Can you get into a complex classic?

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Let me explain this question a bit:

 

For example, when I browse through lemon64, I find game entries like these for example:

Wasteland

Airborne Ranger

 

Now, as you can see, they have incredible high ratings, and comments full of praise by the dozen.

 

I never ever played those two before. I'm curious what all the fuzz is about and I want play them myself.

 

Next thing I realize that they require reading a 100 page manual and they seem complex enough to require the investment of some serious work and time to learn how to play them.

 

So, my usual reaction then is like, "ah... oh... maybe try this one on another day"

 

Anyone have some tips for me how to ever make it past that kind of hurdle? I feel I'm missing so much, yet I cannot seem to force myself into complex games these days - unless I already played them back in the day

 

Don't focus on the two games, that's just two random examples.

[Lemmi]

i know how you feel, but im not gonna be any help since i cant get into complex games either, as by the time i learn it my A.D.D. takes over and i quit playing to do something else usually non videogame related

[Pixelboy]

Getting into those kinds of games, especially when you have never played them before, is a two-step process.

 

First, reserve one full day of your time to play it. Maybe a Saturday or a Sunday. Mark it on your agenda, and don't make any other commitments for that day. This should be considered your "introduction day" to the game, and you must NOT think beyond that single day. Your goal throughout this day is to familiarize yourself with the game. Read the manual more or less quickly if you have it, and don't think too much about getting far into the game.

 

By the end of that "intro" day, you will know if you like this game or not. If yes, then you will probably have no problem at all reserving other days (or at least evenings) to play your exciting new game. Also by the end of that day, you will know enough about the game to understand its vocabulary, and so if you have questions about the game, you can talk to other knowledgeable players on the net who can guide you.

 

Go west, young man! Go west! ( <-- imagine that's a cowboy hat... Heh.)

[Chris++]

Airborne Ranger is basically an arcade game. It`s easy to figure out, once you know the keyboard commands.

 

In fact, let`s see if I can remember....it`s been years, but you know how these things can stick in the head....space bar = crawl on stomach or return upright, F1 = machine gun, F3 = grenade, F5 = LAW Rocket, F7 = knife....Commodore Key = use first aid....X = Call your plane back (from the pick-up zone -- you`ll know you`re standing on it if you turn blue).

 

The ones I have a hard time believing I played for hours are the super-slow games, like Elite. Amazing, the patience we conjured back when there weren`t faster boxes out there!

[darthkur]

I too have felt like I'm "missing out" on these types of games and likewise can not seem to make myself take the time to fully acquaint myself with all of the intricacies of a complex game. I own several of them that I acquired in lots and haven't even tried them out yet. There's just so many games that I am familiar with that provides instant gratification. I must admit though I do have issues with both my attention span and memory.

[potatohead]

One thing that really helps is to know somebody who is into the game!

 

At least that way, you've somebody to share with and get some energy from! Back when the games were released, this was an important dynamic. Without it, it's a much tougher experience.

 

Maybe someobdy can jump on IRC or something to get you into one you feel is worth the trouble?

[Cybergoth]

First, reserve one full day of your time to play it.

 

I should mention that I'm married with children, I didn't have "a full day of *my* time" in 5 years

[Cybergoth]

One thing that really helps is to know somebody who is into the game!

 

That's interesting thoughts. Maybe the opposite would work as well? I mean instead of finding a pro to babysit me, rather find (an)other noob(s) interested in the game and try getting there together?

[Pixelboy]

First, reserve one full day of your time to play it.

 

I should mention that I'm married with children, I didn't have "a full day of *my* time" in 5 years

Oh, well then, stick to arcade ports.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Pixelboy

[potatohead]

One thing that really helps is to know somebody who is into the game!

 

That's interesting thoughts. Maybe the opposite would work as well? I mean instead of finding a pro to babysit me, rather find (an)other noob(s) interested in the game and try getting there together?

 

Yeah, that will totally work the same way!

 

The idea being you need to be able to share the experience and get the energy for that in order for it to actually be worth something. A co-worker and I did this with an older Ultima RPG for the Apple. We setup the emulators originally to play the Oregon Trail. I had talked about how cool Ultima II was, he was younger and had never played. He was into things like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, etc...

 

So, we dug into those games, enjoying the genre. Good fun for about a year or so.

[AussieAtari]

I agree with Pixelboy, but having a combination of your issue (married with kids) and Lemmi's (ADD) I put an hour or so in one night a week after everyone has gone to bed or is immersed in their own thing.

 

I find that 1 hour is enough to let me know if I have the interest and the time to get into a complex game, classic or not.

 

Often it is the older games that cause me to look up and see that 4 hours have already passed!

 

Whatever it is, it has to be able to support 1-2 hours play time maximum otherwise it just does not work out for me. So games with long delays between providing passwords/save points tend to take a heck of a lot longer than they should (James Pond on the GBA for example).

[Rik]

As soon as i saw SPACE SHUTTLES inst manual,i put game away and havent even plugged it in my 2600.One of the things i love about classic gaming is the simplicity,plug in and play,unlike todays games where you have to memorize 30 different moves just to play a game.My hats off to SPACE SHUTTLE as a very well designed game though,but too complex for my taste.

[vdub_bobby]

It's an interesting question. I frequently shy away from games that look like big time-sinks, like RPGs and most modern sports games.

 

On the other hand, I did just recently learn and play two fairly complex Genesis games (though not 100-page-manual complex ); both were games that took an hour or so of "play" before I felt like I was actually playing the game.

 

As I think back on it - I think it helped to play on a real console, rather than in emulation. I'm more comfortable sitting on the couch than at my computer, the controls are more comfortable, the screen is bigger. Also, I was "in the mood" for that kind of gaming, unlike last night, for example, when I plowed through about 8 NES/Genesis games in two hours, looking for a quick fix. And, as a fellow dad, it is of course necessary to have at least an hour or two of (mostly) uninterrupted playing time so I can focus on what is going on.

 

BTW: The two games were Desert Strike and LHX: Attack Chopper. Coincidentally, both helicopter games.

[Trooper]

I just wanted to say that Airborne Ranger is definetely worth keeping at until you get the hang of it. I haven't played it for years but it can't be that hard because when I first played it I was only 8 or 9 and didn't know very much english at all and the manual was all english

 

/T

[+remowilliams]

I never ever played those two before. I'm curious what all the fuzz is about and I want play them myself.

 

Next thing I realize that they require reading a 100 page manual and they seem complex enough to require the investment of some serious work and time to learn how to play them.

I find that one of the biggest hurdles that people have getting into a 'complex' game is psyching themselves out trying to pre read as much material and research as much as they can, and do everything possible to try and get 'just the right' gaming experience. Just relax, read a little bit on it and have a go at it

 

Wasteland is a true classic, but I don't think you really need to go nuts to get into it. Generating your own characters in an RPG will usually take quite a bit of time though as compared to taking the stock set. Definitely give it a look though.

[shadow460]

For the most part, no. This is what's kept me from playing 5200 Star Raiders or 7800 Alien Brigade. I see that Alien Brigade manual scan in the database, and I just wanna crawl under a rock. Yet I can't figure it out.

 

I have not dived into Zelda I yet, either, for the same reason. If I played it back in the day, I can hop right in, though. I'm almost always up for a Final Fantasy that I've played before. Case in point--I'll play FF7 and FF8, but I have yet to scratch the surface of FF5. I'll play FF legend I and III, but since I never played II back in the day, I just cannot get into it at all now.

 

I did do myself a hughe favor, though, and I sat down with Shining Force: The Sword of Hajya. Even as old as it is, it was a very enjoyable game, and I could not put my Game Gear down for a couple of months. And I don't normally even like strategy RPGs!

[potatohead]

Not playing Star Raiders is a big mistake.

 

The learning curve is not anywhere near what you think it is. Just put the thing on novice and start doing stuff. After 1 hour, you will either grok the game and really want to play it, or you just won't.

 

Reading the manual can happen after you've had some fun and want more.

[shadow460]

Not playing Star Raiders is a big mistake.

 

The learning curve is not anywhere near what you think it is. Just put the thing on novice and start doing stuff. After 1 hour, you will either grok the game and really want to play it, or you just won't.

 

Reading the manual can happen after you've had some fun and want more.

 

That's just exactly what I did this evening. It's not too bad of a game actually.

[potatohead]

Cool! Glad you enjoyed it.

 

It's a pretty solid game, as far as I'm concerned. Graphically, it's not the best demonstration of the system, but gameplay wise, it really raised the bar right out of the gate.

 

Long ago, a friends parents bought an 800 for Xmas, and snagged the Star Raiders cart. We played the thing for hours on end. Frankly, it made a lot of other games of the time seem shallow.

 

Does the 5200 version have the slowdowns on explosions?

[Cybergoth]

I just wanted to say that Airborne Ranger is definetely worth keeping at until you get the hang of it. I haven't played it for years but it can't be that hard because when I first played it I was only 8 or 9 and didn't know very much english at all and the manual was all english

 

Ok, I tried playing it some. At first I was a bit confused why I was exploding every few steps I made, but after a couple of tries I realized that that I was walking over mindfields all the time. So you're supposed to constantly switch to the map to avoid those?

 

Anyway, I think this really is a game I might enjoy, kinda like a thinking mans Commando. Or Ikari Warriors if you prefer

[Tempest]

Wasteland is one of those games that is very rewarding to play, but can be confusing as all hell the first time you try it. About 60% of those skills you can start with are useless, as are most of the items (mirror, match, and jewelry can all be sold). Once you figure out what you need to keep and what you can get rid of, the game is much more interesting. Of course you need the paragraphs book or you're not going to get more than 5% of the story.

 

Since I've played Wasteland so many times, I like to try and do things out of order when I play now. Usually I try to make it up to Darwin right after finishing up Quartz and buy the more advanced weapons so I can try and take on the Citadel. Taking on the Citadel is possible with low level characters if you're extremely lucky and using some advanced tactics (bring about 100 clips for your assault rifle though). Once you have the laser weapons the rest of the game is cake until you hit Sleeper Base.

 

Tempest

[Chris++]

Ok, I tried playing it some. At first I was a bit confused why I was exploding every few steps I made, but after a couple of tries I realized that that I was walking over mindfields all the time. So you`re supposed to constantly switch to the map to avoid those?

 

You can see the minefields if you look at the ground -- they basically look like a bunch of little X`s. You can clear them away with grenades, but make sure to stand back far enough to avoid getting hit by the shrapnel.

 

A plan I found to work well is to wait to drop your supplies until half the map has scrolled by, since it helps to stock up pretty quickly and have all the first aid you can. The extra ammo, etc. doesn`t slow you down at all. I like to drop them just south of long trenches, since you can avoid damage if you crawl up the map using the trenches. That`s usually how I plan my route. You can pop up once in a while to shoot a bad guy who hasn`t noticed you sneaking through the trench (this might be the first video game with enemies who don`t notice you when you`re being stealthy).

 

A couple commands I left out: Either of the cursor keys switches you to running mode, while pressing both of them switches back to walking. The white bar near the top is the running meter -- when it`s full, the game forces you to just walk until your apparently easily tired-out soldier can run again. The other weapon is the time bomb. I think you can press 5 for a 5-second bomb, but I can`t remember how to drop a 10 or 15. They work well at the sides of concrete bunkers if you`re out of LAW rockets (the other kind, which look wooden, can just be grenaded). No bunker can fire straight left or right at ninety degrees, so that`s a good way to approach them.

 

And there`s far more strategy than you wanted.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Chris++

[Video]

Actually, especially in older games, I found the books to actually be over instructive (to the point of many times making no scense) I always found it faster to chunk the book and just play the game. Useually I can figure it out in a few minutes (unless it's something REALLY weird)

[shadow460]

Unfortunately, yes, the 5200 Star Raiders does have some slowdown. It's not critical, though. If you want something slick and fast, that's what Phaser Patrol and the VCS are for.

[potatohead]

Unfortunately, yes, the 5200 Star Raiders does have some slowdown. It's not critical, though. If you want something slick and fast, that's what Phaser Patrol and the VCS are for.

 

Yep. That's a rock solid title.

 

Funny, it must depend somewhat on which one you played first! For me, Star Raiders was the better game. Of course I liked the slowdown. Defender --the arcade version, will do the same thing at times when you hit the bombers with a lot going on. Cool stuff.

 

I bought a SuperCharger right when they arrived in the stores, based on the EG review of the game Phaser Patrol. For the 2600, it's an excellent effort. Graphically, it's really solid.