[TRS-80 Model 2...any games?]

The Model II archive has some TRSDOS games:

https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Games

 

The Xenix prebuild image also has some games but could be tough to load on a real machine.

 

https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/700-3039 - XENIX Multi-User Operating System/v03.03.00/HD_Images

 

https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games

Wheel of Fortune (wof) is pretty good.

[SRA Computer Discovery manual]

It turns out, executing the programs is easy. One of the .DSK files auto-boots into a menu.

[SRA Computer Discovery manual]

I'm trying to find the PDF of the manual/book for "SRA Computer Discovery."

 

Resources I've already found online:

• A TRS-80.com documents torrent at: http://akhara.com/trs-80/docs/
  • I've unpacked this, don't find the manual.
• TOSEC mention of the manual/workbook: https://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/publications/books/  
  • "TOSEC: Computer Discovery – Junior High (1981)(Science Research Associates)"
  • TOSEC has the first disk, but not the manual
• Text version of a product announcement: https://www.microcomputing.us/mc2-0501/getting-started-with-computer-discovery.html
• Two copies of the diskette/software: https://www.willus.com/trs80/?q=computer+discovery

 

Am I missing something easy?

 

Alternatively: the disk is full of /OBJ files. I can boot an emulated TRS-80 Model III and see the files on the disk. How does one run /OBJ files?

 

 

 

[Model II SCRIPSIT spelling and hyphenation dictionary found! *maybe*]

eBay auction

 

I would check that the disk is included before purchasing. But if someone with archive ability is interested, this has been a missing link in the Model II software chain for a while.

[TRS-80 Model II BASIC is really nice!]

Interesting. I came from Commodore 64 BASIC v2.0. I like the Model II so that's what I play with in emulation.

 

> The CP/M versions went even beyond that.

 

Fair enough! What were some of the neat things in CP/M BASIC?

 

[TRS-80 Model II BASIC is really nice!]

I've been playing around with Model II BASIC and graphics basic (BASICG) over the last few days. This BASIC has some REALLY nice business-oriented features.

 

Error processing is pretty fancy for a 1980-era BASIC! When an error hits, you can . . .

  * Trap it with ON ERROR GOTO
  * Get the line number and error code using ERL and ERR
  * Deal with the problem programmatically and RESUME or RESUME <line number>
  * Test your error handling code by triggering error conditions using ERROR!

All together, this would make it possible to write professional applications in BASIC, since programs could recover gracefully from errors.

 

Other nice stuff:
  * Print Using has a really nice implementation
  * Print@ is incredibly useful - looking back, I cringe to think how I lived without it
  * Field-oriented file I/O
  * Statements to store/save numeric values directly without translating to/from strings:
      MKI$/VCI save integers to/read from strings
      MKS$/VCS for single-precsion values
      MKD$/VCD for double-precision values
  * Solid hires graphics board support: shape-drawing, arc, line, and fill functions almost tailor-made for business graphics
 
One feature that puzzles me: 40 column mode, on a TRS-80 Model II? It almost feels like a mistake. Did anyone ever use this? Why?

 

But overall I am impressed. This BASIC feels smooth and slick, especially for something copyright 1980.

 

[Some type-in programs for TRS Model I/II/III]

Here are some business chart demos from the TRS-80 Computer Graphics Operations Manual. Both require a Model II with a hires graphics board. trs80gp works also.

 

Please run these using BASICG; regular BASIC doesn't have the additional commands to support hires graphics.

 

M2 BASICG sample pecanpie chart.txt M2 BASICG sample threedee demo.txt

[TRS-80 diskette transfer rate?]

I wanted to do some testing, so here's results from WinVICE 3.6.1, PCem 17, and trs80gp 2.4.8. All of this is on emulators, running on interpreted BASIC.

 

Disk Read Speed Benchmarks
Disk Size	Emulator reported time for 100KB [seconds]	Actual time for 100KB [minutes:seconds]	Actual time for 100KB [seconds]	Speed [KBps]	System notes
492KB	184	3:07	187	0.5	TRS-DOS 2.0a on a TRS-80 Model II
1.25MB	125	2:10	130	0.8	TRSDOS-II 4.4 on a TRS-80 Model 12
170KB	194	4:42	282	0.4	1541 on Commodore 64, Basic v2.0
350KB	108	2:12	132	0.8	1571 on NTSC Commodore 128, Basic v7.0
800KB	98	1:45	105	1.0	1581 on a NTSC Commodore 128, Basic v7.0
360KB	55	0:55	55	1.8	IBM PC 8088 4.77 MHz, BASIC

 

Some things I tried that didn't affect results much:

Change disk motor stepping time on a TRS-80 Model 12

Use the Microsoft BASIC compiler BASCOM on a TRS-80 Model II/12

Use COMAL on the commodore 64 - made things slightly slower

 

I've included my BASIC source code in case anyone wants to try this on real hardware.

 

C64 basic create file.txt c64 basic read file.txt IBM PC GWBasic create file.txt IBM PC GWBasic read file.txt TRS80 Model II Basic interpreter read file.txt TRS80 Model II Basic compiler read file.txt TRS80 Model II Basic interpreter create file.txt

[TRS-80 diskette transfer rate?]

Thank you! It's more satisfying my curiosity. No need for intense research.

 

A baud rate is bits per second. Divide by 8 to get bytes per second. 1500 baud is about 188 bytes per second, or 0.183 KB/s.

 

And yes, the commodore 1541 was SLOW. It was common to wait a minute or two for a program to load. Calling it twice as fast as Model III cassette sounds about right!

 

Fast loaders helped, but that was a workaround most other systems didn't need.

[TRS-80 diskette transfer rate?]

How fast were TRS-80 Model I and Model II disks when loading data?

 

For comparison, a stock Commodore 1541 was about 0.4 kilobytes per second (KB/s).

 

 

 

 

[BYTE sieve, some results]

I spend a fun couple of days running the BYTE sieve benchmark on emulated computers, with SIZE=2048. The results chart is attached.

Some interesting notes:
The Model II was a very fast computer for its time.
Tandy's BASIC compiler was okay but not amazing. Microsoft's BASIC compiler did pretty darn well.
The Model 4 is a decent speed up over the Model II. I'm a little surprised, since the Model II had some very solid engineering and fast support chips. But the difference is noticeable even in general use.
The IBM PC 5150 was very fast for what it was designed to do: business calculations using text applications.
COMAL 2.0 was a decent speed-up for a C64. Too bad it wasn't more popular!

 

Sieve.bas

[So-Called Lazy Spectrum Ports on the MSX]

Shifting from software-driven graphics to sprite hardware would be non-trivial. Depending on the game, you'd need to add delays to account for the time usually spent drawing on-screen, change the code to detect collisions, possibly rethink how the background was drawn/updated, and so on.

 

Assembly language, and most BASICs at the time, didn't have a lot of features to make code modular. So it would take a fair amount of work to go through and find every place in the code that needed changing for sprites.

 

Some companies (like EPYX) did make games that were well-regarded on multiple platforms. It's probably a budget/market size thing.

[Tandy SCRIPSIT 16 unlocked?]

Tandy released a version of SCRIPSIT for XENIX multiuser. The disks have been archived, but so far as I know nobody archived the manual. Reviewers online say they played with the program a bit but weren't able to do much. That was my experience too.

 

An eBay auction ($85) has a SCRIPSIT 16 upgrade disk and hotkey reference sheets.

 

For those who want to play around with SCRIPSIT 16, we now have some hints at how it works:

<ESC> H opens the help menu. To leave help, hit <CTRL C>

 

<ESC> H <ENTER> shows a list of help topics, but either <CTRL C> or <ENTER> seems to lock up the system. I've attached the (first?) screen of help topics so people spend less time rebooting.

 

<ESC> H DEFINE <ENTER> explains how the define mode works.

 

<ESC> _ starts underline. <CTRL U> _  stops underline.

 

<CTRL V> shows control characters/style changes on screen. <CTRL U> <CTRL V> stops that.

 

I've enclosed the photos of the sheets from the auction, and the list of help topics from SCRIPSIT 16.

 

And of course, if the program is already figured out, or the manual is available online, I'd love to know!

 

[C64 wanted]

Congratulations!

[Gaming on iMac G3?]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:22 PM, youxia said:

I'm a hardcore PC user, have never had an Apple product and don't intend to get any new ones....but I guess G3 is retro enough (and CRT enough) to slip under my anti-Apple radar.

 

I can pick one up now for ~70E  and am wondering if it's a good idea.

If you don't already have mac-specific games or applications you want to use, I wouldn't do it. OS 9 is pretty and responsive, but also crashy. OS X on a G3? You'll need lots of patience.

If someone decides to do this anyway, check out text-to-speech. The Mac has some fun voices in either OS.

 

On 1/25/2022 at 6:26 PM, bluejay said:

iMacs run PowerPC CPUs, so it only natively supports PowerPC software. 68k software support is done through emulation, but I found that the Apple supplied emulator doesn’t work all that well. You wouldn’t want to use this for 68k software.

I've heard this a couple of places. What doesn't work well under emulation?

[My new TRS-80 Coco 2 upgrade and modding blog]

Congratulations. Very cool!

[TRS80 model 1 best games]

That looks like a fun Saturday!

[Must have C128 mods?]

10 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

There is also The Servant, which I have no clue what it does but I got a copy on a dead 128 board

http://www.stardates.org/forum/C128/functionroms/Servantmanual.pdf

 

It looks like a combination menu system/DOS wedge/directly listing improver, plus some other stuff.

[Buyers Perspective: Why should I buy the Tandy RadioShack 80]

I swear, you're the most combative customer I've ever had. We're selling as many of these as we can make. Computers are the *future*. This is the Next Big Thing - bigger than CB radio. It's happening and it's now. Don't miss out. Buy today!

[Wanted: Interesting Auctions]

TRS-80 Model II system in fantastic shape. Includes software, manuals, TWO TRS-80 printers, disk drive expansion unit . . . someone evidently hit a bonanza at an estate sale!

 

Must pickup in Tennessee. $1250 buy it now, which gives me a small heart attack.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165099287548?hash=item2670af33fc:g:gK8AAOSwyElhVL-I

[Some type-in programs for TRS Model I/II/III]

A fun/simple version of Lunar Lander by John Beringer, from 80 Micro June 1981.

 

 

 

M1L2 Lunar Lander.txt

[Tandy Deskmate - was it really useful?]

Tandy Deskmate has an interesting history. I like the text-based version that came with the Tandy 1000. Deskmate 3 was apparently much more popular, with a graphical interface, upgraded applications, and the ability to host other programs.

Do/did people really use Deskmate? Or was it mostly a bullet point to drive sales?

[Bargain shopping for computers at Radio Shack]

From what I hear, Tandy Radio Shack (TRS) had bargaining room when people started to actually spend money.

 

My neighbor arranged some kind of bundle deal around 1984, for a TRS-80 Model IV, a shelf full of brown-binder software, Orchestra-90, a Realistic stereo amplifier with speakers, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff. He literally went from "no computer" to "complete super-deluxe setup" overnight! I have a hunch he walked into a store, said he was willing to spend about $2500, and started bargaining from there.

 

For people who had experience back in the day, did you ever bargain for a good deal on computers/peripherals at Radio Shack? Did they give discounts for bundles?

[Model I typing speed]

@GeorgePhillips thanks for the real-life test. It's not a big problem, I mostly paste code in from a Windows text editor.

[Model I typing speed]

I think the question is, do you see the same thing on your Model I? Do you have to tap keys for "RUN" much slower than "RU" when repeated?

 

Also, congrats on having a real Model I!