goatdan

I won't need to know for a while yet. I'm tossing around the idea now. Before it becomes reality, I need to actually build my workbench in my garage, which is at the tail end of a to do list that is about 50 items deep right now. I only brought it up now thanks to the interest. I was actually thinking about announcing it when we released the "new, improved" GOAT Store later this summer (probably end up July), but this way people on here have the scoop first

To Australia would be about $30.00, it seems There is the possibility of putting it in a rather large envelope and sending it that way. I think I have some envelopes that one would fit in. That would probably make shipping closer to $15.00.

Dark Knight Games never made any of their own products. They did sell two different joysticks through their site for the Jaguar -- the buggy Flight Stick that they were planning on selling about 100, but only had about 15 made because the company making them realized they didn't work on all models of the system, and the Team 13 / GOAT Store stick add-on, which was essentially a joystick sticking off the D-Pad of the pads. There were about 40 of those sold.

Bingo! There are two reasons I wouldn't consider any of the recently released Jaguar controllers "third party" controllers -- because they all cannibalized other controllers (even the JAMMA Joysticks we made ate them) and because none of them came out in high quantities or were manufactured for people. All of the Joystick / Rotary revisions came out as hobbiest projects. Basically, how I look at it is like this with all systems: Homebrew - Cannibalizes existing parts to make new thing, usually made by hand. 3rd Party - Uses all own parts, made by a company. By this, the Joysticks we made, those flight sticks, the rotary controllers... all homebrew. Some were totally excellent, but they were all still homebrew. No problem about that post by the way. Like I said, it was by memory (although looking at it again now, it seems right) and I'm glad I finally got to post it somewhere

The cases are made of plastic. They would still not have any option to use the number pad. To make a long story short, to do so would be extremely hard and make it cost quite a bit more. Besides, the intent is for games like Raiden and Defender, not for games like Iron Soldier and Doom.

Thanks for the heads up The quick version of this is that we stopped making the controllers because as much as I liked them, the official arcade parts were costing a ton. When the parts that you use to make the joystick cost about $50.00 for the standard and $60.00 for the LX, and you have to spend a few hours putting it together, and you're only selling them for $59.90 / $69.90, as you can tell it simply doesn't make sense to keep doing that... That having been said, there is a small chance that we *may* be offering one last chance at our joysticks at some point in the future. The thing is, I personally want one, and I never got around to making myself one. In a few months when I've finished the workbench in my garage and have a little bit of time, I was thinking about making myself one. The only problem is that I would need controllers and I would need people to be willing to at least mostly pre-pay for them because of the absurdly high cost of parts. What would interest in this be? The price would probably be around $70.00 again, but I would need controller "donations," or $85ish without. When I do this, I'll probably fire up the 2600 controller line up too. The 2600 controllers would be about $50.00 without 3DO controller donation (I need a specific type...) or $45.00 with, and I would probably just do the LX version (two buttons) of them all. If I open this up, prepayments would be something in the neighborhood of $50 for a Jaguar JAMMA LX and $40 for a 2600 JAMMA LX. I know the prices are quite high at the moment, but I stuck them there because I would rather be able to knock them down than have them get higher now and maybe take some off the top. I would need probably 10 orders to make this a worthwhile project. So, if you're interested post here and I'll start looking into the parts again

I haven't re-hooked up my NUON ever since it stopped playing movies It's the reason I ended up with an Xbox, and while I liked Tempest 3000, Merling Racing and Ballistic, I wasn't too keen on Freefall or Space Invaders. All of my NUON games are sitting out right now though, begging me to play them again. I agree with what everyone has said about Freefall. It really could be a sweet game concept, but boy did they mess that game up. I am also in the camp that liked Tempest 2000 a lot more than 3000. And, while Merlin Racing was good, I didn't find it to be that great. If Microsoft licensed the rights for Tempest like VM Labs did with 3000, it could happen. And holy hell... Tempest in HIGH DEF?!? It would really make me want a 360... but it would probably be about the only reason beyond Neon that would make me want one.

Wow, I've got pretty much the exact same story going on here... but it also involves convincing the wife that the entire GOAT Store needs to go into our house. Actually, she is rather accepting of everything, as long as it is out of view for the most part... I'd suggest just claiming the basement as your territory, and then making it rock. That's what I plan on doing Anywho, I'll probably keep my collection forever, or most of it. As soon as I can get the basement finished a little better at our house, I intend on having all my games downstairs, and I'm already making lists in my head of which Jaguar games I want to play. Since my collection is essentially complete, I've been collecting for the Dreamcast lately, which I'm pretty sure will be the last system I collect for... and my collection for it is at about 95% of what I'm looking for

EA seems to do that with a lot of their games. They purchase a popular franchise or license, make a quick game out of it and then sell it as quickly as possible. The Lord of the Rings games were absolutely horrendous, and the single reason I won't buy anything else with the EA seal on it. It isn't quality -- it's mindless updates. Burnout will be the next big EA franchise to bite the bullet I think. It's really sad too -- there are so many things that could be done with the many, many awesome series they have if they were in the hands of a development house that cared about a quality product.

The keypad wouldn't have been expensive to reproduce at all, and it is questionable if it was even needed. Most games didn't use it, and a third party controller could've easily not included it. The 3DO, which had the same very uncertain future thanks to its price point seems to have had about 1983641 third party controllers for it. Okay, it isn't that many, but there was controllers by Logitech, Interact, and a bunch of others. Hell, even Logitech made a NUON controller. It's just surprising that no one took a swing at the Jaguar, which was originally thought to be the "next big console."

The glasses smiley face above is supposed to be number 8, by the way... I also wanted to add that the Jaguar is an oddity that didn't get any third party controllers for some reason. Even the 3DO had a TON. It is odd to me that not one other company stepped up to the plate to make another controller for it.

There were a good number of revisions to the Jaguar controller, and there is actually a difference in the pinout. It shouldn't make any difference though. The pin that is "missing" from the controller you have wasn't actually anything, and Atari took it out as a money saving measure in later revisions. I actually just posted this in another thread, but there are about ten revisions of the Jaguar controller. In order of how I think they were manufactured, they go: 1) Jaguar controller, all pins, great thick D-pad, grey keypad buttons, normal cord, normal controller plastic 2) Jaguar controller, all pins, slightly thinner D-pad, grey keypad buttons, normal cord, normal controller plastic 3) Jaguar controller, all pins, slightly thinner D-pad, black keypad buttons, normal cord, normal controller plastic 4) Jaguar controller, missing pins, slightly thinner D-pad, grey keypad buttons, normal cord, normal controller plastic 5) Jaguar controller, missing pins, slightly thinner D-pad, black keypad buttons, normal cord, normal controller plastic 6) Jaguar controller, missing pins, really thin, cheap D-pad, black keypad buttons, normal cord, normal controller plastic 7) Jaguar controller, missing pins, really thin, cheap D-pad, black keypad buttons, thin cord, normal controller plastic Jaguar controller, missing pins, really thin, cheap D-pad, black keypad buttons, thin cord, cheap "shiny" controller plastic Sadly, "revision 8," which was easily the worst of the bunch seems to be pretty common now. They, along with 7, were produced at the very end of the Jag's life and have very little going for them. Revisions 1 through 5 however are all excellent controllers.

You really didn't even take the time to look at the pictures and compare them, did you? The Jaguar controller was the first of the "oversized" controller generation. There is something that all of these controllers share -- main D-pad placement and approximate size. The fact that the controllers were the first of a larger size matter. Thank you for actually having read my post before replying. My entire point fell into the size and button placement, which the Jaguar pioneered. Before the Jaguar controller, nothing had been so big. Since then, with the exception of the Playstation controller, EVERY released console has used a controller with very similar dimensions. Even the GameCube is pretty close. Okay, you're right -- if you take out the size of the controller, every controller is very similar. I suppose that you would also state that the 2600 controller and the NES controller were basically the same thing. And that the Jaguar controller is closer to an Intellivision, 5200 and Colecovision controller because of the number pad, right? For everyone that actually took time to look at the pictures, the dimensions of the Jaguar controller have appeared in nearly every console since the Jaguar came out. The button layout of the Jaguar and Jaguar ProController were copied onto these controllers too. Yes, the Genesis had the same button layout, but the size was completely different, and that matters. The original question was about if the controllers were comfortable, and I compared them to all of these other controllers that are very similar. You claimed that the N64 and the Jaguar controllers are so different they shouldn't even be compared... but they are about 90% the same other than the analog / keypad difference.... Seriously, you are just trolling for attention, aren't you. I'm going to start ignoring you now.... I've been suckered in too many times. There are about ten different revisions of the Jaguar controller. One of the most common ones is REALLY crappy, and probably the model that you have. They came out near the end of the lifespan of the Jaguar, and generally have smaller cords. The early three button controllers however are built much, much more sturdy. If you can find one of those, I would strongly suggest picking it up as it will solve the "cheap" feeling very quickly.

Actually, I don't think that is true. If you can post opinions without demeaning everyone else, people listen. You post things like "I think it's time to face facts," but that has nothing to do with the reason *I* like the Jaguar. And Tempest 2000 on the Jaguar has much better gameplay than the Saturn version. Things were changed. Do a thread search on here to find another thread where I went into VAST detail about all the things that were changed, I don't need to do it again here. As for your comment about Alien Vs. Predator being "blurry," something tells me that you haven't played it. You can find a lot of negative things about it, especially now with games like Doom 3 out there, but "blurry" isn't one of them. You could complain about a poor framerate (which they decided to do as a quick fix to slow down the speed of the game -- a poor one, at that), the lack of music (another decision they made for the atmosphere) the lack of varied enemies and so on... but blurry... ain't nothing blurry about the game. It moves too slowly to be blurry.

I know that you are the all knowing Jaguar fanatic and know SO much more about this topic, so I better provide picture proof... so lets take a look! (From ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...8165307167&rd=1 ) (From http://www.lik-sang.com/ ) Now, that just demonstrates dimensions, but the ProController is the one that is really alike. From AtariAge: I just couldn't get one the same size as the above for comparisons. Now, lets take a closer look at what is similar: - Dimensions - Now, if we filled in the area where the analog joystick was, the controllers are the same size. In fact, if you hold them against each other, the size similarility is VERY obvious. The pictures aren't quite the exact dimensions of the controllers though... - D-pad - Both the N64 and the Jaguar controller's D-pads are in the same place. - Shoulder buttons - the ProController and the N64's shoulder buttons are in the same place. - Button Layout - The ProController and the N64's six right hand side buttons are in very similar placements. The N64's was laid out so the four "C" buttons made a secondary D-pad (and were a little smaller), while the Jaguar's top row was smaller. But if you took and changed the button size to having the A and the X buttons on the Jaguar large and the rest small, the layout would be essentially identical. Now, the differences: - The Jaguar had a keypad. The N64 had an analog joystick placement. Yes, that's a major difference, but the size and layout of the N64 controller -- which has grown to a cult status it seems since the N64 died out -- are so nearly identical in every other way to the ProController it is uncanny. Now, for another few controllers to compare it too: The Xbox Controller S (from http://www.freevideogames.com/ ) Not nearly as close as the N64 is, but the dimensions of the controller are very similar, the main analog joystick is placed in the same place as the D-pad, and the four buttons are in the same spot as the six of the ProController were. And then there is the Dreamcast Controller (from http://www.thocp.net/ ) The differences between it and the Jaguar is that the controller 'grip' slants slightly in, where the Jaguar slanted slightly out. But again, the overall size is VERY similar, and the main analog joystick and buttons are in similar locations. Then, the Saturn 3D controller: In which not just is the size nearly perfect, but so is the actual button layout. ... And you can't sit there and say, "well, duh! All of the controllers that came after that point are going to have things in very similar placements. It's just natural!" The Jaguar did it _first_, and the concept has been adopted as a pretty big standard. Before the Jaguar, the first party controllers from Sega and Nintendo were not very big. The Jaguar was the first to go large, and it established a size that is nearly exactly what the successful controllers that have followed have used. It isn't coincidence.

Nothing that I could ever figure out, other than just a slight label variation. If I recall correctly, Cybermorph had these variations (this is TOTALLY on memory, so if I'm off forgive me...): 2MB Black J9000 2MB Grey J9000 Copyright 1993 1MB Grey J9000 Copyright 1994 1MB Grey J9000E 1MB Grey J9000-0001 It's something like that... Damn, I wonder if that FAQ is still up anywhere...

Yup -- I'm the fanboy. Uh hunh. In case you didn't notice, the post that makes me sound like a fanboy was YOUR post with the words changed. I didn't do anything to it but change it around so it wasn't about the Jaguar but was about the Saturn. If that post sounded like a fanboy post, then guess what yours was? If you mean the second post by me, I posted that because that is how *I* feel about the system. The Saturn sucks. I sort of liked Fighting Vipers, but there wasn't another game on the system that I thought was decent. NiGHTS? I hated it. Daytona and Sega Rally? Average ports with not-nearly-enough tracks to make it a home game. Virtua Fitghter 2? There were tons of other fighting games I liked WAY better. So yes, I don't like the Saturn. I played more than one game for it. I played a lot of games for it, and if you just take Tempest 2000 (and yes, the Saturn version of Tempest sucks in comparison) from the Jaguar library, I like it a LOT more. Not to mention Zool 2, Missile Command 3D, Raiden, Super Burnout, Val D'Isre, Iron Soldier 2, Breakout 2000, I*War and about 20 other games that I truly enjoy playing. As for the N64, I liked WaveRace, but I bought it for Mario Kart 64 and have never been more disappointed by a game since. I keep my N64 for Robotron 64 and enjoyed Conker's Bad Fur Day... But beyond those, I don't find as much fun with it as I do with the Jaguar. Now, do you see what I'm saying here? If not, let me point it out - I don't like the Saturn. I like [the Jaguar] a lot more. I don't find as much fun with [the N64] as I do my Jaguar. Don't come on these boards bitching that you hate a system and everything about it, and then complain when people don't agree with you. I don't go to Saturn boards. I don't go to N64 boards. I don't like those systems, and I have no reason to go annoy the people that do. If you don't like the system, don't waste your time with it -- but respect those who do like it. That's where you have failed. There are other people on these boards that can have opinions too, and you have not respected them. Instead, you seem to have fun poking at the hornets nest trying to stir up people to get mad, and then seem to wonder why you keep getting stung. If you don't like the Jaguar, fine. Shut up and leave. There are Sega Saturn boards and so on that you can do. If you would like to contribute something meaningful to conversations, even if you don't like the games, people will listen. Personally, I do not like Alien Vs. Predator much. I HATE Atari Karts. Checkered Flag is unbearable. And there are other Jaguar games that I can't stand. But at the same time, there are games that I like that others think are horrible. Zool 2 is one of my favorite Jaguar games, and it seems that most of the Jaguar fans hate it. If you play it and want to post a respectful post about how you didn't like it, realizing that others may actually like the game, you'll be welcome too. Bitching about everything is just annoying.

I didn't like the N64 controller either because of the analog joystick being in the middle.... But the Jaguar controller is SO amazingly close to the others that I always find it surprising when people complain about it. Compare it to even a GameCube controller. Same general placements of most of the buttons, and almost identical dimensions. Same with Xbox. It was ahead of its time.

I think there is actually five versions of Cybermorph, if you go just by label variations. But yes, there are two Cybermorph versions...

Not necessarily... The 2MB version comes in both shades of grey. I have them. I need to find / post my cartridge label variation list again. I have almost everyone known, and it is pretty interesting... Of note though -- there are no black versions that are the 1MB cart.

And just to explain my reasoning to the above -- you can find a million reasons to hate any system if you want too. If you don't give it a chance and pick out games that are known to be some of the worst in the library and judge the entire thing on that, you aren't getting a true picture of the console. As much as I like some of the games on the Jaguar, I wouldn't ever try forcing others to like them... or to hate them just based on that. Having said that, the Saturn truly was the most disappointing system that I have ever owned. And as a matter of fact, it is one of only a few that I have ever owned that I sold. But when I sold it, I didn't parade around the fact that I thought it was a horrible system. If you like it, that's all that matters. I do sometimes mention the fact that I am really angry about the N64 still (and I would MUCH rather have a Jaguar than an N64, seriously) because I feel Nintendo screwed me on it... But I also don't go into posts about what great games it had and talk about how much it sucked. It did have some good games, and some great games. Just not many that interest me. On a final note, please read the above post and see how goofy it sounds. I could do the same thing with any system that has ever been created. Don't try to cause trouble just because you're bored. If you don't like it, that's fine and you can feel free to post about it in an intelligent manner. You haven't done that. Nothing in my post above makes sense, although I really, truly don't like the Saturn. If you want to hear real reasons, that's a whole different thread -- and I wouldn't post in it, because it isn't my place to try to make people hate it. It's a personal thing. So let us people that like the Jaguar live in peace, and get out of here. Trust me -- selling your Jaguar to someone that wants one will be much better for EVERYONE involved. We'll gain a new fan, and get rid of these stupid posts.

I'm sorry to add onto such an old topic but to say my lasting impression of the Sega Saturn was bad is an under statement. After playing some Saturn games my enthusiasm melted like butter on a hot role. Ok Battle Arena Toshinden is awful its ugly and just not fun to play. And well i think im just going to sell it back to someone. And im just going to chip in like 15 dollars for a Jaguar game. Since im sure i will ahve way more fun with that then my Saturn. With so many awsome games like Rise of the Robots and Hang On GP its n wonder the thing went belly up. Im just going to stay away from failure systems from now on. Since there a reason the failed. And i would like to mention the picture of a planet that looks more like stupid anime and nothing like the planet Saturn was a nice touch. And im sure even the games you have listed as being good are not very good in the grand scheme of things. Since it dosnet take much to be good on the Saturn im sorry but i havent played 1 good game for the system. So i have no reason it keep it around. Man at least the 32X has virtua racing all the Saturn has is tempest 2000 and that is SO much better on the Jaguar. Then again, so what if the jag version "plays better" what ever the hell that means. The Jaguar contorller blows the Intellivison number pad monster out of the water. This has been the first system i cant think of anything good to say about. And its not like im anti sega i think the Dreamcast kicks ass and i still do. But im going to say goodbye to the Saturn forever. I dont think i will be missing much really.

A few other things to add... Battle Wheels beyond the image on the back of the Jaguar box was not even started for the Jaguar. Atari just wanted more games to show off, and Battle Wheels had been a great concept on the Lynx so they put it on the back of the box. That was where the development of the ame ended. Supposedly complete though, but Telegames didn't think it would sell enough to actually produce.

The 2MB version also has Skylar saying more than just "Avoid the ground" over and over...

For anyone with complaints about the Jaguar controllers, do you also not like the N64, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox or GameCube controllers? The Jaguar controllers were the forerunners to many of these, and they are really excellent. The keypad isn't used for most games as was noted, but works really well for some of them like Iron Soldier and DOOM. Take a Jaguar controller and hold it side by side to an N64 controller. They are nearly identical dimensions, and the D-pads and buttons line up nearly perfectly. The N64 one just took out the keypad and added an analog joystick.