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VinsCool

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Posts posted by VinsCool

  2. Posted · Edited by VinsCool

    I did some experimental sounds tonight, turned out pretty nice I think.

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    This one was pretty jittery when played as an exported .xex from RMT, I noticed most things using 15khz mode especially seem to behave as such.

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    Loaded into RMT2LZSS using the LZSS16 and RMT 1.28 (unpatched), runs at 50hz.

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    Just another song I might never fully finish because composing is hard :D

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    Sketch_40_V10.obx

    • Like 1

  3. Posted

    4 hours ago, emkay said:

    Another 15kHz tune.聽

    Known "cancelling" problems , but they are stable ;)

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    BattleSquadron15.xex 12.14 kB 路 5 downloads

    I've never heard anything from you sounding so stable until now!
    Clearly the LZSS stuff has done magic to make things a lot smoother.
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    3 hours ago, ivop said:

    Thanks!

    I used this tune mostly to test out different instruments and see how it turned out. I'm not really a fan of that PWM sound, especially when modulated to much, but I might dig into it for a new song.

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    BTW XLent's transcription is on the atarionline.pl forum, free to download, if you want to have a try at it yourself.

    That's fair! I just said that because I know it can be done if someone wanted to have it.
    At the end, it's a matter of personal taste :P聽
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    2 hours ago, emkay said:

    A third one.聽 After listening to the original ACTRaiser today ;)

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    ActRaiser.xex 6.66 kB 路 4 downloads

    I like how we pretty much took the same approach to the modulation :D聽
    I kinda miss the additional harmony however, that took me a bit of work in my version. everything can be done with clever instrumentation and timing at least :P聽

  4. Posted

    1 hour ago, ivop said:

    I noticed that, too. Not at first, but after I uploaded the RMT/Altirra rendition to YouTube. I thought it was a side effect of what I was doing, and didn't find it annoying :) Noticed it again today after the conversion. And now you mention it. That's great! Because, I went back to the rmt file, and indeed I made an instrument mistake. Instead of setting the volume to 0, it sets the distorion to 0. Hence the "rumble" at a volume of 1. Here's a fixed version. I'll update the YT video later.

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    noisy-pillars-t1-ivo-edit-fourth-channel-v2.obx 10.01 kB 路 2 downloads

    Very nice! Thanks for coming back to it :)
    I suspected it was exacly that, ahah, I make these mistakes all the time too.
    聽

    56 minutes ago, rensoup said:

    Great conversion, I just wished you'd use some PWM magic for that modern retro feel聽馃檪

    There is definitely a lot of room for that, I can almost taste it :D聽

    • Haha 1

  5. Posted · Edited by VinsCool

    1 hour ago, ivop said:

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    Here's my fourth version of Noisy Pillars, with a fourth channel, and a "resulting sound" ;)

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    Similar to @VinsCool's findings, it seems to sounds more smooth than the RMT player!

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    And, I like the visuals @rensoup added :)

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    noisy-pillars-t1-ivo-edit-fourth-channel.obx 10.04 kB 路 1 download

    Sounds great! That could be pushed even further if you fill some empty spaces between drums and bassline, to add even richer harmony, and even use filter to manipulate the timbre nicely, I think :P聽
    Sounds very smooth indeed!

    EDIT: just noticed some parts seemed to alternate between noise and tone, at the same frequency. Was that intentional or just an instrument mistake?

  6. Posted

    So as promised here's the conversions I did so far.

    Most of theses are my own tunes, as well as my friend's, where I also edited or helped working on.
    Included a lot of my unfinished and unreleased projects for testing purposes too, so if a song feels incomplete it most likely is :D聽

    Everything was converted with the LZSS16 and RMT 1.28 (Unpatched) settings.
    So far I have to say, this is a really robust program and converter. Not once something failed, or broke, or just was wrong after the process.

    The only thing as I said earlier is regarding the loop *if* there is something being expected to continue during the loop, it will be abruptly interrupted, but that can be fixed easily in RMT, so that is really not a problem since everything else had at least something to interrupt in the first place.
    I also noticed some visual glitches in a few聽of the .obx conversions, but it only happens for a split second each time so it's not a big deal.

    Playback in both 50hz and 60hz is working perfectly, just make sure to pick the right one when specified in the archive, otherwise it's 60hz by default. :P聽

    Conversions by Vin.zip

    • Like 3

  10. Posted

    9 minutes ago, rensoup said:

    well yeah its just a recording of the pokey stream so when it loops it goes back to the state it was in at that point... why would want to play a sound then loop on an empty pattern unless you were trying to break it聽馃槂聽?

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    Now why the LZSS version fails to loop properly from time to time is perhaps because of what Emkay explained ?

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    or did I understand your question wrong ?

    Yeah that was pretty much what I thought as well.

    It's really not a big issue, it can be worked around very easily.

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    Like you said, in my case I pretty much tried to break it on purpose. Leaving the same empty pattern but reusing it many times to artificially make a very long "song" will work for that experiment I posted.

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    However for songs making use of this same effect, it might cause some loop issues, since a song may be expected to have something happening, sustaining or fading out in an "empty" channel, so looping back to that same part will be an abrupt cut.

    That is however not a big problem, like I said, it simply requires the .rmt to be adjusted accordingly to avoid it :D

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    That's my observations about it so far.

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    I should post the conversions I did before I went to sleep, pretty much everything I threw at the program was flawless, 50hz and 60hz, either worked perfectly.

    There were some really tiny differences too, but I noticed the LZSS conversion sort of... Runs smoother than a .xex from RMT?

    Not exactly sure about how I could describe it. It's like any jittery playback I could have caused with all sort of fuckery magically disappeared :P

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    That for sure was really awesome, other than a very tiny looping limitation that can be avoided easily, there was nothing that did not work as expected, and that certainly makes me happy considering a lot of the things I tested were made with stock RMT 1.28 format (1.30), and a lot of fuckery was done in the modules themselves :D

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    Anyway I'll make sure to post the conversions I did once I can use my PC, I had fun revisiting really old projects of mine that were left unfinished.

    聽

  11. Posted · Edited by VinsCool

    Oh dear, I don't know if this is intentional feature, or if I broke the program, but I attempted to convert one of my experiments and that did not go exactly as planned
    Looks like when the song "loops", it literally loops the state the chip was as well? I expected it to loop聽but continue to "sustain" something that was happening. That probably explains some looping issues I noticed when I listened to your tests before :P聽

    In short I was just letting the sound go until it rolled back. That is definitely not a conversion bug, rather it simply will literally loop regardless a note was sustained or not, so if an instrument was going to, say, increase the frequency very slowly, looping an empty pattern will pretty much just loop whatever state the pattern started as? I don't know if I make any sense, I did not really expect this to work but I imagine this can be interesting.

    .obx is the conversion, .xex is how it it is intended to sound like (running in PAL or NTSC won't make any difference, but it was targeting NTSC

    In the meantime I'll convert some tunes :D聽

    16 bit distortion A tests 5.obx 16 bit distortion A tests 5.xex

  13. Posted

    5 hours ago, rensoup said:

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    And here's another tune converted with RMT2LZSS: electric city by Vinscool

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    This new version solves the last issue聽I had with LZSS: tunes which don't loop back to the starting point: The聽intro plays, then the聽main part and then the tune loops to the beginning of the main part.

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    Because LZSS always has to decompress from the start of the file, you can't jump back to any arbitrary position. The solution was to automatically split the tune in 2 lzss files聽(by checking the jump command in the RMT song lines) and play them back to back then jump back to the 2nd tune.

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    Vinscool's tune has a super long intro and a very short main tune... a little unusual but it shows a small issue: every time the tunes loops, the initialization code has to run again and because it's very slow, it doubles the frame time!

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    Should be easy to solve though.

    lzss_electric.obx 2.89 kB 路 4 downloads

    Oh nooooooo!
    Nice work, however I hope you did not spend too much time with the conversion 馃槵
    that was a very incomplete cover, so obviously a large chunk of the song is missing, and the "long intro" in question was me testing out different pulse widths by absolute manipulation using the channel 3 (and 4, for the same purpose)聽frequency.
    If this was based on a more recent version, it was also just as unfinished, unfortunately.
    聽

    5 hours ago, Synthpopalooza said:

    I've played with it and got a note table.

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    The key is, prime number intervals of 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7.聽 If you use the higher intervals for the higher notes, you get 9 octaves.聽 But notes below D2 start having that sound artifact.

    Very cool! Had been trying to get my own notes, by ear, and that was not terribly successful, but not unusable either.
    There's a lot of combinations I would love to test more sometime.

  14. Posted

    Hey guys I have some good news!

    I got a real Atari 800xl, finally!

    I am not yet uploading more music, but I still have been experimenting with sounds, with more modes and combinations, so something will be done eventually, and also ran off hardware to make sure it's all working.

    I have been able to produce sawtooth bass, so far, with spotty tuning but can sort of be manipulated, generate pretty cool timbres with other distortions and modes, and also do 16 bit mode with anything, sort of, by manually entering notes as "frequency" values, not terribly efficient workflow in RMT, but that proves that sort of stuff is indeed possible, it just takes really laborious work to get done, hahaha.

    I will hopefully come back with more experimental sounds soon, and hopefully be able to make use of that in a pleasant way.

    Here I did a very quick and dirty demo for the sawtooth bass I was able to get mostly "in-tune" manually, not great but can be improved, and proves it can be done with some workaround in RMT :D
    Sorry for the Twitter link, that was where I originally posted the demo last night, haha XD
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    IMG_20201215_160057.jpg

    • Like 5

  15. Posted

    2 hours ago, ivop said:

    Here's somthing else. An example of how the "resulting sound" that emkay always talks about can be influenced. This rmt file has four channels playing do-re-mi, each an octave higher and half the volume. They are sort of synced (as far as RMT allows it) by playing div0 as the first frame.

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    Now you can experiment by muting certain channels. Nearby pairs sound good, but skip one in between is also a nice sound. Especially 2+4.

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    In RMT you can (un)mute channels by clicking the column header. In Altirra you can (un)mute channels by pressing CTRL-ALT-1 2 3 or 4.

    聽 

    This is what each channel plays, sort of, if it were properly synchronized ;)
Note that this has no relation to the framerate. This happens much faster.

Ch.1: 8888888800000000
Ch.2: 4444000044440000
Ch.3: 2200220022002200
Ch.4: 1010101010101010

Res.: FEDBCA9876543210  A Sawtooth :)

    聽

    Enable the audio monitor and the oscilloscope in Altirra and press F9 to pause and see how the wave resembles a sawtooth, somewhat ;)

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    resulting sound.rmt 382 B 路 1 download resulting sound.xex 2.66 kB 路 4 downloads

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    Edit: and don't forget to listen to a single channel with the rest muted once in a while, to hear the basic tones.

    It's also possible to create a sawtooth in RMT by combining channels 1 and 3 and enabling 1.79mhz in channel 1 and 3, and then output distortion A in channel 1, with the channel 2 having very slight detune, varying levels can create varying tuning disparity, so it could be somewhat usable with some further tests with it.

    It also works with channel 2+4.

    聽

    They don't sound too good, especially with the high pitched fuzz (the waveforms legit lool like croissants, more than saw teeth), but it does work.

  17. Posted

    1 hour ago, rensoup said:

    Anyway since we're in full hijack mode, I was wondering what versions of RMT are most used ? RMT 1.28 unpatched and 1.28 patch8 ?

    Personally I always use RMT 1.30, which to my understanding is mostly just 1.28 with window resize being possible.

    • Thanks 1

  19. Posted

    Just now, ivop said:

    LOL me (n)either.

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    So, is this the first Atari Pokey song that has parts in 13/16 time signature :)

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    Your composition skills have tremendously improved! I have listend to it twice now, and there are some very nice parts, both rhythmically and melodically. Going to listen a third time now 馃幎

    Thank you very much!

    Yeah the time signature, everything in this song, is all over the place, and that's exactly the intention!
    Let's not forget Spring added many ideas in this one as well, so thanks again, Spring!

    Glad to see you enjoyed it! I had a lot of fun working on it for the last few days (sporadically, since I was doing other stuff as well, like cleaning Commodore 64s, and waiting for an Atari 800xl that should come in the mail eventually :D聽)

    • Like 2

  20. Posted · Edited by VinsCool
    I can't English

    Alright, another original song made in RMT finished!
    As always, .rmt and .xex attached to the post. Don't forget to run them in NTSC!

    [Original, Collab w/Spring] Table Manuscrite (Atari PoKEY)

    聽
    A lot of work went into this one, even it may not look like it.
    I think pretty much everything works, tuning is mostly good (to the limits of 8 bit, that is), and there are some sounds that are usually not associated to this chip!
    And I know聽there is a lot more I need to figure out too, but this is coming together as I experiment with sounds.

    Special thanks to @Spring聽for helping me with composition ideas in this one :D聽

    Table Manuscrite Final.rmt Table Manuscrite Final.xex

    • Like 7

  21. Posted

    1 hour ago, emkay said:

    Rework of an older tune. ...

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    Some different waves in the lead...

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    The notes being different in some parts like the bassline works well I think.
    A sweet rearrangement (accidental or on purpose) of a classic tune.

  22. Posted

    34 minutes ago, emkay said:

    I guess such results come from the "preset" of POKEY Trackers. Particular RMT.

    Raster did explain the circumstances , but people don't read them.

    It's not a good choice to create "new tunes for Atari/Pokey"聽 in such a tracker. The "Preset" is not done to suit musicians well.

    In EVERY PoKey Tracker musicians should find a preset of instruments that really work for real music. If that is done, a musician might create non "Rollercoaster" music on PoKey 聽by default ;)

    Oh yeah, everything carefully crafted pays off, otherwise it's hard to get good results.
    I think preset vibrato is the worst offender of the bunch, good thing frequency tables work great for that purpose as well.

    I noticed that you really have to think outside of the box to get good sounds out of RMT, and it feels great when it works :D聽

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1
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