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You're heading down a rabbit hole. I don't know about 7800, but NES for example does not have a "correct" palette due to how its internals work: it'd be slightly different on every unit, and then TV, which is why modern emus & FPGAs have multiple palettes to choose from. If you have an original 7800 and an original 91' CRT then I'd simply assume that the correct colour is the one displayed. That's of course unless the TV is busted, or its OSD settings are in some extreme positions, but you can verify it by checking vs some more modern machine like SNES.

Changing a value in an .ini file (or searching the net for "MAME frontend") is "like pulling teeth"? Oh boy. But guess what, MAME is open source, so when you have a minute you can always rustle up your own snazzy & super user-friendly version

Most likely it depends on a person, but I suppose the colour thing would be the hardest to spot. That's at least what I struggle with. Dynamic resolutions probably would bother me, though that also depends on how far from the TV one is sitting. I can defintelty tell - and feel - the difference between 60/120 fps. That's on a PC though, perhaps on a console/TV it'd be a bit different. Consoles have always used lots of tricks to make inferior framerates bearable. I do my AAA gaming on a PC atm, but wouldn't mind trying a modern console setup, even if only out of technical curiosity. But prices are too crazy now, and there aren't enough exclusives yet to justify a purchase.

@DJ ClaeFair enough. I can concede this point, I guess the topic of the myth of a real [email protected] can be left for some other occasion. That raises another one though: if the stuff is upscaled, which means loss of quality already, is this 10-12 bit difference actually relevant (as in visible?) Would it be relevant even if we apply it to these few games actually able to output real [email protected]?

So, as I was saying...

I can't speak for "other posters". You're going all meta here when my post was in response to some very specific (and fairly emotional and unreasonable, btw) claims about PC building. VCS does not exist in a vaccuum, it's a part of hardware and gaming landscape, so some people interested in technology want to talk about it. Since we are past the release date I'm not interested in Atari SA shenanigans anymore (haven't been for quite a long time anyway), just strictly in the hardware aspect. In fact, these days I'm much more positive about it than back in the day, although that does not mean "non-critical". And I have explained my stance on this multiple times before, last time as far as yesterday.

I don't see anybody stating that VCS is an existential threat. What I do see is a tech-based discussion, with some people making claims and others responding to them.

I was responding directly to a "build me an equivalent of a VCS" challenge. We can of course start moving some goalposts and start quantifying what an "equivalent" is, so it will stop making sense, but I don't think it's the point. Also, if you don't like a tower, stick this thing into a mini itx case, it'll be even cheaper. @Sauron: ditto. Please read Mockduck's claim first and try to understand the context. As for the rest of your vent, do read the other recent VCS thread where this was explained in full.

Here's a ~300USD PC build which easily outperforms VCS: https://techguided.com/best-gaming-pc-under-300-dollars/ Thsi is just first link I grabbed from the top. If I had some time and was putting it together myself I'm pretty sure I could do better, for example not sure what did they put 650W PSU in there for.

I think you should re-read the OP mate I'm really not looking for an emulator list, and saying they are "fantastic" is not much of an advice.

I knew it'll be a ROTFL material as soon as I saw the word "grading".

Vaguely enthusiastic statements like this one are the reason why I made this thread in the first place ...while concrete info like this is much more what I'm after. Even though this emulator seems rather...esoteric (it's an OS?) and things like that could be worth discussing. Same as the 100% compatibility claim: is it the same as 100% accuracy?

PSP's controls have never bothered me, and I much prefer its amazing display. It also serves perfect PSX emulation, which is quite a feat on such a low-spec (nowadays) handheld. It's a bit weird that when everything is considered it, and NDS, are still best emulation handhelds. For me ergonomics are a big issue, I'm pretty sure larger machines (Vita or GDP) would tire my hands quickly if held in unusual (non-sitting) positions. Also odd that 3Ds should be so unloved, it's got such a huge install base after all.

I've recently put together a PC with crtemudriver installed, which alongside a little converter allows for connecting to a CRT TV via RGB SCART. The driver makes outputting 15Khz via VGA from PC possible. Using modelines you are then able to display games in 240p, as originally intended. That's the theory, because getting particular emus to work with all that can be tricky. You need to match the emu's settings and the modelines. I found this for Hatari: https://github.com/TiBeN/15khz-arcade-pkg/blob/master/doc/15khz-package-documentation.md Author recommeds using these settings: # 50Hz Low/Medium resolution (European machine) ModeLine "352x288x50.00" 7.386800 352 368 408 472 288 292 295 313 -HSync -VSync # 60Hz Low/Medium resolution (US machine) ModeLine "352x200x60.00" 7.391520 352 368 408 472 200 222 225 261 -HSync -VSync And several Hatari config adjustments. I've tried the first one (352x288 @ 50Hz) and it sort of looks good (no artifacts) but the aspect ratio is not right. Basically the image has very little H border and is a bit squished, compared to my real STfm which is also displaying on a CRT TV via RGB SCART. The other modeline (352x200) also works but is even more squished and has no horizontal borders. I've tried to fiddle with Hatari display settings in the menu but I don't really know what I'm doing so taht did not yield any results. Any ideas why is that happening? Can somebody suggest a better resolution to make modeline with? Also, could the TOS version affect things? (I did use 1.00 UK with that first resolution).

No need for us to get at each other over a silly machine. I think it's fair enough that there is one thread where VCS can be criticised. Personally, when I do that, it does not mean I think anybody who got one is a moron, far from that. I also have a wardrobe full of whatever and have made many questionable purchases in my time. I don't hold any grudge with the thing itself, it's just a machine - my "hate" is reserved for Atari SA. VCS itself is now out in the wild and I treat it as any hardware out there, without any emotional baggage and comment on it strictly in regard to its price/performance/competitiveness/software base/etc - just like with any other gaming device. Yes, I'm mostly critical* about that, but that is not meant as a slight towards its owners. *even though my criticism is mostly because of the context - on its own the VCS is not actually that bad, if somebody gave me one I'm sure I could put it to good use

I've recently put together a PC-to-CRT rig and became interested in 5th gen (or thereabouts) console emulation. I avoided this area for years since the quality was questionable, and also I'm not interested in displaying old games on modern monitors (though now with shaders being extremely good it's also an option). It's really hard to find some conclusive info because people often tend to exaggerate emulator capabilities and veer into vague hyperbole: eg this exchange re Dreamcast on Pi, or the recent Jag thread from this subforum. I understand that this is somewhat subjective, but perhaps we could try to be a bit more exact, with some hardware requirements as well, which emus are best and what amount of games is playable in a near 1:1 state (I'm not expecting 1:1 emulation of 99% of the given systems library, like with 8/16 bit machines, but this could be some sort of baseline to refer to. Also, by "1:1" I don't mean byuu-level of accuracy - I can tolerate some tiny gfx/sfx glitches, but if there are any major problems like slowdowns, gfx/audio stutter, etc then I'd rather not play such game.) Here's what little info I have have at the moment, mostly based on hearsay: PSX: allegedly extremely good (~1:1) across the whole library, the best of the 5th gen? Few games I tired myslef looked this way. N64: very hard to find unbiased info, so many people "want" it to be great. Is it? It's always been famously hard to emulate. Saturn: not sure. Few games I tried via Retroarch were a mixed bag. Jaguar: that thread was a bit vague, so still don't know really Dreamcast: ok, not a 5th gen but I'm interested (regret selling mine few years back...sob). Can it really run "extremely well"? 3DO: no idea

Few points: -saying PC market is in "decline" sounds like it's in trouble, or that people aren't buying PCs anymore (though I'm not saying it's what you were exactly implying, @godslabrat). This isn't true at all, it's just simply they are not selling as much as they used to because there are other options (and that's before the Covid spike). -the so called "craptops" are perfectly capable of running as everyday machines, doing all the normal-user stuff (at least on performance level, can't speak for build quality and endurance of that Walmart thing). My i3 4GB Lenovo can do just that, and it did survive going around the world couple of times too. -if you managed get the VCS for 300USD (or less) then it's indeed a fairly good deal, but that's mostly because of Covid keeping PC hardware prices on unreasonably high levels. However, VCS is being sold now for 400, and to use it as a Win-level PC you must throw in an external drive + KBM, so that's at least 450USD. For that price I can build a new PC which will have much better specs, or buy a ready made mini-PC with better specs. Nevermind buying a second hand stuff, which will be even better, and shouldn't be discredited because that's what people do as well (and you can't really buy a second hand VCS below RRP). So, no, it's not some pcmasterrace fantasy, just an everyday reality.

Haven't most of the popular emus been ported though? I thought about buying it for that reason some time ago, but I always get distracted by something like the GPD XD, or thinking "ah, should just buy PSP again" and end up getting nothing.

"Trying" is the key word here. But yeah, the prices are a bit wild this year. It's the reason that first time in 20+ years of building PCs I put one together based mostly on new parts. The second hand market prices are so close to RRP now that it actually makes sense. It's funny how one minute VCS is supposed to be a ready-to-go box, and the next everybody is swapping chips and installing non-native OSs. Make your mind up, guys

That is indeed bizarre, when considered now. But back then it wasn't such a big deal, at least to us kids. Everybody knew that you had to get a modulator, and its poor quality wasn't really standing out much since we lacked any sort of comparison material.

NDS is amazing, I still use Lite to play roguelikes and Pirates! on its astonishing 286 emulator. For some emus there is a big problem though: the screen resolution is too small. I think ZX Spectrum and Atari 8-bit fits okay though.

My point was about VRR and tearing/stutter which happens if console's framerate does not match the TVs. In PS2-3 console era it wasn't a big problem because games were locked at 30 fps, few could do 60. But now consoles are fairly powerful and can easily go over 30fps, even 60 fps (depending on game), and TVs can also provide high refresh rates. Without VRR this causes ugly tearing (thsi has always been present on PC, even in old Quake days, but we used V-sync to tame it then, and now monitors with adaptive sync)

I don't think bandwith will matter much since [email protected] is not something that I see happening on consoles (nor PCs for any time soon), outside some simpler titles. Lack of VRR is much more worrying. I do my AAA gaming on a PC these days and can't imagine not being able to use adaptive sync.

It's an amusing article, but it describes some rather extreme cases. Majority of people would know perfectly well what to buy and ask for. Unlike now, back then microcomputing and gaming were domains of some super-serious nerds, so in-depth research was paramount. It was my life back then, and I knew all the brands, but have never ever seen anything else in the wild than the C64/Atari 800/ZX triumwirate, with a random CPC/PC here and there. The other factor was software availability: you'd want a machine which your mates had, or which had presence in pirate computer fairs because otherwise it'd be useless, like that Dragon from the article. There were no shops, and even if there were, you wouldn't be able to afford any games (I struggled with being able to purchase tapes, later disks, for pirated stuff, nevermind paying for originals).

Saturn would be a major coup for MiSTer. Unlike PSX, its emulation is still patchy and real HW much more expensive. But it seems like a big undertaking (even PSX core might not be available this year) so I'll check up on this one in 6 months or so.