Tyrant
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Posts posted by Tyrant
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It's looks like it may possible be some kind of micro D connector, but I have not seen anything like it before and would have assumed from the external shape that it was a mini USB B connector.
I have not compared the size but I think they might be this http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/27268.pdf what do you think? They are the closest I have found in the catalogues I have at work although there is no way to be certain without purchasing some and trying them.
Hmm... not those, they have a rectangular profile. The outer profile of the nuon plug is indeed a classic D shape, but much smaller. The inner opening is rectangular, with four contacts slightly recessed in on the short side of the D. When my flatmate wakes up I'll see if I can steal his camera and take some decent photos, with a metal ruler along side so you can get an idea of the dimensions.
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Thank you, I found what looks to be everything I need, mostly in this thread:
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A lot of people do not like the idea of hacking up their controller as I found out whith my first attempt at a PS Controller to Jag interface, if I could see a picture of the connector I might be able to identify it.
I took a few pics for you, it's not easy to get my cameraphone to focus given the tiny size of it, but I did the best I could. Its very similar in construction to micro-usb, except smaller, and where micro-usb has slightly raised contacts, the nuons seem to be slightly recessed.
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Regarding building a rotary controller for the Nuon : apparently an analog controller exists, and Tempest 3000 supports it. But I don't know if you're supposed to rotate the analog stick or if it's just the standard left/right control scheme.
All nuon controllers (bar one) have analog, and it is just left-right variable speed. It's fairly handy, but still not as cool as a rotary. Also unfortunately the Logitech controllers lag REALLY badly with their analog sticks, so its often better to use the digital pad.
It seems that both the hardware and Tempest 3000 support a real rotary controller too, but details are missing.
Now that is awesome news.
Additionally, I was wrong : the Nuon controllers are not USB-based.
I thought it was too good to be true. Still, some of the JagWare lot are pretty handy when it comes to reverse engineering electronics and signals, right? Perhaps a project someone over there might be interested in? The issue of the plug can always be worked out somehow...
A plug solution:
Take one normal nuon controller. Cut off the plug and a short length of cable. Attach a common plug and line socket (4 pin mini-din maybe?) to the cut ends of the cable. Thus they can still plug into each other to function as before, and the adaptor can also plug into any newly made/converted controllers.
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Having given the matter some thought I see that you have a very good point, I stand corrected.
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http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/94279-optical-rotary-controller-project-completed/page__st__25__p__1811573entry1811573* A spinner for T2K that won't actually commandeer the D-pad so that the controller can be used for other gamesInteresting, added a reply in that thread.
I vaguely recall that the Nuon controllers are supposed to be standard USB controllers, only with a different connector. Doesn't solve the other problems, though.let alone the custom chips used to encode the data to the appropriate serial stream. I suppose the protocol could be reverse engineeredNow that is interesting... very interesting. If that's true it would open up quite a few possibilities.
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Here's a circuit I've drawn to allow you the use of either an optical rotary encoder or the standard D-pad, without interference, by toggling a switch.
I've not tested it, but it should work fine in theory.
Why not simply use a dpdt switch? The two centre pins going to the internal "left" and "right" traces, with the switch toggling between routing them back to the original d-pad contacts or to the rotary contacts? It would work just fine on the encoders I use, which are mechanical ones with 3 legs (left, right, common).
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Duuuuudes,
Here we all are - the Three Amigos of the T2K spinners! Very cool. It's nice to finally chat with the two of you after all these years.
Indeed, here we are
.I just wanted to tell you both (Jon and Tyrant) that you guys were a big influence in my decision to make and sell my spinners.
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I thought "How hard could it be?
As a friend of mine once put it: Aspire to Inspire before you Expire.
How hard? not very, as long as you can brace things so the pause button still works.
Some thoughts on the thread (and your "spat", Tyrant and Jon):
It's not really a spat, I was a little upset many years ago, since Jon released his first one about a week after buying one of mine, but everything was explained and resolved loooong ago, there's no ill feelings on my part.
* The whole "G" vs. "B"-series controllers argument
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Personally, I prefer the "G"-series controllers because the internal construction is simpler, but no one besides the three of us cares!
True 'dat.
* Who got there first? C'mon, does it really matter? All props to you both.
Guys - here we all are, the only three that have successfully built and sold these things.
Not quite. There's also JediJeff, who made and sold them before the dawn of time itself.
* Tyrant - go for it! You should jump back in with both feet. I've had a number of sales worldwide, and in the UK in particular, so the demand is there.
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eBay fees are highway robbery, but there isn't much else you can do. The same for PayPal - ridiculous fees, but no other viable alternative.
I've got three ready to sell, and I'll put them up on ebay sometime in the next few days (and of course let the forums all know).
I've also secured "distribution" with Dan Loosen at the GOAT store
I used to sell some to Nick Harlow of 16/32 Systems under a similar arrangement.
*You guys want to talk about real innovation? We should be thinking about the following list of projects:
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* A spinner for use with B2K (exclusively or combined with T2K)
* A spinner for Nuon/T3K
* A spinner for T2K that won't actually commandeer the D-pad so that the controller can be used for other games
I have some ideas for the first two, but not the time. How about you guys?
I've actually got an idea I'm planning out for a new controller, but I won't talk about it until I've actually got at least a prototype ready.
B2k can't support anything other than a D-pad, can it?
Since Curt just released the B2k source code however, it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to adapt it to use ordinary rotaries, and even auto-detect them, the way T2k would if we were following the techref doc (note: anyone attempting this, throw away the rotary description in techref, it's idiotic and nobody ever followed it)
T3k would be cool with a rotary, but a) I don't think he included code for them, and b) where on earth would you find nuon-compatible plugs? let alone the custom chips used to encode the data to the appropriate serial stream. I suppose the protocol could be reverse engineered and the chips replaced with off the shelf parts, but the plugs alone would make such a project a nightmare.
So, that was my two cents, sure to anger someone I suppose
Really? pah! not me, I think its great to finally hear from you. I was mostly out of the scene when you got started making yours, but it's good to finally have this little "chat". I wish you luck with yours, and any future projects.
Where the ancient kings are buried
New kings will rise and stand
And so the torch is always carried
Passed from hand to hand.
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I hadnt noticed the piano music in the video, is it from the game? Sounds very moody, its pretty good.
Not only is it in the game, it's coming from a music engine that owl wrote himself!
That guy really knows how to code.
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Wow that's going to take a long time to go through, but looks to be some absolute gems there, many thanks.
Spread these far and wide, make sure everyone has access to them, learns from them and uses them to everyone's benefit and for crying out loud - stop arguing and start coding, make some damned games - release them for free, let people try them out then if interest is high, then do a pre-order thing, take in some orders and make carts or cd's or whatever, but release the games first, even if you do a limited demo, just give people a free taste of games to play, but do the right thing by all and for yourselves and the jag community ---
Lastly - HAVE FUN!!!
VIDEOGAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN...
SO HAVE AT IT
Curt
Quoted For absolute, unquestionable Truth.
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The internals if the controllers is very different and the solutions that myself and Tyrant made in order to make a rotary are different (hence not a cloned product).
I bought that controller of you as I was interested in seeing how Tyrant made a rotary using a B type and whilst I now know how to make one have not done so as I gave my word to Tyrant 6 years ago now on this site and have been true to it to this day.
I've never looked inside one of the G series (gray rubber) pads, I would have assumed the plastics and boards are identical, but having just now opened one up I see they are quite radically different. I don't remember you giving me your word not to make them out of B series pads, but that would help to make a clear distinction for the future as to who made which ones (since all of mine have, as you said, been black rubber ones).
As for my pro rotary controlers nothing was ever short circuited I dont know where that came from?
I forget the specifics, but I remember someone mentioned that when they pushed one button, several others also acted as if they were pushed. I had a quick look at the upper pcb of the pro controller and spotted some diodes near to the d-pad that would cause that effect if you had cut them off and not replaced them. At least that's how I remember it, but I've just had a search through AA's epic back-history of posts and can't find the thread, so like I said all I've got is my rather vague and degraded memory.
Finaly Tyrant I wish you well for the future and hope you do make another batch as it is giving something to the atari community and gives people a choice between yours and mine. Sorry if this goes on a bit but it is very upsetting to be accused of cloning someone elses work when nothing is further from the truth and certain individuals perpetuate this myth for years
Yep, I can agree totally, having ones honesty brought into question is a horrible thing, especially when done so in public. For the record I feel no hostility towards you at all, I accept that you developed your version in parallel (although the timing makes it look otherwise), and when I said "cloned" I only meant that the components you used are (as far as I know) identical to the ones I used, as well as the design being the same (I didn't remember the gray vs black thing). I hope no offense was caused.
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It seems someone hasn't beaten my Tempest 2000 hi score yet
(see the T2K photo)
Nope, you're still there in the top spot.
JFUK 2k9 was, in my humble opinion, really rather awesome. Numbers were down from previous years, but the atmosphere was good and the venue was simply amazing. Next years event will almost certainly be in the same place.
I'll put my photos up later on, once I've sorted through them (and uploaded the videos of Nick H singing Cool for Cats).
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Screenshots really can't do this game justice. It's really smooth, the texture mapping looks gorgeous, the voxel landscape looks even better, and the lighting will really give you a feeling of being in the world.
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3do sounds weak
3DO sounds really weak when you consider that it was named thus so it could take its "rightful place" along side the stereo and the video, it was to be the 3D-O.
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I'm looking to understand how STSpeech.tos works, with the hope of porting it to other platforms, and before I go poking about trying to disassemble it myself, I figured it would be smart to check incase anyone either has the source, or has done a disassembly of it before and could help me pick it apart.
I know, a bit of a long shot, but it's such a commonly used voice I'm hoping someone has already taken it apart to see what makes it tick (or rather, speak).
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If there's interest in such a thing, we would seriously consider it.
We might find it useful too. 
You'd have to make sure the emulation was spot-on with the actual hardware (which means largely ignoring the spec). There are so many hard to reproduce bugs in the custom chips, having an emulator that did things "right" would lead to a load of games that would only run on the emulator, and crash mysteriously on the real hardware.
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(and I know what I'm talking about... I shared a room with Nick at Rochester)
I remember!
Are you coming this year? It'd be nice to see you again.
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Thanks for the show of interest. I'll definitely go ahead and make as many as I can find parts for. As for prices, what I did in the past was put them up on ebay starting at zero and let demand set the price automatically. It always seemed more fair (as if there is ever a fair way to distribute things when demand outstrips suply) to sell them by auction rather than have waiting lists or "the first ten replies get one" topics. Then again having said that, they consistently sold for £45 to £55 ($75 to $90, although the exchange rate was better then), and when I sold them directly (at JagFest for example) I set the price to £50.
Jonathan Ascough bought it from me off eBay, then used that to make and sell his own.
Yep, his were pretty much exact clones of mine. Except that he then went on to make some out of pro controllers, but didn't realise that a) Tempest doesn't benefit from the extra buttons, and b) when you cut circuit traces you need to patch them properly. I forget exactly what he did strangely, but it involved short circuiting some of the buttons together in a way that could have been easily avoided with a few diodes in the right places.
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Back on track....Where are the games.....we need more games....lets get game hacky
Possible games
Star Raiders
Isn't that what BattleSphere is based off?
Pacman (or the whole pacman collection, i.e original, Ms, pacland, Pacmania, and Jr)
There's already a version of JagMania, although I'm not sure how many levels it actually has.
Joust
Starcat started to write a version of Joust a few years back, but then dropped it. I think he lost the source in a hard drive crash.
A sequal to Cybermorph (which were'nt a bad game)
Uh... Battlemorph?
Something like either block out or some hack of tetris
There's a columns clone I believe, and a breakout clone, and a samegame clone, also Breakout2000. None are exactly tetris clones, but there are MANY block-based games out there.
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Good to see your comming, Omf is looking for someone to share a room with if that is any use.
As for the moinitor I am sure somthing can be sorted out one way or another.
Thanks but apparently I snore worse than Nick H
so I've got a room of my own already sorted out. -
This kind of bitching is what the community doesn't need.
It didn't need it years ago when I was still active.
It doesn't need it today.
You all need to get a fucking grip and stop acting like 14yo's.
Why must you all constantly indulge in so much fucking myspace-drama?
Seriously, why?
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Cool. I'm not actually goina take any pre-orders or waiting lists or anything like that, I've never been fond of those kinda things. This thread is just to generally sound out how much demand is likely to be if and when I have some available.
As for pictures, sure. I'm currently testing the ones I've got here (for use at JagFest if there are enough spare tv's), so I snapped a couple of pics for you.
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Hey guys, I've been hovering about a bit, and wondered if there would be any interest in another (fairly small) batch of Rotary Controllers. I'm running low on supplies (mostly mint controllers), so this would likely be the last batch I'd ever make.
Would there be any demand though?
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Y'know, money troubles be damned, I'm in (assuming the hotel still has rooms free).
If anyone has a spare monitor I might even be able to run the classic T2k Rotary contest again.
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Rotary Controllers
in Atari Jaguar
Posted
Interesting. I'll admit I know very little about the ChaosReins controllers, but all of mine have used a detented (clicking or stepping) encoder, with 36 steps per revolution. I'm pretty sure all of the ones by Jonathan Ascough have used the exact same encoder as mine.