[Perfect* 3DO Scaling with the RetroTink 2x, OSSC, and Framemeister]

The Quest for Perfect Pixels

On my quest to achieve “perfect” 3DO scaling without using mods I stumbled upon the Japanese 3DO variant which outputs native 240p. You can read more about that here on AtariAge or watch the excellent My Life in Gaming video here. Sadly, there is no native 3DO with RGB output, only S-Video.

While the Framemeister is pretty great at upscaling 240p S-Video content, it isn’t quite perfect and I would prefer something even sharper.

To achieve what I’m after, I’m using a Retrotink 2x (convert S-Video to RGB), an Open Source Scan Converter (line triple/quadruple), and the trusty Framemeister.

RetroTink 2x

The RetroTink 2x is generally a super simple Line Doubler, taking a 240p input (composite, S-Video, or Component) and outputting a 480p signal over HDMI which most (all?) modern displays can display. Honestly, for most this is a terrific way to play the 3DO.

For my purposes, I just want it to convert the 240p signal, and not line double it (press the "processing" button until both lights are off).

One can then use a cheap HDMI to VGA converter to get back to an analog signal. I’m using one available at any Walmart. Why would one want an analog 240p RGB signal over VGA?

Open Source Scan Converter (OSSC)

To feed into the OSSC of course. The OSSC has a VGA input. With it, we can process that sweet 240p analog signal and attempt to perfectly sample the 3DO’s video output, and then line triple (720p) or line quadruple it (960p). Here are the settings I’m using on the OSSC:

240p/228p Proc: Line 4x

Line 4x Mode: 320x240 optim. (basically, we want to sample the 320 horizontal “resolution”, rather than sample the entire 720 signal)

H. Samplerate: 398 (attempting to sample the 320 pixels)

Sampling Phase: 281 (again, attempting to sample the perfect 320 pixels)

H. Backporch: 30 (shift image horizontally)

The OSSC will now be outputting a 1280x960p image over HDMI and each 3DO pixel will now be a 4x4 square.

Framemeister

This step may or may not be needed depending on your Television, Capture Card, or image processing preferences.

At this point, the 960p image is probably washed out. I believe the RetroTink 2x outputs in the limited RGB range (16-239). The VGA converter probably outputs in full RGB range (0-255) meaning whites are now light grey, and blacks are now dark grey. The Framemeister can be used to correct this. For the sake of perfect “4x” pixels I’ll also leave the 960p image in a bordered 1080p “frame”:

Output: 1080p_60

Image_Mode: Picture

Screen_Set: Smart_X1

Black: 8

So, with the RetroTink 2X converting S-Video into RGB, the OSSC sampling and scaling to 960p, and the Framemeister correcting the color and correcting the video signal, we get “perfect” 4x captures of the 3DO.

I've cropped these back down to 1280x960p in photoshop. Click the images for full size.

Issues:

I don’t think the colors are correct. The mid-range color look noticeably “hotter” than feeding S-Video straight into a Framemeister. I’m not sure if this can be fixed, or if it is in fact correct as-is.

It doesn’t seem the OSSC can perfectly sample the 320 horizontal resolution of the signal. There is some horizontal blur most noticeable on the left side of the image. This might be resolved with better sampling settings on the OSSC, or this might be as good as it gets. Still, the checkerboards in Soccer Kid and Blade Force are spot on.

Somewhere along the line, the top row of pixels is getting cut off. I don’t know if this can be fixed either.

If you have any improvements in terms of better hardware or better OSSC/Framemeister settings, please share them.

Thank you.

[Did you know? The 240p FZ-1 Variant]

Did you know? There is a Japanese FZ-1 variant 3DO lacking an RF module, but instead has a MODE SELECT switch. Mode A is 480i, mode B is 240p. No mods needed! I figured I'd share this here since this it isn't common knowledge and might incredibly useful for some.

 

If you happen to own one of these 3DO’s and a Framemeister, here are the S-Video settings I used for the above captures:

HDMI_Output: 720_60p

Image_Mode: Picture

Brightness: 25

Gamma: 14

Black: 2

Saturation: 23

Sharpness: 1

A/D Level: 142

Visual_Set Menu

H_Scaler: 11

V_Scaler: 6

Zoom_Set Menu

Zoom_Size: 100

Zoom_Width: 45

Video_Set Menu

Pedestal_Lvl: On

Cheers!

[Framemeister Settings?]

Here's a video from Kris, a member here, showing his Jaguar XRGB mini settings:

 

He has those same type videos for many consoles.

 

Thanks for the plug

 

Here are some updated settings I haven't released to the world yet. I don't have 1080p profiles created yet, but these should yield excellent results:

 

320x224 Games: (Most games run in this mode)

HDMI_Output: 720_60p

Image_Mode: Picture

A/D_Level: 175

Color_Set Menu

Brightness: 26

Black: 2

Sharpness: 1

Visual_Set Menu

H_Pos: 96

H_Scaler: 5

V_Scaler: 6

Zoom_Set Menu

Zoom: On

Zoom_Size: 100

Zoom_Width: 33

256x224 Games: (Atari Karts, Val D’Isere, Supercross 3D)

HDMI_Output: 720_60p

Image_Mode: Picture

A/D_Level: 175

Color_Set Menu

Brightness: 26

Black: 2

Sharpness: 1

Visual_Set Menu

H_Pos: 80

H_Scaler: 5

V_Scaler: 6

Zoom_Set Menu

Zoom: On

Zoom_Size: 100

Zoom_Width: 75

Enjoy!

[TI-99 Photos Thread! Post your systems here!]

Here is my old TI-99/4A. I had some parts laying around so I added composite video jacks as well as made a quick adapter to use a Neo Geo stick.

 

 

 

[Super Burnout bike lights]

I found another one and this closest to mine version.

 

 

Your game and Jaguar are fine. It's your TV that is introducing the artifacts.

[Issues with RGB Scart to xrgb mini]

 

So I was pretty stoked to get my Jaguar hooked up to my xrgb mini after seeing how awesome the Genesis looked, but when I did, I get these "wavy" horizontal lines. I's pretty noticeable in the Kasumi Ninja intro.

 

(video of the issue)

 

I've tried playing around with the settings on the xrgb to no avail. The colors actually look amazing, but those damn lines are very annoying.

 

Here's my setup:

 

Jaguar

-->RGB-SCART cable w/CSYNC (purchased from https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/atari-jaguar/atari-jaguar-rgb-scart-cable-cord)

-->RGB Scart to XRGB RGB Adapter with Sync Stripper

-->RGB input on Frememeister

I've used the same setup with two RGB SCART cables (a Genesis cable w/ Csync and from a Toro box (Dreamcast) and none of them have this issue.

Is this something wrong with my Jaguar itself? has anyone else had this issue with a similar setup?

 

 

Try adjusting the Sync_Level and see if the picture gets more stable.

 

To my eyes, it looks like a TV doing a bad job de-interlacing 480i video. As others mentioned double check you have the output set to 1080p.

 

If you have a regular Euro-scart to mini adapter, I would test that as well. There is no need for a sync-stripper when using a CSYNC cable.

 

Good luck!

[***OFFICIAL Random Object In Coleco Chameleon Thread***]

Sega Cyclone, obviously.

 

[Someone asked nicely...]

You must be new here. The Jag forum is unlike anything you'll find anywhere on the Internet.

I've been here longer than you I've seen it all, lived through it all, and come out the other side. We're not going back.

 

Interesting, please explain.

See below.

My take on CJ ST ports is that he ports whatever he likes/cares out of the goodness of his heart and sometimes if you ask nicely, then if the original author/copyright-holder is not happy about it CJ simply pulls the ports in question. I believe there's a couple that have been pulled, and my speculation is that CJ has been asked to.

 

Check here:

http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/ST2JAG/ST2JAG.php

the N/A I believe are in that group.

 

This is my speculation about the subject.

This ^

 

 

You're posting on a website that houses hundreds (thousands?) of old Atari roms. Historically, there has been a few bad apples that freak out whenever an old/new Jag rom gets posted on the net. Just move on.

[Someone asked nicely...]

I think it is a fair question. Does he have permission to port these games and give them out freely or is he himself the original author of the games he ports? I am just as excited as the next guy to see the Jaguar get some love from a talented programmer but the question still stands.

 

p.s.

If I had a skunk I would grovel on my knees for a port of Star Raiders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't the Jaguar forum circa 2009, it's time to move on. Welcome to 2015, where the Jag forum functions like every other corner of the Internet.

[Any Rayman experts out there?]

The best way to rack up lives is just use the cheat code for 50 lives.

 

Fifty lives per continue

When the "walking hands" appear during the opening sequence, press 5, 1, 5, 2, 5, 3. A message will you entered the code correctly.

 

The number pad was added to the Jaguar controller for the sole purpose of making Rayman fair with the above code.

[Power Drive Rally]

Funny you mention "mirror" because that is what I thought when I first saw it as well. I thought the transparency effects were far cooler than the water effects.

 

The skill tests aren't so bad, just don't hit a cone and you should be fine. Hitting a cone takes a HUGE amount of time off the clock.

 

The game is good, but a far cry from great.

[Anyone have any amazing Jag finds in the wild?]

Over the years I've gotten a Jag CD, extra controller, 2x Cyber Morph, and Alien vs. Predator. I rarely see Jag stuff, and it's usually overpriced. But every now and again...

[Worst Jaguar games?]

The answer is Checkered Flag.

 

Checkered Flag starts out promising enough with a clean title screen featuring a polygonal logo and a catchy title track.

 

But once you start a race, that hopeful feeling is lost. The frame rate is awful. It moves with far less grace than Virtua Racing for the 32x or even Stunt Race FX for the SNES. It’s embarrassing for sure, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

 

The controls are broken. They are not just flawed and unresponsive, they are flat out broken. The longer you hold left or right, the quicker it steers in that direction. If you hold a direction too long, you careen straight into a wall. I’m not talking about a 1 second button press here, the urgency at which your car will find the wall is truly astounding.

 

It’s as if no one ever bothered to play test this. However the instruction manual clearly lists an entire team of testers. It doesn’t take an expert to determine there may be some flaws with the controls. How this got past an entire team…. I think the instruction manual is lying.

 

At this point nothing else matters. You can’t navigate turns, you can’t pass, you'd be hard pressed to complete a lap without wiping out. It’s just not possible. Just when you think you have it under control, you’re flipping through the air.

 

Checkered Flag's plunge into Superman 64 territory doesn’t stop there either, the soundtrack is awful, the engine sound is lackluster, the A.I. is pointless, and the track design is uninspired. What happened to that title screen music? Why does the A.I. stop in the middle of the road? What is the point of hairpin turns if you can’t drive through them?

 

The only reason to play Checkered Flag is to experience for yourself how terrible it really is. All the words in the world can’t convey what it feels like to try and play this game.

 

What’s remarkable is that this game came from a company called Rebellion, who developed the well-received Alien vs. Predator one month earlier. The titles couldn’t be more different.

There isn’t a single redeeming quality about Checkered Flag. Some will try to defend the game, those people are high. The game isn’t hard or challenging in any meaningful way. It’s hard because it’s broken. It should have never been released. It’s very existence is part of the reason the Jaguar has such a bad reputation.

 

The answer is Checkered Flag.

[Jaguar S-Video Cables]

The TV is a tube tv I guess. 32 inch that I was playing on.

If it's a late 90's early 00's CRT of decent quality, you probably won't notice much difference at all. TVs of that age had decent comb filters that really cleaned up Composite sources to near S-video quality.

 

You'll really appreciate the S-Video cable if you ever invest in a nice upscaler (like the XRGB-mini) as Austin noted.

[Jaguar S-Video Cables]

Depending on your TV you might not see much of a difference at all. Are you using a flat panel or a CRT?

[I bought an Atari Jaguar with Zool 2 recently, and the game won't pause.]

This happens with my Zool 2 and Jag (both new old stock, no previous owner). The best thing to do with Zool 2 is to try and press pause as brief as you can, should work. Now if only there was a fix for the "up-is-jump" issue...

[RGB to VGA scan doubler converter / scaler?]

 

It is simply the best video processor for older systems, bar none. It's not cheap but you get what you pay for. Every video solution I tried (and there were tons of them) could never remotely approach the level of parting me from my dedicated gaming CRT, the xRGB mini finally managed that.

 

I've been arguing with Gunstar for 3 years about video processors, so now I just tone down my love for anything that isn't the Ambery blah blah blah

 

But I'm in the same boat as you, the xRGB mini has allowed me to finally get rid of all of my CRTs except one (used for the NES and 2600). My main gaming set-up now revolves around the xRGB mini and a flat screen monitor. Nothing else comes close to giving you the pixel perfect quality of an emulator while still using the original hardware.

[Wtb atari jaguar kiosk]

Congrats man! I would love to own one of these but I don't see it happening anytime soon, haha.

[RGB to VGA scan doubler converter / scaler?]

I would also recommend looking at the xRGB mini. It's pricey but easily the best video processor for old gaming systems. You can read a detailed review here, and purchase here.

 

Here is a personal capture using a Genesis via RGB, then using the xRGB mini to scale to 720p and outputting to HDMI:

 

 

There are a few other members here (including Kevin from Reboot) that love the xRGB mini as well.

[Hooking a Jag to newer TVs]

It works flawlessly for my jaguar, my Atari ST when I had it, my Sega/CD when I had it, my NUON DVD when I had it, This thing is made for any old device that has RGB or component out, from 240p-480i and it works flawlessly, adjustments are automatic. I don't know your experience, but this is the best picture possible, for the best price, it really does blow everything else away.

 

Some things never change.

 

I have YEARS of hands-on experience with the Ambery device, it works with everything I've thrown at it, flawlessly, on any VGA compatible monitor or TV I've thrown at it (quite a few; LCD projector, 21" CRT, 17" CRT, 21" LCD flat monitor and my 53" 1080i rear-projection R/G/B lensed CRT TV). I can't force you to believe me. This is true wisdom from experience, take it or leave it. This Ambery is the best bar none, for any price. Period.

 

I'm happy with what I got, so I'm not going to read that article, I don't care, I know what I have and it is the best bar none, i don't care if you want to pay hundreds more for something that gives the same results, that's your parogative.

 

Clearly your wisdom knows no bounds.

 

For everyone else, I would also recommend the article Kevin recommended. There are 45 reviews of video processors from the past decade, and many of them include screen grabs. There are even a few comparisons thrown thought the page. It's a really good read if you are looking to hook up your old systems to modern flat panels. Lots of wisdom on that page!

[Hooking a Jag to newer TVs]

If money is no object, an xRGB Mini is the way to go:

 

http://www.solarisjapan.com/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit/?setCurrencyId=1

[FS: CIB Turbografx-16, dozens of other retro goodies]

Hello everyone. It's time to start weeding out the collection for some funds. Everything is in good condition unless otherwise noted (either better or worse). Pictures will be coming soon (PM me if needed urgently).

 

PayPal only. US preferred UK/Canada possible. Delivery Confirmation preferred, shipping will be exact cost from zip code 54304.

 

I've never sold on AA before, but I decided to give it ago and skip eBay based on recommendation from Austin.

 

eBay feedback: (after I moved out of my parents house I made my own eBay account, which is why there are 2)

justgreggie http://myworld.ebay.com/justgreggie

implantgames: http://myworld.ebay.com/implantgames

 

Here's what's available:

 

(Legend: C = Cart/CD; I = Instructions; B = Box)

 

SEGA GENSIS - Capcom Pad Soldier GS - item only - $15

 

TURBOGRAFX-16 - System and Box - $80 (box in used condition, system is nice, includes pack-in game)

TURBOGRAFX-16 - R-Type CIB - $22 (has jewel case, missing outer cardboard box)

 

 

[/url]

 

GAMECUBE - System and Power Cable - $10 (system is defective, plays some games, has loading issues on most. Could be laser issue, could be fatel, AS-IS)

 

NINTENDO 64 - Yoshi's Story CIB - $25 (someone taped the ends shut at one point, I refuse to peel it off)

 

NEO GEO CD - Joy Joy Kid CIB JPN - $25

NEO GEO CD - Magical Drop 2 CIB - $26 (includes spine card)

 

MASTER SYSTEM - Missile Defense 3-D CB - $7 (used condition)

MASTER SYSTEM - Zaxxon 3-D CB - $7 (used condition)

MASTER SYSTEM - Altered Beast CIB - $5

 

NINTENDO DS - Game & Watch Collection (1) CIB - $22

 

XBOX 360 - Oblivion Collectors Edition CIB - $40 (coin, map, manual, book, bonus disc, first run rated TEEN instead of Mature)

XBOX 360 - white Media Remote - item only - $7 (official remote, long version)

 

XBOX - Namco Museum CB - $4

XBOX - Midway arcade Treasures 3 CIB - $7

XBOX - Sonic Heroes CIB - $14 (original release)

 

DREAMCAST - Skies of Arcadia CIB - $35

DREAMCAST - Razor Freestyle Scooter CIB - $5

 

ATARI JAGUAR - Fight For Life C-only - $30 (cart can be touchy to boot-up)

[Jaguar HSC Revamped, SEASON 3, ROUND 5]

126,310

 

 

[[POLL CLOSED] Choose which games we will play next season.]

Voted. I'm ready for another epic Super Burnout battle

[Sega Master System games and memories..]

Great thread!

 

I didn't even know the Master System existed until I finally got access to the internet in 1998. What a trip!

 

Anyway, I finally secured a Master System and a handful of games from a friend in 2001 for $10. I was supposed to pay $20, but didn't quite have enough. He said $10 was fine and that was that. Sadly, the none of the game grabbed me at all and my Master System collected dust until 2009. That's right, I never really played the master system till 23 years after it's arrival on our shores.

 

The first title that finally hooked my is the excellent Psycho Fox. This little platformer completely changed my view of the Sega Master System. The colors are excellent, the graphics look nice and detailed, the controls are wonky, but in a good way, and the level design is generally quite nice. I played this for hours the day I received it and probably finished it the next day, on another marathon run. Such a great little exclusive title. Not only that, it's infinitely better the Kool Kid on the NES.

 

eBay can be a strange site. I bought a box of random crap on eBay for $21 shipped which included a Master System console, an NES console, some random controllers/cables for both, along with R-Type and Teddy Boy. I eventually cleaned both of the consoles and sold them both for a nice profit leaving me with 2 excellent games and a handful of cash.

 

R-Type is in my opinion, the best game on the system. In fact, i'd say it's the best 8-bit shmup of all time. It's that good. The graphics easily surpass anything I've ever seen from such primitive hardware, and the music is some of the best on the Master System. While most SMS games tend to have fairly primitive sound, especially when compared to the rival NES, R-Type sounds amazing. And that's without the added FM synthesizer hardware available on Japanese Master Systems.

 

Teddy Boy is a fun little game released on the Sega Card. One of the few Card games actually, which makes it even cooler. The game itself is oddly addicting, with the screen looping in every direction with the simple goal of killing everything on the screen. The game is tough as nails, but there is a cheat code to get around the limited continues. Everything about Teddy Boy is charming, and it remains one of my favorite SMS games.

 

A few other honorable mentions include Enduro Racer which seems more inspired by Excite Bike than it's arcade counterpart. But that's not a bad thing. This isometric racer is fun, challenging, and short. It's perfect for 10 minute bursts of gaming, and if you like doing time attacks, it satisfies that need as well. This isn't a standout title by any stretch, but one of my favorites none the less.

 

Lastly, I'll include Hang-On on my list. This is kind of a bad game, but after playing through it once for a written review, and a second time a year later for a video review, it's simplistic charm has finally won me over. It's crude and simple, but I don't care anymore. The game play is spot on, the physics are great, and it's just a lot of fun to play.

 

My knowledge of the Master System is still rather limited, and I have a backlog of titles waiting to be played (included Cloud Master and Wonder Boy) but over the last two years, the silly little wedge of black plastic has won me over.