goatdan
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Posts posted by goatdan
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Which vendor was not allowed back and why? I know the MAME cabs weren't there claiming...oh we gotta make sure they're LEGAL yadda yadda yadda. Sheesh, there was one of those multi-game cabs in the arcade downstairs...unfortunately there was a problem with the display malfunctioning.The multi-game cabs are actually legally licensed. We had to ensure that anything that wasn't legally licensed wasn't there because there is interest from large, active, gaming companies in coming to the show, and MAME cabinets are not legal, so we cannot and will not support selling them at the show, as it becomes a legal liability to us if we provide a forum to sell them.
Having said that, I'm not going to discuss which vendor we opted to not ask back, but suffice to say that both Gary and I are very concerned about quality and backing up sales, and when we find out how that isn't done, we do not want that person or people ever associated with the event again.
Finally, about the dates -- yup, March it is. At first, I had the same worry about losing people due to it being March instead of the "usual" time, however we made the move for a number of reasons, the biggest one being that we were conflicting every year horribly with graduations and things like that regarding vendors. Moving to March will avoid those days. Also, there is SO much less going on at the end of March -- we were competing against various festivals, summer movies, theme parks, and so on to get the attention of the local market. In March in Wisconsin, we just don't have much going on. I think this will result in an increase in local attendance possibilities (and honestly, well over 90% of our attendance drives within easy single day-trip distance). The final positive point is that March will decrease associated show costs (like advertising, rental fees, etc) which will help us invest more money in bringing in better and better stuff.
Like I said, I was really worried about it at first too, but I think it turned out to be a great idea!
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I think the way the website was done this was kind of rushed, it missed out some detailsof the show compared to last year where it had more details. ie. last year they had the layout
up this year they didn't.
Dan, I'm sorry that you believe that the show was run poorly even though you didn't attend. A few points that I would like to tell you based on your comments:
1) The reason the Jagfest shirts weren't everywhere was that they sold out pretty much immediately on Saturday. You didn't provide us with shirts just for selling. Max was wearing one all day on Saturday. If you would like this to have been done differently, you need to do it next time.
2) There are two people running the web site -- Gary and I. You didn't get to attend the show. Over 1600 people did this year, and I didn't hear anyone complain about the web site. We did what we needed to do on it, and focused on areas of larger concern, like ensuring that vendors and exhibitors knew all the details. Yes, it would have been nice to have endless hours to work on the site, but both Gary and I also have regular jobs.
We'll see what we decide to change in the future, but your two complaints that you keep having are both non-issues how I see it.
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NOTE TO EVENT CO-ORDINATORS: NEXT TIME MOVE THE F---ING NOISY GAMES 50 FT. AWAY FROM THE SPEAKING AREA!!! Elvira pinball distracted me the whole time, I'd think others were also bothered. I nearly unplugged it, & offered someone $5 to do it too. That's the only real gripe I have (besides the Little Leaguers running all over the place, but I digress).There is a LOT of balance that goes into figuring out how the show goes, and honestly we can't please everyone all the time. We actually moved the speaking area pretty much daily up until the event. We wanted to have it in the middle of 'the action' this year, although the noise was noted as a problem. Quite frankly though, I think the speakers turning up the volume would've been easy enough as a way to fix it. We don't want to close it off to the world like we have done in the past, but we also want people to be able to hear everything...
Well, there is always next year... or should I say, nine months from now! Hope to see you all there!
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Actually, just wanted to add to this that Marty was correct. We basically had the same amount of arcade and pins as last year, but we spaced them differently which made them seem like a little less. We had 31 pins in the main hall (4 sold and left on Saturday) and 14 in the tournament hall, and 24 videos (1 sold and left on Saturday) and 4 in the tournament hall. We were down on arcade machines due to us not allowing one of the vendors back from last year, although 45 overall was only 7 pins shy of last year, and Pins-Plus who had brought 28 in 2006 was only able to bring 12 this year, so I think that we did pretty good overall there.
It's hard to get people to bring pins to a show. If anyone has ever tried moving one around, there is a LOT of work involved, so I can't blame anyone for not being able to bring stuff.
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1)Do i need to bring some sort of bag or something to carry the the stuff i buy at the vendors both? I assume they will have bags or boxes for anything i get but i just want to be sure.Most vendors have bags. They also give you a goodie bag on the way in, so you can store a few items in there. I brought a bag last year, but that's because I had items for trade in it.
2)Cash or Credit Card? Which would be better to use at the show?Cash, cash, and more cash. I don't think that many vendors will be able to process Credit Cards this year after the PayPal fiasco last year. Even if they get that worked out, it seems silly to pay for things like $5 cartridges with a credit card. I recommend hording away a little extra money until the MGC. That way you'll have plenty of cash to take with you to the show.
Unfortunately there aren't too many places that accept credit card at the show. The GOAT Store will, and we will also accept it for merchandise and stuff like that, but I haven't been able to get anything back from PayPal, even though I did attempt to contact them :/
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Hey everyone,
I just wanted to confirm that the hotel is out of rooms. We had a block equal to the total amount of rooms we had last year, and apparently it sold out about a week ago, which is amazing to me since we haven't even begun to make some of our major announcements. Unfortunately, there is some other things going on in the area, so we are looking to find a hotel that is willing to run a shuttle service to and from them for people who wish to attend the event and do not have vehicles from which to get there with. We hope to have news within the week, but it has been a little difficult to get.
About tickets -- you can buy them at the door, but if you preorder them, you will get one of the collectors pins for the event for free. We are only making 250 of these pins, and if you don't get one with a presale, they will be $5.00 at the show, for as long as they last. We're planning on doing this as a series every year, so if you want to get the first one, I think that you can't lose with pre-ordering tickets!
Hope to see you all at the show!
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If you take the Chicago loop around Chicago instead of through it, traffic generally is continually moving. And going 80 MPH in the 55 MPH zone is barely keeping up with the flow of traffic, so if you're okay with that, you can easily shave some time off that. When it gets busier, that area drops to like 55 MPH, so it doesn't really delay you as much as it just isn't as fast as the other times.
Hope you'll come! This year should be incredible!
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Not sure about that. It was a fairly limited system with appaling controllers and a styling that was at least 5 years out of date. It was definite competition for the 3DO, sure, but the PS1 and Saturn just left it standing.
I think Ridge Racer was the death knell for the Jaguar. The arcade finally came home and the war was won.
The controller argument I've never truly understood. Most people say that they hated them because of the size, but they are surprisingly close to a lot of controllers that came after it. Sure, Atari had the only controller with a number pad, and I can understand how some people might not like it, but it did work well for certain games like Iron Soldier and various FPS. In fact, there was a MUCH bigger uproar over the N64 controllers when those came out, and I think that arguing that they were worse is pretty easy (the analog joystick, which was used by everything is in the most uncomfortable position while the d-pad, which is barely used ever is on the right.) The controller could have easily been overcome... if the system had good games that people wanted to play.
It has been proven that if a console comes out with games they want to play that it doesn't matter if it is a little behind the times. Witness the power of the Xbox versus the PS2 where the same argument can be used -- the PS2 controller just wasn't as well equipped any more as a controller with analog triggers -- but the PS2 ultimately had the games that people wanted to play.
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I missed a lot of this, so I might as well bring it back up for a few seconds, since my post was referred to and I never defended it...
Again, the Jag offered very little to convince player to purchase a Jag over one of the half a billion other options on the market. That's simply the way it was. Nintendo changed the market forever when they introduced franchise characters. You either got with the program, or you got out of the market.
No denying that.
Rayman could have been a good mascot. However, he belonged to Ubisoft, not Atari. If Atari was smart, they would have gotten their hooks into Ubisoft and ensured that Rayman was theirs. (Much like Sony did with Naughty Dog and Psygnosis.) Unfortunately, there was a very small window between when Rayman was released for the Jag and the Playstation/Saturn. (~2 months if wikipedia is to be believed.) Atari would have had to be more proactive if they wanted to make Rayman "their" mascot.Actually, Rayman came out of the PS1 / Saturn first, and then the Jaguar slightly after that. Rayman was originally stated to be a Jaguar exclusive, but the thing that many Jag fans believe is that Sony and Sega paid a ton to get him off the Jaguar and on their consoles first, but the truth is probably that Ubisoft saw the writing on the wall for Atari and figured they could make more money by putting him on systems that would have larger installed user bases.
Cybermorph really isn't that bad a pack-in game.Compared to Super Mario World and Sonic the Hedgehog, it's downright atrocious. Think about it from the perspective of a consumer in 1993. They could purchase an SNES for $199 or less and get Mario World for free, purchase a Genesis for a similar price and get Sonic, -OR- they could purchase a Jaguar for $250 and get Cybermorph.
Actually, here is the one place where I do differ from you a bit -- Cybermorph was a good game in many ways to show off the power of the Jaguar. The reason why is that there had never been a game like it -- Cybermorph introduced the go anywhere, do whatever you want concept in a console game. Before that point, 3D games were all like Virtua Racer, Virtua Fighter, Star Fox and so on -- there was a goal, and you had to maintain that goal. Console first person shooter like Doom hadn't made their way to the PC yet, and they still had a distinct end to the level. Cybermorph was something completely new where you could fly where ever and do whatever you wanted while exploring.
Cybermorph hasn't held up against these other games as well because being a complete pioneer, while it was good, the innovations and changes that followed it quickly allowed people to forget about it. Heck, by the time BattleMorph rolled around, there were lots more objectives and things to do. The honeymoon period for Cybermorph was very short, and I think the biggest problem that Atari really had with it was that they packed in Cybermorph for far too long. Had Atari decided to sell Cybermorph with consoles for only the first three months, and then switch to a different property, it probably would've worked a lot better.
For the majority of consumers, the choice was a bit of a no-brainer. Especially for the parent purchasing the consoles for their kids, who were more likely to warm up to the colorful cartoon characters than some dark-looking game with a bald, green lady as the only character.
I can't deny this. And that was part of the reason Cybermorph aged so quickly. With no characters to latch onto or care about, Cybermorph didn't have the same sort of buzz about it that something like Mario does even years later.
The problem is that there IS no definition for "bits" in the context of game systems.There's not a clear definition in advertising. There *is* a clear definition (as clear as these things can get, anyway) in the technology industry. Atari could get away with advertising it as 64-bit, but that doesn't magically confer 64-bit performance advantages. Goatdan's point (the one I was responding to) was that the Jaguar was 64-bit, yet didn't show 4 times the performance. Yet that is easily falsifiable, as there were no General Purpose processors in the Jaguar that were 64 architectures.
See, this is the part of this whole argument that I don't agree with -- The technology industry has clear definitions of things for their own purposes like manufacturing chips, but when it comes to game systems... who knows? The reason that I believe the Jaguar to be 64-bit is that you could pass a 64-bit command over the bus at once. Now, regardless of where this command was doing or if it was even practical to use (it wasn't), to me and to many people who program, the ability to pass a 64-bit command makes the machine capable of handling 64-bits.
Advertising a system as having 64-bit "advantages" doesn't give it any advantages, but realistically the advantage that having a larger bus gives a person isn't necessarily the most important spec anyway. This is where the marketing for Atari went wrong, and was the point I was trying to make -- consumers were taught to believe that 64 bit meant that the graphics would be four times better than the SNES, and eight times better than the NES based on what Atari was advertising, and when it didn't look like that, consumers automatically believed that it was because Atari had lied about the bits that it used. This problem only grew when Atari used the bits argument to say that they were twice as powerful as the PS1 and Saturn, when it was obvious that they were not.
It didn't matter what size the chips were, it was just the reality of how it looked that mattered.
Also, the problem with game systems is that while you do have strong and firm rules about chips and all that fun stuff, what does define a game system? Is it the graphics chip as many systems would have us believe (If I recall right -- Genesis, TurboGrafx, Jaguar, Dreamcast, N64)? Or is it the main processor? And if it is the main processor, doesn't that make the Intellivision half the power of the Xbox? Well, obviously not -- because there is so much more that goes into it. The fact was and is that Atari's use of the 64-bit claim was just as justified as many of the claims that came before it, so saying that Atari couldn't call themselves a 64-bit system when it was already a well established rule to use the graphics power as the benchmark in advertising.
So, while the clear definition in the technology industry may say to you that the Jaguar was only 16 or 32 bits, the clear definition in the gaming industry based on what came before it states that the Jaguar was 64 bit.
And... at the end of the day... who cares? As I originally stated, the Jaguar didn't have the power that Atari advertised it as having, and the system suffered because Atari kept advertising it in that way. Had Atari brought out some franchise characters, or some big exclusive titles, or some peripherals like the Jaguar VR, Atari might have 'won the war'. But Atari instead focused on an at best flawed advertising campaign, and the Jaguar never got off the ground because of it.
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What do you like the most? Based on your thoughts, it would be easier to recommend something.
My vote based on my tastes would be for IS2, although I didn't much care for the first one. If not that, I'd look at Ultra Vortek and I*War, as I really enjoyed both of those. DOOM is good, but I just don't play it that often. Fight For Life I wanted to love, and played the heck out of it, but it doesn't really stand up as a fighter at all. The only thing that I found interesting was seeing how incomplete of a game it was.
I'm not sure where you're planning on getting games from too, but if you are just going for games, you should shop around a bit more. I've got both I*War and Ultra Vortek in stock for $36.00 (cart only), and I know there are some other places that carry games where you could probably get them for about the same price too.
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...date for MGC...
WANTED
June 9th and 10th
I'm pretty certain that Jagfest there will be pretty darn fun this year, it's 10th anniversary in the states! Hope to see you there!
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Heh, I always come across these posts for some reason. The whole "bit" thing was / is really something that I have long felt was stupid. "Bits" matter very little in the grand scheme of things. The Intellivision was 16 bit, but it can't hold a candle to the graphics of the SNES. The Jaguar was 64 bit, but it sucks compared to the graphics on the N64 (at least the 3D stuff). The Dreamcast was 128 bit, but the 32 bit Xbox sure looked better than it.
The bit argument was made by a bunch of companies who wanted to set themselves apart by using a stat which they could brag was better than the competition. This all came crashing down with the Jaguar, which is why many believe it wasn't a 64-bit machine -- because the jump from 16 to 64 should've made the Jaguar four times as powerful as the SNES, and games like Donkey Kong Country were clearly equal on a power footing to the 2D Jaguar offerings, and games like Star Fox were nearly equal to things like Cybernaut for the Jaguar.
Then, when Sony and Sega brought out the Playstation and Saturn, Atari's continual trotting out the 64 bit fact when the other systems were so obviously better graphically just made people believe that they couldn't believe Atari.
Well, the Jaguar was 64 bit by definition. But it doesn't matter -- the architecture was made to be a 2D machine that would have been a step up from the systems of the day, along with some new 3D technology to make games like the Virtua series that Sega had been releasing in the arcades work well on the Jag. The problem was that the market wanted 3D games, and they wanted texture mapping which the Jaguar wasn't meant to handle. Had the Jaguar had more RAM or a better 3D graphics processor, perhaps it would've done better and people would've believed it was 64-bit. But instead, the other systems took that crown and ran with it.
Once the newest systems launched, the programmers wanted more graphical power, not more bits. So, gaming has stopped pushing the bit thing as it simply doesn't matter any more... and it basically never really did before either, at least, it only mattered in so far as what those higher bit chips were combined with.
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I do know how crazy it is to try doing everything, but we pride ourselves on being a site that caters toward collectors, and I do realize that there are a LOT of collectors who care.
On one hand, I don't plan on increasing prices for the most part, but if we do have certain rarities that are worth more, we will have to mark them fairly. For the most part, I don't see there being too much of a difference between them each, with the exception of certain ones -- like the Orange picture label Breakout from 1986, which I just haven't listed in the past.
I'm still deciding one way or another to do just the majors or the minors, but I'm leaning toward all right now, unless the polls change soon. Thanks!
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I'm working on updating a bunch of stuff with the GOAT Store, and one of the things that we have had a few people ask about is what label variations we have for certain carts. Currently, we don't list any games by their specific labels variations (unless they are called something else, like the Telegames versions of Atari carts) or by the manufacturer variations, like Coleco made Donkey Kong versus the Atari version of the same cart. I'm looking into making a major update in the near future, and I'm curious what collectors on here think would be best for a list in any store. Do you search for label variations, or is that just going too far?
Thanks!
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Thanks to all who have bought stuff, I lowered the prices on what remains a bit. See something you want? PM me!
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All right, I've got a bin full of stuff here that I really need to sell, so I've got my prices very low. I'm planning on posting this on a few message boards tonight and seeing what sells. On Thursday, I dump it all at a local resale shop for whatever I can get for it... so please spare me from that!
Here's the key -- if it says "box" it has a good box. If it says "inst" it has good instructions. If it says poor before either of these words, it means that something is screwed up with that item. If it doesn't have these words, the item comes without them.
Shipping will be priority for the US and I'll calculate it at the end. As always, order some stuff from the GOAT Store and this stuff ships free. I'll take PayPal or Money Order (or check if I know you). Any questions, PM me. First come, first served... I think that is it... Here goes:
Xbox
Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of the Cortex [Platinum Hits] (box, inst) - $2.50
Fable (box, inst) - $5 [sOLD]
Guy Game (box, inst) - $25 [sOLD]
Hobbit (box, inst) - $3
LA Rush (box, inst) - $5
Metal Slug 3 (box, inst) - $25 [sOLD]
Metal Slug 4 & 5 (box, inst) - $20 [sOLD]
MLB Slugfest 2003 (box, poor inst) - $1
Sonic Riders (box, inst) - $8
GameCube
Beach Spikers (box, inst) - $5
Def Jam: Fight for NY (box, inst) - $4 [sOLD]
Dragon's Lair 3D (box, inst) - $10
Geist (box, inst) - $12 [sOLD]
Luigi's Mansion (box, inst) - $8 [sOLD]
Mario Party 4 (box, inst) - $22
Metroid Prime (box, inst) - $3 [sOLD]
Resident Evil (box, inst) - $6 [sOLD]
Skies of Arcadia Legends (box, inst) - $20
Sonic Adventure DX (box) - $5
Sonic Gems (box, inst) - $10
Nintendo DS
Advance Wars: Dual Strike (box, inst) - $15
Dig Dug: Digging Strike (box, inst) - $9 [sOLD]
Kirby: Canvas Curse (box, inst) - $15
Meteos (box, inst) - $14
Mr. Driller: DS (box, inst) - $7 [sOLD]
Game Boy Advance
Aero the Acrobat - $2 [sOLD]
Chu Chu Rocket - $3 [sOLD]
Drill Dozer (box, inst) - $7
Final Fantasy I & II (box, inst) - $9
Final Fantasy Tactics (poor box, inst) - $14
Gunstar Super Heroes (box, inst) - $10
Lunar Legend (poor box, inst) - $20
Pac-Man Pinball (box, inst) - $4
Sigma Star Saga (box, inst) - $9
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Double Pack - $12
Game Boy Advance BOX ONLY (your choice $1.00 apiece or buy $10 worth of stuff, pick one free)
Astro Boy
Golden Sun: The Lost Age [sOLD]
Gumby Versus the Astrobots
Super Monkey Ball
N-Gage - Get these all for $60
Asphault Urban GT (inst)
Call of Duty (box, inst)
Elder Scrolls Travels: Shadow Key (box, inst)
FIFA Soccer 2004 (inst)
FIFA Soccer 2005 (inst)
FIFA Soccer 2005 (box, inst)
Ghost Recon: Jungle Storm (inst)
Marcel Desailly Pro Soccer (box, inst)
Operation Shadow (inst)
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (box, inst)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2004 (inst)
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I'm just amazed that vendors took PayPal, but not credit cards. That seems really odd to me. You'd think that they would both be equally difficult to set up at an expo, so why not do them both?Accepting PayPal is easy if you have internet access at a show. Accepting credit cards is pretty much impossible if you don't have a merchant account. I haven't looked into PayPal's "Payment Pro" credit card program yet.
Actually, as one of the very rare vendors who was accepting credit card (although stupidly not really advertising it), even with a proper merchant account, it is still a pain in the ass to set up "real world" credit carding, as it is a completely different process than regular ol' online credit card stuff.
Ironically, the only reason we didn't accept PayPal is the credit card system we created couldn't handle credit cards and PayPal. Because of this, it seems like we're one of the lucky few that didn't get flagged.
I'm guessing PayPal just saw a bunch of credit card transactions originating from the same place with a bunch of different numbers and accounts and tried shutting it all down. Stupid PayPal 
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For some reason, the game "Blocks2: Master of Blocks" (with the 2 being a "squared" logo) is left off. Ironic, as it is probably going to be in a race with Donk to be the next game after GOAT Games to make it to market!
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Only real negatives were things announced that didn't happen, but those were due to unforeseen problems.Yes, and I would like to apologize for those right now. I assume you are referring to the Midwest Video Championship, which I busted my ass to get together and invested in a game and a bunch of trophies for, but it turned out FAR too difficult when we didn't have any idea what games would be there (hard to announce how they will be scored without having any idea what they are) and then we had issues with them not functioning properly. At noon, we hadn't had any inquires, I was given an estimate of two to three hours before the tournament would be good to go, and we looked at the costs, the interest level, the fact we still didn't have rules and everything else and decided that it just didn't make sense.
Thanks for understanding though. Pulling the plug on that was probably one of the hardest decisions all weekend
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Glad to hear I am not the only one who got flagged. This is kind of a hassle. By the way, what was the name of that pinball machine where you have to shoot pin balls up from two guys and try to shoot down invaders ala Space Invaders? That game was fun as hell.That's a game called Rapid Fire. It isn't really a pinball, it isn't really an arcade game. It's sorta in the middle there. Bally did some weird stuff, but it is very cool. I spent a lot of time with one of those machines attempting to fix it at one point in my life.
I forgot to count that one in my total overall count by the way, so I guess one more.
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Laarger inventory of machines set to free play, for one. You didn't have a shabby selection, but boy, when that nostlgia kicks in, you want MORE MORE MORE!As far as shows like this are concerned, they had a fantastic selection of games (and about 100 of them). More than I've seen at any show that's not dedicated to arcade games. The only shows I've seen with more games are California Extreme (400+ machines) and the Texas Pinball Festival (over 100 machines), and these are both dedicated arcade events. I just wish I had time to play some of the games at this year's show! Participating in the tournaments would have been fun as well..
By my records, we had:
52 arcade video machines
49 pinball machines
1 golf game.
For a total of 102 games there.
Pretty impressive, I do say
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I'm going to have a webcam setup at the show, I set it up tonight on one of my computers. You can bookmark the page here:http://www.atariage.com/features/shows/mgc...iew/webcam.html
It is running at the moment--you can watch me (sometimes) as I prepare for the show.
That's awesome. Will you have an archive of these? If so, I'd like to get a copy
See you very soon!
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Yes it does. Free wi-fi throughout. And there will be two DS tournaments too
That's good to know, will it be available in the expo hall? If so, maybe I can setup a webcam on a computer and also have the same computer setup so people can post in the forum from the show.
..Al
It was announced in March or something, right after I walked all over the hotel with a laptop testing it everywhere. As far as I could tell, it is available *everywhere* at the hotel, and it works great. We're planning on setting up the GOAT Store so we can take credit cards with it
I'd love to do a webcam, but we don't have the space. If you would, that would be awesome! -
Yes it does. Free wi-fi throughout. And there will be two DS tournaments too
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Who won the Wii or Kangaroo arcade machine at the MGC?
in Events
Posted
They were announced at the show, and will soon be up on the site... The winners were:
Xbox 360 Game of the Year
Winner: Gears of War
Runner-Up: Guitar Hero 2
Wii Game of the Year
Winner: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Runner-Up: Wii Sports
PlayStation 3 Game of the Year
Winner: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Runner-Up: Resistance: Fall of Man
Nintendo DS Game of the Year
Winner: New Super Mario Bros.
Runner-Up: Elite Beat Agents
PSP Game of the Year
Winner: Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories
Runner-Up: Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters
Pinball Machine of the Year
Winner: Family Guy
Runner-Up: Spider-Man
Arcade Machine of the Year
Winner: House of the Dead 4
Runner-Up: Virtua Fighter 5
Retro Revival of the Year
Winner: Final Fantasy III for the Nintendo DS
Runner-Up: Pac-Man Collection for the Atari 7800
Console of the Year
Winner: Wii
Runner-Up: Nintendo DS
Future Classic Award
Winner: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Runner-Up: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess for Wii