Tempest #476 Posted October 20, 2008 That's why I asked. I know of only one person who has those roms (with the exception of R&B and Locomotion), so I was curious if they got leaked somehow. After all this time it seems silly that they still can't be released, but I suppose that's due to BSR being a company now. A company that can be sued for copyright issues... Tempest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom Hunter #477 Posted October 20, 2008 A different cassette loader only...all changes occur PAST the initial 6k: Interesting that the "preview"'s loader has so much that is zeroed. Interesting. Thanks. Ok, I checked all the Arcadia / Starpath ROMs and renamed some of them. None removed, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Jentzsch #478 Posted October 20, 2008 I was curious if they got leaked somehow. I found those ROMs at Atarimania too, dated 2/8/07. The one I know about has a different date (2006). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom Hunter #479 Posted October 20, 2008 That's why I asked. I know of only one person who has those roms (with the exception of R&B and Locomotion), so I was curious if they got leaked somehow. Well, I don't own any BSR ROMs, except for Rocky & Bullwinkle. AFAIC these guys can choke in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Impaler_26 #480 Posted October 20, 2008 Huh. Interesting. Do you have any of the unreleased Intellivision (M-Network) protos? Tempest Nope, i haven't found any in my folder. I was curious if they got leaked somehow. I found those ROMs at Atarimania too, dated 2/8/07... Yep, that's the one i have so i guess i also downloaded it from Atarimania. I'm searching the net for 2600-roms since about 4 1/2 years and it's a bit hard to remember where i found every single rom i have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alex_79 #481 Posted October 20, 2008 I played a few round of "Laser Base" (a game which is part of my collection from childhood) in stella and noticed that enemies in waves 4 and 5 aren't animated. So I dumped my cart and found that the rom is indeed different. Here it is. laserbase.zip I used distella to show differences in graphics tables and aside from the diference in animations, I found graphics data from the game "War 2000" in my dump! some side by side comparison between the graphics tables (the new dump on the left) enemies animation frames: .byte $1C; | XXX | $FE66 | .byte $24; | X X | $FE66 .byte $8E; |X XXX | $FE67 | .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE67 .byte $DF; |XX XXXXX| $FE68 | .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE68 .byte $FB; |XXXXX XX| $FE69 | .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE69 .byte $79; | XXXX X| $FE6A | .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE6A .byte $3C; | XXXX | $FE6B | .byte $24; | X X | $FE6B .byte $24; | X X | $FE6C .byte $24; | X X | $FE6C .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE6D .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE6D .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6E .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6E .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6F .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE6F .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE70 .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE70 .byte $24; | X X | $FE71 .byte $24; | X X | $FE71 .byte $38; | XXX | $FE72 | .byte $24; | X X | $FE72 .byte $71; | XXX X| $FE73 | .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE73 .byte $FB; |XXXXX XX| $FE74 | .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE74 .byte $DF; |XX XXXXX| $FE75 | .byte $FF; |XXXXXXXX| $FE75 .byte $9E; |X XXXX | $FE76 | .byte $66; | XX XX | $FE76 .byte $3C; | XXXX | $FE77 | .byte $24; | X X | $FE77 .byte $44; | X X | $FE78 | .byte $0C; | XX | $FE78 .byte $A2; |X X X | $FE79 | .byte $64; | XX X | $FE79 .byte $1C; | XXX | $FE7A | .byte $9C; |X XXX | $FE7A .byte $38; | XXX | $FE7B | .byte $39; | XXX X| $FE7B .byte $45; | X X X| $FE7C | .byte $26; | X XX | $FE7C .byte $22; | X X | $FE7D | .byte $10; | X | $FE7D .byte $0C; | XX | $FE7E .byte $0C; | XX | $FE7E .byte $64; | XX X | $FE7F .byte $64; | XX X | $FE7F .byte $9C; |X XXX | $FE80 .byte $9C; |X XXX | $FE80 .byte $39; | XXX X| $FE81 .byte $39; | XXX X| $FE81 .byte $26; | X XX | $FE82 .byte $26; | X XX | $FE82 .byte $10; | X | $FE83 .byte $10; | X | $FE83 .byte $30; | XX | $FE84 | .byte $0C; | XX | $FE84 .byte $08; | X | $FE85 | .byte $64; | XX X | $FE85 .byte $79; | XXXX X| $FE86 | .byte $9C; |X XXX | $FE86 .byte $9E; |X XXXX | $FE87 | .byte $39; | XXX X| $FE87 .byte $10; | X | $FE88 | .byte $26; | X XX | $FE88 .byte $0C; | XX | $FE89 | .byte $10; | X | $FE89 graphics data from war 2000: .byte $60; | XX | $FC21 | .byte $8A; |X X X | $FC21 .byte $38; | XXX | $FC22 | .byte $E9; |XXX X X| $FC22 .byte $1C; | XXX | $FC23 | .byte $00; | | $FC23 .byte $17; | X XXX| $FC24 | .byte $85; |X X X| $FC24 .byte $1C; | XXX | $FC25 | .byte $8A; |X X X | $FC25 .byte $38; | XXX | $FC26 | .byte $A5; |X X X X| $FC26 .byte $60; | XX | $FC27 | .byte $AE; |X X XXX | $FC27 .byte $60; | XX | $FC49 | .byte $10; | X | $FC49 .byte $38; | XXX | $FC4A | .byte $04; | X | $FC4A .byte $FC; |XXXXXX | $FC4B | .byte $C8; |XX X | $FC4B .byte $17; | X XXX| $FC4C | .byte $4C; | X XX | $FC4C .byte $FC; |XXXXXX | $FC4D | .byte $47; | X XXX| $FC4D .byte $38; | XXX | $FC4E | .byte $2C; | X XX | $FC4E .byte $60; | XX | $FC4F | .byte $C8; |XX X | $FC4F .byte $02; | X | $FD6A | .byte $0C; | XX | $FD6A .byte $03; | XX| $FD6B | .byte $20; | X | $FD6B .byte $07; | XXX| $FD6C | .byte $C5; |XX X X| $FD6C .byte $06; | XX | $FD6D | .byte $2D; | X XX X| $FD6D .byte $06; | XX | $FD6E | .byte $A0; |X X | $FD6E .byte $00; | | $FD6F | .byte $0A; | X X | $FD6F .byte $00; | | $FD70 | .byte $A9; |X X X X| $FD70 .byte $00; | | $FD71 | .byte $0C; | XX | $FD71 .byte $00; | | $FD72 | .byte $91; |X X X| $FD72 .byte $00; | | $FD73 | .byte $AC; |X X XX | $FD73 .byte $60; | XX | $FD74 | .byte $4C; | X XX | $FD74 .byte $B0; |X XX | $FD75 | .byte $1F; | XXXXX| $FD75 .byte $F0; |XXXX | $FD76 | .byte $2E; | X XXX | $FD76 .byte $F8; |XXXXX | $FD77 | .byte $85; |X X X| $FD77 .byte $E8; |XXX X | $FD78 | .byte $AB; |X X X XX| $FD78 .byte $78; | XXXX | $FD79 | .byte $68; | XX X | $FD79 .byte $50; | X X | $FD7A | .byte $85; |X X X| $FD7A .byte $70; | XXX | $FD7B | .byte $AA; |X X X X | $FD7B .byte $20; | X | $FD7C | .byte $A0; |X X | $FD7C .byte $00; | | $FD7D .byte $00; | | $FD7D .byte $00; | | $FD7E | .byte $B1; |X XX X| $FD7E .byte $00; | | $FD7F | .byte $AA; |X X X X | $FD7F .byte $00; | | $FD80 | .byte $D0; |XX X | $FD80 .byte $60; | XX | $FD81 | .byte $DF; |XX XXXXX| $FD81 .byte $E0; |XXX | $FD82 | .byte $68; | XX X | $FD82 .byte $F0; |XXXX | $FD83 | .byte $A8; |X X X | $FD83 .byte $70; | XXX | $FD84 | .byte $68; | XX X | $FD84 .byte $70; | XXX | $FD85 | .byte $60; | XX | $FD85 .byte $30; | XX | $FD86 | .byte $48; | X X | $FD86 .byte $20; | X | $FD87 | .byte $98; |X XX | $FD87 .byte $00; | | $FD88 | .byte $48; | X X | $FD88 .byte $02; | X | $FD89 | .byte $8A; |X X X | $FD89 .byte $03; | XX| $FD8A | .byte $48; | X X | $FD8A .byte $07; | XXX| $FD8B | .byte $A2; |X X X | $FD8B .byte $06; | XX | $FD8C | .byte $02; | X | $FD8C .byte $06; | XX | $FD8D | .byte $A0; |X X | $FD8D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Mitch #482 Posted October 20, 2008 Yeah I've been meaning to post my 2600 proto roms for awhile now, but I need to look through and see which ones I promised not to release. I think it's only four or five of them at this point (Turbo, Locomotion, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Dune, Kyphus). I'll try and get to this by next week. Tempest The Dune and Rocky & Bullwinkle protos both made it out by themselves. Mitch The Kyphus proto is also already out. It is? Who released it? The owner? Tempest To be honest i have no idea who released it and i also can't remember where i downloaded it, just stumbled over it in my roms-folder. You're right I missed that one when I went and checked my stash against Tempest's list. I don't have locomotion or turbo, though I did get to hold the turbo proto in my hand for a couple of minutes. Mitch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom Hunter #483 Posted October 20, 2008 I played a few round of "Laser Base" (a game which is part of my collection from childhood) in stella and noticed that enemies in waves 4 and 5 aren't animated. So I dumped my cart and found that the rom is indeed different. Here it is. I used distella to show differences in graphics tables and aside from the diference in animations, I found graphics data from the game "War 2000" in my dump! That's very well possible. ITT took over quite some Home Vision games. Many thanks for the ROM, Alex! Really appreciate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Jentzsch #484 Posted October 20, 2008 Very interesting. Looks like your Laser Base is somewhat a missing link between both games. 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 War 2000 (AKA Astrowar) (1983) (Home Vision - Gem I · 89 89 88 22 14 14 14 1 Astrowar (Astrobattle) (Dimax - Sinmax) (SM8002) (P = ·100 99 27 10 10 10 2 Astrowar (1983) (Goliath) (2) (PAL)················ = = · 99 27 10 10 10 3 Astrowar (Arctic) (SM8002)························· = = = · 27 10 10 10 4 laserbase·········································· 27 31 31 31 · 80 80 80 5 World End (1983) (Home Vision - Gem Int'l Corp.) (V 17 13 13 13 = ·100 99 6 Laser Base (AKA World End) (Perry Rhodan-Serie) (19 17 13 13 13 = = · 99 7 World End (2600 Screen Search Console) (Jone Yuan T 17 13 13 13 = = = · About 20% of the code in laserbase is from Astrowar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom Hunter #485 Posted October 20, 2008 Interesting. Thanks for comparing, Thomas. Something else: At DP I had a discussion about the origins of Challenge. Could you compare all versions to see which one of these is the first version: Challenge_Roms.zip Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #486 Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) If it helps Thomas, I did a integrated version of all the Challenges a while back. Still rough, but better then nothing. Challenge_all_Ver_.zip Edited October 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #487 Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) Rom, the HES challenge is an over dump. I split if off here for you: Challenge__HES___PAL__4k.bin The Quelle, NTSC Unknown, and the 208 in 1 version seem to come later. This is because it looks like there is bit rot in the clear loop, and is common to both: START: CLD ;=============================== ;Quelle, NTSC Unknown, 208 in 1 .byte $E2,$00 ;all other versions LDX #0 ;=============================== LDA #0 .loopClear: STA 0,X TXS INX BNE .loopClear It looks like one pirated a bit rotted rom, and then it was stolen again! The 208 in 1 rom (#36, called Duck) seems to come after the Quelle rom because it has a value of $C9 at $FFFE while all other versions have $AA there. Any how none of these are the originals, so that just leaves the HES version, and the Zellers version. Edited October 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #488 Posted October 21, 2008 I originally had PAL Unknown for the NTSC Unknown in the disassembly. I just fixed it now. I made this mistake because that is what Stella listed it as. When I checked the scan line count though it was only 276 lines; so if you are reading this Stephena you might want to change the .pro file. This comes up as PAL unknown in Stella, but is NTSC: Challenge__Unknown_.bin Interesting thing I found a while back is the Funvision logo is still buried in the HES rom. The code has been changed so it doesn't display on the screen. We can't say they did this hack as they could have stolen it off somebody else who already crippled the logo, but one thing for sure is HES is not the original company. This might be the earliest version of this rom so far though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempest #489 Posted October 21, 2008 Ok here are my 2600 prototypes. I removed Locomotion, Turbo, and Haunted House (Graves Manor) because the owners have asked me not to release them. Tempest 2600protos.zip Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #490 Posted October 21, 2008 The 8 in 1 mutlticart would have been a good choice. The Centipede is completely screwed on it as noted on AtariProtos.com. The differences in the other games seem to be in hotspots. Of note Asteroids matched the pal [a1] version, and Fireworld matched the pal [a] version. The 8 in 1 was found as eprom, so it would have been dumped with an eprom reader which should be read the hotspot correctly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #491 Posted October 21, 2008 BTW Matt thanks for sharing. I really liked the way you kept everything in seperate folders. Makes it nice and neat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempest #492 Posted October 21, 2008 BTW Matt thanks for sharing. I really liked the way you kept everything in seperate folders. Makes it nice and neat. My pleasure. I should have done this long ago, but no one ever seemed to be all that interested. If anyone finds new information about these protos that's not on my site, please tell me. I only played them, I never disassembled them. I'll try and post my 5200 protos sometime in the next week. Tempest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hornpipe2 #493 Posted October 21, 2008 Ok here are my 2600 prototypes. I removed Locomotion, Turbo, and Haunted House (Graves Manor) because the owners have asked me not to release them. Tempest This is fantastic - what a cool collection! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom Hunter #494 Posted October 21, 2008 Many, many thanks, Matt. I'm going to add the ones I didn't already have to the V4 collection. Thanks for the info, Omega. Thomas, what are your findings about the Challenge ROMs I posted. Does CloneSpy point out an 'original' version? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Jentzsch #495 Posted October 21, 2008 Rom, the HES challenge is an over dump. Nope. Its a 2 in 1 cart (can't remember the other game in it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Jentzsch #496 Posted October 21, 2008 Thomas, what are your findings about the Challenge ROMs I posted. Does CloneSpy point out an 'original' version? I am afraid, no. 0 1 2 3 4 0 Challenge (Zellers)········································· · 96 96 96 53 1 Challenge (Unknown)········································· = · 99 99 54 2 Challenge (Unknown) (PAL)··································· = = · 99 54 3 Mein Weg - My Way (AKA Challenge) (1983) (Quelle) (686.561 2 = = = · 54 4 Challenge (HES) (PAL)······································· 95 99 99 99 · All are very similar, only #1 shows some minor differences (logo?). And #4 clearly contains a 2nd game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #497 Posted October 21, 2008 Rom, the HES challenge is an over dump. Nope. Its a 2 in 1 cart (can't remember the other game in it). Yes, but the 2 in 1 is also 16k. They extra room is used for the menu select screen. The rom Rom posted is 8k (Challenge is a 4k game), and has Surfer's Paradise in the other half. When split Surfer's Paradise doesn't function on its own. I don't seem able to access it in emulation. I'm not sure if this was just split off the 16k rom (which would make sense), but it can further be split into a 4k rom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom Hunter #498 Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) Thomas, what are your findings about the Challenge ROMs I posted. Does CloneSpy point out an 'original' version? I am afraid, no. 0 1 2 3 4 0 Challenge (Zellers)········································· · 96 96 96 53 1 Challenge (Unknown)········································· = · 99 99 54 2 Challenge (Unknown) (PAL)··································· = = · 99 54 3 Mein Weg - My Way (AKA Challenge) (1983) (Quelle) (686.561 2 = = = · 54 4 Challenge (HES) (PAL)······································· 95 99 99 99 · All are very similar, only #1 shows some minor differences (logo?). And #4 clearly contains a 2nd game. Thanks, Thomas. Omega, you should have known that there was another game on the HES Challenge ROM. The game is Surfer's Paradise: http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...VERSION_ID=7837 Better remove that split up 4K ROM, before it causes confusion. So, the Zellers version is most probably the oldest version. It contains a visible Funvision logo, but it's NTSC. The speeded up music doesn't sound too comfortable. My guess is that there's still an original Funvision PAL cart out there. Edited October 21, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #499 Posted October 21, 2008 Omega, you should have known that there was another game on the HES Challenge ROM. Yes, I knew even before I split the rom. Challenge needs to be split off for comparision as the Video Gem games will throw off TJ's Clonespy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Omegamatrix #500 Posted October 21, 2008 Here is the comparision with the roms all even: *** ATARI 2600 CloneSpy Lister v1.4 *** (c)2000/2003 - Thomas Jentzsch (1/5) 0 1 2 3 4 0 Challenge (HES) (PAL) [4k]·································· · 98 98 98 95 1 Challenge (Unknown)········································· = · 99 99 96 2 Challenge (Unknown) (PAL)··································· = = · 99 96 3 Mein Weg - My Way (AKA Challenge) (1983) (Quelle) (686.561 2 = = = · 96 4 Challenge (Zellers)········································· = = = = · Unique files: 1 Total files : 5 Thomas what do you think? So, the Zellers version is most probably the oldest version. It contains a visible Funvision logo, but it's NTSC. The speeded up music doesn't sound too comfortable. My guess is that there's still an original Funvision PAL cart out there. I absolutely agree this game has to a PAL original. No way the music would be speed up on purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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