2600 Rom Comparisions and Dumps

Tempest · October 20, 2008

That's why I asked. I know of only one person who has those roms (with the exception of R&B and Locomotion), so I was curious if they got leaked somehow. After all this time it seems silly that they still can't be released, but I suppose that's due to BSR being a company now. A company that can be sued for copyright issues...

Tempest

Rom Hunter · October 20, 2008

A different cassette loader only...all changes occur PAST the initial 6k:

Interesting that the "preview"'s loader has so much that is zeroed.

Interesting.

Thanks.

Ok, I checked all the Arcadia / Starpath ROMs and renamed some of them.

None removed, though.

Thomas Jentzsch · October 20, 2008

I was curious if they got leaked somehow.

I found those ROMs at Atarimania too, dated 2/8/07. The one I know about has a different date (2006).

Rom Hunter · October 20, 2008

That's why I asked. I know of only one person who has those roms (with the exception of R&B and Locomotion), so I was curious if they got leaked somehow.

Well, I don't own any BSR ROMs, except for Rocky & Bullwinkle.

AFAIC these guys can choke in it.

Impaler_26 · October 20, 2008

Huh. Interesting.

Do you have any of the unreleased Intellivision (M-Network) protos?

Tempest

Nope, i haven't found any in my folder.

I was curious if they got leaked somehow.

I found those ROMs at Atarimania too, dated 2/8/07...

Yep, that's the one i have so i guess i also downloaded it from Atarimania. I'm searching the net for 2600-roms since about 4 1/2 years and it's a bit hard to remember where i found every single rom i have.

alex_79 · October 20, 2008

I played a few round of "Laser Base" (a game which is part of my collection from childhood) in stella and noticed that enemies in waves 4 and 5 aren't animated. So I dumped my cart and found that the rom is indeed different. Here it is.

laserbase.zip

I used distella to show differences in graphics tables and aside from the diference in animations, I found graphics data from the game "War 2000" in my dump!

some side by side comparison between the graphics tables (the new dump on the left)

enemies animation frames:

	   .byte $1C; |   XXX  | $FE66				  |		   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE66
   .byte $8E; |X   XXX | $FE67				  |		   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE67
   .byte $DF; |XX XXXXX| $FE68				  |		   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE68
   .byte $FB; |XXXXX XX| $FE69				  |		   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE69
   .byte $79; | XXXX  X| $FE6A				  |		   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE6A
   .byte $3C; |  XXXX  | $FE6B				  |		   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE6B

   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE6C					   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE6C
   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE6D					   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE6D
   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6E					   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6E
   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6F					   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6F
   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE70					   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE70
   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE71					   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE71

   .byte $38; |  XXX   | $FE72				  |		   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE72
   .byte $71; | XXX   X| $FE73				  |		   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE73
   .byte $FB; |XXXXX XX| $FE74				  |		   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE74
   .byte $DF; |XX XXXXX| $FE75				  |		   .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE75
   .byte $9E; |X  XXXX | $FE76				  |		   .byte $66; | XX  XX | $FE76
   .byte $3C; |  XXXX  | $FE77				  |		   .byte $24; |  X  X  | $FE77

   .byte $44; | X   X  | $FE78				  |		   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FE78
   .byte $A2; |X X   X | $FE79				  |		   .byte $64; | XX  X  | $FE79
   .byte $1C; |   XXX  | $FE7A				  |		   .byte $9C; |X  XXX  | $FE7A
   .byte $38; |  XXX   | $FE7B				  |		   .byte $39; |  XXX  X| $FE7B
   .byte $45; | X   X X| $FE7C				  |		   .byte $26; |  X  XX | $FE7C
   .byte $22; |  X   X | $FE7D				  |		   .byte $10; |   X	| $FE7D

   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FE7E					   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FE7E
   .byte $64; | XX  X  | $FE7F					   .byte $64; | XX  X  | $FE7F
   .byte $9C; |X  XXX  | $FE80					   .byte $9C; |X  XXX  | $FE80
   .byte $39; |  XXX  X| $FE81					   .byte $39; |  XXX  X| $FE81
   .byte $26; |  X  XX | $FE82					   .byte $26; |  X  XX | $FE82
   .byte $10; |   X	| $FE83					   .byte $10; |   X	| $FE83

   .byte $30; |  XX	| $FE84				  |		   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FE84
   .byte $08; |	X   | $FE85				  |		   .byte $64; | XX  X  | $FE85
   .byte $79; | XXXX  X| $FE86				  |		   .byte $9C; |X  XXX  | $FE86
   .byte $9E; |X  XXXX | $FE87				  |		   .byte $39; |  XXX  X| $FE87
   .byte $10; |   X	| $FE88				  |		   .byte $26; |  X  XX | $FE88
   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FE89				  |		   .byte $10; |   X	| $FE89

graphics data from war 2000:

	   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FC21				  |		   .byte $8A; |X   X X | $FC21
   .byte $38; |  XXX   | $FC22				  |		   .byte $E9; |XXX X  X| $FC22
   .byte $1C; |   XXX  | $FC23				  |		   .byte $00; |		| $FC23
   .byte $17; |   X XXX| $FC24				  |		   .byte $85; |X	X X| $FC24
   .byte $1C; |   XXX  | $FC25				  |		   .byte $8A; |X   X X | $FC25
   .byte $38; |  XXX   | $FC26				  |		   .byte $A5; |X X  X X| $FC26
   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FC27				  |		   .byte $AE; |X X XXX | $FC27

   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FC49				  |		   .byte $10; |   X	| $FC49
   .byte $38; |  XXX   | $FC4A				  |		   .byte $04; |	 X  | $FC4A
   .byte $FC; |XXXXXX  | $FC4B				  |		   .byte $C8; |XX  X   | $FC4B
   .byte $17; |   X XXX| $FC4C				  |		   .byte $4C; | X  XX  | $FC4C
   .byte $FC; |XXXXXX  | $FC4D				  |		   .byte $47; | X   XXX| $FC4D
   .byte $38; |  XXX   | $FC4E				  |		   .byte $2C; |  X XX  | $FC4E
   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FC4F				  |		   .byte $C8; |XX  X   | $FC4F

   .byte $02; |	  X | $FD6A				  |		   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FD6A
   .byte $03; |	  XX| $FD6B				  |		   .byte $20; |  X	 | $FD6B
   .byte $07; |	 XXX| $FD6C				  |		   .byte $C5; |XX   X X| $FD6C
   .byte $06; |	 XX | $FD6D				  |		   .byte $2D; |  X XX X| $FD6D
   .byte $06; |	 XX | $FD6E				  |		   .byte $A0; |X X	 | $FD6E
   .byte $00; |		| $FD6F				  |		   .byte $0A; |	X X | $FD6F
   .byte $00; |		| $FD70				  |		   .byte $A9; |X X X  X| $FD70
   .byte $00; |		| $FD71				  |		   .byte $0C; |	XX  | $FD71
   .byte $00; |		| $FD72				  |		   .byte $91; |X  X   X| $FD72
   .byte $00; |		| $FD73				  |		   .byte $AC; |X X XX  | $FD73
   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FD74				  |		   .byte $4C; | X  XX  | $FD74
   .byte $B0; |X XX	| $FD75				  |		   .byte $1F; |   XXXXX| $FD75
   .byte $F0; |XXXX	| $FD76				  |		   .byte $2E; |  X XXX | $FD76
   .byte $F8; |XXXXX   | $FD77				  |		   .byte $85; |X	X X| $FD77
   .byte $E8; |XXX X   | $FD78				  |		   .byte $AB; |X X X XX| $FD78
   .byte $78; | XXXX   | $FD79				  |		   .byte $68; | XX X   | $FD79
   .byte $50; | X X	| $FD7A				  |		   .byte $85; |X	X X| $FD7A
   .byte $70; | XXX	| $FD7B				  |		   .byte $AA; |X X X X | $FD7B
   .byte $20; |  X	 | $FD7C				  |		   .byte $A0; |X X	 | $FD7C
   .byte $00; |		| $FD7D					   .byte $00; |		| $FD7D
   .byte $00; |		| $FD7E				  |		   .byte $B1; |X XX   X| $FD7E
   .byte $00; |		| $FD7F				  |		   .byte $AA; |X X X X | $FD7F
   .byte $00; |		| $FD80				  |		   .byte $D0; |XX X	| $FD80
   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FD81				  |		   .byte $DF; |XX XXXXX| $FD81
   .byte $E0; |XXX	 | $FD82				  |		   .byte $68; | XX X   | $FD82
   .byte $F0; |XXXX	| $FD83				  |		   .byte $A8; |X X X   | $FD83
   .byte $70; | XXX	| $FD84				  |		   .byte $68; | XX X   | $FD84
   .byte $70; | XXX	| $FD85				  |		   .byte $60; | XX	 | $FD85
   .byte $30; |  XX	| $FD86				  |		   .byte $48; | X  X   | $FD86
   .byte $20; |  X	 | $FD87				  |		   .byte $98; |X  XX   | $FD87
   .byte $00; |		| $FD88				  |		   .byte $48; | X  X   | $FD88
   .byte $02; |	  X | $FD89				  |		   .byte $8A; |X   X X | $FD89
   .byte $03; |	  XX| $FD8A				  |		   .byte $48; | X  X   | $FD8A
   .byte $07; |	 XXX| $FD8B				  |		   .byte $A2; |X X   X | $FD8B
   .byte $06; |	 XX | $FD8C				  |		   .byte $02; |	  X | $FD8C
   .byte $06; |	 XX | $FD8D				  |		   .byte $A0; |X X	 | $FD8D

+Mitch · October 20, 2008

Yeah I've been meaning to post my 2600 proto roms for awhile now, but I need to look through and see which ones I promised not to release. I think it's only four or five of them at this point (Turbo, Locomotion, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Dune, Kyphus). I'll try and get to this by next week.

Tempest

The Dune and Rocky & Bullwinkle protos both made it out by themselves.

Mitch

The Kyphus proto is also already out.

It is? Who released it? The owner?

Tempest

To be honest i have no idea who released it and i also can't remember where i downloaded it, just stumbled over it in my roms-folder.

You're right I missed that one when I went and checked my stash against Tempest's list. I don't have locomotion or turbo, though I did get to hold the turbo proto in my hand for a couple of minutes.

Mitch

Rom Hunter · October 20, 2008

I played a few round of "Laser Base" (a game which is part of my collection from childhood) in stella and noticed that enemies in waves 4 and 5 aren't animated. So I dumped my cart and found that the rom is indeed different. Here it is.

I used distella to show differences in graphics tables and aside from the diference in animations, I found graphics data from the game "War 2000" in my dump!

That's very well possible.

ITT took over quite some Home Vision games.

Many thanks for the ROM, Alex!

Really appreciate it.

Thomas Jentzsch · October 20, 2008

Very interesting. Looks like your Laser Base is somewhat a missing link between both games.

														0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7
0 War 2000 (AKA Astrowar) (1983) (Home Vision - Gem I   · 89 89 88 22 14 14 14
1 Astrowar (Astrobattle) (Dimax - Sinmax) (SM8002) (P   =  ·100 99 27 10 10 10
2 Astrowar (1983) (Goliath) (2) (PAL)················   =  =  · 99 27 10 10 10
3 Astrowar (Arctic) (SM8002)·························   =  =  =  · 27 10 10 10
4 laserbase··········································  27 31 31 31  · 80 80 80
5 World End (1983) (Home Vision - Gem Int'l Corp.) (V  17 13 13 13  =  ·100 99
6 Laser Base (AKA World End) (Perry Rhodan-Serie) (19  17 13 13 13  =  =  · 99
7 World End (2600 Screen Search Console) (Jone Yuan T  17 13 13 13  =  =  =  ·

About 20% of the code in laserbase is from Astrowar.

Rom Hunter · October 20, 2008

Interesting.

Thanks for comparing, Thomas.

Something else:

At DP I had a discussion about the origins of Challenge.

Could you compare all versions to see which one of these is the first version:

Challenge_Roms.zip

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

If it helps Thomas, I did a integrated version of all the Challenges a while back. Still rough, but better then nothing.

Challenge_all_Ver_.zip

Edited October 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

Rom, the HES challenge is an over dump. I split if off here for you:

Challenge__HES___PAL__4k.bin

The Quelle, NTSC Unknown, and the 208 in 1 version seem to come later. This is because it looks like there is bit rot in the clear loop, and is common to both:

START:
CLD
;===============================
;Quelle, NTSC Unknown, 208 in 1
.byte $E2,$00

;all other versions
LDX	#0
;===============================
LDA	#0
.loopClear:
STA	0,X
TXS
INX
BNE	.loopClear

It looks like one pirated a bit rotted rom, and then it was stolen again! The 208 in 1 rom (#36, called Duck) seems to come after the Quelle rom because it has a value of $C9 at $FFFE while all other versions have $AA there. Any how none of these are the originals, so that just leaves the HES version, and the Zellers version.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

I originally had PAL Unknown for the NTSC Unknown in the disassembly. I just fixed it now. I made this mistake because that is what Stella listed it as. When I checked the scan line count though it was only 276 lines; so if you are reading this Stephena you might want to change the .pro file.

This comes up as PAL unknown in Stella, but is NTSC:

Challenge__Unknown_.bin

Interesting thing I found a while back is the Funvision logo is still buried in the HES rom. The code has been changed so it doesn't display on the screen. We can't say they did this hack as they could have stolen it off somebody else who already crippled the logo, but one thing for sure is HES is not the original company. This might be the earliest version of this rom so far though.

Tempest · October 21, 2008

Ok here are my 2600 prototypes. I removed Locomotion, Turbo, and Haunted House (Graves Manor) because the owners have asked me not to release them.

Tempest

2600protos.zip

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

The 8 in 1 mutlticart would have been a good choice. The Centipede is completely screwed on it as noted on AtariProtos.com. The differences in the other games seem to be in hotspots.

Of note Asteroids matched the pal [a1] version, and Fireworld matched the pal [a] version. The 8 in 1 was found as eprom, so it would have been dumped with an eprom reader which should be read the hotspot correctly.

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

BTW Matt thanks for sharing. I really liked the way you kept everything in seperate folders. Makes it nice and neat.

Tempest · October 21, 2008

BTW Matt thanks for sharing. I really liked the way you kept everything in seperate folders. Makes it nice and neat.

My pleasure. I should have done this long ago, but no one ever seemed to be all that interested.

If anyone finds new information about these protos that's not on my site, please tell me. I only played them, I never disassembled them.

I'll try and post my 5200 protos sometime in the next week.

Tempest

Hornpipe2 · October 21, 2008

Ok here are my 2600 prototypes. I removed Locomotion, Turbo, and Haunted House (Graves Manor) because the owners have asked me not to release them.

Tempest

This is fantastic - what a cool collection!

Rom Hunter · October 21, 2008

Many, many thanks, Matt.

I'm going to add the ones I didn't already have to the V4 collection.

Thanks for the info, Omega.

Thomas, what are your findings about the Challenge ROMs I posted.

Does CloneSpy point out an 'original' version?

Thomas Jentzsch · October 21, 2008

Rom, the HES challenge is an over dump.

Nope. Its a 2 in 1 cart (can't remember the other game in it).

Thomas Jentzsch · October 21, 2008

Thomas, what are your findings about the Challenge ROMs I posted.

Does CloneSpy point out an 'original' version?

I am afraid, no.

																 0  1  2  3  4
0 Challenge (Zellers)·········································   · 96 96 96 53
1 Challenge (Unknown)·········································   =  · 99 99 54
2 Challenge (Unknown) (PAL)···································   =  =  · 99 54
3 Mein Weg - My Way (AKA Challenge) (1983) (Quelle) (686.561 2   =  =  =  · 54
4 Challenge (HES) (PAL)·······································  95 99 99 99  ·

All are very similar, only #1 shows some minor differences (logo?). And #4 clearly contains a 2nd game.

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

Rom, the HES challenge is an over dump.

Nope. Its a 2 in 1 cart (can't remember the other game in it).

Yes, but the 2 in 1 is also 16k. They extra room is used for the menu select screen. The rom Rom posted is 8k (Challenge is a 4k game), and has Surfer's Paradise in the other half. When split Surfer's Paradise doesn't function on its own. I don't seem able to access it in emulation. I'm not sure if this was just split off the 16k rom (which would make sense), but it can further be split into a 4k rom.

Rom Hunter · October 21, 2008

Thomas, what are your findings about the Challenge ROMs I posted.

Does CloneSpy point out an 'original' version?

I am afraid, no.

																 0  1  2  3  4
0 Challenge (Zellers)·········································   · 96 96 96 53
1 Challenge (Unknown)·········································   =  · 99 99 54
2 Challenge (Unknown) (PAL)···································   =  =  · 99 54
3 Mein Weg - My Way (AKA Challenge) (1983) (Quelle) (686.561 2   =  =  =  · 54
4 Challenge (HES) (PAL)·······································  95 99 99 99  ·

All are very similar, only #1 shows some minor differences (logo?). And #4 clearly contains a 2nd game.

Thanks, Thomas.

Omega, you should have known that there was another game on the HES Challenge ROM.

The game is Surfer's Paradise:

http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...VERSION_ID=7837

Better remove that split up 4K ROM, before it causes confusion.

So, the Zellers version is most probably the oldest version.

It contains a visible Funvision logo, but it's NTSC.

The speeded up music doesn't sound too comfortable.

My guess is that there's still an original Funvision PAL cart out there.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Rom Hunter

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

Omega, you should have known that there was another game on the HES Challenge ROM.

Yes, I knew even before I split the rom. Challenge needs to be split off for comparision as the Video Gem games will throw off TJ's Clonespy.

Omegamatrix · October 21, 2008

Here is the comparision with the roms all even:

				   *** ATARI 2600 CloneSpy Lister v1.4 ***
				   (c)2000/2003 - Thomas Jentzsch

(1/5)															 0  1  2  3  4
0 Challenge (HES) (PAL) [4k]··································	· 98 98 98 95
1 Challenge (Unknown)·········································	=  · 99 99 96
2 Challenge (Unknown) (PAL)···································	=  =  · 99 96
3 Mein Weg - My Way (AKA Challenge) (1983) (Quelle) (686.561 2	=  =  =  · 96
4 Challenge (Zellers)·········································	=  =  =  =  ·

Unique files:	1
Total files :	5

Thomas what do you think?

So, the Zellers version is most probably the oldest version.

It contains a visible Funvision logo, but it's NTSC.

The speeded up music doesn't sound too comfortable.

My guess is that there's still an original Funvision PAL cart out there.

I absolutely agree this game has to a PAL original. No way the music would be speed up on purpose.

2600 Rom Comparisions and Dumps

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