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OrionB

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Posts posted by OrionB

  2. Posted

    First impressions about the Atari 12 game unit:

     

    The packaging is definitely subpar, so I'm not surprised that a lot of people are getting damaged units. I'd advise anyone getting one of these to buy from a store if possible. That said, mine (from Best Buy via UPS) was immaculate. Not a blemish as far as I can see.

     

    The unit itself is really good looking in my opinion. All the artwork looks great, and even the control panel looks much better in person than it does in the pictures. The size with the riser is about the same as a cabaret cabinet. The control panel is a good height for me (5' 10") and the screen is in a good position for playing games. The viewing angles on mine are excellent so Bill's report that his are bad makes me think there's probably a panel lottery going on.

     

    Another difference from other reports: My unit is way too loud, even on the quieter setting. I haven't even tried it in the louder setting because it was already so loud. I will probably have to play with the sound off unless I can wire in a real volume control, which is a real bummer.

     

    The spinner is as bad as advertised. I loosened up some of the screws which helped a bit, but it's really cheap feeling and doesn't spin easily at all. That said, Tempest is (surprisingly) perfectly playable with it -- Major Havoc, not so much.

     

    My A button is just a little bit sticky; still perfectly playable but annoying. Tomorrow I will see if it's something I can fix.

     

    The in-game instructions on how to get back to the menu are wrong in every game except Quantum. Their solution to this was to throw a sticker in the box with the correct instructions, and you're supposed to apply it to the control panel. This is just shameful in my opinion, and speaks to these units being rushed to market before they were ready.

     

    The instructions also neglect to tell you how to actually start any of the games, and as mentioned it isn't consistent between games. You pretty much have to just mash buttons to figure it out.

     

    The emulation seems decent as far as I've seen so far. The vector graphics don't have any anti-aliasing applied so it's a bit of a mixed bag. Lunar Lander in particular looks pretty bad; the other vector games are okay but not great. There doesn't seem to be any input lag but all in-game sounds are delayed by maybe 150 ms -- livable but annoying.

     

    Of the games I've tried so far, Asteroids, Centipede, Crystal Castles, Liberator, Missile Command, Tempest are all very playable.

    Lunar Lander really needs an analog thrust control (not sure why they didn't use the spinner or trackball).

    Major Havoc needs a more responsive spinner (there is an alternate control set which uses the buttons but I haven't tried it).

    Quantum seems like the trackball isn't responsive enough, though I've never seen this game in the wild so I don't know what it's supposed to feel like.

    I haven't tried Asteroids Deluxe, Gravitar, or Millipede yet, but I wouldn't anticipate any problems with those.

     

    Overall, I'm happy with mine so far, but I had set my expectations very low. I would recommend these units only with strong caveats about the likelihood of running into problems. I really, really wish they had put another $100 into these.

    • Like 2

  3. Posted

    tell me, when was the last time you ran out to buy an AUO LCD monitor for a personal or professional application? When was the first?

     

    Everything I've read on them is that they are a budget Taiwanese panel supplier, and the products are exactly what you'd expect. The kind of panels you might put in a point of sale kiosk at a store, but not one you'd buy for home, and certainly not for gaming. There are a few TV manufacturers who started using them and every review I read noted that while the contrast ratios were decent, they suffered the most in viewing angle and input lag, compared to their name-brand competitors.

    Now you're just embarrassing yourself. You obviously have no clue how this works. You compare AUO to "name-brand competitors" but AUO is a "name-brand" in this space. AUO is one of the five largest LCD manufacturers in the world, and their panels live in many different brands of consumer TVs, laptops, monitors, phones -- they have supplied, among many others, Apple, Dell, HP, Sony, Samsung, Vizio. You may very well have an AUO panel in your house right now and you would have no way of knowing without opening up the device and looking at the panel itself.

     

    And yes, I have very little doubt you found some cherry picked examples of cases where AUO panels were worse than the alternatives, but I could cherry pick other examples where the AUO panel was better than the alternatives (e.g. this comparison of three panels used in the same Samsung TV, where the AUO panel was measured to have better contrast ratio, viewing angle, and input lag compared to the Samsung and Sharp panels).

     

    The point is the same as I said before. You have not even the smallest shred of evidence that this panel is of poor quality, but you insist on saying that it is, for no reason other than that everything that makes its way into these cabinets must be bad.

    • Like 3

  4. Posted

    if that is the model they are using, it is a slightly better version of the one I linked to above. Still not a good panel, but slightly better than the older version of the same panel.

    The datasheets of these panels show that the newer version is far better in a variety of metrics including, as most relevant here, viewing angles and response time. Not that such data would matter to you; Arcade1Up used this panel in their cabinets and therefore it is garbage, right?

  5. Posted

     

    This is the model of LCD panel they are using:

     

    http://www.panelook.com/M170EG01%20V9_AUO_17.0_LCM_overview_938.html

     

    AS for the question of when these were made (there was some confusion over it being 2005 or 2013), on the left side about 1/2 way down it lists the following:

     

    M170EG01 V9 Production State
    CS >> MP >> LTB >> LTS 2005,Q1 2005,Q2 -- --

     

     

    Again, I have no idea where you got this idea. The part number is clearly visible in several of the teardown videos; e.g. here. It's an M170ETN01.1 which is from 2013 and is a significantly better panel than the one you linked.

    • Like 1

  7. Posted

    I can't be bothered to sit through an hour long video -- is there a source for the claim that these panels are from 2005? The datasheet says this model is from 2013.

     

    The Panelook entry also says this panel was introduced in 2013, and that it is still in production.

     

    Also, just to add -- it is 100% unreasonable to expect anything but a TN panel for a product at this price point. TN should be acceptable for this application because almost everyone plays these games straight on.

  8. Posted

    Back on topic, I've done quite a bit of research on these cabinets since I like the look of them as a conversation piece, and I thought I'd share my notes below, in case anyone finds them helpful. Much of this information came from this thread, and thanks to those who have linked to videos etc.

     

    The bottom line for me is that I'm on the fence about whether to get one, since the "cons" list is pretty significant. I'd be much happier if they'd put another $100 into these to make them less cheap (but I understand why they didn't).

     

    Pros:
    1. Artwork is a faithful recreation of the originals. In cases where they had to make changes because of available space, the changes have been done tastefully.
    2. The cabinet is light enough that I can actually move it myself without much difficulty, when needed.
    3. Games appear to be faithfully emulated. No NES-on-a-chip here.
    4. The control layout of the primary game of each cabinet is (mostly) faithfully recreated. Controls are well calibrated for the primary game from what I can tell (e.g. the Centipede cabinet's trackball looks like it works well for Centipede/Millipede).
    5. By far this is the cheapest solution available for a turnkey arcade cabinet that looks the part and doesn't have the maintenance baggage of a vintage cabinet.
    Unknown:
    1. The monitor is a 5:4 1280x1024 TN panel. TN panels can have pretty bad viewing angles, and this is particularly concerning for the cabinets that have a vertical monitor since the long axis often has a very bad viewing angle in one direction. Won't really know until I can see one in person.
    2. I can't tell how good the scaler is. Hopefully no visible scaling artifacts, and haven't seen any in the available videos, but can't tell for certain. Above all else I hope they didn't stretch the native 4:3 graphics to fit the 5:4 display.
    3. Usually with emulated arcade games you have to either change the speed the game runs to match the display refresh rate, or the graphics will show tearing artifacts. I don't like either of those options so I have a G-Sync monitor on my DIY cabinet. Could be okay though; won't know until I can play one.
    4. We don't know how durable the controls are. We know that they aren't brand name controls so who knows.
    5. We don't know how durable the cabinet itself is. I've had some furniture with this type of construction that has been rock solid through several moves, and other pieces that fell apart if you looked at them wrong.
    Cons:
    1. The artwork appears to not be very durable, particularly on the control panel. Arcade1Up claims the issues with that YouTube guy's Centipede cabinet was a manufacturing defect, but I'm skeptical. We shall see when more of these are in the wild.
    2. Controls appear to not be well calibrated for most of the non-primary games. The Defender layout is a train wreck, the spinner isn't right for either Tempest or Major Havoc, and it looks like Crystal Castles is just unplayable. I suspect the spinner may be salvagable by gluing some weights inside, but the trackball feel for Centipede/Millipede is much different than for Missile Command or Crystal Castles, and there's really nothing to be done about that.
    3. None of the settings are accessible. This might have partially mitigated the above point if you could adjust the spinner/trackball sensitivity in each game, but no. Hopefully you like the default settings for number of lives, difficulty, etc.
    4. The cabinet is small enough that multi-player games are likely to be unconfortable, particularly for three players or if playing a long time.
    5. The cabinet is very small so a separate riser is required if you want to play these games standing up as God intended.
    6. The joysticks and buttons are microswitch, and some of the games originally had leaf switch controls. (Some people prefer microswitch controls but I find them too noisy personally.)
    7. Some of the panels used in the construction are very thin. In particular the bottom front panel seems like it would be prone to breakage by kicks and bumps if you don't use the riser.
    8. The number of games in each cabinet is pretty limited (except maybe in the Atari deluxe cabinet), so you have to have multiple if you want, say, Pac-Man AND Galaga.
    9. The cabinet itself is a standard design which doesn't replicate the distinctive cabinet of each of the games.
    10. There is no way to emulate scanlines, if you like that look.
    • Like 4

  10. Posted

    I don't feel my opinion is more valid than others. Not at all. But I've been asked/told more than once in this thread "ok dude we get it you don't like this, why are you still posting here/why does the board allow this stuff?"

     

    Whereas, neither I, nor anyone else who has taken a negative or skeptical opinion of these has even once suggested that positive opinions weren't welcome or shouldn't be posted here. Just the opposite.

     

    What I have done, is post my opinion in a forthright manner, and made logical, reasoned deductions of what is on offer with this product based on video evidence of their quality and common knowledge of what these products cost to make - as most hobbyists here understand.

     

    I say this with respect, because a lot of what you say comes across as pretty reasonable, but I don't think you are fairly characterizing your own behavior in this thread. When you say things like

     

    And I think, at least in some cases here, the answer is that they just can't resist something that looks cool, regardless on how overpriced or lacking in quality it might be.

    The target market for these is people who have disposable income, no impulse control, and who lack the knowledge to understand they are getting taken.

    My issue is with the people who are willfully ignoring the complaints and flaws with these things, and touting them as a "great value", when they are clearly not.

     

    you are well past the line of "logical, reasoned deductions" and firmly in the realm of "insulting people who have a different opinion." The fact that some people have decided that these products, which are not perfect, have $300 of value for them doesn't necessarily mean that they have no impulse control, or that they are ignorant, or that they are deluding themselves. It may mean only that they have come to different conclusions than you did, given the same information. Do you actually not accept that reasonable people can disagree about these things? Because these are not the statements of someone who does.

    • Like 3

  11. Posted

     

    Because the licenses for two of those three sources carry a very strict non-commercial/prohibition clause, and the third is tightly-guarded proprietary and commercial source that the rights holder would be outright stupid to license to a competitor. (The Vavasour-derived code also doesn't cover at least 4 of the drivers/boards presented in the lineup as indicated/demonstrated by Tastemakers.)

     

    Please just stop. Your idea that there is *no* emulator for these games other than MAME is completely absurd. But even if they are using a MAME-derived emulator, MAME's license does, in fact, allow commercial use, and has since 2016.

    • Like 2

  16. Posted

    Well, OK, that could explain things.  So by the "GCC" version, you mean there is no "DT" icons, and the player is not square?  If that is the case, that your game has the GCC player graphics shown here, then I'd say we have found another variation besides the no-voice Quadrun...

    911500[/snapback]

    Yeah, I just looked and I definitely have the GCC version.

  17. Posted

    Hmm.. I wonder what the disconnect here is.  The Millipede I have played on the FB2 does not look like the GCC version, and has absolutely no screen rolling.  It's rock solid.

     

    Is there another Mllipede, not in the "Arcade Favorites" section, that I am missing?

    911496[/snapback]

     

    I don't think so; that's where the GCC version is on my unit. I guess some units have the broken GCC version and some have the working Atari version? If so, I'll have to go return mine and hope to get another one with a working Millipede. I was willing to forgive the broken Quadrun sound and a lot of the problems with the new games, but I'm pretty unhappy about not being able to play Millipede.

  18. Posted

    - the instructions claim that the version of Millipede was an 'alternate version' - GCC version I presume.  Unfortunately, it's just the released version (which I already have on cart)

     

    I've seen someone else say this, but on my unit the title screen on Millipede is the one (with the mushroom) from the GCC version described here. I can't tell if it has the other differences in the GCC version, because the screen rolls continuously, making the game unplayable. I know I'm not the only one with this problem. Didn't anyone test this??

  19. Posted

    No, I only have one TV. I can't get Millipede to work. It might be my tv, because

    it still has dials for channel changers. The FB2 goes through an rf modulator.

     

    Chris

    910664[/snapback]

    Millipede rolls continuously on my TV, which is ~10 years old. Caverns of Mars also rolls occasionally, but is still mostly playable. I haven't seen rolling on other games (though Yars' Return and Space War have such unstable pictures that they are also unplayable, and Asteroids Deluxe is pretty bad too).

     

    I don't have another TV, unfortunately, so I guess I just don't get to play Millipede.

  20. Posted

    Feedback is questionable, especially considering the content of those -- more of the usual "Buyer tried to scam me" responses.

    910906[/snapback]

    Really? Six negative feedbacks vs. >300 positive, and that's questionable? This is exactly why I don't like ebay -- I hate the feedback game.

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