jaguar..worst atari system?

[phuzaxeman]

7800 is the worst atari system ever.

 

 

...I find it to be far superior to the NES...

 

7800 far superior than the nes? not even close. over 60 million units sold, controllers that set a new standard in video gaming, encouragement of 3rd party developers, amazing depth games like zelda, megaman, super mario, tecmo bowl, and punch out (to name a few), graphics and music, it's not even in the same category. i love my old 7800 but let's be realistic....

 

 

The 7800 could do all those games.

 

what could and what actually happened are two different things. the 7800 is what it is.

[phuzaxeman]

7800 far superior than the nes? over 60 million units sold,

So units sold equals 'superiority'? By that thinking the Gameboy Advance is the greatest console of all time. Nice bit of gaming kit, but hardly the most 'superior'.

 

The best console is the one you play the most.

 

 

not solely. a system is judged by the games. that's what it comes down to. and when you look at it...the 7800 doesn't even compare to the nes. it shouldn't even be compared.

[Gorf]

7800 is the worst atari system ever.

 

 

...I find it to be far superior to the NES...

 

7800 far superior than the nes? not even close. over 60 million units sold, controllers that set a new standard in video gaming, encouragement of 3rd party developers, amazing depth games like zelda, megaman, super mario, tecmo bowl, and punch out (to name a few), graphics and music, it's not even in the same category. i love my old 7800 but let's be realistic....

 

 

First ...and I am speaking at the time of these machines and wont count the third party

underground stuff made for them over the years.

 

Games and Sales != tech power.

 

Im being very realistic in terms of better technology. I never saw a NES game with

more than four sprites that did not flicker like crazy. The 7800 has a much more stable

display. It can flicker here and there too but it had 64 hardware srpites. It could also

play 2600 games. NES cant.

 

The NES could only play NES games and never had one title from the fantastic library of Atari.

 

Sound I'll give you if you really like that horrible music.

 

ok..now on your matters of opinion(which for these next few points is all it is and

of course nothing personal.)

 

I hated those controllers WAY too small.

 

Im a musician who is NOT a big fan of in game music. Where it belongs only and that is not

many places in my opinion.

 

I can't think of many titles at all that I like on the NES unless they wer ports of other games

I already liked. Zelda? Not my kind of game. Im not really much of an RPG or adventure lover.

 

My kind of thinking game is a good space battle like Star Raiders or Battle Sphere. Something

like AvP Jaguar. However, Im more into mindless shooters. I code all day and write music and

quite frankly need a little less thinking when im at play. Nothing like a good shooter to clear out

the notes, bits and bytes.

 

Nintendo, however, was certainly the benifactor of that stupid Atari decision to sit on the 7800.

I applaud Nintendo for deciding to wisely release that themselves.

 

All I am saying is the 7800 had a better design at least in the compatibility and graphics department.

 

Nonetheless, all those other departments you mention, I have to agree, more games, more sales,

and all that.

 

[+LS650]

the 7800 doesn't even compare to the nes. it shouldn't even be compared.

Exactly. I don't compare systems - I play them.

[Gorf]

Popular at the time? Why!!!???....In your own words...

 

 

If Atari would of Focused on releasing titles owned by Tengen(64 Bit versions) and 2000 versions of their old catalog Burger Time 2000, Q-Burt 2000, Centepede 2000, Asteroids 2000.

 

Burgertime or Q-bert were licensed to Atari, not owned. But on the other mentioned names...

 

Nail on head my friend...this is why they failed. They forgot who they where..they did

not need to be anyone else. They just had to be themselves. Tempest 2k is all the proof

you need. Why was not Asteroid 3D the Pack in?...though...

 

Cybermorph was a very Atari like game and a nice new title under the Atari belt of hits.

Perfect? No but certainly worthy and a good pack in. That was a decent desicion. But for

Atari to try to be anything other than Atari? Idiocy!!! I will never be able to understand

that to this very day. New is great but never forget where you come from!

 

Now this is not to say they should not have branched out and competed, but they had

an arsenal waiting to be used and fired only a few shots.

 

Tempest 2K! MC3D! ....hmmmm they worked!!! They showed the Jag's real power and

why did they not keep going? Good question. Hover Strike should have been Battle Zone

3D with TANKS!!! Have a hovercraft option for a new twist in play but why not add the tanks?

Why allow the game to be coded in mostly 68k? DOH!

 

Now for New stuff, Iron Soldier like games is more what Atari should ahve been looking for

instead of chasing after those after those old 16 bit looking titles. Then blowing money on

R&D for hardware add ons, instead of concentrating on getting the base console market

stable with better games.

 

I wont name games, but in less than two months I have four playble versions in 3D

of some oold Atari Classics ...the original code was under 8k! Why make life so

compilcated?

 

 

Oh well. sigh...

 

 

 

 

 

 

FROG

[DracIsBack]

All I am saying is the 7800 had a better design at least in the compatibility and graphics department.

 

 

"better" is a term that marketing departments like. My problem with it is that there is no such thing as "unilateral" superiority.

 

The 7800 is "better" in that it can display many more colors, has a more flexible graphics chip and can display many more objects simultaneously, without screen flicker.

 

The NES is "better" in that it displays a brighter palette, as a far superior sound chip and is better at generating tile based side-scrollers than the flexible (but CPU hungry) MARIA in the 7800.

 

The "X is better than Y argument" sparks great flame wars, but it's unlikely within any generation, where you can safely say "X is unilaterally better than Y". There's too much grey area, too many individual strengths and weaknesses.

 

Example: Resolution. On paper, the 7800 has the highest resolution of the two systems. There are a couple of homebrew games (Froggie) that actually have higher resolution than any NES title.

 

In practice though, most 7800 games have lower resolution than NES games, due to the CPU hungry nature of MARIA. In short, for general purposes, the 7800 sacrifices resolution to give MARIA it's flexibility.

 

 

To me, it comes down to "what do you prefer to play"? I have an NES, SMS and 7800 and enjoy them all. I have a Jaguar and I like it too.

[elan]

That is bullshit.Atari was really superb game console.

Atari Jaguar Marketing Team was worst Marketing Team ever!!!

Not hardware!

[mimo]

7800 is the worst atari system ever.

why ?

because it has it's own games + all the 2600 titles?

 

Jagfan likes to stir the pot and express is his personal subjective opinions as though they are fact.

I have not been around these forums for long, and I can't understand the logic of what is the best system posts.

It serves no purpose, enjoy whichever system you like and let others enjoy the system(s) of their choice.

[DracIsBack]

I have not been around these forums for long, and I can't understand the logic of what is the best system posts.

It serves no purpose, enjoy whichever system you like and let others enjoy the system(s) of their choice.

 

Usually it's to stir the pot.

[mimo]

what sad lives they must lead

[Needles Kane]

Honestly, in terms of hardware, what system couldn't be called superb? The Jag displayed some impressive graphics for its time, but the same is true for virtually every system.

 

If you judge Atari consoles by graphics alone, then obviously the Jag would come out on top. That's no secret.

[Video]

I think Atari should of faced the fact that they were never going to be #1, or #2 and just done like Neo Geo or Nintendo Game Cube and went after a nitch market.

 

Actually, that nitch market is still there, if they wanted it. And while Nintendo did sell like 50 times the systems of the Jaguar, I'd still call it a nich system as it did basically come out in third and their still aiming at just one audiance.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Video

[Trip_Cannon]

On another note, I find it laughable that people blame Atari management for all the Jaguar's problems. I will admit that they did rush a lot of games out, and they were a bit naive, if anything. But you have to consider the size of Atari at the time. By 1993, when the Jaguar was first pushed out the door, their workforce was down well below 1000. I believe the old SEC filings placed them around 400 employees. Their assets at the time were around $35 million in cash and some change held in securities. They didn't even own a building at that point (just leases). Compare that with the original Playstation launch, which Sony dedicated $100 million in North American marketing alone, and you can see Atari had no hope.

 

Sam Tramiel? Is that you?

 

LOL -- no, he makes a good point. There's a lot of "armchair CEO's" on these forums.

 

I know, guilty some of the time in my own views. But I have to say, with Atari, it happens WAY more than it should. What I mean by that is, for the most part Atari has or had a superior piece of hardware (when compared to machines around the same time) that somehow fails in the larger market. The perfect example is the Lynx -- it was LIGHTYEARS ahead of anything else out there at the time. Way back when Atari DID have some money to do some advertising and promotion it let their bright shining star fade away. I don't think anybody disputes Atari's hardware. It's the lack of everything else that makes Atari a bad name in the gaming business.

[DracIsBack]

I think Atari should of faced the fact that they were never going to be #1, or #2 and just done like Neo Geo or Nintendo Game Cube and went after a nitch market.

 

Actually, that nitch market is still there, if they wanted it. And while Nintendo did sell like 50 times the systems of the Jaguar, I'd still call it a nich system as it did basically come out in third and their still aiming at just one audiance.

 

With Wii? I'd argue they are trying to broaden their audience.

 

Even the GameCube I'd argue had a broader audience then people realize. People assume "kiddie" games, but stuff like Resident Evil 4 was not "kiddie focused". lol

[S1500]

I bought a Jaguar for $50 on closeout, and still felt ripped off. The controller was awful, and the games were just outright off-brand depressing. It was the Playstation 3 of its day.

[+LS650]

See, that's what we call a personal opinion. I _love_ the controller and find it very comfortable. For the first time in gaming history, someone made a controller for adult-size hands.

[Gregory DG]

^^ Agreed LS. The controller is very comfortable. Esp the Pro.

[nester]

Well Jaguar was much better than I thought it was going to be, but I sure wish there were more worthwhile games for it. So far I haven't found any hidden treasures, and all the games that are supposed to be bad are worse than I expect. Atari probably didn't want to release that many updated classics on the Jag because that's what they had done on their 2 previous consoles, and that didn't work out so well. A system can be the most powerful thing in the world, but if it doesn't have the games it's not worth much. However, I still love my Jag, and I'll probably still hunt down ever piece of crap game complete in the box untiil I run out of money.

 

I'm a little surprised about all the 5200 bashing on here. If not for its flawed (but not horrible) controller I would be tempted to say that it was the best Atari system. I guess everybody sees things differently.

[Albert]

See, that's what we call a personal opinion. I _love_ the controller and find it very comfortable. For the first time in gaming history, someone made a controller for adult-size hands.

I agree, I think it's the best controller Atari made..

 

..Al

[Video]

I think Atari should of faced the fact that they were never going to be #1, or #2 and just done like Neo Geo or Nintendo Game Cube and went after a nitch market.

 

Actually, that nitch market is still there, if they wanted it. And while Nintendo did sell like 50 times the systems of the Jaguar, I'd still call it a nich system as it did basically come out in third and their still aiming at just one audiance.

 

With Wii? I'd argue they are trying to broaden their audience.

 

Even the GameCube I'd argue had a broader audience then people realize. People assume "kiddie" games, but stuff like Resident Evil 4 was not "kiddie focused". lol

Yeah, but for every RE game, there was only probably 50 or so Mario games (just no actual mario game, or I would have been there Yeah, there was Mario sunshine, but it's not the traditional action platformer I was hoping for) While there were a few games, very few, that catored to adults, for the most part, Nintendo is kiddie. That's not to say addults can't enjoy it, I love a lot of 'kiddie' games personally.

 

Besides, I was refering more to Atari, the Nich market is still there, if they wanted it. But it is fadeing....

 

As for the Jag Controller, I agree, it's the best controller Atari had, and the first controller I really loved (for many of the reasons mentioned above)

Edited March 20, 2007 by Video

[Gorf]

Um guys...I not one to usually correct spelling but since several of you have fumbled.......it's 'niche', not 'nitch', not 'nich'.

[Do The Math]

I actually think the Jaguar is Atari's best attempt at a console system. True, I came into the Atari thing late in the game but at the time when the Saturn, 3DO and PSX were all creating noise the Jaguar always fascinated me. The marketing was at the same level as the Saturn or 3DO and technically and price-wise, it appeared like it could hold its own against the competition.

 

What happened ultimately with the games and company is another story altogether but I think that has less to do w/ the system's potential and almost everything to do with the people running Atari.

[Trip_Cannon]

I actually think the Jaguar is Atari's best attempt at a console system. True, I came into the Atari thing late in the game but at the time when the Saturn, 3DO and PSX were all creating noise the Jaguar always fascinated me. The marketing was at the same level as the Saturn or 3DO and technically and price-wise, it appeared like it could hold its own against the competition.

 

What happened ultimately with the games and company is another story altogether but I think that has less to do w/ the system's potential and almost everything to do with the people running Atari.

 

Agreed...

[BuddyBuddies]

I actually think the Jaguar is Atari's best attempt at a console system. True, I came into the Atari thing late in the game but at the time when the Saturn, 3DO and PSX were all creating noise the Jaguar always fascinated me. The marketing was at the same level as the Saturn or 3DO and technically and price-wise, it appeared like it could hold its own against the competition.

 

What happened ultimately with the games and company is another story altogether but I think that has less to do w/ the system's potential and almost everything to do with the people running Atari.

 

Agreed...

VERY MUCH AGREED,LOL,its because of the 5200 and the 7800 that the Jaguar did poorly in sales and marketing,they damaged their reputation in the late 80's,those systems were terrible really,the great 2600 started the legacy and the mighty Jaguar finished it,i think however as far as controller goes its the most reliable too(IMHO),and as far as games go,there arent that many,but i really think they have a decent library and growing slowly, and the most advanced hardware of any of their game systems and any system in that era period...i have always been fascinated by the jaguar,it had so many possibilities and still does.

[ovalbugmann]

the jaguar,it had so many possibilities and still does.

 

This makes me feel like the Jaguar is not a dead system! and makes up for what Atari didn't do during the Jaguar's commercial lifespan - delivering the goods/games. Because we still have Jaguar support! That's more than the 3DO or Phillips CDi can say, although there's hundreds of games available for the 3DO because of all the 3rd party game developers it had. But the Jaguar is now living the equivilent of "console heaven" with own community of enthusists and developers.

 

Edited May 13, 2007 by ovalbugmann