José Pereira

October 7, 2009

Sorry, but I need to put you some more questions:

An ANTIC4 Char it's 4x8. A Software Sprite using this Mode it's done with a x number of Chars.

If you move your Soft Sprite 1 Char everytime I understand all that AND/OR logical operations.

But in a game you move it 1 pixel at a time. Can you explain in a simple English/pratical way how this is done, when it overlaps Playfield?

Thankss you all.

José Pereira.

October 7, 2009

Thanks Pete.

So, from what you said: PF2 win.

O.K. but in "this programmer's forget" what wins the PF from Sotware Sprite Char or PF2 always win?

Sorry about this one more questions?

Best regards,

José Pereira.

October 6, 2009

Not an option in my case Probably José's as well if I'm following all his posts properly

Certainly designing a game from scratch I'd try to do it that way.

Pete

Here I am again.

This is just one more of my questions to learn some more possible ways to do some things.

Yes, I'll change all screen...

Taking your example>:

White(PF2) -> PF3 (Change PF3 colour from Red to white)

Red(PF3) -> PF2 (Change PF2 colour from White to Red.

I think now it's simply for you to understand.

As I understand Sotware Sprite movement/overlap Playfield routines are made by logical (AND/OR/...) operations.

What I am trying to know if in some way the programmer forget and a char using PF2 overlap another with PF3 (Logical operation between 11(>127) AND/OR 11(>128)).

(something like different priority bits set on Priority modes, you get Black colour)

Thanks,

José Pereira.

October 6, 2009

Yeah, for 8 pixels then drawing the data into P5 will mask PF2. Switching PF2 and PF3 colours will of course only work if you're not using them elsewhere, or you'd have to inverse the whole screen. I'm not sure exactly what you mean to do with that? If the COLPF2 and 3 registers are white and brown then changing bit 7 of the char will just switch the char from white to brown or vice versa. There's no way to keep one of those colours and not mess up the rest of the screen. I think maybe I just don't understand yet what you're expecting to happen

Pete

I'll change PF2toPF3 and PF3toPF2. Than I'll have to change also PF2 colour(White) to Red and the inverse.

If you're two guys were only 8pixels, you can get one time white Priority and other time Red Priority. Understand now the idea?

Jose Pereira.

October 6, 2009

Hi again.

PeteD you have one White and the other Red, O.K. What I want is one time I get White, and on another ocasion I'll get Red. Think you're two White/Red PFs. in a pseudo 3D like LN/Knight Lore/..., you sometimes have White priority, others Red priority.

I think my second question would fix this, 5th Player (PF3) always above all PFs (almost all times,... that 2+16 bug).

White PF2 change to PF3 and inverse, than use 5th Player. O.k., this will only work in 8pixels normal size (not in your FIST guys of course). Try to underswtand my 2nd question. What you think?

Thanks.

Jose Pereira.

October 6, 2009

Hello again.

In G2F I choose 5th Player enabled, but I cannot do it.

G2F have or not 5th Player possibility?

Thanks one more time.

Jose Pereira.

October 6, 2009

Hello.

I "dreamed" this last night:

If I have a screen full of chars, using PFs. and Backgr., what will happen if a software sprite with PF2 cross a Char with PF3? I know we can use 5th Player, but this one will be always above PF2, and will mask it"... What a coder do when two chars with PF2 and PF3 overlap?

My idea it's PF2 Char overlap PF3 Char, then OR command, I can choose if I'll get PF2 or PF3...

Someone can help?

Another question: For example, if I have White as PF2 and Brown as PF3, can I change PF2 Char to Inverse(PF3), maintaining White colour and the same for PF3 (Change to PF2, maintaning Green colour). This will be very usefull to use with 5th Player and Priorities)?

Any help? Thanks?

Jose Pereira.

October 2, 2009

If you want to use software sprites in a screen similar to one created by G2F you have to limit a lot of things. The software sprites can only be made from PF colours and not BG colour (else any PMGs will show "through" your guys). You also can't change PF colours anywhere the guys will walk else they'll change colour as well.

I've looked fairly extensively at LN as a possible future project and it's very possible to do the guys as software sprites with software masking (as I talked about a while ago in the LN thread). That leaves all the PMGs for extra background colour. If you watch on the C64 version, most of the time if an enemy is on screen and has different colour "clothes" they tend to be the same as a predominant part of the background (or a near colour), so you use a PF colour for that also then you get multicolour software sprites and colourful backgrounds. Its exactly the same as I'm doing with Exploding Fist apart from there being no "masking" because the Fist guys don't go underneath anything.

You can of course use "spare" PMGs as extra colours for the guys, but imho that isn't needed and they're better suited to working in the background.

Pete

Thanks Pete. That is what I thinked (PF0-Black for Body, PF1-Hands/Eyes, but you cannot use other PFs. If PF2 it's green for example, you cannot use PF3 for enemy clothe, and PF3 as 5th PL. very difficult, I taked all shapes from That old LN engine, You Tube videos, Playing the game and it does not work (I think) in any of the Priority Modes when Players overlapp.

If you use only PF0 and PF1 for the guys you can have PF2/PF3 and Backgr. to change with DLIs.

You can use 2Pms for the guys.

Best is Priority 2(PM0/1-»(5th PL.)-»PF0/1-»PF2/3-PM2/3-»Backgr.) and Priority 8 (PF0/1-»PM0/1-»PM2/3-(5th PL.)-»PF2/3-»Backgr.). Change between this two Priority modes when Ninja have or not ppriority over Enemy.

My best idea (I think) it's PF0/1 for the Ninja/Enemy Body/Hands/Eyes, and P0 for Ninja Weapon, P1 for Enemy Clothe and if I use 5t Player for the nemy weapon begins the problem... Change beetwen P0 and P1 according to WHO HAS THE PRIORITY, it's simple, Enemy Weapon as 5th PL. doesn't fit in any of the Priority Modes.

The idea of PL. for Ninja Weapon it is to put different colours according to what weapon (Nunchakus/Staff - Brown, Swword (White).

Enemy Clothe as PL. because you cannot use PF2/3, colour clash problem and it will look better.

And if you start withh Priority2 you gget the first 2Pms. (also 5th PL.) above Pfs.. and youu sttill have PM2/3 to use under all PFs. I've tried in many screenns and this work. And you must not forget that you only have Enemys in 50/60% of the total game screens.

Thanks.

José Pereira.

October 2, 2009

Hello.

We can create lots of screens using G2F (DLIs.+PMG colour enhancements), but is it possible to use a software sprite routine on the numerous screens.

You all know all my obssession about Last Ninja. I'vee been trying many things. What I said here using some PMs. for Players could work in LN1, but impossible in LN2 (need maany PMs for screen color enhancements).

The idea and my question it's if I for example create Players using PFs withh 1/2 Pms. on them, I can move them in each screen, done with G2F. The Software Sprite Engine will be the same for all screens, but I''ll get them in Multi-Load mode.

All this because I've been trying to create all the screen objects with an Editor, like C64, but even with many charsets, with only 128 chars and probably 40chars fot the Players Software Sprites it's impossble (I think?)...

Some of the coders here can help me and answer this?

And by the way what you all around here would do/use/ideas if you want to do LN o A8?

Thanks.

José Pereira.

September 30, 2009

That type of thing would be useful for what José is trying to do by plotting a copy of the foreground "shape" into P3 and drawing a "sprite" in Pm5. Of course you're still limited to the size it's of any use for. Does it work on all the playfields or just PF0?

Pete

PeteD, can you explain better what you have in mind, try to use some easy English... How this can help me, for example, in all my Last Ninja thoughts and ideas?

Thanks.

Jose Pereira.

September 30, 2009

That type of thing would be useful for what José is trying to do by plotting a copy of the foreground "shape" into P3 and drawing a "sprite" in Pm5. Of course you're still limited to the size it's of any use for. Does it work on all the playfields or just PF0?

Pete

Here's a picture showing PF0,1, and 2 and all 4 players.

Only PRIOR mode $18 yields unexpected behavior, giving Player 5 a dual-priority at the top and bottom.

Hello all!

Bryan can you post here your program listing or the file?

You use an Emulator or a real machine?

First: You use Priority 2 with 5th Player enabled (2+16). And with this: P0/1-»5th Player-»All PFs-»P2/3-»Backgr.

Soo, how that 2PLs. are only on top of one PF. That two have to be P0/P1, right?

Second: Can you simply do the P0/P1/P2/P3 without DLIs. (Normal size, and just one P0, one P1 and soo on), please.

Third: You are using ANTIC mode 4 or E (Gr.12 or 7)?

Fourth: Not important, but try to use for example yellow, pink,... (different type of colours for each PLayer).

Something here doesn't fit. It is not only one bug (if it is a real bug!...), I count two bugs: when 5th PLayer overlap other Players in the Playfield and P0/P1 doesn't have priority with all the PFs.

P.S. - Another thing, that came to my mind in this momment: Do what you show here, but without PFs, just Pls. overlap 5th PLayer.

Have you try with other priority numbers?

Thanks for your attention.

Jose Pereira.

September 16, 2009

16 - WEST BANK (BANK PANIC)/ BANK BANG !

C64 (it's unofficial release, so maybe STE could tell us more about it )

C64

C64

The C64 version has better music, graphics, handling and more colours. The Atari version is poor and awkward (when you want to change a door, often you kill somebody by accident). On Atari there also aren't any gun duels after finished levels. C64 shot Atari again.

ATARI

ATARI

ATARI

Hello all.

Who said some days ago, that would like to see some game using Priority 0. The same for Bottom: The Balcon and bootom Scores can be in Hi-Resol. like C64 with PMs. addiction.

Select the correct colours for PFs0/1 and 2/3 then some good G2F artist simply can do it...

By the way, was EMKAY?

I'll try something with G2F, probably just for having more knowledge.

Bye,

José Pereira.

September 11, 2009

Joined: 02-March 05

Location: Lisbon - Portugal

Hello.

It's me again.

Thank all for your help.

Yes, I know all that of 1,2,4,8 and 0 priority numbers.

But I was wondering what I could get with the other possible numbers.

In what you are saying, something I don't understand.

This picture (Horrible I know, just trying to be fast):

NINJA -PM0 and his Weapon PM1 on Multicolour mode

Enemy - PM2 and his clothe PM3 " "

Simply Priority 1 (Over all PFs.+Backgr.)

If ninja have priority over Enemy then Ninja(PM0/1) and if Enemy has the priority, simply PM0/1 to Enemy and Ninja's change to PM2/3.

But here comes the questions, in the LN particular case the Players overlap eachother. So, will this have anything in the colours, when they overlap?

ANOTHER QUESTION:The other possible decimal numbers all give black on all overlap places conflict(in all, all, no other lost/masked trick)? But what you mean of conflict? Only between PMs overlap or also with PMs.+PFs?

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Rybags

Posted Today, 11:21 AM

Post #7

Quadrunner

Posts: 5,246

Joined: 29-September 05

Location: Australia

You can't get conflict with Players over Players, except Missiles if being used as 5th Player.

Player priorities among Player 0 to 3 are set and remain regardless... of course there's the multicolour Player option that causes mix rather than overlap but only with 0/1 and 2/3 pairs.

The definition "conflict" - easy. Just look at the table showing priority sequence and compare if you have multiple bit setting. If one says "PL2 and PL3 on top of Playfield" but the other bitsetting says that Playfield is on top of PL2/3, then you have conflict.

This post has been edited by Rybags: Today, 11:22 AM

Stellar Shuttle, now with interlace and rotating rocks

Real Interlace (480i) on the Atari (demo)

Atari technical reference manuals thread

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José Pereira

Posted Today, 11:42 AM

Post #8

Chopper Commander

Posts: 221

Joined: 02-March 05

Location: Lisbon - Portugal

Thanks Rybags. I'm getting it.

For example 0011. Decimal number 3.

Bit 0 - (1) All PMs above PFs - Priority 1

Bit 1 - (1) PM0/1 -» PFs. -» PM2/3 -» Backgr. - Priority 2

If I put this two I'll get PM0/1 with and without priority with PFs, so eachtime they overlap PFs. I get black colour.

If I understand this, and I think i did this will be on all priorities in this way.

I have one idea, I have it, and with just the traditional priority numbers, but with this, oh,... I think you make my day!!!!.....

I'm going to do some study.

Thanks. You're great.

And A8, even with this GPRIOR and conflicts are a real wonderfull machine. An unique one.

I always wanted to know who was the brain(s) for this unreal/out of this world computer machine? How can someone think this kind of things!...

Any other old or more recent computer or Video Game System as something like this Priors Conflicts, Overlaps...?

Bye now,

José Pereira.

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José Pereira

Posted Today, 1:00 PM

Post #9

Chopper Commander

Posts: 221

Joined: 02-March 05

Location: Lisbon - Portugal

José Pereira, on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:09 AM, said:

Hello.

It's me again.

Thank all for your help.

Yes, I know all that of 1,2,4,8 and 0 priority numbers.

But I was wondering what I could get with the other possible numbers.

In what you are saying, something I don't understand.

This picture (Horrible I know, just trying to be fast):

last_ninja_02.PNG

NINJA -PM0 and his Weapon PM1 on Multicolour mode

Enemy - PM2 and his clothe PM3 " "

Simply Priority 1 (Over all PFs.+Backgr.)

If ninja have priority over Enemy then Ninja(PM0/1) and if Enemy has the priority, simply PM0/1 to Enemy and Ninja's change to PM2/3.

But here comes the questions, in the LN particular case the Players overlap eachother. So, will this have anything in the colours, when they overlap?

ANOTHER QUESTION:The other possible decimal numbers all give black on all overlap places conflict(in all, all, no other lost/masked trick)? But what you mean of conflict? Only between PMs overlap or also with PMs.+PFs?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW WILL I GET THE LN SPRITES:

I thinked and no, in LAST NINJA, I will get so many conflicts, but these thing of the CONFLICTS may be usefull on other games.

I'll return to my old way.

Now it's time to reveal it!... I said I discouver. I am wondering how this takes me months...

Just see these picture with the two uggly Players.

PM0/1 to Ninja body and Weapons

PM2/3 to Enemy body and clothe

Using Multicolour I get a third colour on Enemy(PM for Shoes and Eyes and 3rd colour for the clothe).

In Ninja PM as Black for Body and another PM for the Weapon. Here I don't get Multicolour (All colours with black give us this colours on overlap). I get Brown and Black for the Nunchakus, Brown for the Staff and White for the Sword.

Only one colour that is the same in all the game. Pf0 - Black. Use PF0 for Enemy Weapon.

Normally use Priority 1(All Players priority over PFs.)

Normally Ninja PM0/1 and Enemy PM2/3 When they overlap, if Enemy has priority change Ninja to PM2/3 and Enemy to PM0/1.

Because PF0 (Ninja Weapon) it's Black, when it overlap Ninja body, it will be under Ninja body, but you don't see, because it's the same colour as Ninja Body.

Carefully use of the position of Ninja Weapon when overlap Enemy weapon.

Weapons always under Bodys.

Better than C64, because Ninja different colours for weapons.

Better than C64 - 3 colours for Enemy (I can get that coloured Enemys in LN2/3). O.k., no Hi-Resol. Sprites, but here we don't have any choice.

Only something like ten twelve shapes for Ninja Weapon1 and 2(Nunchakus - only 3/4). Only two Software Sprites in all the game.

The other Enemys and moving objects are PMs. (See the C64 version, when the Dragon fires, the waterfall, the bird, The Magic Fountain, Objects to catch, you don't have Enemy on this screens, and on A8 you can have it, if you use DLIs and put them on another lines).

You may think that no possible, because I must have PMs. to colour thgings. O.K. Yes, and no!...

First the Enemys only appear in 50/60% of the total game screens, and here you can use Priority 2 (only Ninja above Pfs.).

But also on screens with Enemy if they are on diffrent lines.

Another thing, it's that I only have one colour that has to be the same for all the screens (PF0 - Black, because of the Enemy Weapons). I can say you that I have some screens by now, and all seen and know how and where I'll put DLIs. and PMs.

I also have done some redesign of the Status Area (Many colours on letters) and you'll see all the objects and Weapons coloured with their real colours.

But another great thing can become true.

I can get with the using of PMs and with Prioritys numbers simple change in concrete place and/or PMs. changing numbers the Ninja walking on the floor with or without Priority over the screen graphics.

Another simple trick it's if I use GPRIOR0, Ninja Body (Black), doesn't get Overlap (Black always loose), so simply put of GPRIOR0 let Ninja be cover by PF0/1 but will walk on the Grass (PF2), Over Trees PF3(Brown) and Backgr.(The walkway). Or if Ninja is PM2 it can walk Under all the objects (This only work untill the middle of the first Level, Because Ninja it's only 1PM, it's untill he catches his first Weapon).

Ninja can simply walk on all the screen. And what is really great here, is that you just have 2 Software Sprites, so more simple fast, where are the MASKS? No need. Just Software Sprites for Enemy 2 Weapons.

I've taken and almost all Ninja/Enemy/SKeletor/Ghost/Magic Fountain/BIrd/Waterfall by now.

Also all the weapons for the Control Panel.

Some minor problems with the Status Panels, but nothing impossible.

O.K.! I have one problem:

When Ninja goes Up you don't see the Eyes and Hands, but when he moves down you see them. The hands, they can be Black, like the Enemy It has the hands with the same colour as the Body), but the Eyes. But I have a solution. I Have the other Ninja Missile free (the ones from the Weapons), I can Put in on the Eyes. I'll get one problen, sometimes Brown, and other White. But it will not be many of a problem (The Eyes it's just one Pixel and only when Ninja moves down, you probably almost never see it). But if some good coder have the solution, it will be great.

As you all know, I'm not a programmer so I'll try to the screens, objects on this basics. If someone wants to helps, GREAT. If some coder want to do with me GREAT. If some has better ideas GREAT. But not the ones that I'm trying to do as I want. Or I cannot do this!...

I have get all of this. If no one will code it or give ideas, no problem. I'll do LN1/2/3 and even the version from the Soa's Editor. Even if this takes me years.

This idea I have, it's so simple that have nothing that cannot work. Memory it's not a problem. Cartridge release (HOW GREAT IT WAS), but even Multiload, no problem. The other one from Poland done the screens of one Level of LN2 (The Sewers) and they load in Emulator almost instantly (By the way, I've been there on Atarionline PROJECT "LAST NINJA" and I got all his stuff with "disabled" message).

Your Atarily,

JOSÉ AGOSTINHO LOPES PEREIRA GODINHO.

LAST NINJA

I'LL BE BACK WITH SOMETHING MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!...............................

September 11, 2009

Hello.

It's me again.

Thank all for your help.

Yes, I know all that of 1,2,4,8 and 0 priority numbers.

But I was wondering what I could get with the other possible numbers.

In what you are saying, something I don't understand.

This picture (Horrible I know, just trying to be fast):

NINJA -PM0 and his Weapon PM1 on Multicolour mode

Enemy - PM2 and his clothe PM3 " "

Simply Priority 1 (Over all PFs.+Backgr.)

If ninja have priority over Enemy then Ninja(PM0/1) and if Enemy has the priority, simply PM0/1 to Enemy and Ninja's change to PM2/3.

But here comes the questions, in the LN particular case the Players overlap eachother. So, will this have anything in the colours, when they overlap?

ANOTHER QUESTION:The other possible decimal numbers all give black on all overlap places conflict(in all, all, no other lost/masked trick)? But what you mean of conflict? Only between PMs overlap or also with PMs.+PFs?