dark willow

An improved Videl in FPGA has been done already - see the SuperVidel project by Nature. However, as it's designed for CT-6x upgraded Falcons, it doesn't need drivers as such (Falcon TOS 4.x supports it natively), so software would have to be written from scratch for it to be usable on a TT / MSTe. Also the SuperVidel is a highly complex design which is consequently very expensive - it's somewhat "overkill" for the TT/MSTe. LP has suggested (over on the thread at Atari Forum) that an FPGA based ET4000 might be a good option, since NVDI already supports ET4000 on VME. That takes a lot of uncertainty out of the driver issue, though I've got no idea what sort of cost that would be - FPGAs are like the saffron of technology. So good and so many uses, but damn expensive.

Games don't, but since the TT and Mega were and are mostly used for applications, most software benefits from having a much larger work area and better colour depth. It gives a much better working environment, particularly if you are multi-tasking.

The stock PSU in the STs isn't that great. I think the output is sufficient (IIRC, about 80w) but the voltage isn't very stable, and there is pretty much no protection from spikes. The TT and Falcon ones are a bit better (and were designed to power hard drives from the start). If you are going to mount an internal drive, I would recommend putting in a DC-DC micro-PSU while you are at it - like these

Just giving a heads up to users here - trying to gauge if there is any interest in a new VME graphics card for the TT / MSTe. I can't design or produce it, just putting ideas and show of hands out there for any bright young hardware gurus who might be interested. The discussion thread (and poll) is over at Atari Forum - LINK TO THREAD

I don't think any *games* came out on cart, though I remember reading somewhere there were some commercial games which used a basic dongle for copyright protection (you needed the dongle in order to run the game, even though the game was on disk)

I think the Firebee project says a lot about how people out there really are passionate about the platform. - http://acp.atari.org/

Just like M$ Windows your better off with the older versions of the OS, it's funny how things just come back around like that. Well for serious applications TOS 2.x is preferred as it has a much improved file system and disk support, but if you are using your STe for games it really isn't worth upgrading, Very few (if any?) games actually need TOS 2.x.

I'm just getting back into coding after years away from it. Before I only used the very unstructured Atari Basic on the 8-bit, so pretty much starting from scratch on the ST. I played around a bit with Lattice C, but have settled on GFA Basic. It's by far the best documented language, with a lot of modern guides and libraries out there to work with - and LP and others have produced a lot of modern coding utilities for GFA development as well and the language has quite an active community (see LP's homepage). On the downside, GFA compiled code is not - at present - executable on the Firebee, so if you are thinking of developing specifically for that system, you will need to look elsewhere.

I think the OS does get in the way to some extent, though that doesn't make the Lorraine a worthy successor to the GTIA, and I for one wouldn't have minded having some of Lorraine's eye candy in the ST The first version of WorkBench / AmigaOS was designed externally by Metacomco, and was a last minute dash so I am inclined to see it as being another MultiTOS, trying to undertake a project that was too ambitious, in too short a space of time, and outsourcing the work to people who haven't been involved in the project and the hardware design team from the start.

Don't say that. After all, it was "a brother from another mother" considering it had Atari DNA in it through and through. Granted, the GUI left a lot to be desired [iMHO], although that's definitely not the case with the "modern" AmigaOS 4.x... I agree. The Amiga hardware had a lot of Atari design philosophy and know-how in it, and it was only the vagrancies of corporate horse-trading that led to it bearing the Commodore name. I have to agree about the user interface as well. I had an Amiga 600 briefly, and Workbench and the whole disk-based nature of AmigaOS was a deal-breaker, and really gave me a renewed appreciation for TOS.

Any of the ST/Mega/TT/Falcon systems can get online, even under plain TOS with either serial port access or using something like the EtherNEC for ethernet connectivity. Email, FTP, Usenet, IRC and IM (there is an ICQ client on Atari) are all OK on pretty much any spec machine, though I'd say a 4mb ST with mass storage of some kind (hard disk/SatanDisk/UltraSatan) is the sane minimum. Configuring it can be awkward - but there's a lot of info out there to help you, plus a strong community The bad part is WWW browsing. If you only access simple sites for basic things then it's OK. Project Gutenberg won't test your patience too much, but don't expect to be using Youtube or some flash-o-rama webpage, and do make sure you keep up with the meditation, because patience is needed! You will be pushing any Atari to the limits of both hardware and software when it comes to modern web page rendering in "real time". Turning off the graphics help, but also be concious of what pages are friendly to smaller display resolutions. Few things are more annoying than horizontal scrolling, especially when the system is running slow. If you can get a CT-6x system with decent graphics (CT-PCI with Radeon, or Supervidel) then you will find life considerably easier in terms of waiting, but flash and funky java scripts will still not work - that's software not hardware.

Apparently it's because we need the table to put dinner on for men because they can't cook. Meh. I use it to dissemble my Atari gear - sometimes even to put it back together again too

If you want to run games, then avoid the TT030. It's a VERY interesting system and a great design, but it won't run most ST series games (neither will the Falcon, though that system does have some games of its own). The stock STe is probably your best bet. They are easily available, cheap and reasonably flexible. You can run STe only games, and use SELTOS to run the really old games that need TOS 1.02. The Mega STe is an interesting system and is reasonably compatible, but you don't see many around - and you will be using SELTOS a lot more to get games going, since they use TOS 2.x rather than the 1.62 stock STEs use. The main advantage of the MSTE is that is has a 16Mhz mode and SCSI support for mass storage, but most games will only run in 8Mhz, and you already have the Ultrasatan for mass storage, so I don't really see the benefit to you in an MSTE. In terms of modern hardware goodies, you can get ethernet, USB and IDE for any Atari through the ROM port with Netusbee and Paksud, and Ultrasatan likewise works on all models, as it uses the ACSI port - just make sure the DMA chip is OK (as has already been mentioned - though I've never had a duff one myself).

I'm not sure the march of the wintel clones was the only thing going down at that point. In Europe there remained quite a few niche markets, which is largely how Apple clung on before it became a fashion brand. Atari systems had a pretty strong toe hold in the music industry fairly widely, and in DTP and academia in Germany. Had management zeroed in on that, then some sort of survival as an actual engineering concern could prob. have been pulled off, though very close relationships with people like Steinberg, DMC/Invers and ROM would have been needed (something those companies would likely have welcomed, given the investment they had in the platform). The Jaguar I don't really see how anyone at the time could have avoided, I must admit. Getting out an up to date console with modernised classics like Tempest and Defender obviously seemed a winning strategy. The only real avoidable issues were Atari's (as usual) craptastic developer relationships and PR - but I don't think solving them would have saved the Jaguar, though it might have helped sweeten the pill a bit (i.e. taking the Jag. to N64 rather than 3DO levels of fail)

At the time, I was too young to really know what was going on inside Atari, though I was vaguely aware of the name Tramiel. I think he let Atari's engineering tradition slip somewhat - the vast array on peripherals and customisation that went into the 8-bit didn't really get replicated with the ST, but the ST was still a great system, and TT030 is definitely one the finest computers I've seen. And what with projects like the ST-book and STpad/STylus as well as the microbox Falcon 040, the engineering tradition was still extremely promising. However, the guy himself seems to have been personally reprehensible, and, IMHO lacking in vision in the way many private businesses do. In the drive to cut costs and meet arbitrary and unrealistic deadlines, he forced engineers to cut corners. The Falcon is a case in point (no pun intended!). It wouldn't have been hard to give more time and budget to the Falcon and make a really great computer that might well have given the A1200 a real run for its money. But by driving down costs and development time so hard he crippled it at birth then took his own decisions as proof that Atari couldn't compete with "real" computers and should only do games... I guess that's one of the faults with putting profit ahead of product that happens in all private business, not just Tramiel, but he epitomised it, took it to the Nth degree, and it wound up with him slitting the throat of his own company.

Looking for a either a SCSI adapter, or a Supra external hard drive drive for an STe. Aesthetics not that important, as long as everything works reliably. I'm in the UK so for the drive something domestic would be ideal, shipping being what it is. Anything out there???

Ah school - totally understood. Yeah, some of the mods are a bit expensive. It varies though. Once you're back into the swing of things, maybe you can grab some second hand? I've done that quite a bit and managed to acquire most of the really neat stuff, and saved a bundle. Yea, unfortunately I'm not doing computer science, as I'm sure that would provide access to stuff due to be "recycled" from the IT labs - always useful things in those skips! Second hand is a good idea... patience being a virtue! Decided to grab an STe as they are cheaper way to start, then look out for a SCSI adapter, spread the cost a bit and probably still come out spending less than a MegaSTe... Play around with GFA and see if I can make anything useful/creative(!) That's the idea anyway

To be quite honest, unless you want a "new out of the box" look for your system, I wouldn't bother. It doesn't affect the function of the system in any way, and you will know when the drive is read/writing because you hear it. For me the fiddly bits involved in getting inside the ST in the first place (all that lovely 80's sharp metal shielding) and then the key'b as well don't seem worth it to replace one LED...unless you are like me when you like taking things apart to see how they work...or did, until I took them apart

Thanks Been busy with uni commitments, and had to sell a lot of my stuff too. Hoping to get back into the scene a bit though, probably just play with GFA and XL basic a bit with more stock gear though, hardware mods are too damned expensive!

Some very good points here, IMHO. Whilst Atari's marketing and customer support was always pretty awful, I think the Jaguar wouldn't have worked even if it had the best marketing team in the world. As you said, the period the Jaguar was released was an awkward time, and Atari were not the only ones wrong footing it. The CD-32, CD-i, 3DO and 32X all crashed and burned, and the Saturn never really took off outside Asia. As for the idea of a resurrected Atari, I personally wouldn't want that in terms of game consoles, and I'm not even that ecstatic about the name being used for new games. The concepts and tricks involved in making the classics just doesn't translate well to the modern game environment, and with a few exceptions I really don't find modern (post 16-bit) games that playable. My bigger regret is that Atari quit the "serious" computer business. I think a lot of their designs and ideas in that arena were years ahead of the game with things like the ST-book, Portfolio, STpad and even a lot of the ideas for the 8-bit line like graphics tablets and interactive learning. However, that died thanks to poor marketing and bad business decisions, particularly with the 68030 systems, and there is no way for that situation to be undone now. Atari as an engineering and design entity is not dead awaiting revival, but actually destroyed. All the engineering talent has gone. The real hope for the computing platform is with the community projects such as FireBee, the 7800 extension and so on. The best that Infrogrames-Atari could ever really hope to do is keep working on the Flashback idea, perhaps repackaging them as full retro-consoles in the way they are marketed - e.g. more closely modelling the case on the originals in terms of size and style, packaging, adding a cartridge slot as standard (as has been done on Genesis/Megadrive clones) and the likes. Anything beyond that is expecting a software company to get involved in industrial R&D, which is something they have neither the ability, money nor inclination to do.

I'm guessing it was because their market research suggested more Europeans would use a monitor with their system than in North America. It kinda of makes sense in that in the US Atari was seen more or less solely as a games platform, whilst in Europe there were more people using the system for "real" work.

Personally, I prefer the 800XL. I had a 600XL once but found the keyboard considerably less comfortable and responsive than the 800XL. Whether or not it was a one off I couldn't say, but just my personal experience, but it made programming and word processing a pain. Also, I prefer the 800XL aesthetics wise, the very short back of the 600 is great if your tight on space, but gives it an "unbalanced" look in my eyes, and the smaller form factor seems a minor benefit for having less memory and no monitor output as standard. The 800XL has a decent amount of RAM as standard, which will play most games and run most of the original "serious" software too, through a composite output to boot. One last thing is that the bigger case also means it's easier to fit any further upgrades. It's big enough to get a 2.5" drive inside, if you want to go for mass storage.

As said, TOS run on 68030 systems (Falcon and TT, and the 040 and 060 upgrades can use TOS as well), so was certainly not restricted to the 68000. A lot of the development work in Atari (and by other developers) was done on a specially produced class "4160" STs factory equipped with 4mb RAM. I'm not sure if they were originally available to the public, but I have seen a few kicking around since. I'm not sure. Atari did not own any *rights* to it, but to what degree it modified for the platform I'm not sure. I don't know, but I imagine, given the nature of the TT hardware, a lot of work would have needed to be done on prototypes of the system itself, given that it had some unusual hardware. I imagine other 030 systems were needed for more routine work, possibly Apple or SUN systems, or maybe hacked Mega STes, which share some TT hardware. Deemed un-neccessary for a business workstation, and the TT was powerful enough that the CPU could shoulder more work. As has been said, there source code is out there with developer names included

IIRC Like the Falcon one, it's built into an IC and pretty messy to replace That's normal. It's a standard VGA out. It will give you the normal resolutions, but not TT-High, which needs a special monitor. Not sure. I imagine the TOS version would be some guide. There were multiple TT TOSes BY default they don't have one, it's integrated like the TT and Falcon. Most graphics cards on the TT use the VME slot like a normal expansion card, though the Overscan TT board also needs several connections soldering direct onto the TT video chip on the mobo and works differently (expanding the resolution of existing modes rather than introducing new ones). TT's have a 1.44mb HD drive as standard. I would replace the drive. Atari didn't make it's own (they are just standard drives with an Atari facia replacing the standard PC one), and any of the older style drives with jumpers to configure the drive should be fine. You sometimes need to fiddle with the jumper settings. It might be worth cleaning and givinng it an overhaul first. Must be gunked up inside. Ethernec is the best solution for the TT. Note you may well need to modify the case slightly, as the body farings on the side of the TT can make it hard to fit an ethernec connector into the ROM port. I had to get a metal file and shave down the faring a bit around the port to allow a proper fit. TOS/STing or MagiC/STing are a good setup with EtherNEC. You still NEED the floppy though. I don't think there are are as common, as the TT in it's day was more a business machine and so never as widespread, less hobby upgrades were available. TT-RAM cards are the most common, and show at start-up as TT-RAM when it runs the POST. That's more than enough for most things TBQH. The main bottleneck to speed on the TT was the stock SCSI drive. Replace it with a newer one and it will run like a dream. Get a CaTTamaran board too (CPU overclock to 50-something Mhz) and you have a damn fine system. It's easier just to download NVDI disk ZIPs online and copy then over. They are out there quite a bit. PeST uses PS/2 type ports, so it's not that. Not sure what it is. Neither TT nor ST need hardware to run serial mice, so it must be doing something else. TT has RS232 standard serial ports on the back, the number varies, but at least 2, and sometimes more. Yea. All TT's have tos 3.xx. Their hardware is VERY different to the ST, so a new version of TOS was essential. No need for it.

Right now I have and 800XL, Lynx and a 2600. I did have a Jaguar, TT030, Falcon030 (CT60) and STe (case mounted with AdSCSI, gfx card and EtherNEC) at one point, but I had to sell them to fund uni. I was very close to selling the 800XL too, as I hadn't had space for it where I was living, and it was boxed up at my family home. When I got it out to test it all and clean it up to sell I couldn't get rid of it, so now when I go home I grab a chance to hook it up and have a play. Should moving into bigger accom up here with my partner soon, so going to bring all my gear up and hopefully get back into programming 8-bit stuff, uni work permitting. I really resent not having my TT030 anymore, and I'd love to have one again as I do think they were by far the best computer Atari ever did.