I can't thank you enough for your efforts.

     

    @Schzpup

    That looks really nice. I didn't see it before my other post. I'll download your zip now. That's exactly the level of graphic quality and color that I pictured could be done. The movement business that Dan brought up will be a big hurdle though.

  23. Posted

    DanBoris,

     

    I think the problem gets even worseusing antic #4 is worse. Because the actual bits in each horizontal line define the color. So rather than having an 8x8 resoulution I actual only get a 4x8.

     

    Unless I am mistaken, or missing something.

     

    This would meant that to produce a standard 8x8 character I would have to have 2 4X8 characters side by side. So following your thoughts on needing to use multiple chars for 1 enemy, I would have to multiply that by 2 to get the equivalent in antic mode # 4.

     

    I'll try to find the Shamus example.

     

    I have been looking through the "Arcade Graphics And Arcade Game Design" book on www.atariarchives.org

     

    Thanks for all your help DanBoris :)

  24. Posted

    More often then not, the intros were better then the games themselfs, atleast on the C64.

     

    Very true! Same for the Atari. In fact some of the disks I only loaded up to watch the intro, Not to play the game. I am trying to research this topic, and I guess these early crackers were the start of the DEMO scene. Eventually, rather than cracking games, the "crews" devoted their efforts to creating those awesome demo disks, and pushing the limits of graphics and sound.

     

    ~zen

  25. Posted

    Bring out the CLUBS!!!

     

    I didn't know about Atari800Win_Plus monitor feature :roll: !!!

    What other things can the emulator do? I guess I should have RTFM!!! LOL!! I'm an Idiot!!!

     

    Even though someone else referred to it earlier, I didn't pick up what they were talking about.

     

    I haven't used the emulator much. I only use it to play cart images. And the only reason I am doing that is because I don't know how to convert .rom .com -> .atr, so that I can sio2pc & Atari810 (disk emu) with my actual Atari. I really need to spend some time reading the docs. I really have no Idea all the things that I can do with the emulator.

     

    @DanBoris,

    Thanks for the info. Do you agree it would be better to have the enemies (and possibly the level map?) as altered character maps, and displayed in Antic mode #4.

     

    I worked on the beginnigs of a game like this on the c64/128. Though it was easier bacause of the way the c64 displays color in it's regular text mode(like gr.0 for atari). And the fact that you don't have to understand all the indirection (screen ram, clor) that Atari uses. Every 8x8 square in texmode can be set to a certain color.

     

    Thanks Zen

     

     

    ~zen

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