Game codes for Micro Prose Wargames

[Game codes for Micro Prose Wargames]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:04 AM, Gunstar said:

I just started getting into war games for the Atari in recent years (I didn't have the patience when I was younger, except for RPG's, otherwise it was arcade style games I played). Though so far I've only played a couple, from SSI and Avalon Hill (Carrier Force and Legionnaire) and just got Wargame Construction Set, which I have yet to try(computer down for repairs and upgrades). How do Micro Prose war games compare to SSI war games and what are the top suggestions for both publishers? Avalon Hill games seem o.k., at least the one I have, but I think they are earlier and more primitive than the SSI and Micro Prose games. Datasoft also has a few, are they good and how do they compare to these other publisher's games too?

 

Obviously it seems I should check out at least the three mentioned here...I'm not just downloading these to play though, I've started collecting original releases, if the price is right and complete and good condition. I do this for the extras included, like maps, and I prefer to read real manuals instead of PDF's.

 

And are there other publishers that put out war games of any note besides the four companies I mention here?

I've been playing war games on the Atari for years, so I can point you in the right direction.

The Microprose games are all similar, and obviously use iterations of the same engine. They are all 'chit and counter' style games, mimicing the old 80s era hex and cardboard counter war games. They're all quite good, each one modeling a different time or theater (80s Nato vs Warsaw, Western Front, North Afrika and Vietnam). If you like one, you'll like them all.

SSI has a lot more variety. You'll get tactical level games, but also operational and strategic level stuff. Some games are chit and counter style like Microprose, while some (like Wargame Construction Set) actually depict units and do a kind of we-go real time thing. They also have old west, naval, air and sci fi strategy games. Tons of variety and quality to their Atari library. 

 

Avalon Hill is more of a mixed bag. Their stuff is all early in the Atari 8-bit line, so much of it uses hybrid basic/asm code and can be primitive and slow. Quality is all over the board too, though their good stuff IS quite good. Datasoft has some decent games, like Bismarck, but it's a distant fourth place.

There are other companies that put out strategy titles, my favorite being Epyx, which released some really clever titles like Crush Crumble and Chomp (movie monster strategy game where you play/design the monsters), Invasion Orion (turn based starship combat that is far more playable when you use a modern basic port) and several others, some of which alternate between strategy and action, like Dragonriders of Pern. Many of their Apshai games could easily be considered strategy too, particularly the time limited 'one off' games like Rescue at Rigel or Morloc's Tower.

There's a lot more to discover than you might think!

[Rudy J. Ferretti (rjchamp3) Murder-Suicide]

I wish I could say I'm surprised. A good friend of mine was harassed by this guy for years. If I had a dollar for every red flag he displayed over the years, I could buy a new game console. He had a major personality disorder of some kind and was very, very unstable (and very scary to my friend).

I'm so sorry for the family of the murdered woman. They had to know, as my friend did, that this guy was really bad news. 

[Looks like my gear has to go....Yet another rollercoaster.]

A bit late to the party, sorry to hear about your troubles! 2020 seems to be kicking a lot of asses, sadly. Threw a little your way. I know you reached your goal, but we Atarians gotta look out for each other.

Hang in there man. Hope it gets better for ya.

[RIP Curt Vendel]

Yeah, he was a great guy. I've spoken with him a couple of times over the years, and like many of you, I've been very surprised/intrigued/thankful at the vast amount of documentation, prototypes, code, and information that he pretty much single-handedly saved from the dustbin of history and released here. A hundred years from now, that will be remembered much the same way that collectors who saved early film are remembered today. That history will even have a lot of that early Atari information and software is because of him.

He'll be missed. My condolences to friends and family.

[XM has shipped!]

I'll chime in with my sadness and condolences as well. Curt was a great guy, and his contributions to preserving untold numbers of documents, protos, software, etc from Atari will live on long after we all go to that big console in the sky.

Not only was he a great guy, and a huge Atari fan, he was absolutely critical to preserving early video game history.

He will indeed be missed. RIP.

[Kay-Bee toy store cheap Atari 800 games]

Absolutely I remember KB. They were the only place in town that carried obscure game stuff: INtellivision. Atari 800/XEGS etc (which in fact was the only time I ever saw A8 related stuff in a retail store in my old home town). They were also a fantastic source for late release Atari 2600 games. A big chunk of my scarce/rare stuff that I randomly picked up fback in the day came from KB toys. Great store.

[Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A]

3 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

That is quite a strong statement and I can understand if you feel that way.  Our graphic capabilities and art styles aren't for everyone.

 

I'm curious to know... would you agree and recognize that art is subjective and many people actually love the more simple style graphics (especially our family/non or casual gamer audience). 

The overwhelming majority of people actually love the look and style of Astrosmash.  But don't take my word for it, you can check out the hundreds of positive comments on the first look Astrosmash video we released earlier this year (which shows the game at about 50% graphically complete).  And those comments aren't even from our target market.

 

Around 26,000 views and only 53 down votes (54 after you watch it maybe).  

 

That translates to about .2% of people who watched it and disliked it enough to down vote it.  2 tenths of 1%.  I'd say that's pretty good odds and would support a claim that you may be in the minority.  Which again... is totally fine.

Can you give me an example of game graphics that you would prefer to see in Astrosmash?  Again, I'm curious to understand what and why you despise the graphics so much.

 

It's an interesting conversation to have.

 

p.s.  I appreciate that you are hoping that Amico succeeds so I hope my response doesn't come across as negative or being a smart ass... I am genuinely interested in understanding your thoughts.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Let me preface this by saying I'm taking the time to respond because I am very much a fan, I just think constructive criticism is more valuable than rampant positivity. I make no claims on being any sort of market expert either, but I can say this: being involved with the convention scene (I used to be one of the original organizers for PRGE), I have watched the rise and fall of a LOT of projects like this, whose fans were rabbidly enthusiastic, and whose creators were just as passionate about their product. They all failed. So take this for what it is: friendly advice from someone who is every bit the fan that others here are, but who does have real concerns. 

I think the main gripe I have, stated generally (and this has been echoed by many I've spoken with) is that a lot of the games look like mobile apps, in other words, visually bland/generic, and not something that would convince someone to buy an Amico instead of spending $50 (or whatever) more for a Switch, which also has tons of easy to play couch co op games, as well as Zelda and Mario.

 

Take Astrosmash, since you mentioned that specifically. I can jump on the google play store and find any number of similar looking games like, say: Space Inversion 2. Which is fine and all, but hardly something that's going to suggest to the average consumer stumbling on the Amico in a Gamestop to drop $250 or so on one, when they could have something very similar for free on the phone in their pocket, or on Switch for $10. 

Now, of course, it's the multiplayer/couch co-op focus that makes the Amico really a cool idea, I get that. It's why I'm planning on getting one. But I'm concerned that the look of many of the games is visually indistinguishable from the mobile marketplace, and that sort of impression has most definitely affected game/console sales in the past. It's not that the game PLAYS badly, it's that it looks terribly generic. You have a great idea in a tough market, particularly with the switch having really expanded it's couch co op offerings since your launch announcement. Generic isn't going to sell that idea. 

Of course, I'm only talking about SOME of your game demos. Compare Astrosmash with your Cloudy Mountain demo, which looks great. That demo uses a retro pixel art style combined with neon colored 'intellivision man' character graphics. It nails having a visually distinct style that also advertises your brand. If I'd had no idea what this was, I would immediately have pegged this as an Amico game based on looks alone, as it's appearance and gameplay look fun, advertise that it's an Intellivision product, and a new take on a classic game. It looks exactly like what you've been promising to deliver.  It's visually attractive and visually distinct, and the graphics and UI are not generic in the sense that it looks like any number of similar games on my phone. It stands out. 

I'm saying stuff like Astrosmash should strive to have a 'look' (graphics, style, UI) that sets it apart from the glut like the Cloudy Mountain demo does. 

I'm not saying all of this to be negative. I was at the launch event, and the Amico remains my most anticipated indie console, well, ever. But browsing this thread and youtube, I'm getting the sense that you might be a little to inclined to see the positives of what you're doing and gloss over constructive criticism, which is what this is trying to be. I may totally be wrong, which is fine, in fact, I hope I am. But I've seen a lot of consoles like this fail due to passion by the creators and hype from fans drowning out legitimate concerns. Take is as you will. 
 

["Stellar Track" for the A8?]

Check out Star Fleet I: The War Begins by Dr Trevor Sorensen.

It's based off the old Trek mainframe game just like Stellar Trak was, but it adds all kinds of great stuff (a campaign, way more systems, boarding enemy ships etc). It's probably the best 'upgrade' of the old Trek mainframe game, and there's a native Atari port. 

[Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A]

3 hours ago, N0mi said:

I honestly wasn't expecting a post like this after almost everyone here seemed to praise the presentation and the game footage. Like someone else said (sorry, I can't find the post anymore), after Tommy announced the new release date it was such a downer for me that I soon fast forwarded to the part where the games were shown. I expected a delay, but was bummed when it got pushed back that far. Was still hopping for Christmas, though. 

I wonder how so many people here would state the games look great when a lot of them don't? Moon Patrol was mentioned in several posts as a negative example and Nitro Derby is another. Something isn't right with the colors, the palette or whatever, the background (the track) looks dull and the cars look like someone did a copy and pasted them into an unfitting image. I truly hope those tracks were just placeholders for revised versions to come. I am well aware that this is all a work in progress, but those games still need a lot of adjustment and fine tuning... they really do! 

Yeah, that's why I felt it needed to be said. Lots of supporters here (me included) and we all want this thing to succeed like gangbusters... but I have serious concerns at this point. Like you, I'm hoping it's just a lot of early/placeholder graphics awaiting finalization, but we'll see. The other thing that concerns me is how much the Switch has blown up popularity wise since. When they announced the Amico, the Switch didn't have anything like the multplayer/couch co op library it has now. A list stuff like Towerfall, Hive Jump, Heroes of Hammerwatch, Killer Queen Black etc. Some serious competition now.

Hopefully, though, we're jumping at shadows and the Amico team will carve out a nice, small niche in the market and be successful long term. I really want it to be. And I'm glad they pushed back the release. From the last demo... it needs some more time in the oven.

[Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A]

I'll chime in as well. I found the latest presentation really disappointing. As others have said, many of the games look like something from an old flash website like Newgrounds or Android shovelware. I was at the initial launch event at PRGE and there was much talk about this amazing, custom designed 2d chip with millions of sprites. I'm not really seeing that here. A couple of the games look decent (mostly the one that use the neon 'Jeff Minter' style graphics), but outside of that, I'm not seeing anything that gets me even remotely excited outside  Cloudy Mountain, Nightstalker and maybe Breakout.

I'm rather shocked at how bad the graphics look on many titles, and most of the games suffering from bad graphics don't seem to be demonstrating anything new or particularly revolutionary in terms of multiplayer. Astrosmash is positively embarrassingly bad.

This system has so much promise. I love the passion Tommy and the team have for this, and I genuinely think a system catering to local co op that anyone can pick up and play is an untapped market. This last presentation has me worried though. Getting unpleasant whiffs of the Ouya.

I mentioned a year ago that the Moon Patrol port was concerning, and I'm sad to see a huge number of games suffering from the same issues (bad graphics, boring gameplay). Nightstalker and Cloudy Mountain both look great, they seem to be modern updates of the originals that add new/interesting spins on the source while staying true to the source material. Breakout as well. BUt most everything else looks like something I'd get for free on the Android app store with lots of ads.

Hopefully it's just early days, and my concerns will prove unfounded. I really want this to succeed.

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

6 hours ago, drac030 said:

I tried and it works in the OSRAM mode, but the copy I have, while executing the SAVE function, ignores the filename I have typed (it just saves the file as ".SC"). I have not investigated it further, I guess it may possibly be just a bad crack. Additionally the executable is packed, so it is not easily fixable.

Interesting. I'll try some other versions. The one I used did not work when switching to OSRAM.

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

Here's the BASIC/ML source code for B-Calc, courtesy of Atarimagazines.com. I've exported it into a text file for anyone interested in tweaking it:

 

B-Calc ML Source Code.txt

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

9 hours ago, drac030 said:

So what about trying to run it in USE OSRAM mode (instead of USE BANKED)? Does it help?

I tried that, my copy still did not work. I'm going to fool around with it more this evening and see though.

 

3 hours ago, David_P said:

ANALOG 63 has the source code for B-Calc.  Move it to MEMTOP, use $4000-7FFF for data, permit paging, store in 16K sheets within a larger "book", and you can have a 64K spreadsheet (with 2 byte cell references) where a 48K/64K machine can access one sheet at a time, but enhanced memory machines can have the whole thing resident in memory.  Plus there's space in RAM to grow the program to add more functions.

Very interesting! That sounds like it's very doable. I'd totally forgotten this was even in Analog, but now that you mention it, I do have a vague recollection. With the source code, this should be the easiest thing to port by FAR. Nice!

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

2 hours ago, Alfred said:

Yes, the .atx SynCalc (1985) from the Atari Wiki seems to work. None of the file versions appear to work. I looked at one and the init segment has a bunch of junk copying from $2000 to $20,X and vice versa. Didn't look like it actually did any i/o but I didn't trace into it very far either, so I don't know if it's just some code to bypass the original copy protection or what. I haven't found a VisCalc file version that works either. It would be easiest to start with a file version of whatever programs are available, since it's easier to disassemble that than a disk. Or maybe it would be easier to just write something from scratch, I mean it's a glorified calculator. I guess it would really depend on the macro language (whatever you call it) that these things have, how powerful it is, as to how hard it would be to clone say SynCalc. Too bad the VisiCalc source isn't available as a text file or something, there doesn't seem to be a tool to extract it from the Apple Dos disk format.

 

So a working binary file version of either SynCalc or Visicalc would be a good place to start, if there is such a thing.

 

Edit: SynCalc checks $FC82 (I think) for $A2. Not obvious why, it just changes some screen colours if it finds it. My stock XL OS Rom fails the test, so I'm not sure what it's looking for, Omnimon or something ?

There is also this thread which has a bunch of file/xex versions of various sheets I tried for anyone interested.

Yeah, it's a real shame that the source to Syncalc was lost, as the dev donated it to the public domain. He had no idea there was still interest, and sadly, disposed of the disks.

However, I've had some luck with the Apple II Visicalc sources. I found a way to extract and convert the files to PC text format. Seems to be a straight disassembly, without a lot of comments. I'm attaching the code below in case someone wants to look at it.

Edit: I should add there are also some 'DVU' files, which apparently are an Apple II 'development Utility File'. If anyone wants those, I'll post them as well. I believe they are application specific.

VISICALC_DISASSEMBLY.zip

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

1 minute ago, DrVenkman said:

Absolutely no doubt.

 

Realistically thought, the ATR version(s) from @DjayBee’s cracks thread (search the forum) and the ATX versions from the 8-bit Software Preservation Initiative do seem to work. I loaded up ATX versions on my SDrive-MAX and the ATR versions via the Loader in my Incognito, with a data disk ATR mounted as D2: and it didn’t lock up when booted and run - I could access the menus and so on.  So too does Visicalc. I actually tried that this morning during a break from work - took a couple minutes to grab a manual from Atarimania to see how to format a blank working disk ATR on my CF Card in the Incognito and use it to save files, then quit the program, booted it again and loaded up test file. So it works.

 

So at least there’s a way to use these programs, just not from an SDX command line. 

Oh, yeah, I've never doubted that. I've used them before from .atr files as well, and they do work fine... just not in Spartados X, which was the goal of this thread. Having to constantly juggle booting to Syncalc, then jumping back to Sparta to write, program etc is not ideal (obviously).

I was hoping that there were some tricks I had missed to get them to cooperate, but sadly, it seems like this won't be the case without a patch... which is sadly beyond my ability atm.

Still, SpeedCalc was a find, and it does seem to work, so that's something!

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

56 minutes ago, a8isa1 said:

Lord Thag, 

 

Sorry I can't quote you because of the multiple quotes in your reply.

 

In the first line of my reply I indicated that have saved and loaded spreadsheets using SpeedCalc in SpartaDos X.  However, you can't use SpartaDos X's drive letter notation.  You must use, for example, D1:my_spreadsheet.

 

-SteveS

Hmm, I think I may have had a bad version. I downloaded the AtariWiki enhanced version, and you're right, it does indeed save so long as you use Dx: notation. Neat! Well, that's something.

It isn't super stable though. It's locked up a couple of times on me when using formulas, and once saving a file. Still, it's something. With some fooling around we can probably figure out what it doesn't like. Nice find!

Still... I miss Syncalc. It's a much better program.

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

10 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Hmm, the version posted there doesn't seem to work in Atirra, just a flickering black border color. It just works for you ?

I believe that’s the one I downloaded (I downloaded like 10 different versions when I set my hard drive up a couple of years ago, so memory is a bit fuzzy). All of the .xex versions work under Spartados, (I’ve tried several). They all lock the system due to Disk IO/ DLI conflicts with SDX. 

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

17 minutes ago, Alfred said:

That link is invalid.

 

So is there a version of the 1985 SynCalc that works, period. And if yes, is there either a cracked version and/or a file version as opposed to a boot disk ?

 

Yes, see this thread. You have to use the .xex version. It'll run just fine, but any disk io crashes the system.
 

5 hours ago, a8isa1 said:

I don't know if SpeedCalc would suit anyone's needs but it seems to run. 

 

I don't have enough knowledge of SpartaDos X or spreadsheets to give this combination a good shakedown test.

I mentioned this in my second post. Like Syncalc, it does indeed run fine, but also like Syncalc, saving/loading does not work. In this case, it throws up an error 130 (non-existent device). Otherwise it does work. This and Syncalc seem to be the only versions that partially run under Sparta 4.x.
 

1 hour ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Has BBK Calc , ermmm BCalc already been tested with SDX ?!?

BBK's Bcalc

Download ATR

 

Yep. SDX doesn't recognize the disk format to even read it. Anyone have an .xex of this one to test?

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

5 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

Do either of them run as mounted ATRs from the Loader? If so, you can at least set us a set of program and data disk images to load together and run on boot.

You can run atrs from the loader, but they still wont work with a sparta file system, seemingly. Sure, I can just boot some .atrs when i want to use a spreadsheet, but it just seems odd, with all the other great things we have with SDX, that we don't have a spreadsheet that works.

It would be great to see something ported or created for Sparta X, it's certainly needed to make the A8 a fully usable 'distraction free' modern solution.

Syncalc seems the best candidate to port. Not only is it a great program, it runs fine under sparta until you do anything with file IO, which according to Jon/flashcatjazz, it leaves a DLI running during file IO which Sparta overwrites when using BANKED RAM (see this thread).

Next best would be visicalc. Some people have claimed to get it to run as an .xex version, but it locks up my Atari no matter what config I do. The sources for Visicalc DO exist though, for the apple II:

https://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=24477

If someone could hack the Syncalc file version to relocate that DLI elsewhere where it won't conflict, it would probably work. But I imagine that's less than trivial.

I've also tried all of the second tier spreadsheets I could find, like speedcalc, swiftcalc etc. All but speedcalc don't run. Speedcalc does run fine, and it even reads the directory correctly. But any save/load operation results in an error 130 (non-existant device).

Looks like we're SOL unless a talented hacker can fix one of these. Jon mentioned Visicalc ran under sparta in the thread linked above, is there another version (I have 1.74) that runs?
 

[Problems getting Platoterm to work]

Yeah, I was misreading 3.0.4 as 3.0.40, i.e., later than 3.0.14 which is definitely the issue. I've got an email in to Steve, we'll see if he can assist. Thanks for the help all.

[Spartados X and Spreadsheets]

This whole quarantine thing finally got me enough time to dig out and unpack the rest of my Atari stuff, and I've gotten my U1mb/Side2 combo updated with the latest Spartados as well, and have been diving back into fiddling with this setup beyond using it for loading games. It's surprisingly powerful for an 8bit PC, especially with The Last Word.

One of the things I would like to do is use the old Ataris for some light home business stuff, collection tracking etc. I like the idea of my personal data being offline and not internet-accessible anyway, and using an Atari as a sort of 'distraction free' word processing and data device. With APE I can easily mirror the files to a PC for storage on a USB stick or whatever so a crash or lockup doesn't lose my data. Mainly for fun of course, but one thing I need to make this work is a decent spreadsheet. I can get Syncalc to run just fine, but anytime you try and Save/Load it locks up on Spartados X (even using the 'X' command). Visicalc doesn't run either, at least the copy I have.

Is there a specific Spartados setup that works with either Syncalc or Visicalc? I'm curious if any of you have had better luck.

[Gyruss CAR and XEX patched.]

3 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

I haven't really been following this thread, but this same issue exists in the 5200 port. I've gotten stuck exactly like that a month or two ago while I was playing. It was incredibly annoying. 

Yep, this bug ha derailed a couple of great runs over the years. Nice to see it finally squashed!

[Problems getting Platoterm to work]

19 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

what version APE are you running?

3.0.4, which seems to be greater than the required 3.0.14 that Thom tested... but I'm suspecting that it's different, and that the downloadable version (even though I have a registration disk that can register it) is the issue. Thom PM'd me and confirmed I'm doing the correct things.

I've emailed Steve at Atarimax... hopefully I'll hear back from him this time about an upgrade to my old registration disk.

[Finally have a working 800XL!]

Whatever you do, get at least one of the modern PC/SD card interfaces. With the easy availability of software (Fandal, Homesoft etc) you can very quickly have an XL with thousands of games and programs at your fingertips.

It's pretty easy to set something like an SDRIVE to autoboot three or four hard drive images full of games (there are several posts if you search with such things) and never be bored again.

 

The most fun, though, is an Ultimate 1mb w/ Side2 cart which allows you to have several OS roms, alternate basic, flash card SD loader, and built in Spartados X with multiple hard drives, all on one CF card.

[Problems getting Platoterm to work]

4 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

yeah, I recall that as in issue both in APE and in emulators.... the fix was a metered flow of data as apposed to full on chunks of data.... if you still have issues select aternative internet modem type identifiers such as RAW etc. from within APE config.

I've tried connecting at 1200 baud, but no dice, it still does the same thing. I suspect you're correct about the metered data, but there are no settings in APE that I can see that allow a switch to RAW data that I can see. There are only a few AT commands as well, and I've tried all of them.

I'll PM Thomas and see if he has any insights. Thanks for the suggestions, all.