Tyrant

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbared and unguarded" (When dealing with beta testers this is especially true)

Are all of these systems interoperable tho? Will a game writen for one system manage to load and run on another? Will game developers have to release different copies of their games, thus adding more work for them and extra confusion for the non-techie jag fans? P.S. Remember that Protector SE and BattleSphere are both very expensive, and lots of people cant afford to get both, lots of people wont even be able to get either. It seems to me that a market like this dosnt benifit from competetion about delivery systems. [ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Tyrant ]

quote: Originally posted by Thunderbird: Actually, there's a lot of things wrong with your statement. Which just proves my other point, there isnt much info easily availible to wannabie jag developers. I did look into the possibility about a year ago, I tried to find as much documentation and info as I could on the net, and came up practically empty, I found a few of atari's docs, which I seem to remember were insanely complex and very low level, but on the whole, I couldnt find much practical newbie advice at all. Not to mention that quite a lot of the reports are conflicting, you say the jaguar is a nice system to code on, and well documented, yet I've read in several places that its one of the hardest systems there is. What we really need is an easy cheap way to get development kits, and distribution setups, in a form all the big programers can agree on so you wont need jugs to play some games, bjl to play others, flash carts for yet more, etc, better yet would be if someone could find / crack the cd encription key, so no extra hardware is needed. How many different ways exist to get live debuging working? obviously there's alpine boards, which are too expensive for the amature coder I believe, how many different kinds of hacked jags allow debuging of code? and is anyone selling them completed so as not to have to rewire the boards, most programers dont like arnt really hardware guys hehe. We also then need a dedicated site that is well known just for jaguar programers, with totorials on how to write simple games, moving on to the more complex articles on 3d engines and such, Im sure if all the active jag developers put in a little time to help out the newbies, and if the efforts were all coordinated and availible through a single easy to use website, we could have a whole flock of new jag games.

Ok, I must admit that it was a long time ago that I looked for the info, and Im not entirely sure what I found even, but that info which I did find was confusing in the extreme. I am a fairly good coder, although I've never done... well essentially nothing in assembily. When I get time I will go through all the resources I can get my hands on and seriously give it a go. Oh and my point on the distribution / development hacks was that there are too many of them, a single, agreed upon system for distributing freeware / shareware games via the net would be useful. As far as I know (and I admit I have been out of the loop on jag development), currently bjl and jugs are the main systems, right? requiring extra hardware in the form of an expensive cartidge game or a new chip. Didnt Carl release a new system again to support cd games? Does that load them into the working ram like the other mods or does it actually run them from cd? It isnt a huge problem, but is there a single agreed upon standard for how to release games and get the most people possible able to play them? Anyway, I cant really add much more to this thread without more research, which I will do when I have time for it. I have presented my thoughts and opinions about how I percieved jag development, if I was wrong, thats great, I'll try to do some developing once I get time (I just started a huge vb project tho so I doubt I'll have much time soon).

I re-sent the mail again today, if you still didnt get it, you probably have a problem since this is the third mail I've sent.

Just wanted to let you know I still havnt recieved a reply to the reply I sent you after you emailed me. While I understand you probably have a huge email backlog, it would be good if you can get back to me fairly soon. Of course this is all assuming that my replies actually reached you. Appolagies for sounding a little impatient but its best to keep momentum up. [ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Tyrant ]

I think the problem, or rather one of the problems, for there are many, a sizeable proportion of which are continually cloging up the civil, commercial, and criminal courts, in all area's of the galaxy, and, where possible, the more corrupt ones, this. The previous sentance makes sence, that is not the problem, the problem is this: writing in assembily is a b*tch. Writing in 4 different instruction sets on 5 chips and having to work round the various bugs and innumerible timing issues in those chips is enough to give anyone a severely painful headache. While I've never tried writing anything for the jag, due to my lack of any skill in assembily, lack of dev tools, etc. I have tried to find / read some of the developer docs, and even tho Im a priety competant coder (mainly using high level languages tho, vb (for rapid development it rocks, once you learn its bugs), pascal, and still learning c++ on and off) it scared the crap out of me. I realise most Jag developers are too busy trying to actually write games, but a few really good tutorials with examples would go a looong way towards getting some new developers started. I for one would love to write for the Jag, but its just soo damned dificult, or at least it looks it anyway, lack of real practical information is a big problem too as far as I can see. P.S. Opening quote typed purely from memory

Ah cool, in that case whats the average price for them? would love to get one or two. Actually on the subject, what's the price of a falcon? I could never afford one when they were current, I doubt many other ppl could, I havnt even heard mention of them in years.

I thought the grey ones (with blue fire buttons and dark grey rubber buttons) were prototypes before they decided on the red and black colours?

quote: Originally posted by Pocket Universe:

Hehe, yeah, either as normal basic pads, or some will hopefully be converter to spinners or autofire pads, depending on how dificult the conversions are, and how much time I have.

quote: Originally posted by Atari-Jess: i so badly need controllers but so badly need money to pay for them.... lol, dont worry, I can virtually gaurentee I'll still have some by the time you've saved up a bit. I dont plan on even starting to sell them just yet.

Unfortunatly yes, all just basic controlers, however, I am in the process of constructing a prototype Tempest spinner (with the spinner where the d-pad is, looks quite neet but Im waiting for key components to be delivered before I can finish it). Depending on how easy it is to put together I'll probably make a few and put them on ebay to see how much response they get. If demand is high enough I will then make up as many spinners as I have time for. Should the spinners be too hard to make in bulk, I'll just sell the basic pads, or maybe make up some auto-fire ones for sale .

Remember a few months ago EB found a lost warehouse full of new and reconditioned Jag's and games? I think the Oxford St branch seemed to take most of the stock from there, and its all gone now, thanks to me cleaning them out today hehe. I managed to get 44 controlers! , 14 copies of fever pitch socker, 7 of troy akman's football, 5 doom's, one zoop, theme park and brutal sports... I wont tell you how much I paid for them all cause its just absolutely sick (and Im planing to resell most of it hehe), but suffice it to say, I was smiling and laughing to myself all the way home

Hmm... I think I'll wait till I have the real boxes in my house, after all the HD image is useless without the roms, which are useless without the hardware or emulator to play it on, and since even emulating a home Jag is nigh on impossible to emulate I think I'll give it a miss hehe. Hows the Jagulator progressing btw, anyone hear anything recently? I havnt been keeping an eye on the Atari scene lately.

Thanks, very informative, hadnt seen the fishing one before (and I thought Area51 Site 4 was on different hardware). Oh, and someone just posted images of the hard drives of Area51 and Vicious Circle on the alt.binaries.emulators.mame and alt.binaries.emulators.misc newsgroups. They're a bit of a flood, and utterly useless since there's no way anyone is going to make a working CoJag driver for a looong time, but interesting none the less, if your isp's server has the storage to keep them long enough to dl that is. [ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Tyrant ]

While browsing MAME sites, I came across mention of Vicious Circle (prototype only) being based on CoJag (Arcade Jaguar) hardware. I was just wondering if this is known by the Jag comunity or if it was an undescovered bit of news I've stumbled onto. Either way if it can be confirmed (the guy on the MAME site may be wrong) it should be added to the history page of the Jag section. Also does anyone know of any other CoJag games that arnt listed there?

quote: Originally posted by Atari-Jess: has anyone here played that Atari HQ levels for DooMII? they are simply the best!! No but I'd love to, where can one find them?

Basically the rotery control method is simply a ring with teath, with two sensors set half a cog space apart attached to it. Thus creating a pattern of signals in a 4 step sequence, first both off, then one on, then both on, then the other on, then both off again and so on. Thus its easy for a program to detect both the direction and speed of the wheel. The technology has been used in mice for a loong time, and modern mice use both optical sensors for the ball (two pairs of sensors for x and y motion respectivly) and also a mechanical sensor (copper contacts on a copper wheel) for the wheel between the buttons. The only difference is sensitivity, optical sensors are more sensitive. Since Tempest, and any other Jag games made to be compatible with Tempest spinners, use the left and right buttons connected to the two sensors, if you try to play any other game using such a controler, it will send it left and right signals in to it in the same sequance, and thus confuse the game by giving it the effect of you rapidly hitting left and right. As for making controlers, there are lots of sites out there made by people who made rotery controlers for use with their mame cabinits, but then again they often use pc mouse hardware which obviously has encoder chips and stuff onboard, and thus not really suitable for a Jag controler since it needs a different encoder chip.

quote: Originally posted by : I own 2 catboxes, 2 aircars, and 1 bsphere, Ok, now thats just plain depressing, Im jelous now.

quote: Originally posted by Gunstar: That you cna blame ScatoLogic for, with there unwillingness to compromise and actually by the chips they need at a higher price and sell the carts to the public at a higher price (which would DEFINATELY be less then what they are going for on E-bay now, a LOT LESS). That was what I was thinking exactly, how much would new carts cost? I know they said they cant use cheaper (smaller) eproms cause they'd need to redesign the board and thats a lot of hassle, but how much are the large chips? Im sure its not *that* much.

quote: Originally posted by Songbird: To my knowledge, all published Jaguar games have been coded in straight assembly, C, or some combination of the two. Really? I never knew there was a c compiler for the jag. Then again I havnt spent too much time looking into it, since I cant afford a dev kit anyway, but if there's a c compiler I'll definatly get one when I can.

I dont remember the address, but I know I've seen someone who has made a mouse for it, its very simple, it works the same way as a tempest spinner, but without the hard work of building the hardware, its just a small adapter cable. However it would obviously only work with programs built for analog input. Theoretically it would be possible to build an advanced joystick or mouse that can do analog on digital-only games, but its top speed would obviously be only the normal speed of a digital pad.

Is it just me imagining things or was there some form of penguin based strategy game on the st? Im sure I remember something weird, a platformer I think, anyone else remember it? or am I thinking of a this game? whats it like? I've never seen it but a review may have lodged in the back of my mind, mis-filed into an st hehe

I only got my scart lead ta few weeks ago from EB, before then I was on RF and it did suck lots. Its actually very lucky that I found the scart lead since I think the rf modulator on my jag's begining to die, has that happened to anyone else? it cut out a few times, and gave some strange interferance that wasnt environmental. Oh, and the stars in tempest look 10,000 times better with scart hehe [ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Tyrant ]