JJohnson
-
Content Count
62 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by JJohnson
-
-
I saw a video comparing a number of versions of Lode Runner for various consoles, and I was wondering if this has been done for the 2600 yet. It looks like it's simple enough for the 2600, 5400, or 7800 to do. I think it could be fun!
-
On 4/26/2019 at 2:17 PM, pboland said:Just PM me if interested. Here's a small sample of just a few of the labels I offer:
I also offer actual foil labels for Imagic, Data Age, and many different Atari labels.
That's awesome! I have quite a few cartridges whose stickers have seen better days.
-
On 10/11/2018 at 1:41 AM, DINTAR816 said:Hello, here I am again, after 2 months, here is the test version with "cornerig" (finally!), it works fine (I think), I just need to improve it a bit.DZ-jay, your method is difficult to apply here because it would require a lot of rom (many tables) for example I would need 4 times more rom for the "move delta" table (that is, 256), since my method uses 8 x 8 virtual tiles , thank you anyway for the detailed explanation, since it inspired me to make this possible.Now it is also possible to increase the speed of the game with the right switch (in the "A" position the speed increases).Enjoy.
pacman2600_8k_v8test_corn.bin 8 kB · 1,388 downloads
Would it be possible to get this on a cartridge?
-
1
-
-
On 5/11/2019 at 11:20 AM, KaeruYojimbo said:A lot of the improvements noticeable between the 4K game developed by Dennis Debro and the 8K game developed by dintar are present in dintar's 4K version of Pac-Man (including the intermissions). The extra 4K isn't what makes it a better game.
Pac-Man is a pretty no-fills game when you get down to it. With the exception of a 2-player mode, there's nothing missing from the 8K game that doubling the ROM would make possible (and that won't take another 8K). Adding more ROM won't change the graphic limitations of the 2600 hardware itself or eliminate flicker. A 16K game would allow you to go beyond a straight port and add new mazes and different game modes, but not necessarily make a more accurate port.
I kind of wish we could get more mazes. The same maze over and over gets old.
-
Most recently, Pitfall II and Othello (2600 versions).
And Space Invaders (red box) if you count the Father-in-Law gift I got my father-in-law.
-
1
-
-
13 hours ago, MrMaddog said:I already did the "what if Atari still lives" thing myself over a decade ago and still have the outline on my hard drive. Basically it involved Bushnell not selling Atari to Warner, releasing the Super VCS (3200) and letting Steve Jobs manage the computer division. Atari branded iPhones & Xboxes anyone?
Looking back I realize it was a form of wishful thinking on my part and a longing to have some kind of closure with a brand that gave me pleasant memories that just 'died' in spite of multiple ownerships. Although I still missed using my Atari STe from my college days, something that symbolized my happier times, I now find the same enjoyment with my current Windows 10 PC & Xbox One setup which now includes my Android phone and Amazon Fire Cube.
If anything, my research into the history of Atari to find out that "one thing" that went wrong turned up many things that went wrong. So rather than be an angry young man from before or an old grouch, I just learned to enjoy whatever Atari game or product I can play with instead of wishing the company became as big as Apple or Nintendo.
I do wish the OP best luck with his book and recommend doing a lot of online research (like looking up old magazines). But I will say that there's a far more receptive audience on the Alternate History Web Site for this stuff than on any retrogaming forum.
Looking back, there are certainly multiple things Atari did that were missed opportunities. If they had made one or two changes here and there, perhaps the computer division could've stayed around longer as could the console. If they could have used the computer cartridges straight over to the 5200 without any changes other than perhaps repackaging, that might've been helpful on that console as well.
Any alt-timeline can be wishful thinking, of course. Thanks for the recommendation for the Alt-Hist site. I'll check it out. Have a good one.
-
1
-
-
15 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:Too late, much fun has been had with the report feature.
Man, it doesn't matter where you look anymore, everyone is just bitching and moaning 24/7. Why do people torture themselves this way? It is very simple, if you don't like people that disagree with you, or find your ideas silly, stay off the internet.
And to the OP, as a serious side note:
1.) What do you want to accomplish with your book? If it is just for your enjoyment, I wish you the best of luck!
2.) Will you be super disappointed, when nobody buys it? If you are in it for the money, you are in for a surprise.
3.) Will you visit critics at their home at night and stalk their families?
Just making sure, you sound like you are already on the edge.
1. The act of being published for my own enjoyment.
2. No. I would be proud that I got it published.
3. No, that would be weird.
-
3
-
-
1 hour ago, youxia said:You're saying this in a tone which assumes that everyone here should care about it. If you really are writing a book then all the best to you, but you should be aware that trying to use it as an argument sounds at best pompous. Everyone and their granny is "writing a book", or at least can claim so on the internet, so it's really nothing special.
The reason for jokes and mocking replies could well be the fact that there are bazillion "alternative timeline", what-if threads on this board. Many of them were started as pure trolling, and even the well-intentioned ones more often than not descend into flame wars and absurd arguments. So perhaps some of us could be excused for being a little bit exasperated with them, and having a laugh instead of a "serious discussion".
That first sentence is an assumption. No one has to care about anything I do; and if not, they can choose to scroll past and ignore the post, rather than leave something non-constructive. I've already written about 350 pages-worth so far, including random obscurities like 'free silver' from the late 19th century, so it is also not attempting to sound pompous, which is also an assumption, rather than assuming someone means well until proven otherwise. Tone can be difficult to gather in the written word, but I generally tend to give the benefit of the doubt rather than have a nihilistic and negative assumption when reading posts until the text shows otherwise.
I've not read or searched for any other possible 'what if' threads, which is why I posted attempting to get some helpful responses, rather than sarcastic or snarky or dismissive responses. A few posters here were quite helpful, which is appreciated. I have fond memories of Atari growing up which is why I was trying to write it into my story, and I assumed other people on this forum were also nostalgic and would be helpful and respectful. That could be the mistake I made, especially with a few people I saw.
-
9 minutes ago, MrTrust said:You say this as if it's just an entropic certitude, but if any thread "descends" into such a state, someone's responsible for the initial push.
100% of the time, recently, I've noticed the opening salvo is launched by all the old farts, and then when the target doesn't politely cave and go away, they start braying about how the person they just gratuitously insulted is going to get the thread locked or start a flame war. Then, when confronted with the fact that they're the ones who introduced all the asshole behavior in the fist place, you get "lighten up, francis".
Said my bit; not interested in a debate on the issue. Don't bother. Don't apologize for the thread, @JJohnson. The people complaining about the thread being a problem are 100% the people causing the problem. And they all know who they are, and they're the exact ones doing it in the other threads, too. Just ignore it and watch how fast it stops.
Spot on. Hope you have a great day.
-
Considering you brought in 'ASSTR', you brought in snark first. Your comment was neither helpful nor kind.
-
Of course, with emulation, we could theoretically alter the Stella emulator to allow 256 bytes, and so on to see what we could get away with.
Is there a technical breakdown of the 5200 and 7800 like the 2600?
-
On 4/25/2021 at 2:38 PM, Mikebloke said:Bit too fantasy for me, but the main thing that goes against it from a realism perspective is cost. There's a reason most games run on 2kb or 4kb roms. A lot of Ataris success is led not from having grandstanding technology but rather doing the best it could cheaply.
Rather than impressive sequel consoles, it would likely have delayed it, and possibly pushed a bigger crash. There is historical examples of how the most graphically capable console on paper does the worst financially.
But what if the atari was doing 2010s level games in 1970s? Well for a start, they would have been the neo geo of their age. Expect $200+ price tags for games. Arcade experience at home? Yes. Affordable to the masses? No. Don't expect those silly quick fire pick up and play games either, it wouldn't be worth it and even if priced comparatively, it could either make or break either side of the market. A "cheap" rip of donkey kong or pac man, common place at the time in reality, would have stolen the market over an arcade true conversion at wildly higher costs.
One of the other issues is my understanding is the 5200 (didn't come out here, so pretty ignorant!) is a consolised computer without a keyboard, similar to the C64GS and the GX4000 for commodore and amstrad. That is, they were unlikely to have any major changes unless the computer line had it planned, and 4 player ports would have been inventive at the time (particularly with split controller use for 4player already in 2600).
7800 of course is/was/could have competed with the NES and master system, and perhaps shared many of their game libraries however under these turn of events atari may have folded as a company by this point or merged with another company. 3 companies in the console market has never really worked either, sega dropped off the radar and Nintendo has only survived through innovation, atari if it did have a 7800 by that point would have still been the weaker neighbour without a huge marketing campaign.
I feel like I've stomped on your parade a lot, but the idea of a 70s neo geo is amusing, and would be curious to play what kind of games would actually come out from that. I'm just not sure that would have led to continued success. Perhaps sega would have taken more of the US market by storm, or perhaps Nintendo would develop an even bigger monopoly by the mid 80s.
I wasn't suggesting 2010-level games in 1970s at all, or making an Atari Neo Geo (equivalent in comparison to Intellivision and Colecovision). I understand why they used 2K and 4K ROMs in the 1970s, and according to this, why they made a lot of the limitations they did. But if you've ever seen alternatehistory.com or any speculative fiction book, many people like asking 'what if?' and trying to posit the ramifications of different choices.
In this instance, knowing the limits of the 2600, I posited, what if the 2600 had used the full 16-pin chip, rather than the 13-pin chip, had 256 bytes rather than 128, and the read/write pin were present (at a minimum), and if possible, more sprites in one line without flicker or 2-color sprites? What would be different with that? What if they'd done 4K or 8K Pac-Man instead of that prototype weird version we got?
So, then going from that, what if the 5200 had been done slightly better? Such as: smaller case without controller storage; lower price; perhaps slightly better graphics/memory and including backward compatibility; better joystick. Make it worth it and make games better enough that people want to buy it rather than pass it over, so that in comparison to Colecovision and Intellivision, the 5200 is the better choice. I saw the 'Realsports' comparison between the 2600 and its competitors, and their Baseball commercial showed how lacking the 2600 was graphically. So, what if the 5200 were slightly better is my question there. My brother has one, but doesn't play it, and when I compared games online, they don't look better enough for the 5200 to be worth it.
As for the 7800, it can come out later, sure, but it most certainly needs tilemaps, better sprites, smooth scrolling horizontally, diagonally, and vertically, the full better sound (not 1977 sound, geez), and a way to get more third party support.
Your post did stomp on my parade, but not as badly as others (RJ, toiletunes, Billy Beans, x=usr(1536)) who didn't even take the time or courtesy to either consider my post seriously rather than snarkily/sarcastically reply, or just scroll past it to avoid being rude. There is a lot of alternate history on alternatehistory.com, Harry Turtledove's novels, the Man in the High Castle, etc, so I do enjoy speculating on what might have been. It's an interesting thought experiment.
-
1
-
-
On 4/27/2021 at 10:03 AM, zzip said:my alternate history would be something like
2600 - same as now
5200 - still based on 400 tech, but fix the design flaws (better joysticks, smaller console, better price), also more competitive and compelling games
7800 - should never have existed. It was too soon. It was a panic move by Atari to what Coleco was doing. This lead to them abandoning the 5200 after less than two years, angering many Atari fans. Instead they should have focused on having the best games possible for 5200, with an eye to replace it with a new console around 1987, give or take. The new console might use an advanced version of 7800 sprite tech, or Amiga chips, or who knows what?
After this it's hard to see how things play out. There's a good chance that the NES as we know it doesn't exist if Atari wasn't distracted from the console market. Remember the reason Nintendo originally offered the NES to Atari was because Nintendo was afraid to compete against Atari. With the chaos after the Tramiel purchase, Nintendo saw their chance.
Interesting. What was Coleco doing? The Adam computer?
My original thought was the 2600 was released in 1977, so a new console in 1981/1982 would be enough time to have a better-designed system to compete better with the Intellivision and Colecovision, both seemed to have some better games in them when comparing to the 2600. that's why I still had the 5200 exist, so that it would keep Atari competitive, hopefully make their games a bit better, maybe easier to program for (ball sprite and missile sprites?), rather than designed for Pong and Combat. Have it be backward compatible without an adapter to the 2600, and you can upgrade without worry, I would think. I've been watching the post-mortems on games like Pitfall and the Atari 2600 itself, which I found out doesn't have a resolution more than 40 pixels, according to that video (all that 'racing the beam' stuff).
The 7800, yeah, it can come out a little later, sure. But it definitely needs better sprites, tilemaps, and better scrolling. Comparing the same games between the NES and 7800 shows the NES looked better at the time, but I don't know if that were due to programmers not knowing how to program to the 7800's strengths, or if it were really that weak in comparison.
The 5200 if it came out in an altered timeline definitely needs to fix the controller issue, size, price, but I think the tech inside it needs a little improvement for it to be worth the upgrade. I just don't know what Atari could have reasonably done to make an upgrade. Resolution? Colors? What would have been reasonable at the time, had Atari made better choices?
As for the 7800, I remember Atari did get the chance to bring the Famicom over, so I think that if they saw that, they would, rather than release the 7800 as-is, try to make it better than or equal to the NES like Sega's Master System. It had more colors, which is good, but it needed tilemaps, smooth scrolling, better sprites, slightly better resolution with more colors at once, and of course, games. Thanks for the meaningful response, I appreciate it.
-
On 4/27/2021 at 10:22 AM, toiletunes said:My turn-
1977: Same as now.
1979: Atari buys intellivision for a buck, releases console with better controllers.
1982: Atari buys Coleco for a buck, releases console with better power supply.
1983: Atari buys Nintendo for a buck, releases console with better zif socket.
1989: Atari buys Sega for a buck, releases console with better capacitors
20XX: Atari buys Microsoft for a buck, releases console with better heat dissipation.
2017: Atari buys kickstarter for a buck, releases console with better netflix for moms.
2021 Atari buys Hotel for a buck, rereleases all in one retro console with self cleaning cart ports, built in flat panel CRT, self centering true 64 bit controllers, and a free quadricorn.
Or, if you're going to be a smart-aleck, you could just skip past the post if you had nothing useful to contribute. I'm writing a book, which I take seriously.
-
On 4/25/2021 at 7:00 PM, RJ said:Wow, I wish I had your free time.
No, you don't. I have 3 jobs, I have little free time. I'm trying to publish a book in addition to try to enable me to drop one of those 3.
-
On 4/26/2021 at 7:48 PM, x=usr(1536) said:Nope, more like the saddest version of ASSTR.
<sarcasm>Gee, thanks. So helpful.</sarcasm>
I am honestly trying to write a story, including Atari in it that does a little better. I would appreciate a little better consideration, as I'm going to try to add this into a publish book.
-
1
-
-
Hi folks,
I'm writing up an alternate history timeline and I wanted to do a slightly different Atari 2600, 5200, and 7800 history, and wanted to run it by everyone to see if the numbers make sense, and to figure out what the changes would mean for Atari gamewise.
So here goes:
1977: Atari VCS released. Changes:
-6502 chip with 16 rather than 13 pins
-read/write pin is present, allowing in-cart RAM expansion, and with bank switching, up to 512KB ROM, 32KB RAM
-256 bytes (not 128) of RAM (or 512?)
-2 colors per sprite
-4 sprites per scanline without flicker
-256 colors, but 8 per scanline
-Space Invaders looks like the homebrew Space Invaders Arcade; Pac-Man looks like Pac-Man 4K; Donkey Kong looks like the homebrew version. No ET, but there are some crappy games that don't help the 2600, but no bottom-out crash.
1982: Atari 5200 released. Changes:
-Atari VCS now the 2600, and re-released in the Atari Jr form factor at $99
-Priced at $199
-Atari play tests games to make sure they are of higher quality
-320x192 8 color resolution, 256x192 16 color
-3 color sprites at 4 per scanline
-256 colors, 16 per scanline
-16KB RAM
-built-in 2600 compatibility
-controller's joystick is better designed and self-centering, so all games can be played as expected
-4 ports with several 4-player games to show off cooperative gaming, such as a 'super pacman' with 4 pacmen, 'monkey business,' a Donkey-Kong-like game with 4 player gorillas saving their gorilla father, 4 player 'combat' with either 'free for all' or teams.
-Pitfall looks about like the 8-bit computer version (if possible)
1986: Atari 7800 released. Changes:
-tile based, having seen the NES and played a few games, realizing this is the future
-$169 vs. the $180 for NES
-European gamepad released worldwide with an optional joystick for an arcade experience
-256×240 resolution or 320x200 resolution
-1, 4, 12 colors per sprite; 30 per scanline without background, 16 with background at 4 colors, 8 with 12 colors each. 8x8 or 8x16 sprites
-coarse and smooth horizontal, diagonal, and vertical scrolling feature
-tilemap playfield with 8x8 tiles and tile flipping
-4 square wave channels, 1 noise channel, 1 triangle wave channel, 1 DPCM channel
-2600 backward compatibility (or 5200, or both)
-Atari and SEGA successfully sue and get Nintendo's exclusivity contracts nullified, and third parties do port games to the Master System and 7800, such as Megaman, Castlevania, Contra, etc.
-NES is released as before and releases practically the same games as before, but Atari does release side-scrollers, RPGs, shooters, etc. to compete, leading to over 250 games for the Atari 7800.
What kinds of games could we have gotten from these versions of the systems? Are these specs reasonable for the time and for an Atari that did better financially? Do any numbers not work technically and need to change?
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
-
I have a Sears Telegames: SN 55207T
I have a non-working one at my parents' house, and an Atari Jr in the car.
-
What's the difference between harmony and harmony encore?
-
15 hours ago, Keatah said:There's huge potential for ARM games to bring arcade realism to the VCS. It's been done & demonstrated several times already.
Totally agree with seeing packages in the mail and opening them up to explore what's inside. Fun even if you know what's coming. But still not as fun as trekking to Sears, K-Mart, or Venture, or TurnStyle. Your typical late 70's & early 80's department stores. The whole ritual of getting a new game on the weekend started with advanced planning in the beginning of the week or mid-week. We had to decide what we wanted, often picked 10 or 15 games, and hoped the store had 1 or 2 of them. It usually began by illustrating how good we were and that we deserved a prize or some toys. On Saturday or Sunday we would get in the car and go "cruising" through town, parking in the store lot, getting out of the car, walking to the door. Opening it up and getting a whiff of VOCs and "store smell". Finding the videogame section. Was usually in the same place, so it was like home more or less. Scanning the boxes and titles for what we saw on TV and anything new that we might have missed. Then convincing the parental units to get it.
Then we had to stand in the checkout like for what seemed like hours. Some of us were lucky and could bring our red LED Mattel games to pass the time. Once checked out, we exited the store, and spent 20 MORE minutes trying to find the car that was parked anywhere in a 50,000 acre lot. Sometimes we would get McDonalds on the way home or some other fat-ass-making fast food. The anticipation of new games, new cartridges, new virtual adventures building microsecond upon microsecond. Sometimes we'd even read the instructions while stuck in traffic - inhaling the lead laced exhaust of "regular" gas from de-tuned beaters and 100's of idling cars that took what seemed like hours to move one city block. Eventually we got home. Raced to the living room. Closed the drapes to set the mood and plugged in. Fun times all afternoon and evening! Especially when served Swanson's frozen dinners in those Aluminum trays that always seems to allow some of the "ingredients" to spill over and mix together.
There were bonus days when we skipped the department store and detoured to the computer store. And even the regular arcade since they were pretty close. Or even Toys'R'Us to get model rockets and supplies. Or SlotCar setups from AFX, Tycho, or Aurora.
Yes folks. Sometimes it really was an all-day affair to get new cartridges. But it was so different and fun! Not like the grind of today. It's an experience I've managed to only partly recapture. Many things are different today, or even missing.
But sometimes this cost us. We had to endure that 60's carhop crap they'd play on the radio. Or worse, that narrowband Lo-Fi wartime stuff. God forbid if it was that roaring 20's speakeasy shit. So it was a relief to hear 70's love songs when they played them.
For me it was going to Zayers to see the new Atari games as a kid. Oh those were the days.
-
1
-
-
I've gotten back into Atari recently but I haven't gotten super obsessed. I have gotten into it more in the sense of wanting homebrew, hacked, and custom carts, and I'm considering hacking a console for better video and audio though. While the old games are great for nostalgia, I would like the newer versions for the sake of a more arcade experience, or at least as arcade as the 2600 gets
-
2
-
-
Atari 2600
Space Invaders - 20 minutes with father-in-law
Space Invaders Arcade - 5 m
Space Invaders Deluxe - 5 m
Pac-Man - 10 minutes
-
5
-
-
My father-in-law really enjoyed playing space invaders back in the day, and I used the original 2600 game with him while we were having a family dinner beforehand. But I was thinking to get Space Invaders Deluxe on a cartridge for him, if the author gives permission to do so. Good idea?
-
4 hours ago, KaeruYojimbo said:And if you just want to fill the sky with bullets, give Spider Fighter a try.
I guess if the original game was limited, fine, but a version with unlimited fire and a bigger score field for more points would be great for the sake of getting high scores. We got up to 1500 points on the original game before dinner.
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Alternate Atari History
in Atari General
Posted
You're probably right about that. Nintendo was great at making new ideas, and Atari at least, was living on arcade ports far too long. That's why I included something in the speculation on them breaking Nintendo's exclusivity contracts. Perhaps porting any Nintendo game to any Atari system would be a licensing deal that could have happened. If the 7800 had better tile support, better scrolling, better audio, and could handle more colors at higher resolutions (a lot of asking), it could've competed better.
If Sega had had a stronger mascot earlier, I think their 8-bit system might've fared better, along with a few big franchises. Alex the Kidd never really did much for me. It seemed like a generic platformer to me without innovation, but I'll give it a try some time.