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JagMX

Tomb Raider & Swagman for the Jag

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No.

Even with proper programming, the Saturn hardly can touch the PSX.

 

Says who?

Yes, the Saturn´s a much better 2D console than the PSX and the PSX beats it most of the time in the 3D arena, but when it comes to stuff like FPS, once again the Saturn´s the better beast.

 

I´m not saying that I believe the Saturn´s specs are better than those of the Playstation. They´re not. Again, you need to look at the proficiency of the programmers and how much they can actually squeeze out of what they have to work with.

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No.

Even with proper programming, the Saturn hardly can touch the PSX.

 

Says who?

Yes, the Saturn´s a much better 2D console than the PSX and the PSX beats it most of the time in the 3D arena, but when it comes to stuff like FPS, once again the Saturn´s the better beast.

 

I´m not saying that I believe the Saturn´s specs are better than those of the Playstation. They´re not. Again, you need to look at the proficiency of the programmers and how much they can actually squeeze out of what they have to work with.

 

It's pretty much up to the skill of the programmer when it comes to the Saturn. It was a powerful system, but really hard to program (reminds me of the Jag in some ways).

 

Tempest

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A 3D Tomb Raider on the Jag is not impossible. It just wouldn't look like the PSX version.

 

Exactly. The PSX beats the Saturn version hands down in the visuals department, however the Saturn version is faster and smoother (probably a better frame rate).

What I mean to say is that you adapt the game to draw on the strengths of the individual consoles, and that way you get a good game regardless of which console we´re talking about. Hence, a Jaguar Tomb Raider in 3D is not impossible IMO.

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I follow both sides of the fence on this one, I fully believe that a dreadful version of Tomb Raider could definitely be made for the Jag :D

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I follow both sides of the fence on this one, I fully believe that a dreadful version of Tomb Raider could definitely be made for the Jag :D

LOL... The PS version wasn't exactly a masterpiece... :P

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No.

Even with proper programming, the Saturn hardly can touch the PSX.

 

Says who?

Yes, the Saturn´s a much better 2D console than the PSX and the PSX beats it most of the time in the 3D arena, but when it comes to stuff like FPS, once again the Saturn´s the better beast.

 

I´m not saying that I believe the Saturn´s specs are better than those of the Playstation. They´re not. Again, you need to look at the proficiency of the programmers and how much they can actually squeeze out of what they have to work with.

 

I wouldn't say the Saturn is MUCH better at 2-D...Yes, it is better, but really, not by that much. And I don't know where you get the crazy idea that the Saturn is better at FPS than the Playstation!?!? A perfect game to compare the 2 is Doom. Iirc...They are both the exact same game and the Playstation version runs circles around the Saturn version. Saturn 3-D textures just don't look or run as good as PS. But the Saturn does have the edge in the 2-D. Of course this is all just my opinion! :twisted:

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A 3D Tomb Raider on the Jag is not impossible. It just wouldn't look like the PSX version.

 

Exactly. The PSX beats the Saturn version hands down in the visuals department, however the Saturn version is faster and smoother (probably a better frame rate).

What I mean to say is that you adapt the game to draw on the strengths of the individual consoles, and that way you get a good game regardless of which console we´re talking about. Hence, a Jaguar Tomb Raider in 3D is not impossible IMO.

 

On Jag CD it's easily possible... ;)

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And I don't know where you get the crazy idea that the Saturn is better at FPS than the Playstation!?!?

Quake, Duke Nukem, Powerslave. Nuff said.

Doom was terrible on the Saturn but that´s because Lobotomy Inc. weren´t involved.

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A 3D Tomb Raider on the Jag is not impossible. It just wouldn't look like the PSX version.

 

exactly. It could be done. It could LOOK like the PSX version, but either be terribly slow in comparison, or not full screen (like BI/WN). OR, it could have been full screen like the PSX, but not fully textured, maybe only garuad shaded graphics for many things, with some textures, and the polygonal characters would have had to be plain or garuad shaded, or, not polygonal at all, but pre-rendered characters (like BI/WN, DOOM, AvP, etc.), which IMHO, would not have been that bad either. It is definately possible, no matter what anyone says, but it would not have been exactly like the PSX or even Saturn versions, but it could have been just a playable anyway. Another similiar example would be Quake, it WAS planned for the Jaguar, but they probably would have gone with pre-rendered characters on the Jaguar, like DOOM, instead of polygon characters. Even Halo COULD be done on the Jaguar, but of course it would look nothing like Halo on the Xbox, it would look more like a Doom/Battlemorph (for outside areas) type of game.

 

Even John Carmack himself (from ID) said the Jaguar could do Quake, and he also said that Doom could have been much better with a MUCH better frame-rate (not that it's bad now), IF they had written it from scratch on the Jaguar to take advantage of the Jaguar's custom chips(which WOULD have been the case with Quake, if the Jaguar had lasted long enough), instead they used C+ to PORT the PC version of Doom, and it's still impressive. Just dropping C+ and programming it in assembler directly could have improved the PC to Jag port, let alone redoing the engine from scratch on the Jaguar. It's all well documented factual quotes from John Carmack. One MUST think outside the box and within the specs, that's all.

Edited by Gunstar
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Scanner is being a pain in the ass. But I should be able to get it working soon. The page is really no big deal except for the one paragraph. The other side has some nice shots of early Jag games and canned stuff which I'll scan as well, as soon as I get this hewlet crappard to work :)

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That's what I'm talking about, I wouldn't mind if TR was done on the Jag with 2D charactures, or no textures on the polys (god, those were ugly as hell anyways :x ) If either, or both of these were done, I see no reason the whole game couldn't be done on the Jag fairly easily.

 

Also, someone mentioned, maybe a 2D tombRaider? Who knows, the 3D game sucked IMO, just a painfully slow 3rd person shooter with bad controlls. Maybe a 2D version of the game would have been...what's that word....oh yeah...Fun.

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And I don't know where you get the crazy idea that the Saturn is better at FPS than the Playstation!?!?

Quake, Duke Nukem, Powerslave. Nuff said.

Doom was terrible on the Saturn but that´s because Lobotomy Inc. weren´t involved.

 

Quake got bad reviews, the Starun version sucks.

Your list is terribly outdated.

What about Metal GEar Solid, Medal of Honour, Alien Trilogy? These were the AAA titles during the day.

BTW whats exactly is the myth behind FPS and 3D power? The PSX is simply better at 3D and its approved.

Platformers, racing games, action games are all using full 3d engines. Your exclusion of FPS as special approve for Saturns 3D power is not valid.

Crash Bandicoot for the PSX is technically more advanced than Quake, and it is not a FPS.

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No.

Even with proper programming, the Saturn hardly can touch the PSX.

 

Says who?

Yes, the Saturn´s a much better 2D console than the PSX and the PSX beats it most of the time in the 3D arena, but when it comes to stuff like FPS, once again the Saturn´s the better beast.

 

I´m not saying that I believe the Saturn´s specs are better than those of the Playstation. They´re not. Again, you need to look at the proficiency of the programmers and how much they can actually squeeze out of what they have to work with.

 

I say that and apart from some myths and rumours about the capabllties of the Saturn its approved. I have both machines and the PSX is simply the far better machine. FPS is no exception to 3D power. BTW Saturn Quake was dreadful and compares not favourable to similar games on the PSX. Duke Nukem was pretty outdated that day to. Its a fine port but has no edge compared to 3D gfx on the PSX.

What about Medal of Honor or Medal Gear Solid?

Edited by agradeneu

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I say that and apart from some myths and rumours about the capabllties of the Saturn its approved. I have both machines and the PSX is simply the far better machine. FPS is no exception to 3D power. BTW Saturn Quake was dreadful and compares not favourable to similar games on the PSX. Duke Nukem was pretty outdated that day to. Its a fine port but has no edge compared to 3D gfx on the PSX.

What about Medal of Honor or Medal Gear Solid?

 

Sorry, man. Didn´t know that Metal Gear Solid was a First Person Shooter. Apart from that, I think further discussion on this subject is redundant, especially after your comment regarding Quake on the Saturn (which is probably the finest technical achievement on that particualr console. Came out 2-3 years prior to Medal of Honor also btw, so I´m not sure the comparison is entirely relevant).

 

I also have both machines btw, and the Saturn is simply by far the better machine. Simply. Because I say so.

 

Anyway, this is a thread about the Jaguar so we probably shouldn´t turn it into yet another slugfest between the PSX and the Saturn. :cool:

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I say that and apart from some myths and rumours about the capabllties of the Saturn its approved. I have both machines and the PSX is simply the far better machine. FPS is no exception to 3D power. BTW Saturn Quake was dreadful and compares not favourable to similar games on the PSX. Duke Nukem was pretty outdated that day to. Its a fine port but has no edge compared to 3D gfx on the PSX.

What about Medal of Honor or Medal Gear Solid?

 

Sorry, man. Didn´t know that Metal Gear Solid was a First Person Shooter. Apart from that, I think further discussion on this subject is redundant, especially after your comment regarding Quake on the Saturn (which is probably the finest technical achievement on that particualr console. Came out 2-3 years prior to Medal of Honor also btw, so I´m not sure the comparison is entirely relevant).

 

I also have both machines btw, and the Saturn is simply by far the better machine. Simply. Because I say so.

 

Anyway, this is a thread about the Jaguar so we probably shouldn´t turn it into yet another slugfest between the PSX and the Saturn. :cool:

 

I thought we talked of hardware capabilities and not subjective views. I'm totally fine with that you like the Saturn better.

Screw that disussion, I'm not argueing on things which are not debatable. :cool:

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How's about Swagman? lol That game could definitely be done on the Jag. I've never played it, and it looks and sounds bad after reading about the game. But after seeing some screenshots I would say the Jag could definitely do that game.

Edited by JagMX

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How's about Swagman? lol That game could definitely be done on the Jag. I've never played it, and it looks and sounds bad after reading about the game. But after seeing some screenshots I would say the Jag could definitely do that game.

I have the Saturn version and it´s actually quite good. And as I stated earlier, of course the game could have been done on the Jaguar.

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No.

Even with proper programming, the Saturn hardly can touch the PSX.

 

Says who?

Yes, the Saturn´s a much better 2D console than the PSX and the PSX beats it most of the time in the 3D arena, but when it comes to stuff like FPS, once again the Saturn´s the better beast.

 

I´m not saying that I believe the Saturn´s specs are better than those of the Playstation. They´re not. Again, you need to look at the proficiency of the programmers and how much they can actually squeeze out of what they have to work with.

 

I dunno. Games like Battle Arena Toshinden, I can hardly tell the difference between the PSX and the Saturn. I guess I'd have to put them side by side to see any noticable difference.

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Oh, I have both the PS and Saturn version of Toshinden. It's a night and day difference in my eyes. The PS version looks much better.

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BA Toshinden´s hardly a showstopper for either console, but yes, the Saturn version is the worst of the two.

 

 

I think I have seen some of the best 3D on the Saturn (Panzer Dragon I&2, Sega RALLY). Its no doubt about that the PSX does much better 3D gfx technically.

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BA Toshinden´s hardly a showstopper for either console, but yes, the Saturn version is the worst of the two.

 

 

I think I have seen some of the best 3D on the Saturn (Panzer Dragon I&2, Sega RALLY). Its no doubt about that the PSX does much better 3D gfx technically.

 

If you want some nice 3D games on Saturn, take VF2 or Dead or Alive, talented programers could do amazing things on this hardware. But yes, in 3D, the PlayStation is better.

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BA Toshinden´s hardly a showstopper for either console, but yes, the Saturn version is the worst of the two.

 

 

I think I have seen some of the best 3D on the Saturn (Panzer Dragon I&2, Sega RALLY). Its no doubt about that the PSX does much better 3D gfx technically.

 

Problem is, that most of the really good Saturn stuff never made it to the west. Sony´s marketing muscle took care of that pretty darn quickly.

 

We went off-topic again. ;) Perhaps we should start a new thread paring the two systems off against each other somewhere outside of the Jaguar section.

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BA Toshinden´s hardly a showstopper for either console, but yes, the Saturn version is the worst of the two.

don't forget Toshinden URA, made Remix look like a masterpiece.

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