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Starglider01

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Posts posted by Starglider01

  4. Posted

    Fire up 2600 Moon Patrol if you have it. The Title screen on that game has issues with modern displays so I would be curious if it looks okay on your restored H6. But yeah very odd to see that extreme video drop out just from firing your shots. More interesting is that it didn't seem to do it as much at the end of the vid when you and Ladyfractic are both playing.

     

    I don't think I have that one.

     

    towards the end of the video I realized we could hold down fire. it is the very act of the fire button joystick signal traveling to the computer (or from it if it's bringing it to ground) that causes it. Holding down fire stops it. Perhaps a momentary voltage dropout or increase. But I have a new voltage regulator on there.

     

    for some reason it doesn't bother me so much. at first I thought it was a clever effect by the game to add more drama! At the very worst it is charming to me, keeping in mind that this is nearly five decades old... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

     

     

     

  6. Posted

    16 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

    Okay, while I know that the game ESB has some issues with not following proper scan line counts, it should NOT be flickering like it is with each shot in your video on a CRT like that. So something else still seems a bit amiss in that video signal causing some sort of drop out is my guess?

     

    Well, I've seen other reports of that exact thing online and they suggest the 4050 chip or the caps by the joystick port. I replaced one cap on each side with the static mod as you saw. Not sure I'm up for replacing all the other ceramic caps just yet lol...

  8. Posted

    I just had a breakthrough! 
     
    I had tried 5 outlets in different rooms and opposite ends of the house. I tried a 6th outlet, with an extension cable, and suddenly the ripple is gone!! The picture is as close to perfect as I could've hoped! So there was something in the electrical circuits bothering the old hardware of the VCS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
    This is as close to a solution as I could hope so I'm happy to say... drum roll please... problem solved!
     
    Thank you all so much for your help.
    • Like 3

  9. Posted

    Hi guys, aside from the 60 Hz interference I've been seeing, I've noticed the whole screen "flashes" or flickers (like a half-second loss of vertical hold) briefly when pressing fire on either joystick.

     

    I've tried swapping out the 4050 chip in this heavy sixer, and have also done the field service manual static fix on the joystick port caps, adding a diode across a new cap. No change.

     

    Any ideas? Thanks!

  11. Posted

    Well I've put everything back together and this is the best I can get it. unfortunately the interference looks worse on a better TV. Video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2J1gqPZgBreE59JG6

    But this gives you a very good look at the interference pattern in case that helps some more. Interestingly if I only plugged the left audio in the interference was 10 times worse. Plugging both audio jacks in made things much better, which is what you see. I'm willing to forgive this as it is nearly half a century old, but if you have any other ideas to let me know. Thank you all for your help.

  12. Posted

    Hmm.  Maybe you should go ahead and remove L201 then.  The instructions for 6 switch PAL say to remove R209, L201, Q202, and R216.  Yeah, yours is NTSC, but all of these components are in the audio modulator circuit, which is identical except for a couple of component values on both systems.  L201 is the only one you haven't removed yet, at least from your previously posted photos of the PCB  Perhaps it induces some sort of ringing in the video output circuit, even though most of the circuit it's in was castrated.  Incidentally, they do not say to remove R210, but it shouldn't hurt.
    L201 was out a while ago, then back in, and is now back out... No change.

    I don't know that I still have R210 to reinstall. Do we think that will stop the ripple or not likely?

    Thanks guys.

  17. Posted

    On 10/7/2020 at 4:48 PM, ChildOfCv said:

    Come to think of it, I wonder what quality the solder joints on the mod PCB are?  Was it done by an assembly machine, or by hand?  From my own experience, it's easy to get a component that LOOKS like it is in place, but is actually hovering 0.001" above the pad.  Try systematically testing each solder joint on the mod PCB too, by attempting to complete the circuit through your meter probe.

    Tried but no improvements noted. Thanks anyway.

  18. Posted · Edited by Starglider01

    On 10/7/2020 at 2:37 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

    Well, the fact that you can make the picture change by moving the composite mod wiring indicates some signal loss is happening within that wiring. Is it possible you have a break within one or more of the wires themselves? The issue actually appears like the ground isn't making a good connection somewhere within the mix of things.

     

    The good news is that what you are getting at least tells us that the system is at least 'mostly' working. Kinda like how it might have only been 'mostly' dead when you originally received it.

     

     

    I have now replaced those wires completely and soldered new ones to the SMD board directly. Moving the wires no longer affects the image quality. So I'm going to say there was an issue in the wires.

     

    1254977582_ScreenShot2020-10-10at16_02_45.thumb.png.d3d3d05e1b7fa76b2da087a34404f016.png

     

    However, I still get the interference on the picture. I just can't change it now. Overall I'd say it's better though! Here's the latest example: https://photos.app.goo.gl/RJGysPAREtMJ2Lsz8

     

    To me, at the end when I reset the VCS so the coloured background stops changing, it isn't terrible for a 44 year old machine. Should I really be striving for greater heights?

    If so, what's next? All I can think of is resocketing the TIA etc. Worth the risk?

  19. Posted · Edited by Starglider01

    On 10/6/2020 at 6:29 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

    I meant to ask you as I see you own an FR-301 (I own the slightly oler FR-300), what temp setting are you using? I tend to do nearly all of my de-soldering work with the 300 set between 1 and 2 on the wheel. I occasionally might have to turn it to 2 - 3 if I want to remove a large amount of solder from a large ground plane, say an RF modulator for instance but 90% of the time I can do what is needed with it set to much lower settings and that will ensure no damage to the pads in most cases. Also, hard to tell in your video, but you need to make sure that the tip of the de-soldering iron touches the pads as little as possible. This is especially true when you do the circular wiggle while activating the pump. 

    I generally have it on 2-3, higher for the big switch pads. I will turn it down a little on your recommendation for these older pads.

     

    My wiggling is 0.5mm off the board - its just general good practice as you say :-) The regulator pads were lost due to the heat sink not being soldered to the ground plane from the factory, so unfortunately when I put it down and some weight was exerted on it, it pushed the VR pins through and lifted the traces. That repair seems solid now though FWIW and touching it makes no difference to the picture.

     

    The only things I haven't tried that I can think of are:

     

    1. Replacing the mod's wires completely (complex/risky due to tiny SMD PCB)

    2. Installing new sockets for the 3 chips

  20. Posted · Edited by Starglider01

    On 10/6/2020 at 12:48 AM, ChildOfCv said:

    Another curious question:  Before color was restored, did the B/W screen have the same fussiness?

     

    Also, after solving the black screen issue, have you tried other games again?

     

    Also also, with the apparent fragility of the PCB, I wonder if there are some cracked solder joints or partially separated pads elsewhere on the PCB?  I wonder if systematically pressing on each PCB component might find one in particular that affects the picture quality more dramatically?  You could also use a loupe lens to look closely at each solder joint to see if any breaks, cracks, or cold joints exist.

    Yes, B&W had the same interference according to my footage.

     

    Other games are the same... Defender... Asteroids...

     

    Solder issues are possible. I've reflowed the 3 chips though I didn't install new sockets (they looked good). I've pushed and poked and prodded everything over the past weeks! The only changes to the picture are when lifting the entire board or playing with the composite mod wires.

     

    Reassembling the VCS into the RF shield doesn't help.

     

    I have tried 2 RIOTs, CPUs, and TIAs.

  22. Posted

    1. All recent tests have been without a controller. With that DK test, moving anything would cause changes. That has stabilized a bit since I've been troubleshooting. But even now, just moving the mod's wires, or the VCS itself, causes the interference pattern to change/improve/worsen.

     

    2. As above.

     

    Thanks.

  23. Posted

    33 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

    Okay... so at this point I'd have to lean on the TIA being the issue unless that was tried already and I missed that further up?

     

    Yup TIA was swapped... I've actually tried 2 TIAs.

     

    On some level I'm prepared to say this is 44 years old and entitled not to be perfect... But if you have any other ideas, I may never give up. Feel free!

  24. Posted · Edited by Starglider01

    On 10/1/2020 at 10:41 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

    Another suggestion I was going to toss out was to wire in an actual RCA jack temporarily off the composite output and tie it to ground along the mainboad somewhere to see if that would rule out the AV jack currently being used.

    Okay I have tried this. Short story: Same result.

     

    I went one step further and bypassed the composite mod completely, touching my makeshift cable composite directly to R216, and GND to R237 or the TIA GND. Although the colours were weird, I got a picture, but the same artifacts/interference. So I think we can safely say it's not the mod and is something with the VCS... (although I didn't desolder the cables going to the mod as the VCS pads are getting fragile, so it was technically still connected to the VCS albeit not to the TV.)
     
    I've now also tried 3 PSUs, but no improvement.
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