jbanes
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Who blames the Tramiels for the crash (1983 btw)?I do!
Well, not so much the entire situation as much as lighting off the tinderbox. Things were already precarious with an oversupply of games on the market. But when Tramiel dropped the price on the Commodore 64, he lit off a Roman Candle that had every retail store practically giving away its console games so they could make room for inexpensive (and high margin!) computers. He freaked out the Commodore board so badly that they fired him!
Gotta love ol' Jack.
As for the NES vs. 7800 comparison, both Supercat and Drac are on the money. Supercat pointed out several aspects that would have helped and Drac's point that the 7800 was never actually pushed is correct. However, there is also the aspect of looking at the machine from a programmer's perspective. One of the reasons why the machine was never pushed is because the design was not as practical as the NES's design.
On paper, the 7800 looks nothing short of incredible. You can push massive numbers of sprites at high colors and resolutions. By any stretch of the imagination, it should be able to outperform every console of its day.
But if you actually sit down and attempt to program it, that's where frustration sets in. It's not that those paper promises are impossible. (Though they are a bit overstated.) It's just that the architecture is so convoluted. Just to display a sprite on the screen requires a Masters Degree in Computer Science with your thesis done on Advanced Data Structures! i.e. The Display List List which ran down every scan line to run the Display List for that line. That sounds like a cool solution until you realize that simple programs like moving sprites vertically are really tough. In result, how much power can be squeezed out of the system depends on how clever you are with manipulating data structures in a limited number of processor cycles.
But don't worry! It gets worse.
Accessing the 2600 bus significantly drops the performance of the CPU. Which shouldn't be a problem, save for the cheapness of the system's design. Since there is no POKEY chip, I/O routines like joysticks and sound have to be handled through the TIA/RIOT chip. Which means that your precious cycles intended for data structure manipulation are getting lost to odd downshifts in processor speed. Furthermore, making use of the DMA controller results in the processor being halted while the DMA chip does its work. This makes the DMA transfer only useful if you have a significant task to offload to it.
Broadly speaking, all these issues can be worked around. But they create a huge barrier of entry, especially for many game programmers who were not former CompSci students. They had to deal with a rather steep learning curve that Tramiel just wasn't willing to pay for.
The NES was far less powerful on paper, but its internal design was much simpler and easier to use. Backgrounds were structured around character-mode tiles, scrolling support was more or less built into the PPU, the designers took flicker as a design-necessity into account, and sprite handling was straight forward task despite the system's limitations. The end result was that the NES was pretty easy to program for. Once there was a strong base of programmers, Nintendo was able to push out various hardware expansions that could be included in cartridges to make the system perform even better.
Thus the 7800 may technically be more powerful, but it's the NES that was practically more powerful.
Unfortunately, Atari would make the exact same mistake of technology over practicality with their next console: The Jaguar
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The 5200 was the PS3 of its day. It was big, it was powerful, and it was full of QUALITY games. The quality aspect of the games was something that the CV couldn't claim. At best, the CV was full of straightforward arcade ports. Sometimes they were fun, sometimes they were tedious. Coleco pretty much left that problem up to third-party developers.
Atari was the exact opposite. When they acquired a major license, they tended to do the work themselves and made sure that the game was fun. Thus the 5200 is home to some of the best renditions of Pacman, Missile Command, Moon Patrol, Robotron, Bezerk, Joust, Q-Bert, Kangaroo, Vanguard, and the list just keeps going.
If it weren't for the tendency of the controllers to self-destruct, the machine would be much better remembered. (That and the fact that the system was killed almost immediately by the crash of '83, then snubbed by Atari's new owner.)
So here's my list:
1) The best games of any system of its time
2) Powerful design; one of the most practical of its day
3) Operating joysticks feel good in the hand and are extremely capable controllers
4) The sound generated by the POKEY was music to gamer's ears
5) A great deal of expense went into making it the best game platform of its day. From joystick couplers to the massive trackball, the system was made for maximum enjoyment.
I just wish the controllers didn't need so much TLC.
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Guitar Hero: World Tour
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Is the issue just $?If it was that simple, I imagine they'd issue stocks (long-term equity, but no need to repay) or bonds (sort of like a loan backed by many people) and see if they can raise a bit of capital.
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I just got it for $10 in one of those Amazon Gold Box deals. Great buy, IHMO! It takes the Labyrinth table-top concept (which Monkey Ball and Rayman do poorly) and turns it into a puzzle title. Rather than a solid metal ball, you have mercury which can be split into smaller balls, recombined, recolored, dripped off the side of the level, made solid, made gooey, and other neat features. You end up having to not only avoid traps and not fall off the edge, but you need to perform tasks like split your mercury so that you can color each part separately then recombine them to make the color you need to pass a color-locked doorway.
The game is not a must-buy at a high price, but if you can find it inexpensively, don't hesitate to pick it up!
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Can that even be done legally?That's like asking if a 2600 clone can be released legally. And we all know the answer to that one.
The biggest hurdle would be acquiring the rights to ROMs. Potentially ROMs could be licensed from third parties like Activision. (Who, as I recall, owns much of the GOOD third party library including IMagic's titles.)
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I love the game. Yeah, it's got a lot of text, but that's just part of its charm. One of the few games I've played all the way through. Of course, I was never really able to get into A Thousand Year Door despite being a huge fan of the original Paper Mario. So take my opinion for what it's worth*.
* About 30 million units more than Atari5200's opinion
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I really liked that stage and its boss, but I didn't like that you can't save the game then. Is there another save spot within the castle or do you have to complete all of it in a single go?You have to do Wily's levels all in one go. It's possible to save after each level, but saving won't actually remember the level you're on. Which is the primary reason why I haven't finished the game. Finding enough time to get through all four levels at once is more than I really have the time or energy for. Darn this "being an adult with responsibilities" thing.
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Now I'm stuck at Plug Man himself...After playing ~ 4:30 now, I've beaten all other bosses, but I really can't get past him. He's almost immune against most weapons, it even seems the regular blaster does damage him the most?
Once again, Jewel Man's weapon. Use the shield to absorb the Plug Balls, then let 'em have it by firing the shield forward. Alternatively, you can scrape him with your shield to invoke damage. Either way will whomp him a good one!
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This is one thing that MS and Sony won't have to deal with, knock off competition.*cough*hyperscan*cough*
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Gotta say, as an aside, it looks to me like the wii is really hitting it's stride lately- kind of like about 2 years into the ds' lifespan when the awesome started to show up. I mean, Punch Out, NMH2, Skywalker, Sin and Punishment2, plus all these frikkin' GREAT wiiware games (not to mention the VC- just got Super Mario RPG, SHining Force I and II, and Secret of Mana)- I am one happy panda.Lucky you. I am very sad panda.
The reason? I'm falling behind on all the great games coming out! There simply is not enough hours in the day! (Or money in my pocket!)
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That's what the Plug Man stage is currently still doing to me. I just don't find a reliable way of passing the very last "moving blocks" section, there's just too much going on on this screen. Only made it to the boss once so far...The key is to beat Jewel Man first. If you've defeated Jewel Man, Plug Man's stage gets much, much, much easier. Just activate your Jewel shield before taking the jumps. (In fact, use it throughout the level.) After that, it's just a matter of getting the order down correctly. For the most part, the order should be obvious. It only gets tricky at the end. There you have to get to the other side of the wall, get on the block in the center, jump to the left (up against the wall) just before the block you're standing on disappears, wait for two seconds, then jump straight up so that a block appears underneath you. You can then bunny hop the last two blocks to get to the ledge.
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Don't forget Rock Band 2.Screw Rock Band. I'm going for Guitar Hero World Tour*!
* If nothing else, at least the instruments won't break when I open the box.
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I know what you mean. Not only is my Wii disc wish list growing (you forgot The Conduit and Wii Sports Resort), but so is my WiiWare/VC list. Here's what's already out that I recently purchased or wish to purchase:
- Mega Man 9
- Star Parodier
- Mario RPG
- Bomberman Blast
And we have the following still coming!
- Gradius Rebirth
- Alien Crush Returns
- Cave Story
- LostWinds 2
- Sandy Beach
- Shantae
- Tetris Party
- World of Goo (out on monday!)
GAAAHHHH!!!! TOO. MUCH. GOOD. STUFFS!
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* Nintendo.Don't you mean "Capcom"?
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Capcom has released Endless Attack (300 Wii Points) Mode and Proto Man Mode (200 Wii Points).
Story: http://www.wiimedia.com/news/view/proto_man_available/ (Click for pics)
If you have been waiting for Proto Man or Endless Attack, load up Mega Man 9 and visit the "Downloadable Content" screen to grab these options.
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The GBA game is WAY better than the Wii game. The Wii game is much slower paced and the gravity feels more like vacuum cleaners than actual gravity. The Game Boy game is much faster-paced and has you whipping around suns left and right. I recommend it over the WiiWare game.
That being said, a lot of people seem to like the WiiWare game. If you're into slower paced games, you may like this one. Otherwise, I'd pass.
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Ok, the list of maps is complete for the time being. I'm still expecting Plug Man at some point, but the artist is in the middle of a move ATM, so he won't be getting me that update for a few days at least.
Also, the full collection of the Mega Man 9 info I collected can be found in our Mega Man 9 FAQ: Mega Man 9 - Top to Bottom
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Today's WiiWare release brings the long-anticipated Bomberman Blast to US shores. But it also brings an unexpected new title called Art Style: Orbient. Published by Nintendo, this is the first anyone has heard of it. What is this strange new title?While not much else is known about this game, many commentators have noted that Orbient sounds awfully close to a little-known GBA game called bit Generations Orbital. The bit Generations series is a Japanese-only collection of games released for the Game Boy Advance. These games are fairly simplistic in nature and were primarily released to Club Nintendo members.
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We downloaded Megaman 9 last night. My 13-year old son (who played some of the NES megamans via PC emulation) beat all the levels and bosses by bedtime.
My skillz were never that good. That's one talented kid you've got there!
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The 7800 is probably a good example of a system that doesn't fit in the generation, since it kind of sort of had the power of its peers, but its games and game styles and default controllers were pretty much from the previous generation.In all fairness, the 7800 was a machine from 1984 competing against a machine from 1983.
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Mega Man 9 is hard, but Capcom learned from the previous games. Rather than presenting you with super-hard challenges that are difficult to pass every time, they focus more on the puzzling aspect that combines a mild challenge. As a result, you WILL get better at the levels through mere repetition. Plug Man's jump puzzles, for example, seemed so hard until I beat the level. Then I came back to grab power-ups and found that it was relatively easy to breeze through it.
In effect, you may die a LOT, but you make progress every time. And that progress is what separates a decent game from an incredible game. Even the poorest players (which I count myself among in my ripe old age of 'adult'
) find solace in a game that allows them to improve. Just a bit more practice, and I'll have Tornado Man burnt to a crisp!
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Actually I was thinking of the standard NES romhack. I really think it's sad that they took all the time to make a new 8-bit looking game, and not bother to release it on the system.I think someone did at least start this. I can't find them right now, but there were some alternative maps out there I found. One of the commentators mentioned that the maps did not appear to be from Mega Man 9, but a romhack designed to look like Mega Man 9. Presumably, the enemies were missing from the map because they had not yet been implemented.
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BTW, I updated the viewer with the Jewel Man upload. Zooming and jumping to tips should be smoother now. Let me know if you see any issues with the viewer or the maps themselves.
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I liked Mega Man X. I didn't like the series so much. Mega Man X was an incredible evolution for the Blue Bomber. A move forward that increased his abilities and gave him a cool storyline to run with. Unfortunately, that "cool storyline" went the way of the generic Anime and quickly eclipsed the series with its annoying aspects.
Worse, the level design fell off like crazy. There simply wasn't the same inventiveness going on with the platforming. This made the whole series feel repetitive and boring.
I have the Mega Man X collection (mostly purchased to appease my young son), but it's not something I pull out very often.
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What is the 7800 really capable of?
in Atari 7800
Posted
Not sure what gives you that idea. The 2600 isn't that hard to program for if you're making straight-up use of its facilities. It's only when you push it beyond its designed facilities that things get hard.
The 7800 on the other hand? Dear God in heaven. Amazingly convoluted. You can get used to it, but that doesn't mean there isn't a massive learning curve. Especially if you're used to controlling sprites on the 2600.