Question about HD DVD player.

[+Cobra Kai]

 

 

It doesn't have anything to do with my love for HD-DVD, it has to do with your insistance that all HD-DVD player look the same. I'm just curious why I should disregard all the information about the 360 Player and listen to you.

 

No no no, all I said, and I've been consistent, is that the 360 add-on has advantages over the 1st-gen dedicated players. It can display in 1080p, it's portable (hook up to PC), and has faster loading times (the loading times on the HDA1 are from all accounts horrendous). I also stated it suffers in the audio department compared to the standalones. If someone is a big audio person, then I wouldn't see a scenario where he or she would be happy with the 360 add-on. You're trying to make it out that I'm saying the 360 add-on is above the fold, and you know that's not what I've done.

 

I don't care about HS-DVD players, take a quick look at the forum we're posting in. Microsoft Xbox 360 forum. The question was, is there a better HD-DVD Player you can get than the 360 HD-DVD. It was very simple question, and it's always had a very simple answer....yes.

 

Actually you do need to read up on general information on the format so that you don't post idiotic quotes from the net that make absolutely no sense. There's more to HD DVD than the 360 add on. And again, I never said that the 360 add-on has no equal. You seem to have an issue with Me correcting your cut n' pasted fabrications about HD DVD.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Gunstarhero

[MCHufnagel]

Thanks moycon for actually providing reviews. I visited the two forums that were listed earlier in this thread and found no actual comparisons at all. It did slip my mind that my X360 can upscale DVD's via VGA. So I'll check that out tonight. And right now I really don't need a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player. I'll probably get one for next Christmas when I upgrade to a 1080p HDTV. By then prices for both 1080p HDTV's and HD players will be more reasonable.

 

Gunstarhero, upscaling DVD's may be a "stopgap measure", but there is a reason for that. HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players are too expensive. And while the X360 may be able to output 1080p via VGA, how many HDTV's can handle 1080p via VGA? 1080p is a mute point if you can't find a TV/monitor that can handle it.

 

The fact that some people would have no use for the VGA cable doesn't negate in any way the fact that the X360 is capable of outputting 1080p.

 

At $400 for the Toshiba HDA2 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E1PTG...0918812-1528944

I think thats pretty reasonable. The first DVD player I bought was $300 in 1997. It's getting down to pretty good general consumer pricing. A little cheaper would always help of course.

 

Upscaling is overrated, it's only good enough until you've watched actual High Def movies for awhile, then even the upscaled stuff is obviously not comparable, no matter what some of you believe. Trust me I've been there, I was all about upscaling until I got into HD DVD. It's nice to have though, I mean I gladly use my upscale player for all my old DVD's that I still watch, I just think its overrated.

But you never address the problem of not having a 1080p capable VGA input on a HDTV. Did something change and the X360 can do 1080p in component? If the HDTV can't do it, then you can only use the add on in 720p mode. Therebye making a stand alone unit with HDMI better.

 

The first DVD player I bought was only $100. And really the DVD market didn't take off until players were under $150. Now I don't expect to wait on a HD player until the prices get that low. But even $300 is too much for me. I honestly don't watch that many movies because I play games. But my wife now would be much more inclined to buy one, even at above a $300 price point. But I really doubt she would purchase at the $400 price point. That is why I mentioned next Christmas to go along with a 1080p HDTV. And if I picked up a HDTV with 1080p VGA input, then I would really consider the X360 add on (I've mentioned many times here at AA that I'm a cheap bastard ).

 

You are persistant in your defense of the X360 add on. You're not (and I mean it in a good way) a salesman are you?

[moycon]

Actually you do need to read up on general information on the format so that you don't post idiotic quotes from the net that make absolutely no sense. There's more to HD DVD than the 360 add on. And again, I never said that the 360 add-on has no equal. You seem to have an issue with Me correcting your cut n' pasted fabrications about HD DVD.

 

No I don't think I do.

Here. Let me quote the original question for you Gunstar:

 

I know it is "only $200", but is it worth it to spend the extra money?

 

Here was the response.

 

You could spend twice as much for a HD-DVD player that looks better than the 360 one I'm sure.

For me it's not even worth $200 to improve the quality over regular DVDs. If I find a 360 HD on a good sale I'll pick one up. I guess it all depends on how picky you are.

 

For some reason, you seem to have a major problem with this answer and refuse to let it go. You been doing a lot of double talk, telling me I need to read up on HD-DVD, and I guess trying to insult the fact that I was quoting sites (Something that was done because you start fabricating stories based on your assumptions otherwise) but in the end offer no proof that it isn't true. Put up some facts or drop it.

Edited January 31, 2007 by moycon

[+Cobra Kai]

Actually you do need to read up on general information on the format so that you don't post idiotic quotes from the net that make absolutely no sense. There's more to HD DVD than the 360 add on. And again, I never said that the 360 add-on has no equal. You seem to have an issue with Me correcting your cut n' pasted fabrications about HD DVD.

 

No I don't think I do.

Here. Let me quote the original question for you Gunstar:

 

I know it is "only $200", but is it worth it to spend the extra money?

 

Here was the response.

 

You could spend twice as much for a HD-DVD player that looks better than the 360 one I'm sure.

For me it's not even worth $200 to improve the quality over regular DVDs. If I find a 360 HD on a good sale I'll pick one up. I guess it all depends on how picky you are.

 

For some reason, you seem to have a major problem with this answer and refuse to let it go. You been doing a lot of double talk, telling me I need to read up on HD-DVD, and I guess trying to insult the fact that I was quoting sites (Something that was done because you start fabricating stories based on your assumptions otherwise) but in the end offer no proof that it isn't true. Put up some facts or drop it.

 

I've given you plenty of facts, plenty of opinion, supplied you with helpful answers to things you question about HD DVD (AACS HDMI regulations) I've corrected your erroneous quotes, and helped the original poster with an honest answer. I'm not an expert at all, but geez, you dont even own this thing, or spent time with HD DVD in any meaningful way, yet you accuse me of inexperience. I own this unit, I've read up on it, I know what it can do. You don't own it, and have admitted to not caring about it, please quit polluting HD threads with your posts.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Gunstarhero

[Starscream]

But you never address the problem of not having a 1080p capable VGA input on a HDTV. Did something change and the X360 can do 1080p in component? If the HDTV can't do it, then you can only use the add on in 720p mode. Therebye making a stand alone unit with HDMI better.

 

Yes it can do 1080p over component. I hooked mine up through component then VGA. VGA has a broader color bandwidth IIRC and it definitely gives a crisper display.

 

The issue is how many displays support 1080p through component or VGA? Very few right now. I chose my display because it can do 1080p over any input (VGA, HDMI, Component). My biggest complaint from day 1 of the 360 was no digital video output. I am still very displeased with that. I don't understand the (il)logic of having HD content purely digital only to convert to analog for display.

 

Anyways, Gunstar is correct. The add-on is identical to any stand alone and worth the money except no digital output. Moycon is correct that you would get a better display through a digital signal. You are correct that you don't need one until you get a new tv. I am correct that MS was stupid to only output analog signals for video.

 

Do you guys feel the love yet?

[+Cobra Kai]

But you never address the problem of not having a 1080p capable VGA input on a HDTV. Did something change and the X360 can do 1080p in component? If the HDTV can't do it, then you can only use the add on in 720p mode. Therebye making a stand alone unit with HDMI better.

 

Yes it can do 1080p over component. I hooked mine up through component then VGA. VGA has a broader color bandwidth IIRC and it definitely gives a crisper display.

 

 

 

This is correct, the X360 itself can do 1080p with component just fine, but only for games. When using the HD DVD drive, you will only get a max output of 1080i due to the aforementioned AACS regulations. (It's so Hollywood can control us somehow, they can't regulate Component)

[moycon]

and helped the original poster with an honest answer.

 

I am confused here. In your semi-expert opinion, can you not spend another $200 and guarantee yourself a better picture without possibly having to shell out big time money on a HD-TV that will help make up for MS mistake? And if it is in fact true, that without that TV the 360 HD-DVD drive’s picture quality is less then that more slightly expensive unit? (I'm guessing you can't buy one of those TVs for $200, but I'm not positive about this)

 

Know that if you answer “yes” to these questions, that you are a hypocrite for accusing me of polluting this thread with garbage post, cuz friend that’s what we were discussing. LOL

 

Do you guys feel the love yet?

 

I got some love for you guys.

[CPUWIZ]

I hooked mine up through component then VGA. VGA has a broader color bandwidth IIRC and it definitely gives a crisper display.

 

The issue is how many displays support 1080p through component or VGA? Very few right now. I chose my display because it can do 1080p over any input (VGA, HDMI, Component).

 

Is that really true? If so, I might actually buy one of the add-on drives, my TV can handle 1920x1080 60Hz over VGA. I also thought that they wouldn't let you output anything higher than 720p/1080i, without copy protection. Although, I admit, I have not looked into any deep info about the add-on drive.

 

But I can tell you this, Ice Age 2 on Blu Ray, blew my socks off. I won't hesitate if my TV can play HD-DVD's in 1080p with the 360, shit I'd buy one tomorrow.

[+Cobra Kai]

and helped the original poster with an honest answer.

 

I am confused here. In your semi-expert opinion, can you not spend another $200 and guarantee yourself a better picture without possibly having to shell out big time money on a HD-TV that will help make up for MS mistake? And if it is in fact true, that without that TV the 360 HD-DVD drive’s picture quality is less then that more slightly expensive unit? (I'm guessing you can't buy one of those TVs for $200, but I'm not positive about this)

 

The original post was about space on the system memory reserved for the HD DVD drive, not about it's price.

 

No, just because you buy a dedicated player does not gaurantee you will get a better picture, because it does matter how good your HDTV is, and picture quality can be a subjective thing anyway. You can't even get a general consensus from people on which is better between 720p and 1080i. Toshiba doesn't control how adept you are at calibrating your set, nor does Microsoft control whether or not someone has a VGA connection available. Just because you don't have a VGA capable HDTV does not mean the 360 add-on doesn't display at the highest possible resolution in 1080p.

 

See the reason you need to read up on the other hardware is for things like this, because I've already stated the Toshiba HDA1 didn't have an HDMI output either, and that was the cheapest machine available when the HD DVD 360 was released. It's also hard to sit there and blame Microsoft for lack of HDMI when the Xbox 360 was out for 1 year before the HD DVD drive was unleashed. I think $200 is a very good price for the very minimum of getting 1080i through component, I've seen it in action and I'll always say its worth it. I have a well calibrated HDTV and it looks awesome. You can't refute any of this because you don't own it, don't care to learn about it, and don't want to believe that it's worth $200.

 

Since you won't take first hand accounts as an answer, here's an excerpt from an 'online' article from CNN.com. Here's the relevant part pertaining to your question:

 

We compared the picture quality of the Xbox 360 HD DVD player to that of our reference video player, the Toshiba HD-A1, which we also connected to the component-video output at 1080i.

 

We then sent their respective signals to three HDTVs we had on hand: the 1,366x768 Panasonic TH-50PH9UK as well as the 1080p Sony KDS-R60XBR2 and Pioneer PRO-FHD1. In short, the Xbox 360 looked just as sharp as the Toshiba, and the picture was essentially identical in every way -- which is to say, it looked great.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/12/13/x...ddvd/index.html Edited January 31, 2007 by Gunstarhero

[moycon]

See the reason you need to read up on the other hardware is for things like this, because I've already stated the Toshiba HDA1 didn't have an HDMI output either,

 

Ok so I guess you're saying what that you have to purchase a Toshiba HDA1 player if you don't get a 360 HD-DVD player?

Im still confused.

 

It would probably be easier if you just answered Yes or No....or Y or N would work to.

 

Can you not spend some more and guarantee yourself a better picture without possibly having to shell out big time money on a HD-TV that will help make up for MS mistake?

 

LOL I see exactly what you are saying Gunstar. I realize and always have that other units hooked up the same way as a 360 Drive produce similar quality. I still say based on what I've read, if you are willing to spend more, you can find a better HD-DVD simply because it WILL have HDMI output. The fact that there are HD units that don't have HDMI doesn't matter to the question unless you just wanted to let people know to avoid getting one. I'm thinking it would have been easier to just point that out though.

 

Also...based on that site you just sent, you could probably find a HD-DVD that produces just as good of a quality as the 360 drive....for less. You can pick up a Samsung HD for $156.00 Again like you said whether or not it's worth it to you is subjective and finding one for less that produces the same quality wasn't what I was replying to, nor was I replying to anything about space on anything :!:

 

Here's the best part. I'm in complete agreement with you $200 is a very good price for the very minimum of getting 1080i through component, and I too have seen it in action and I'll always say its worth it, even if I knew I could get a HD-Player with almost identical output for less, if only because it looks super cool next to the 360.

[MCHufnagel]

When I asked my question, I didn't know I would be starting a war. At least nobody showed up saying we shouldn't worry about HD-DVD and just get a Blu-Ray player ! As much as I was against a new format I will pick up a HD-DVD player when I replace my 720p unit with a 1080p unit. I was out shopping last night and was very impressed with both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray . I went home and watched a movie on the X360 via upscaling VGA and thought that a HD player is the way to go.

 

To me, even though I currently have a HDTV, getting a HD player right now is too soon. There isn't enough out there yet, especially when you rent from B & M stores like I do.

[moycon]

When I asked my question, I didn't know I would be starting a war.

 

I don't think it so much a war as a mis-understanding and I know what you mean. I just now got a huge DVD collection going that probably exceeded my VHS collection and now they release new formats. I suspect in 6 or 7 years when HD-DVD burners are the norm and HD-DVDs cost as little as 50 movies for $20 the powers that be will release SHD-DVD

 

Here's a small sample of the VHS collection so you can see why format changes irk me....

[Starscream]

I hooked mine up through component then VGA. VGA has a broader color bandwidth IIRC and it definitely gives a crisper display.

 

The issue is how many displays support 1080p through component or VGA? Very few right now. I chose my display because it can do 1080p over any input (VGA, HDMI, Component).

 

Is that really true? If so, I might actually buy one of the add-on drives, my TV can handle 1920x1080 60Hz over VGA. I also thought that they wouldn't let you output anything higher than 720p/1080i, without copy protection. Although, I admit, I have not looked into any deep info about the add-on drive.

 

But I can tell you this, Ice Age 2 on Blu Ray, blew my socks off. I won't hesitate if my TV can play HD-DVD's in 1080p with the 360, shit I'd buy one tomorrow.

 

Time to go shopping

 

Yes there was an update on the 360 in November, maybe late October, that enabled 1080p. Through VGA, the add-on will display 1080p for HD movies. For now, the DVD Forums (or whatever that "group" is) have decided not to enforce the HDCP and flags on media for like 5 or 6 years because not everyone has the correct HDMI standard and not all HD displays have HDMI inputs. So you are good to go.

 

Ice Age 2 on Blu Ray is incredible and I think Ultrviolet is too. Side by side, I think both formats look identical but HD Dvd has better features and a more uniform menu system, but that's about the only differences and both kick ass.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Starscream

[jsoper]

Ice Age 2 on Blu Ray is incredible and I think Ultrviolet is too. Side by side, I think both formats look identical but HD Dvd has better features and a more uniform menu system, but that's about the only differences and both kick ass.

Yea, it's funny how the fanboys on both sides of the format war work themselves into a lather because it looks like both formats are succeeding equally and are here to stay.

[+Cobra Kai]

Ice Age 2 on Blu Ray is incredible and I think Ultrviolet is too. Side by side, I think both formats look identical but HD Dvd has better features and a more uniform menu system, but that's about the only differences and both kick ass.

Yea, it's funny how the fanboys on both sides of the format war work themselves into a lather because it looks like both formats are succeeding equally and are here to stay.

I do hope both formats can co-exist because then all the movie studios would have to drop their 'format exclusivity'. I want Fox, MGM and Disney on my HD DVD player, and I'm sure Bluray owners would love to have the Universal catalog as well.

 

I thought there was some company that was making an ultimate HD disc (called TotalHD?) with both HD DVD and Bluray on a single disc, but I haven't taken the time to read about it.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Gunstarhero

[moycon]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know about how much space % wise on a HD-DVD does a 2 hour movie take up? The reason I ask is I was under the impression that the disks hold more data than a standard DVD. It seems to me I wouldn't mind so much like saying paying $24.99 for the flick Species... If I got all 3 movies on one disk. What the point of being able to hold 15-30 Gig or in Blu-Rays case 25-50 Gig if you still are going to only sell one crappy movie. Might as well sell 3 crappy movies for the price of one. I'd take the plunge a lot sooner if I could have all the flicks in a series available on one disk or would you sacrifice quality trying to fit 3 HD movies on one?

[Hyper_Eye]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

 

Blu-ray holds 25GB per layer.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd-dvd

 

HD-DVD holds 15GB per layer.

 

The movies take up much more space then a DVD movie does due to the much higher resolution (1080p) that they are stored in. This is the whole reason behind the format.

[moycon]

The movies take up much more space then a DVD movie does due to the much higher resolution (1080p) that they are stored in. This is the whole reason behind the format.

 

Yep I know how much the new disks hold, and figured they were bigger files.

Here's what I think I was looking for....

 

Playback time on two layers (High Definition) 5.4 hours

 

This tells me they could easily fit three 1.5 hour movies on one disk without sacrificing quality. Am I reading that right?

I'm guessing someone will release double and triple features eventually. In the mean time I can't see repaying $20.00+ for one movie I already have.

 

Thanks.

[MCHufnagel]

[Playback time on two layers (High Definition) 5.4 hours

 

This tells me they could easily fit three 1.5 hour movies on one disk without sacrificing quality. Am I reading that right?

I'm guessing someone will release double and triple features eventually. In the mean time I can't see repaying $20.00+ for one movie I already have.

 

Thanks.

This might happen with some cult series or movies, but for the most part I think that only special features will be added. This can be done without adding another disc with a dual layer disc. And just think of the content that can be added when they get bumped up to 4 layers.