Urchlay
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Posts posted by Urchlay
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Comments? your own dream like this? post it here!
I have recurring dreams where I go to some store (sometimes a real store, sometimes fictional) and find piles of Atari stuff, new in the box, some real items and some imaginary... and there's always a reason I can't get them. Usually I don't have any money... Sometimes I just had the other recurring dream where I wreck my car (so I don't have any way to get them home). Sometimes because the store closes and they kick me out.
Wish I could remember some of the fictitious stuff from those dreams. Games that don't exist, weird-colored consoles, or a console that has a keyboard like an Atari 800 but a woodgrain finish like a 2600... With typical dream-logic, I always recognize everything (Hey, look, it's the Atari 839 Ethernet adaptor! I always wanted one of those...), but most of it doesn't stay in my memory for very long. I'm one of those people who stays asleep until the last possible second before I have to get up and get ready to go to work, so by the time I'm in the shower it's all gone.
You're a lucky man... you have a girlfriend who actually shares your interests. I always get stuck with the ones who have 500 pair of shoes and another pile of 300 mismatched shoes that they won't throw out because they "have the other one around here somewhere". That or the ones who want to convert me to their religion (why were they dating a "heathen" in the first place? I have no idea)... and plenty more I won't talk about on here (it's a family board).
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well theres got to be a point.....at least to rack up as many points as possible, at least
Sort-of... the game just never gets very difficult. How many points you can get is a function of how many hours you can spend playing it... at some point, your hand will get tired, or you'll have to go to the john, or whatever... unless you get bored first.
Which is not to say the game is *bad*... It's good for a quick blowing-stuff-up fix, and sometimes that's exactly what you need.
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If I can't do s-video, I'll do the composite output conversion... unless someone knows a better way
The composite output mods are basically the same as the S-video mods, you just tie the S-video chroma and luma together (perhaps with a resistor).
There are a couple links in the 2600 FAQ, right here on AtariAge:
http://www.atariage.com/2600/faq/index.htm...=2600#othermods
I'm not so great at soldering, but I was able to do the Ben Heckendorn mod to one of my 4-switchers. It's the simplest of the mods, and is supposed to have the worst video quality... but it's light years ahead of using the RF modulator.
There are also a couple of people on this forum who will do the mod for you, for a reasonable price (or there were... any of you guys still doing this?)
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i have space jockey but havent ever gotten around to play it.....it looks great and sounds fun.....why does everyone diss it.....whats supposed to be SO bad about it
The only thing about Space Jockey is that it's completely mindless... it just goes on and on, there's no goal (not even levels to clear), no idea that you're accomplishing anything. It can be fun for a while, but it gets old pretty fast. I liked it better when I was a kid.
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From their FAQ page:
Any controller that uses the Atari digital joystick standard will work with these products. Included are the Atari 130/400/800/2600, Commodore 64, Sega Master System, and others. Analog controllers like the paddles are not supported.
So, it's not quite a Stelladaptor replacement (since the SA supports paddles).
Also, no mention of the 7800... Am willing to bet it won't support both buttons (neither does the SA).
The Colecovision and Intellivision adaptors are cool though... too bad there's no 5200 one.
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I'm in the process of fixing this. I was thinking about the keypress fix, but once the loop starts, it blocks the eventhandler. It almost needs to be in a thread, so the event code can run at the same time. I'll probably just make it so there can't be an infinite loop. Since what it's searching is finite, it has to end sometime ...
Hmm, can you not do something like...
int done = 0, aborted = 0; SDL_Event e; while(!done) { if(SDL_PollEvent(&e) && e.type == SDL_KEYDOWN) { // could check for a specific keypress here, or just abort on any keypress aborted = 1; done = 1; } else { // emulate/disassemble one instruction, set done=1 if it matches the "runto" string } } if(aborted) { print("aborted due to keypress"); } else { // string was found, do whatever with it } -
This one's been bugging me for a while. If I type "runto xxx" in the debugger but it never encounters xxx, Stella seems to enter an infinite loop that I can't break out of, and I need to kill Stella and restart it. Or, at least if there's a way to break out, I don't know how.
Ugh. I was never happy with how "runto" works, and meant to get rid of it or fix it someday.
What it's actually doing is disassembling each instruction as it's executed, and doing a string compare... which is slow, and can get stuck, like you said.
One idea might be to have the "runto" loop check for a keypress while it's running... which will probably make it even slower, but at least you won't get stuck in an infinite loop.
Question for you: When you use "runto", are you just giving it an address (using it like a quickie breakpoint), or are you using stuff like "runto RTS" to run until the next RTS instruction?
Oops, you're right. How do you suggest to deal with this? Not in terms of code, but of functionality. How would another debugger work?
That's a good question... as far as I know, no other debugger has anything that works quite like it
There are quite a few things in the debugger that need to be updated. Unfortunately, we might be losing our debugger guy, so updates in that area will take longer ...
You aren't losing me permanently... just my build hosting.
Though I might have to disappear for a while if I don't find another job pretty quick. No money = no 'net access at all, and maybe no place to live either.
I'll get it sorted out at some point, though. I always do...
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What really killed the game was the mentality of console gamers at the time (they were pretty much about "plug the game in and start playing" when it came to consoles. Few if any read the instructions.)
...and this is different from the current mentality of console gamers how, exactly?
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]Don't forget Ms. Pac Man... actually, the VCS version is quite good, much better than her brother's game!
Her *brother*?!
Does this mean the old Saturday morning Pac-Man cartoon was set in Alabama? 'Cause she was his wife, too
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- The Goonies has different music on tape
Hm. Different POKEY music, you mean, or did it actually use the tape for audio playback?
So in most cases (all cases?), the disk version is preferable to the cassette?
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No, absolutely not.
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No, no, no!
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No no no NO, you're wrong here!
Uhhh, settle down, Beavis
Well, there's really nothing interesting. The 32K 5200 ROM image you are all talking about, is just an overdump. If you split the ROM into four 8K-sized blocks, then the first two will be identical, as well as the last two. So, this 32K image contains only 16K of data, doubled in a wicked way.
Yup, you're absolutely right. I was just checking the first 16K against the second 16K, which is why I thought it was a true 32K ROM... I don't know much about the 5200, never heard of that type of "wicked" doubling.
And here's the good dump of the 5200 Monty.
Many thanks.
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So... what other games came in multiple different versions like this?
All I can think of right now are Dig-Dug, Qix, and Centipede, all 3 of which came out on the 8-bit, and later on were rewritten for the 5200 with different/better graphics... then unofficially ported back to the 8-bit. Well, and there are several versions of Pac-Man (with and without intermissions, and with different dot-eating "waka waka" sounds).
I never bought or copied any games on tape back then, were there any games whose cassette versions were significantly different from the disk and/or cart versions? I pretty much retired my 1010 recorder the day I got my first disk drive (well, after I got done copying all my programs to disk, anyway).
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Every home version of Tetris sucked. It never played like the arcade game with higher levels having some blocks already in the playfield to start. It just got faster and faster.
Tengen Tetris for the NES is a port of the arcade game, which is why it was the only one that didn't suck...
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I seems to remember Nintendo and Atari butting heads in the courts for:
Also the other way around: Nintendo sued Tengen (aka Atari) over their Tetris for the NES. Too bad, it was a lot nicer than Nintendo's NES Tetris.
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And I spy with my eyes a rare 20th Anniversary Macintosh.
How do you use the fire button on your dual rig when the coat hanger seems to be blocking it?
Bet he uses the other one, the white one mounted on top of the stick. That's the only one I use when I play with a Wico (does anyone actually use the red one? Never seen anybody do that...)
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I can think of KC Munchkin and Robot Tank.
Is that it?
Didn't Imagic get sued over Demon Attack? Was that Atari, or someone else?
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Nice work Urchlay! Works great on my 800, using MyPicoDOS as the game loader! (Well it loads. Haven't really had time to play it yet).
I'd be very interested if you do re-fit this game as a 16K cart image and if you do learn anything new about the 32K 5200 code.
This game is new to me, not surprising as my collection was very small. The catchy music and familiar play style take me right back to 1979 (when I purchased this 800).
Unfortunately that one *only* works with MyPicoDOS... better grab the fixed version. Hopefully not too many people downloaded the broken one.
I've always loved this game, even the buggy version I started out with in nineteen eighty-mumble. You should definitely give it the playing time it deserves
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Not the same file... yours is the Utopia prototype, mine is the Parker Bros. released version.
I downloaded the one in the forum post, I thought that was the one that would not load? These are the segments that were in that file:
,,,(many lines of wacky segments deleted)
I repacked it into a single segment EXE (0xe00 - 0xbfff) with no crazy init routines.
Wow, you're right, that was a crazy bin file... I thought you were talking about the one I posted earlier (in this thread, as montezumas_revenge_disk_release_bin_conversion.zip above). It also wouldn't load (except with MyPicoDOS for some reason).
So... What did you see that's wrong with the way I segmented it?
We are talking about different files, if you point me at the file your having trouble with I'll see if I can fix it.
Actually, I seem to have fixed it myself. The run address is bogus, though I still don't understand why it works as a boot disk. It always helps to actually disassemble the code you're working with, instead of blindly trusting the boot header
Here's the fixed version:
montezumas_revenge_disk_release_bin_conversion_FIXED.zip
I tested this one with DOS 2.0S, DOS 2.5, Fenders 3-sector bootloader, and MyPicoDOS. The only screwy thing is that it locks up if you press System Reset under either Atari DOS (there's code that sets DOSVEC, which is supposed to make it survive a reset, but it ain't working). I may fiddle with it some more, but probably not tonight.
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Your attachment does not work. Tried to load it as a Cartridge and as a EXE... No worky.
I only ever tested it with MyPicoDOS... just now I tested with DOS 2.0S and Fenders, and it won't run with either of those (and I don't really understand why).
The segmentation in that EXE file is nutty. I don't think it should actually work.
Here is a repacked version of the same file. A little larger but should be more exe loader friendly.
Not the same file... yours is the Utopia prototype, mine is the Parker Bros. released version.
...but you're right, something's wrong with my file, and I don't understand what.
I've got 3 segments, like so:
$FF, $FF (exe header)
$00, $70, $FF, $AF (load address $7000, end address $AFFF)
(...16384 bytes of data, the actual game code...)
$E0, $02, $E1, $02 (load address $02E0, aka RUNAD, where DOS will run the program after it's loaded)
$3C, $70 (2 bytes of data that get loaded at RUNAD, the actual run address, $703C)
$E2, $02, $E3, $02 (load address $02E2, aka INITAD, DOS will JSR thru this vector for the init routine)
$4E, $70 (2 bytes of data that get loaded at INITAD, $704E)
The run and init vectors came straight from the boot header in the boot sector of the .atr image...
So... What did you see that's wrong with the way I segmented it? I'm working from memory and from the OS equates list... if I've screwed it up, I don't even understand how... but you're right, it won't work with DOS 2.0, so *something* is screwy. Help!
...and I wonder how come MyPicoDOS has no problem with it. Hm.
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While the version Steve uploaded was definetly "good enough" for me, this version is clearly different and more finished (in the sense that it does seem to mimic the 5200 version completely, and I'll take your word that it removes some nasty bugs).
I was just looking at a hexdump of the 5200 ROM... want to know what the extra 16K of ROM is used for. More levels?
I imagine they went the cart direction originally under the assumption that the 5200 would be the same kind of hit as the 2600 was, and so designing for THAT platform dictated their size and media constraints.
It's totally bass-ackwards, because the original Utopia version was 32K, and so is the 5200 version... they cut it down to 16K to create an A8 cart that they never released, then bloated it back up to its original size, but didn't put the music/boss/bat back in? I'm sure each step down that road made sense at the time, and it only looks funny in hindsight.
I guess the real "gold" version would be to convert the bin I uploaded into a cart image, since that's what PB originally intended. You're probably right, the disk release was probably just cheaper/quicker to do...
To turn it into a cart, I'd have to disassemble and re-org the code (binary/bootdisk loads at $7000, the cart port starts at $A000), probably could do without much trouble. Hmm...
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One of my friends who visits regularly came over today. Well, I had to have her play the 2600. I think the main game that got her was Warlords.
My hat is off to you... anyone who introduces a girl to the Atari increases the Atari-playing female population, and that can only be a good thing
(OK, you didn't say "girl", for all I know she's old enough to be my grandma, but it's still a good deed)
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I'm not positive. There is a lot of conflicting information on this particular title.
You said it, brother!
This is my understanding:
The version generally refered to as the "Proto" has enhanced graphics (like cobwebs and containers in the walls), as well as a Bat that will come and take Panama Joe away if you remain immobile for too long on any level. It starts off with a splash screen that displays the Montezuma's Revenge title, has a far different map layout, and has a "boss" (Montezuma) at the end who stomps his feet... and is incomplete and can't actually be finished.
Right, that's not the PB version at all, and wasn't what I meant when I said "proto" (though you're right, it *is* a prototype). I think of this one the "Utopia proto".
The other version looks like what Steve has uploaded here. It is commonly called the "Parker Brothers version". It has no splash screen, there is no extra screen displayed when you lose a man, your men and score always appear in the upper left corner of the display, there is no bat, no cobwebs, no barrles, and no boss, and when you get to the END of the pyramid, you'll find poles that you slide down while collecting gems, at the end of which, you end up at the beginning all over again, but on a higher level with a different map.
Right, there are (at least) two versions by PB.
One is the cart version, which is an unreleased proto of the game. It plays like the release, but it has the buggy room and the sound effect is missing when you kill something with the sword. There may be more than one version of this: I'm not sure if the two .bin conversions I have are the same (other than the "cracked by" titles), and not sure whether either one is the same as the ROM image from atarimania.com... but they all have the buggy room and the missing sword sound. I think of this one (or two) as "the PB proto".
The other is the disk version, the actual release by PB. I've only ever seen it as an .atr image (and I first found out about it from a thread you started a while back, I think). It's a boot disk with no DOS or filesystem. I think of this one as "the PB release".
What I thought you were looking for (and what I've been looking for) is a standalone binary load file conversion of the official bootdisk release.
The *original* proto version exists as an .xex file, and is unwinnable.
Utopia proto.
...it makes me really sad: it's the nicest one. I'm watching the title screen repeat while I type this, and I wish PB had just finished up this version instead of stripping it down to fit a 16K cart.
The PB version was released on the 8 bit as a disk, and subsequently converted to a .atr image file, which is widely distributed. It repeates like an arcade game, and has no actual ending.
PB disk release... doesn't have the bugs. As far as I've been able to determine, this one's never been made available as a bin (xex, or whatever) file. *That* is what I thought you were asking about: a bin version of the PB disk release atr image.
A *proto* of the PB version that has a bug may ALSO be out there.
Yep, and someone posted it to this thread
I'm going to play through this version and at least get to level 2. If I can get that far, I'll report back. It may be that my pattern doesn't hit the buggy room (I have a general pattern I follow, and I skip some of the rooms because the risk outweighs the rewards).
My pattern doesn't hit the buggy room except when I forget where I'm going, but that's from years of playing the buggy PB proto and not knowing about the released version.
I'm willing to bet the 5200 version doesn't have the buggy room, or you'd have seen threads on here asking for a fix...
In either case, Steve, thanks! Your after-sale support is unrivaled in the retro community... and I'm going to plug you once again...
EVERYONE who has an Atari 8 bit XE or XL should have the MyIDE multicart. It is the most versatile, powerful, and affordable multicart solution for retro atari gaming available... but *all* of Steve's products are top tier stuff, and his support for what he sells goes far beyond what I've come to expect from most merchants.
I second your plug! I've got a MyIDE+Flash and his version of the SIO2PC, and they're both amazing.
To be honest, I don't know that these bugs you mention are not just part of all of the cart images (possibly doing the same thing on the released 5200 version of the game). Otherwise, this version seems very playable to me. I think you may be confused about what the difference between the versions are.
Well, there's a good reason the bugs are part of all the Atari 8-bit cart images: PB never released the game on cart. Any cart image you find is a leaked PB proto (though I'm not sure whether more than one version exists).
As for the 5200, I need to try it out and see whether the bugs are there. Bet they're not though. For one thing, the 5200 ROM image is 32K (the buggy A8 cart images are 16K). Potentially, the 5200 version might have more levels or something...
Anything else I seem to be confused about, I'm not. I may still be *wrong*, but at least I'm *sure* about it
Does that make sense?
Think so.
Now, one more wrinkle...
Edit: removed attachment, as it was broken. See my other post below for a fixed version.
That's my own conversion (just now finished) of the PB released .atr, to a binary load file. For me, it's the "holy grail" version of the game, *assuming* I didn't mess it up (only play-tested it for 5-10 minutes).
Weird thing is that the boot disk only has 16K of data (128 SD sectors). So why couldn't PB have released this version on cart instead? That was their original plan... which must have changed for some reason. If they'd been planning a disk release all along, they wouldn't have removed the title screen, bat, boss, etc., I wouldn't think.
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Here is the 16k Monty exe. Its just the cartridge image with an exe header.
I didn't see any rom overwrites but they might be hidden later in the game.
Steve
Unfortunately the cart version is a proto that's got a couple of nasty bugs. This is the same as the version I downloaded from a BBS back in my 300 baud days... it has one particular room on level 1 that basically crashes the game (keeps you from ever being able to pick up or use items again, making it impossible to finish the game). There are other differences, too (some missing/different sounds, and the proto level 1 seems harder than the released version's level 1).
Paranoid's asking about the released disk version, which someone posted a link to, above... but he wants a binary load version (and so do I). I'm about to try my hand at converting it, but I dunno how successful I'll be.
...Actually, he said "the 5200 version", but I'm almost 100% sure the 8-bit disk version is the same as the 5200 version. Paranoid, is that right?
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Try this one. I can't promise I found all the protection checks, I don't really have time to play test it a lot.
Steve
Damn, that was quick! Many thanks...
I played through the first couple of levels, it seems OK. Most likely, the protection that writes to the cart address space only happens once, when the cart runs from its run address. That's when it crashes with the binary I made last night. I doubt they'd bother to add further ones that happen some time after you've finished a few levels...
Out of curiosity, what tool(s) did you use for this? I was going to give this a shot, was planning to modify Atari++ to have it detect writes to ROM. Looks like I don't have to now (though I still might... sometimes I reinvent the wheel because I want to understand how wheels work).
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Sweet Dreams of PAL mystique's
in Atari 2600
Posted
She definitely sounds like a keeper