spacecadet

Well, this is the main reason why I don't like defining this sort of thing in terms of "generation" or age. It's one thing if you want a common delineator, like the crash of 1984, to separate everything. But to just say "it's gotta be two generations old" - I mean what is a generation, anyway? This is the most overused and meaningless word in the industry. Throughout the history of game consoles, there have always been launches a couple years apart. Were the Atari 2600 and Intellivision the same "generation"? (One launched in 1977, the other in 1979.) What about the Intellivision and Coleco Vision? (1979 and 1982.) How about the Genesis (1989) and the Super NES (1991)? Then you've got the Dreamcast (1999), PS2 (2000) and Xbox (2001). I think the reality is systems are being released pretty much all the time. There is only ever a two or at most three year hiatus in between major launches, but even during that time there are always other players releasing various game systems (the Neo Geo AES and the Jaguar, as two examples) that don't fit neatly into this whole "generation" thing either. Newer systems are usually more advanced than older systems, but not always. You can only define generations within a particular manufacturer's timeline, because obviously most manufacturers can only support one new system at a time. (There are exceptions to this.) But the idea of generations across the whole industry is a fallacy.

When I used to be on the rec.games.video.classic newsgroup, there were some people who were pretty militant about this. Some people had a mandatory 15 or 20 year wait. Some people said no game or system could ever be called classic if it was post-crash. There are a lot of people with arbitrary rules. (Of course, it also depends on your usage of the term; "classic" can be either a measure of quality or a measure of age... or both.) I think a console's a classic when the majority of people who care start calling it classic. For the remaining 49% who are going to be militant and say "no! you need to wait 5 months and 3 1/2 days more!", I mean, in this case I think the majority does rule and you just look like an idiot if you go against common vernacular. It's like trying to hold back the tide with your bare hands. You just can't do it. So, I think every individual has to make up his or her own mind about what they consider classic, and then when you put them together we'll see what the majority thinks in a few years. If you're using the term as a measure of age, I kinda am one of those people that thinks only pre-crash systems qualify. That's the "classic era". Anything newer is the "modern era" and/or the "3D era". If you're using it in terms of quality, I think it's too soon to judge the full libraries of the N64, PS1 or Dreamcast... though certainly individual games for each could already be called classics.

Just FYI, your screen has simply come unglued. There is a web site out there somewhere that will tell you how to fix this, and I've seen it once but have not been able to find it since. (I know, sounds like the Loch Ness Monster or something, but I know it's out there.) My screen is like this too; it's very common on those old GB's, but according to this site it's very easy to fix. (Literally just involves re-gluing your screen together.) Anyone else know the site I'm talking about?

BIN it at $200 - you'd be extremely lucky to get that but seems like that's basically the point of BIN pricing... Start bidding at $1 like all smart sellers do.

The DC is a pretty unreliable system. I don't think it's the discs that are the problem. The laser does go out of alignment; NCSX used to sell replacement units by themselves just for this reason. (They're pretty easy to replace.) My original DC died this way a while ago, but rather than replace the laser assembly I figured it was cheaper to just buy another DC at this point. My second one cost me ten bucks. It was pretty much bare (did come with a controller and power cord) but I didn't need anything else. It works fine. But if yours keeps telling you to "insert disc", it's time for replacement of either the laser or the entire unit. Actually I'm on my third one, I do have an import as well, that still works as far as I know.

That's a definition of the word "port" that's new to me... "Port" means the code is customized for the machine it's running on. Which by definition means it is a different game. It may or may not play and look the same, but usually a port - any port - is going to look and feel significantly different than the original. (Not always worse, but different.) It's both different hardware and different software. "Emulated" means it really is "identical to the arcade" (same code) but it's running through a layer of emulation that converts the various calls into a language that the machine it's running on understands. Again, not usually 100% perfect, but because it's the same as the original ROM, it's usually closer than a port. The only way to get truly 100% perfect, of course, is to have both the same software and the same hardware as the original. (The only home system this is possible on is the Neo Geo AES... although the Xbox, Dreamcast, PS2 and PS1 all had/have arcade hardware counterparts, but the differences in memory architecture are enough that the games still need to be ported.) I basically can't really answer your actual question, but you may be operating from the wrong set of assumptions about ports and emulation.

Well, sure. But the Xbox can't do 1080i, at least not well. It can do it with about three polygons on screen at once. Oh, you want textures? Make that two polygons. One and a half if you want a decent frame rate. I don't think you can be calling HDTV "elitist" anymore. My HDTV set cost $600. That's less than my 27" analog set cost a few years ago. And if you have HDTV, let me tell you, it is really, really hard to play a non-HD game anymore. (It's easier with the classic consoles because you don't expect as much. But it's tough when the latest systems can't even approach your TV's resolution, especially when you switch from an HD source to play a game and it just looks like ass in comparison.) In a few years everybody's gonna have an HDTV. It's already something like 23% of the market right now. And when you're talking eight times the resolution, you're gonna need about eight times the power just to keep things looking the same. (Albeit with the greater clarity of HD resolutions.) Now, that said, I do think the 360 is probably a little underpowered, especially after hearing stuff like PGR3 actually running at 1024x600 or something and being upscaled to 1280x720. That's pretty ridiculous. I'm sure the PS3 is going to be more powerful. But, I do think simply having a system capable of HD resolutions is something worth paying for. Maybe not $400, but something. I'm not in line for the 360 launch because I don't think there's enough beyond that to make it worth the price MS is asking, but after a price drop and some more games come out, I'll probably buy. I'm definitely buying a PS3 and probably a Revolution too (I do think it's a major mistake for Nintendo to be sticking to SD resolutions). The Xbox 360 is at the bottom of my priority list, but if not for the PS3, it'd probably be at the top.

Ok, let me preface this by saying it's TWO FREAKIN' DOLLARS. I'd buy practically all of these and not even think about it. That said, if you want some more objective analyses... JGR, Crazy Taxi, Virtua Tennis are all worth picking up and are all superior to their sequels (well, Virtua Tennis is debateable, but I thought it was tighter than Tennis 2K2). DOA2 is good but is just kind of pointless considering everything that's come after it (including the superior Japanese DOA2 on the Dreamcast itself). Same with THPS2, UT, and Quake 3. But I mean, seriously, the only one that I probably *wouldn't* buy is DOA2, because it's eight bucks and you can usually find it on Ebay for five, and because the sequels are all better.

NCSX has the TC3 for $29: http://www.ncsxshop.com/cgi-bin/shop/EMS-TC3.html A little expensive if you ask me, but I don't know where else to get these at this point (other than ebay). btw, if anyone's interested, someone is selling a copy of VO: Cyber Troopers, the Saturn Twin Sticks, and the TC3 adapter on Ebay right now for $10 with 5 days left. It'll obviously go higher, but I'm tempted to bid myself. Edit: yikes, no I'm not. Overseas shipping.

I can't believe not one person so far has mentioned Sin & Punishment yet. This is, IMO, hands down the best game on the system, and one of the best games on any system, ever. If you're a Treasure fan at all, you absolutely have to have an N64. This is the kind of game that really hardcore fans would pay any price for. The fact that you can get it for the price of an N64 (around $20), an import adapter ($10 or less) and the game (I'd guess around $30 at this point) makes it a no-brainer for even non-hardcore fans. I have other games for my N64, but S&P is the one I keep going back to even today and gameplay-wise, it's pretty ageless. The graphical style is also the kind of thing that doesn't rely on a lot of polygons for its look, so I'd think it'll remain playable pretty much forever.

I wouldn't call the Saturn twin sticks rare at all. You can still buy them in Japan for about twenty bucks, and you can find them in most used stores. As someone else mentioned, they do come up on Ebay here fairly often. When VOOT was out for the DC, people used to sell the Saturn sticks with an adapter in the US for like $50 because they were a lot easier to find than the DC stick. But even the DC stick is not really rare, just harder to find than the Saturn version. I think the Saturn one is about as rare as any Japan-only controller. I'd say fairly uncommon in the US, but nothing that easy to come by in its home country could ever be called rare. Sorry to disappoint... but no, you don't have a priceless piece of hardware there.

Full color Activision labels? Dunno if these specific games were made with both label styles or not (I'm not an Activision expert), and I dunno why someone would pay extra for color labels anyway, but I guess some people do, for certain games at least.

For me, it depends on what it is and what "limited edition" actually means. A lot of LE's aren't really limited at all (in some cases there are more LE's than there are regular versions) and especially in the US, there often isn't really anything special about them beyond a "tin" case or something. (Why "tin" is so desirable is something I've never understood - this is the stuff they make cans of tomato sauce out of!) I don't have a huge amount of video game LE stuff, but overall I've got a lot of LE's of various kinds, including import and domestic video games, laserdiscs, DVDs, game consoles, etc. I'd say it's about half and half whether I actually use them or not. It just depends on how special I think the LE really is, given what's different about it than the regular edition (like rarity and included extras). Couple examples - if I bought the Halo 2 LE, yes I'd use it and I wouldn't even think about it. My Derby Stallion Saturn, though, I almost never even take out of the box. I don't think I've ever even actually hooked it up, I've just looked at it longingly. I think that really it depends on how "manufactured" of an LE it is. You know, "limited editions" started out as premium packages for those who wanted extras, wanted exclusivity and would pay more for it. Nowadays, though, and especially in the United States, half the time manufacturers will just stick the "limited edition" label on some common, crappy package in a tin case so they can charge ten bucks more for it. Most of my LE stuff that I really prize is from Japan.

... my @$$! Where I come from, "mint" means unused, and perfect. No, that would be "new" condition. "Mint" means it's been used but is otherwise perfect. I'm sure this originated as a way to describe coin condition, although it's not an actual recognized grade for coins in the US. (It may be an official grade in other countries.) It sounds like it describes condition as if it just came from the coin mint, but it wouldn't mean "new" because even colloquially you wouldn't say something was "mint" if it was new and/or uncirculated. Still, though, if something is scratched or gouged it is most definitely not "mint". My only point is something could be used and still be mint, though. I've got all sorts of stuff in mint condition; systems I bought, took out of the box 2 or 3 times to test and/or play, then put back in the box.

I admit I haven't played Burnout Revenge, but this is the main reason why. I've seen footage of this in action and I just cannot imagine that it would do anything but absolutely ruin this game. What's the point of a street racing game if you can just plow through the traffic? Every good street racing game I've ever played (including Burnout 3) has used avoiding traffic as a major gameplay element. Burnout 3 did it probably better than any other because your opponents had to worry about it too, meaning forcing your opponents into the traffic was a viable tactic. I'm not a guy that thinks an arcade racing game like Burnout needs to be utterly realistic, but I also agree that this is a little too far over the top. Even arcade racing games have to be somewhat grounded in reality. You can have exaggerated speed and handling, and fantastical courses, but you cannot alter the basic laws of driving and still make a fun game. Avoiding obstacles is one of the biggest elements that creates the excitement and danger in any racing game. (The crash mode is obviously a different story, but you've only gotta crash once in that mode and then it's over. You're not running an actual race.)

It's no better unmodified. I have the unedited DVD (which I got while still working at Rockstar), and I also saw the movie when it was first released in theaters. It was bad when it was released and it's still bad now. Let's not forget that this film, along with Xanadu, basically killed Michael Beck's career. He was supposed to be the next Harrison Ford at that time. It's kind of fun in a campy way, but it's not overtly hilarious enough to be a true cult classic. It's just sort of interesting as a mediocre chronicle of NYC in the 1970's. If you want real campy fun, though, just watch Saturday Night Fever instead Most of what's fun about watching the movie would only be interesting to New Yorkers. It's kind of interesting seeing how various real neighborhoods and subway stations were portrayed at the time (it's a mixture of reality and fantasy; the route they take is basically correct, but not totally, and some of the neighborhoods don't look anything like they did even back then). To an outsider, obviously that wouldn't mean anything. I haven't played the game but most people when I worked at the company thought making it was a pretty stupid idea. The game itself could be good, though; it would probably actually be better if it wasn't totally faithful to the movie. But the movie itself is not really a "cult classic" whatever Rockstar would have you believe. It wasn't good in the 1970's and it's not good now, even as a B-movie. It's just not that much fun to watch unless you live here and remember that time.

You won't cover the cost of even the 360 by itself with that package (not even the cheap version). I'd keep your Xbox and wait until there's actually something on the 360 worth playing. And the price comes down a little bit. I'm in no hurry to get an Xbox 360; it's the least interesting of all the upcoming consoles IMO. I don't really know what it is people are running out to buy on day one. Is there a game you just absolutely have to have that's launching along with the 360? Something better than the 9 games you already have for your original Xbox?

I think that's about right, although you never know if you post them on Ebay. But even the stupidest/richest bidder I don't think would go higher than $10. $5 is probably closer, though. "new, shrinkwrapped" just generally doesn't mean much anymore because there's no way to prove it's true. The only way it means anything is if it's coming from a really reputable seller or it has, to use the parlance of antique dealers, "provenance". If you can trace the history of the game for the seller and sort of prove where it came from, then you can more easily convince people that something is really new. But even if these are new, they're pretty much all the most common games for the system. I don't think these would be too tough to find new even today if you just waited around a while. I'm sure I've seen these same games listed as new/shrinkwrapped on ebay at one time or another, and you see them boxed and in mint condition dozens of times a day.

I have a pair that came with my Sears heavy sixer, although no hex discs. Both work perfectly, although I don't use them as I'm afraid of breaking them. I have a bunch of the later 2600 joysticks that I normally use.

I think you're reading that part of what the guy wrote wrong... this is what he actually said: "Just when you thought the console market had reached the pinnacle of baseball games, along comes World Series Major League Baseball. I recall seeing the Plimpton ad touting this game - I was stunned! ... I want to play this game more than I have so far. It took me 18 years to finally get it!" His review is just of the regular World Series Major League Baseball, and it sounds to me like he's saying he just didn't bother picking it up until 18 years after its release. The game he's reviewing is actually uncommon but not extremely rare, so he may just not have bothered buying it until now, and he's lamenting that fact. But, obviously if you have what it sounds like you have, that is pretty rare. I doubt it would take 18 years to get one if you were looking for it, but it still seems like a pretty nice find. One thing, though - his description for Super Series Big League Baseball says "Extremely hard-to-find remake of World Series Major League Baseball; ECS required, IntelliVoice optional;" Seems like if you can play it on your Intelly II without an ECS, then it's not the game he's talking about being extremely rare. He's not the be-all-end-all authority on Intellivision stuff - he even says to email him if you find label variations he doesn't know about - so you may have just gotten a variant that he doesn't list. A regular version of World Series Baseball but with a new box. (Or maybe your box just got mixed up with the wrong game by the original owner.) *If* you do have a real Super Series Big League Baseball (i.e. you cannot play it on your stock Intelly 2), then some sites I've seen say it's gone for over $100 on Ebay.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Genesis prices hit the low end of the range maybe 2-3 years ago and have been steadily going *up* ever since. You used to be able to buy one in a box even on Ebay for about $10-$15. Nowadays it's more like $25 if you're lucky, and some packages even go for more - you're starting to see people pay attention to which version of the system they're getting and which pack-ins (some are rarer than others). $25 is still not much in the grand scheme of things but that's still around a 100% increase in the past couple years. Not $50, though, that's too much. It's going to be a while before that level's hit. This is still one of the more common systems out there. The only difference is it was being seriously undervalued a few years ago, but now it's reached that point where "retro" combines with a renewed appreciation for both its popular and undiscovered games and the price has gone back up a bit. (This happens to all good consoles over time.) It's fine if you want to brag about your lucky snag but don't expect everybody to be able to pick up a boxed system for $10 anymore. It's just not very likely at this point.

What about Sears? I don't think either of the lists posted so far (the one at the top of the thread, and the one below your post) show any serial with a letter below "S". (And conversely, I haven't seen an Atari serial # above "N"). That would sort of make sense, maybe they started with "S" for "Sears" and then went up from there? I've been thinking I have a really low serial number all this time, would be a disappointment to me if I didn't. (Though I'll live...)

People who get lucky always say stuff like this. You got lucky, that's all. If you walk around looking for a boxed 7800 for $7, you're probably gonna be hunting for the rest of your life. I may as well say I'm not gonna buy a house on Long Island for more than $100,000. I mean a seller would have to be an idiot to sell for that price. And true, some sellers are idiots, but not that many, and if they are idiots, it's almost always going in the other direction - asking too much, not too little. And there aren't many people selling 7800's in the first place anymore anyway. Every year I see fewer 7800's out there. You're probably never gonna be able to get one cheaper than you can now. If you can find one boxed for $25, that's a great deal. But I wouldn't worry about paying a few bucks more than that if that's all that you can get. It's just really not worth aggravating yourself over a few dollars. This isn't a contest to see who can pay the lowest price for a game console. This is about the enjoyment you're going to have once you own that console. Whatever that's worth to you is the price ceiling you should set.

I would seriously doubt it, although I don't know where Buyatari gets his NOS computer modules from... But the history of the company is such that you'd think they most likely physically cleared everything out decades ago. That division of Mattel completely shut down and its assets were sold to INTV corp, who continued selling old Mattel stock until it ran out. Then whatever was left was purchased by Intellivision Inc., which now owns all the IP (these guys are mostly old Mattel programmers, so it's pretty cool that they now own it). So I kinda doubt there's much still floating around anywhere, and I think Mattel itself would probably be the *last* place you'd find anything. And just to throw out my contribution to answering the original question you asked, I paid I think about $35 for my boxed Intellivision with only LVP&B (the pack-in). That's probably about the going rate. Common boxed games would probably add around $3-4 each. So $100 for the package listed in your original post is probably about right. Obviously you can still find deals if you get lucky at Goodwill or something, but that's not the question that was asked... the question was what *could* you sell this for. I don't think it'd be a problem getting $100 for it. (btw, Intellivoice modules rarely go for more than $10, even boxed... sorry to burst your bubble!) Sort of OT now but one sort of odd thing about the Intellivision is that *everybody* has pretty much the same games. The rare games are *really* rare for that reason. Unlike the Atari 2600 and most other systems where you have almost sort of equal numbers of common games, uncommon games, rare games and then a few extremely rare games, with the Intellivision it's more like 80% of the games are commons, 15% are rare and 5% are extremely rare. I know the various guides may make it seem a little different but that's been my experience. (I'm not talking about label variations or whether an INTV release of a game is "rare" vs. the same Mattel release or whatever.) You see almost the exact same collection of games come up in every Intellivision auction and with every package you find in the wild.

Mine: