SwinginDick
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Posts posted by SwinginDick
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There has been a modded controller with a vcs paddle on the back of a standard Jaguar controller with a switch to switch between the driving wheel and the d-pad. You made the Chaos Reins rotaries correct?
Correct.
I know many people like the Jedi Jeff rotary , which is hard as hell to locate and carries a premium when found. It is unlike the rest cause its not made from the Jaguar controller shell. My favorite personally is the Chaos Reins,but all of them are nicely built and do the job.
A B2K rotary would be AWESOME!
JAGUAR RULES! Thanks!
I've never seen a Jedi Jeff rotary. I've played with the idea of making a not-based-on-a-Jag-controller spinner, but every time I do the math, it becomes such a costly beastie that I can't imagine selling enough of them to make it commercially worthwhile. Maybe 20 years ago I'd be in it just for the fun of it, but with 3 kids and a career, I find it hard to find the time for the one controller I sell now. Still, this is something I keep thinking about doing, if I can figure out how to make it really nice for a reasonable price.
-Rick
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T3k would be cool with a rotary, but a) I don't think he included code for them, and b) where on earth would you find nuon-compatible plugs? let alone the custom chips used to encode the data to the appropriate serial stream. I suppose the protocol could be reverse engineered and the chips replaced with off the shelf parts, but the plugs alone would make such a project a nightmare.
I had a brief posting "chat" with Minter about this. Apparently, the nuon controllers have a built-in ability to accept a grey-code encoder somewhere on the main MCU. However, the few companies that made the controllers never bothered to put the spinner on. The MCU in the controller is a custom part and (surprise!) no one has any idea where the specs are for it. Minter said that he had a controller modified with a spinner "somewhere" and offered to send it to me so I could figure out how to make more, but I never heard back from him. And, I really never followed up.
For this, and for a basic B2K spinner, I was thinking about adding a simple MCU that would read the encoder and then modulate the left and right button inputs accordingly. I think I discussed this on another thread in here somewhere and was cautioned that it wouldn't work well, which may be the case, but I'm a pretty tenacious bastard and I'll probably try it anyway.
Back to T3K - since the game is so insane (almost unplayable in a standard Tempest kind of way) the button-based control is OK. I'm not sure that a spinner would really help all that much, although there seems to be a demand for it.
-Rick
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Duuuuudes,
Here we all are - the Three Amigos of the T2K spinners! Very cool. It's nice to finally chat with the two of you after all these years.
My story (not that anyone asked!):
I just wanted to tell you both (Jon and Tyrant) that you guys were a big influence in my decision to make and sell my spinners. I've sold about 135 of them so far (since 2005) and the response from my customers has been fantastic. Tyrant - you were the original inspiration; I saw a photo of your original modded controller somewhere and thought "Cool! Hey, I could do that!". Then I saw Jon selling his on eBay and (since they were coming from UK) were quite pricey. I thought "How hard could it be? I've designed hi-end audio gear with shaft encoders, and Minter pretty much describes what needs to be done in various articles, so what the heck?!" I bought a Jaggy and some parts and just sort of did it. After making a couple for myself, I figured there had to be a market for these things, so I located a steady supply of parts and went for it.
Some thoughts on the thread (and your "spat", Tyrant and Jon):
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* The whole "G" vs. "B"-series controllers argument as a "differentiator" is silly. I've modified and sold tons of both types. Yes, the internal construction is different, but we all know the electrical modification is the same (at least if you do it right!
). Sure, the mechanical mods are different due to the extra plastic frame piece in the "B"-series controller, as well as the odd internal case shape, but these are details, folks - nothing a drill press and file can't fix. At the end of the day there is no difference to our end customers worth discussing, certainly nothing worth paying extra for. Personally, I prefer the "G"-series controllers because the internal construction is simpler, but no one besides the three of us cares!
* Who got there first? C'mon, does it really matter? All props to you both. As Michael Palin so adroitly said "This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about 'oo killed 'oo". Guys - here we all are, the only three that have successfully built and sold these things. Certainly a small club and a good thing, no?!? Really, it isn't that hard to figure out what to do, once you read the interviews with Minter. I freely admit that I am the follower here, but my customers really don't seem to care about that when they get the controllers and kick huge T2K ass.
* Tyrant - go for it! You should jump back in with both feet. I've had a number of sales worldwide, and in the UK in particular, so the demand is there. However, the shipping out of the US to Asia and Europe is really high. It would actually be great to have you making these things there as the shipping should be substantially less for our mutual customers outside the US.
* I've used eBay Fixed Price listings for the bulk of my sales and it works well enough. eBay fees are highway robbery, but there isn't much else you can do. The same for PayPal - ridiculous fees, but no other viable alternative. I've also secured "distribution" with Dan Loosen at the GOAT store (www.goatstore.com) - he was buying lots of 10 controllers from me at a "wholesale" price and selling them at whatever price he felt was fair. That also worked well, so you may want to think about that avenue. It certainly makes it easier for you as a producer as you don't have to worry about order fulfillment, which can be a nuisance.
*You guys want to talk about real innovation? We should be thinking about the following list of projects:
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* A spinner for use with B2K (exclusively or combined with T2K)
* A spinner for Nuon/T3K
* A spinner for T2K that won't actually commandeer the D-pad so that the controller can be used for other games
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I have some ideas for the first two, but not the time. How about you guys?
So, that was my two cents, sure to anger someone I suppose, but that was not my intent. I'm actually really happy to have the chance to give something back to the Jag community, even if I wasn't the first one to the table.
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Too bad, I would love to able play CF with working spinner!CF would actually be more usable. The control scheme of CF sucks due to the fact that the
programmer is treating the joystick as if it were a spinner. IT may actually work for that game.
I'll have to look at that source code again.
It will work for all the games but you will not be happy with the response......read you will rather
use the joystick.
Then you can just hang tight for Paddle Baddles 3D.........then you can have four player real encoders.
Maybe SD can make simpler versions useful for Paddle Baddles 3D. Paddle Baddles 3D right
now uses four VCS driving controllers using an adapter in port two. I use the DSP to read them all
very swiftly.....here is my proto adapter....
Gorf - what do you have in mind for "simpler" controllers?
By the way - love the rats nest for adapting the driving controllers
It's hideous! -
I tried to make one for Breakout 2000, but it just doesn't work very well. The main problem is the way the game was coded. Any version of breakout that doesn't accept some type of paddle controller input takes away the whole point of the game. If somebody could hack the original code and put a rotary option in there it would be worth making a new controller for it. It might even make the game more fun.Jeff
Jeff,
How did you integrate the encoder (logically not physically)? I was thinking of generating "fake" short left and right button actuations in response to CW or CCW rotation. Is this what you tried? If this is a waste of time, I won't bother even trying - I am assuming that smarter guys than myself have tried this already
-SD
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Too bad, I would love to able play CF with working spinner!CF would actually be more usable. The control scheme of CF sucks due to the fact that the
programmer is treating the joystick as if it were a spinner. IT may actually work for that game.
I'll have to look at that source code again.
It will work for all the games but you will not be happy with the response......read you will rather
use the joystick.
Then you can just hang tight for Paddle Baddles 3D.........then you can have four player real encoders.
Maybe SD can make simpler versions useful for Paddle Baddles 3D. Paddle Baddles 3D right
now uses four VCS driving controllers using an adapter in port two. I use the DSP to read them all
very swiftly.....here is my proto adapter....
What is Paddle Baddles 3D? A homebrew? tell me more....
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Unless you re-write the input code, you wont be able to use an encoder. No matterhow fast you turn that encoder, the code is set to a max speed and you wont be able
to pull off a paddle feel at all.
When you push a Joystick into a certain direction, it enables a switch.
The code reads that input port and looks for that switch. A 1 or a 0.
1 means move, 0 means no movement.
Encoders send out two bits(a typical gaming one) and
the info is nothing like a switch on and off.
When moving CW, you get 00,01,11,10 repeating as you turn.
When moving CCW, you get 10,11,01,00 repeating as you turn.
(typically)
To use an encoder (spinner), the best you could do is
have a circuit that pulses like you say but you will never
get your paddle to move any faster than the joystick can.
You wont ever be able to 'jump' from one side of the
screen to the other like you can in other paddle/encoder
games.
Gorf,
Agreed, there is a significant challenge. Obviously, no one is going to be rewriting the game code, so the next best thing is to simulate left and right button depressions. I think that I can use a couple of flip-flops that are edge triggered off of the encoder outputs to simulate left and right signals. The challenge will be to make sure that the outputs are long enough to enable reliable "depressions" when the encoder is turned quickly yet short enough to get a rapid series of them, although I suppose if the output is stuck high it will appear as if the button is held down... Hmmmmm. The other thing that has to be done is some sort of automatic reset circuit that prevents the outputs from latching when the encoder is stopped midway through a phase. Lots to think about, yeah?
This will require some time to get right, if it can be done at all. The good news is, that if I can get it right for this, I have a fighting chance of doing something similar for the Tempest 3K on NUON.
-SD
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Well, it depends....As I play this game only with 2 players, I should be needing two controllers.
Do you have any idea of how much the costs will be?
Not yet - I haven't done any actual engineering. Just getting a feel for the "market" first.
-SD
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please let me know : are the chaos reigns still available? if so, where?Yessir, I am still cranking out spinners. You can buy one here: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 280189755410 or go to the GOAT store (www.goatstore.com).
Yeah, I also saw the cart from SweetStuff4U - I hesitate to make the investment if there is no interest in a controller. Depending on the responses here, I may just buy it, though. That's how I got into this business in the first place ....
-SD
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Hey folks,SwinginDick (aka chaos reins) here. I'm thinking of making a spinner to control Breakout 2000. Any interest for something like this?
Also, if I embark on this project, can anyone "lend" me a copy of the cartridge for development purposes (since I don't have a copy of the game myself)? In return, I will give this person controller #1 free of charge for their trouble.
Comments and questions encouraged.
-SD
humm,id be interested in helping you by lending you a Breakout 2000 cart.
id probably want to buy a few extras too! 
by the way i think your rotary controller is very AWESOME! i love mine! great job buddy!
Thanks!
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also, still making chaos reins ?Thanks for the offer - I'll see if I can find someone with a cart.
Yep - still making the controllers, I've got a batch up for sale on eBay right now. Also, I think Dan at the GOAT store still has some. I'm having some trouble with my ISP right now, so the site is down yet again.
-SD
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Hmmm, would something like that could work with let say with CF, CD, WTR too?Not sure what those games are (sorry!) - not too good with acronyms and I haven't had my coffee yet!
-SD
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Breakout 2000 doesnt have a spinner option so how are you going to do this?
Well, my plan was to incorporate some combinational logic to generate left and right button depressions for CW and CCW rotation of the encoder.
This isn't too hard to do, I don't think.
-SD
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Hey folks,
SwinginDick (aka chaos reins) here. I'm thinking of making a spinner to control Breakout 2000. Any interest for something like this?
Also, if I embark on this project, can anyone "lend" me a copy of the cartridge for development purposes (since I don't have a copy of the game myself)? In return, I will give this person controller #1 free of charge for their trouble.
Comments and questions encouraged.
-SD
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Anyone have a Chaos Reins controller for Tempest 2k? I'm wondering how it compares to some of the other rotaries out there.
Hell - I LOVE 'em!
Actually, I've never opened up one of John's (or Tyrant's for that matter) but in terms of construction, I initially epoxied the whole thing together but that proved to be a pain in the neck. I switched over to a purely mechanical method of construction late last year that takes advantage of the Jag controller's guts to effectively sandwich all the components together nice an snugly. This prevents the exact problem that JustClaws was talking about where abuse can cause the encoder to break free. It was a serendipitous combination of the encoder size and the Jaggy controllers construction.
The only other difference that people mention is that I use a detentless encoder to make the spinner feel more like the real thing, though it is a far cry from the original arcade masterpiece. This was a conscious desicion I made right at the begining, but seems to be a matter of taste. Some folks say they like the tactile feedback offered by the detents, others don't or don't care. Life's rich pageant, as I always say (well not always, I do say other things now and then).
Hey, like I say on my site - buy one and try it. If you hate it (which I assure you that you won't) send it back within 30 days for a complete refund.
-SwinginDick
Buttons Suck. Get control of Tempest 2000 with a chaos reins spinner.
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The site is back up - finally!
This has been quite a learning experience. And do yourselves a favor, if you are looking for a web hosting service, don't use BeHosted. Once my year contract is up, I am outta there. I have no idea what broke to begin with, but they made it worse every single day with their "fixes". I eventually stumbled on a real fix and got the files back up there and all seems to be well. In short, they suck.
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Well, my hosting company really screwed me. My site is completely hosed! And of course, since I'm such a spaz in terms of web development, I don't have a complete backup of the site. So, I'm still here, but it will be a few days to a week before I can get the site back up to it's normal state.
Please be sure to enjoy the lame placeholder that is there (my original attempt at PHP-Nuke from about two months ago).
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There is no website configured at this address.You are seeing this page because there is nothing configured for the site you have requested. If you think you are seeing this page in error, please contact the site administrator or datacenter responsible for this site.
hmmm.... what happened?
I don't know - I just saw this this morning. I'm working with my hosting company to get this back up; it has to be some screw up on their end.
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See what I mean? I'm DEFINITELY no web guy.
Sorry about that, but the email link in the description on the site somehow got nuked.
Anyway, I'll fix it for future reference and I'll send you a Private Message with my mailing address and payment info.
-SwinginDick
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Folks,
I've finally got somewhat of a site up for my Tempest controller "venture" (http://www.chaosreins.com) and I'd love it if you all would (in your spare time) wander on by and check it out. I'm still learning about PHP-Nuke (the CMS I used to construct the site) and all of the various stuff that goes along with web development (I'm a EE, not a web guy). I'd appreciate any feedback, suggestions, etc. Over the next few weeks I will be hopefully nailing down all of the details and getting more content up there and getting all of the plubming working, etc.
This commuinity has been really supportive over the last few months as I've started my little venture and I've kind of reached the next step. I wanted to share it with you all. Thanks!
Oh, and if you are looking for Jag rotary controllers .....
-SwinginDick
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I'm still selling my rotary controllers. I've got two left and I sold a bunch to The GOAT Store (http://www.goatstore.com) - I'm going to let them distribute them for the near future so I can focus on a couple of projects I've got up my sleeve for the Jag and NUON.
Try Dan at the GOAT store first - if he can't help you, then I'll sell to you direct.
Also check out my (still in disarray) website (http://www.chaosreins.com) for current and future Tempest controller projects.
-SwinginDick
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Well, that's tragic.
Any reason in particular for the halt on making these? I remember mentioning to you a while back that I intended to buy one and regretfully, never got around to it.
Any chance of cranking out just one more of these trophies for the 'ol collection?
Two things:
1. Jon - why are you getting out of the biz? What happened?
2. Saturn - I still have controllers for sale. $55, including shipping. Let me know if you want one (or more!)
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Not useful for anything else, just T2K.
In theory, I could get a similar encoder, but with the detent option. It would be a "special order" in that I don't have any on hand and I have to purchase a small quantity. It would be a little more money because I have to buy a different encoder. Another option is to buy one of Jon Ascough's controllers - I think he uses a detented encoder; you can find them on eBay. If you don't want to buy one of his and you are really hell-bent on this, drop me a line at [email protected] and we can work something out.
-Rick
www.chaosreins.com
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I'm even located in central New England so that's gotta be somewhere near QuaintMy friend, its all quaint!
Check my site periodically for the availability of the controller.
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Rotary Controllers
in Atari Jaguar
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Can't be one of mine - I've never made one with an encoder with detents. Besides, if it was one of mine it would be clearly identified with a label on the back.
-Rick