Mazzspeed

Has anyone actually watched the series of video's done by CuriousMarc where they actually restore a non functional Xerox Alto? It's about a 16 part series and very fascinating.

Well that's a valid point. If you're worried about soldering than the best solution is the one that's plug and play. The only real concern is compatibility issues due to the use of the W65C816 CPU

Thank you my Friend.

For what it's worth, I've been watching countless video's on the Ultimate 1MB and that's the device I'd be going for. It's got all the memory you're ever likely to need on an 8bit machine, it has a RTC and IMO built in SpartaDOS is a real selling point - Not to mention the Ultimate 1MB's compatibility with other devices like Side 2/3 and Sophia.

May I ask, what's the benefit to the W65C816 CPU over the 6502 in real life usage?

Hey Bob! Currently living Down Under in Australia, just got out of about three months of forced Coronavirus lockdown - Wasn't so bad when I had my retro machine's to play with and so many people to communicate with via BBS's. Thanks for the welcome.

Just thought I'd create a quick post introducing myself. Possibly like many here I'm a 'middle aged' retro computing enthusiast that grew up in the 8bit era. Right now I mainly own Commodore machines, with my pristine C64 Breadbin taking pride of place with a 1541 Ultimate II+ connected to a 500GB hard drive for 1541 emulation (yes, I had it in the drawer and filled up my 16GB USB thumb drive so I thought why not), I have the 16MB REU enabled, I run a modified version of JiffyDOS 6.01, I have an SD2IEC that I use as a mass storage device with everything organized into separate partitions and directories, I use the emulated SID's on the 1541 Ultimate II+ as they're simply easier to configure (and TBH I can't notice any difference in sound quality). The machine connects to a 1084S via separate chroma and luma with a brand new flyback and HOT replaced by myself (I'm also right into electronics), while I was at it I replaced any suspect caps. I have a matching 1541, also in pristine condition and also running JiffyDOS - Although I hardly ever use floppies anymore. I also have a 1351 mouse for the odd GEOS session. I love connecting to BBS's via the Ethernet interface on the 1541 UII+, there's some great communities out there! One of the BBS's I frequent is crazy busy. I like games, but games are just one thing you can do with a computer - Even an 8bit one. I used to own an Atari 600XL in the 80s, it was brand new sealed in the box and I only ever turned it on once - My uncle used to work as a salesperson at an electronics retailer and when they couldn't sell it he gave it to me. Sadly (yes, shoot me), back then there wasn't much you could do on a 16KB 600XL so it literally lived under my bed until I moved out of my parents place and my Father threw it out...Brand new...In the box... [Sob] I hope to get another 600XL soon and upgrade the memory, fit an Ultimate 1MB and perhaps a Sophia 2 - But prices are crazy in this part of the world. I'm in no rush, I'll take my time and wait for the right A8 to appear... I love Flash Jazz Cat's video's, not only is he talented, but he's hilarious! I really enjoy his cussing and dry sense of humor. I'm in no way biased, I believe all 8bit machines have their pro's and con's and if I had my way I'd own them all! Sadly, with the price of retro hardware now I can't see that happening.

Good tips! Cheers my Friend.

I was planning on reading the manual in relation to the ROMs, I missed the part regarding the ./configure script in the docs where the script isn't present as I was just expecting it to be there. As soon as I've finished my work for the day I'll read the manual in relation to the ROMs. It was no more than a comment in passing.

Hell, now I don't know what I downloaded, I just know it was off the GitHub page. Having said that, I updated autoconf, ran autogen.sh, then ran ./configure > make > make install and I believe the software is installed as when I enter atari800 in a terminal window the window goes blank - So something is running. If I hit ctrl+c I get a number of errors in the window, it looks like the emulator is looking for ROM's. I'll see if I can find the needed ROMS, place them where needed and see if I can get this running...

I downloaded the tarball, there wasn't a configure script there. I'll try autoconf.

It still doesn't impress me as much as the Pi Zero being connected to the Tube port of a BBC Micro, even as a retro PC the machine was literally made for it and they're stupid fast using the Pi as a co processor.

I don't see any piss fight. I actually thought discussion was quite civil and engaging.

Also, the BIOS of the original IBM PC was no more than a boot loader and associated libraries. I'm not too sure about the ST, but the Amiga's Kickstart was essentially the same thing. Furthermore, big box Amiga's had expansion buses and Zorro slots (even ISA and PCI slots in some instances) just like the PC. The PC won by virtue of its open archatecture and the fact that Commodore and Atari's management simply made poor decisions. If it wasn't for the clones, chances are the PC would have died out like everything else.

Wheels came along later and there was a GEOS 128 build. Honestly? I always preferred the CLI, especially with JiffyDOS. Having said that, I sort of moved away from tech in the early 90s - I was too busy partying. EDIT: Try repairing a 128...Oh my Gawd it's complicated compared to the A8 and C64 designs.

I honestly don't think there was a lot of 128 native software released. I was always intrigued by the Z80 compatibility, but the floppy drive issues and the need for 'Commodore' CP/M sort of stuffed that up. Having said that, I do like the 128 and love 'native' 80 columns.

It's all about clock cycles needed to perform an instruction, it's why the Z80 at 3mhz wasn't necessarily faster than a 6502 at 1 - 1.7mhz. Really, the PC was a remarkably simple design with little innovation, probably a mild step up from the S100 bus design - It was the tech involved in the cards that made it powerful in the end, and that was well after CGA, CGA sucked. Also, don't forget, many 8 bit machines were hobbyist machines and not really 'locked down' designs, the Commodore 64 Programmers Reference Manual came with a complete schematic of the machine. My dream machine is an IMSAI 8080...Talk about $$. Because the same engineers built the Amiga. It's all about the engineers, not Atari themselves. Commodore had some great engineers after Tramiel left, designing the C128 and the ill fated C65 - Which should have been the replacement for the C64 like the IIGS should have been the replacement for the IIe as opposed to the Macintosh. The IIGS was, IMO, vastly better than the locked down Macintosh and the 128 wasn't really a C64 successor - Everyone I know that owned a C128 used it in C64 mode, literally 'everyone'.

The irony is, at the time of the IBM PC's release the Atari and Commodore 8 bit machines were actually technically superior.

It's easy to look back in hindsight and state what went wrong. The fact is that at the time computers were niche devices, few people really knew what to do with them in a mainstream consumerized sense beyond BASIC and games, meaning the tech companies that made them certainly struggled in relation to marketing. The only reason the IBM PC evolved and became the platform of choice was due to the fact that with the exception of the BIOS the IBM PC was open architecture, once the BIOS was clean room reverse engineered the open platform naturally became the platform of choice. Then we have DOOM. Once DOOM was released m68k's days as the dominant gaming platform were numbered, all it took was Gabe Newell to push for Windows as a gaming platform via D3D and Intel/3dfx had their market.

Both companies were using custom chipsets offloading graphics and sound duties from their 6502 (based) CPU's, in fact it's quite obvious Commodore looked at the Atari A8 line and literally cloned it while improving on the graphics and sound capabilities to suit the new era of gaming heading into the 80s - Even the color scheme of the CLI was similar. If the Amiga was in any way related to Atari, it was a third cousin, as any computing device not being marketed mainly for business use was running custom graphics and sound chipsets as opposed to tying up the CPU to perform such tasks and the Motorola 68k processor was at that time the CPU of choice regarding such devices. At the time, the engineers were working for Amiga Inc. and not Atari, let's consider the merits of the engineers themselves for their foresight that most likely lead to the dedicated GPU's and sound chipsets we utilize today. It wasn't Jack Tramel that destroyed Commodore, Jack Tramel was the one that made Commodore a billion dollar company, it was Irving Gould and Mehdi Ali that stripped Commodore clean and ran the company into the ground. Perhaps if Jack had have secured a bid for Amiga Inc the world would be better today as he was the one man of the era besides Steve Jobs that could make it happen, but sadly history states this didn't happen. Furthermore it wouldn't have made any difference as for better or worse the world moved on to DOOM and accelerated 3D graphics chipsets, leaving the graphics chipsets fitted to the ST and the A1200 in the dust. Bear in mind Commodore had their own chip fab to make the custom chipset for the Amiga, possibly why Commodore were able to secure the company.

I think this is a bit steep. I admit, Commodore's management wasn't the best, but neither was Atari's - Hence the reason Jay Miner and a handful of others left Atari to become Hi Toro, later to become Amiga Inc. and develop the Amiga chipset. Atari did not have any input in relation to the chipset, Atari provided Amiga Inc. with the bridging loan they needed to finish development. Even considering the marketing issues on behalf of both Commodore and Atari in the early days of personal computing (bearing in mind that hindsight is a distortion considering the reality of the time), I think Commodore had enough experience with multimedia computing and custom chipsets to market the Amiga as well as anyone else 'at the time' - Commodore's biggest problem was the greed of their CEO. Even Xerox had no idea how to market the Sparc or the even better Star, it took Steve Jobs to have the vision to push the idea of a GUI into the future, and even then AmigaOS was the better operating system with preemptive multitasking, something Apple didn't get until OSX from memory. The day's of Atari vs Commodore vs Apple vs Tandy and whomever else are over, we're all retro enthusiasts, let's not let our own biases turn every thread into a flame war. I am not an Atari, Commodore, Tandy or Apple enthusiast - I am a retro computing enthusiast and respect a time when such devices had soul. I love all 8bit machines, as well as some 16/32 bit machines.

Can I ask, did you compile the latest version 4.2.0? If so, how did you do it? I admit, I haven't looked right into it, but I couldn't fine any ./configure or similar bash script to install the software.

sudo apt install atari800 It's part of the Universe repo, you don't have to compile it as the version in the repo is the latest version.

Atari800 works great here. It's easy to install from the official universe repo (sudo apt install atari800) and pressing F1 brings up the menu. Furthermore, the version from the repo is the latest 4.1.0.