dlmartins
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Posts posted by dlmartins
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As an aside, this thread/discussion may also be important when AtariAge, Champ Games, etc. start selling roms. People may want to play them on their MiSTer, for the various advantages it provides (lower latency, more accuracy if the core is implemented correctly, etc.), not knowing they will likely never be playable.
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I appreciate the thorough and direct responses.
@splendidnut, absolutely. I respect and admire the work Kitrinx has done. My intent here was to bring this to the folks actually working on the enhanced games and get genuine responses to the concerns. SpiceWare provided an excellent response and he is one of the main people involved in CDFJ, etc., so it carries even more weight, in my eyes.
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I had a recent discussion on the MiSTer FPGA discord. It started off as a discussion about preservation that eventually led to enhanced games and their use. I really enjoyed the back and forth discussion.
I think some of the discussion went a bit off the rails due to misconceptions about who actually created these ARM enhancements, such as CDFJ. My impression is it is believed to be from random, lazy homebrew developers and not the best of the crop of current Atari developers who put a lot of thought and effort into this. Someone even equated it (I guess) to an NES experiment sticking a raspberry pi in an NES, which is kind of amusing that the thought went that way.
(For backstory, CDFJ stands for Chris (@cd-w) Darrell (@SpiceWare) Fred (@batari) and John (@johnnywc), who were involved in its creation.
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I'll paste some of the discussion on the end of MiSTer development.
It also echoes the thoughts of adding enhanced game support to MiSTer. It is seen as ridiculous (Can you enhance the core to support Harmony/Melody cartridge type · Issue #43 · MiSTer-devel/Atari2600_MiSTer · GitHub).
Personally, from a technical level, I can totally understand support in MiSTer not being feasible and it doesn't echo the strict, museum preservation guidelines of MiSTer.
However, it does seem disturbing (to me) that any new games for older consoles must be written in a time capsule/time appropriate approach, so they can be supported by older emulation. My thinking is these games are being made today (in 2021) and many Atari DEVs approach it that way, they want to use the latest technology available at this time, not 1992.
My main questions for the Atari development community:
- Is there a danger for enhanced games, by their nature, to not be preserved or playable?
- Is the lack of support in MiSTER and possibly other hardware based approaches for these enhanced games a concern?
- Is the use of enhanced games lazy and a lazy approach (compared to a Mapper)?
- What are the primary reasons for using ARM based enhancements?-
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I just dug out my 2X Pro and now I can see the issue. Comparing the 5X and 2X Pro does seem like a big difference, at least on my setup. I typically have the 7800 hooked up to a CRT and haven't played much 2600 on it until recently (we did have a 2600 growing up). This is fascinating.
For Starmaster, I get a rolling image on the 2X Pro. No issues at all on the 5X.
I also tried Moon Patrol with the 2X Pro and I can see the sync drops, which doesn't occur on the 5X Pro.
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10 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:So does it work with Starmaster, or not?
Seemed okay to me, but I'm not sure if this is like Moon Patrol and only certain parts are problematic. I'm not very familiar with this game, so the gameplay is shameful and I had to mess with the difficulty switches, etc. I hope this helps.
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6 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:So does it work with Starmaster, or not?
If I get some time tonight, I’ll give this a shot and let you know.
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5 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:The issue with Moon Patrol is the title screen not being displayed or displayed properly as I understand it. But you dropped straight into the game so didn't have a means to really see that.
Here's a quick one of the title screen. Sorry for not showing that.
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Here's a quick-ish video running through some of the games listed. I hope this helps.
Atari 2600 game testing (via 7800) on Retrotink 5X Pro - YouTube
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I’ll work on a video test when I log off work today.
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I only have a 7800, but no Dragonfly yet. I do have a Harmony Encore. What are some challenging/sync issue 2600 games to test out? Make me a list. I have a 5X and I may be able to do a quick video/test.
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What type/genre of game is the most glaring current omission in the 7800 library, in your opinion?
I don't think it's the most glaring, but I would love to see a Contra-style side-scrolling run and gun. I loved that type of game in those days (and today, especially the Metal Slug series). On a personal note, I would love to see it done in a family-friendly, comedic way starring Charley Chuck. Instead of a gun and different gun powerups, he could throw food at enemies and the powerups would be the different types of foods (watermelons, etc.). Give him a magic backpack that he pulls food out of, or a food cannon (similar to a T-shirt cannon) and let him plow through wave after wave of enemies (I'm assuming taking advantage of the 7800 sprite capabilities) and then face a legendary chef as the boss of a level. Throw in some flying vehicle based horizontal shmup-type (think Metal Slug flyer) levels and/or some Robotron chaotic food fight levels to break up the repetitiveness/monotony. Special attention would have to be placed on the animation of the food hitting the enemies, pie chunks hitting, spreading, then fading away, so it's really satisfying. I don't expect this to ever happen, but I can dream (and I would probably take any sequel/continuation of Food Fight).
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Is this kind of information incorrect?
https://www.wise-geek.com/what-is-a-digital-comb-filter.htm”A digital comb filter takes these two pieces of information — color and luminescence — and separates them; this causes the transmission to enter the TV at a slightly slower rate, but it dramatically increases picture quality. Several different digital comb filters exist, with newer ones able to process information with better accuracy and in less time. Such a filter is unneeded, and will not do anything, if the TV is receiving a super-video (S-video) transmission.”
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Interesting. Admittedly most of my knowledge here is from the laserdisc world, which the signal was already composite. The commonly spouted advice was if the comb filter in the laserdisc player was better than the tv, use S-Video and bypass the television comb filter, otherwise, use composite and let the television use its comb filter. Y/C filter sounds like it is some sort of interference filter. The review sounds like it applies a notch or 4 line comb filter to the svideo signal.
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Doesn’t S-Video already separate luma and chroma? I could be mistaken, but why would a comb filter apply here?
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Please also add me to the preorder list for the Burgundy Dragonfly with Pokey Max and YM2151. This will be shipping to the US. Thanks!
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ARM based/enhanced Atari development, MISTer FPGA, and preservation
in Atari 2600
Posted
FPGA being more accurate than Stella is probably out of the scope for the discussion here, but FPGA does have inherent advantages, assuming the core is implemented correctly. Stella is amazing, no doubt.
I don't think Champ or AtariAge have promised MiSTer compatibility either, but I think some customers could assume that the roms would play, especially when the 7800 core has 2600 functionality unlocked (which seems to be the plan). I just wanted to point it out.