dr. kwack Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Can anyone tell me if it is possible to use a mouse on the 800XL and if so, can I use an ST mouse or do I need another kind? Just curious as I am fooling around with EA's Movie Maker and using a joystick is just too awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eru Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Yes, you can use both Amiga and Atari ST mice. There is some software using it, but somehow nothing comes to my mind at this very moment. Well, Lepix tries to use it, but it doesn't work too well. If you're interested in how to code a mouse support, here's an example from Lepix: http://lepix.cvs.sourceforge.net/lepix/lep...mp;pathrev=MAIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Hello guys Check out my special stuff page and look for MOUSE.ARC, MOUSEINT.ARC and STM18BIT.TXT. BOSS, ATOS, Daimond GOS and SAM (all GUI's) will work with the ST Mouse, as will BOMBDOWN (an Atari 8 bit version of Minesweeper). There is probably more Atari 8 bit software that will work with ST or Amiga Mice. Greetings Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I remember seeing an advertisement in Antic magazine back in the 80's for an Atari 8-bit mouse called the "RAT." Anyone got one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Hello gregory The Rat isn't really a mouse. It really works like a joystick. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 The Rat isn't really a mouse. It really works like a joystick. Interesting. Looks like a mouse to me. http://www.backntime.net/Atari%20Computers...it3rdparty.html How does it work if it's not a mouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 (edited) Hello Gregory As I said, like a joystick. :-) Pushing it in a certain direction is like pushing a joystick in that direction. A mouse is more like a trackball. With a mouse (not the Rat) you can change the speed with which you move the mouse. And the computer will notice it. But with a joystick (including the Rat), the computer only notices when you change direction. They invented the Rat so you could use something that looks like a mouse, with software that was written with joysticks in mind. Greetings Mathy Edited May 13, 2007 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Is there a ball underneath? If so, it's basically like the Atari 2600 trak-ball that has only 8 directions of movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepax Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 From the Atari 8bit FAQ: Subject: 8.6) What programs have a track ball mode or support a mouse? Contributors: Andreas Magenheimer, Mirko Sobe Title Keystroke Required -------------- --------------------- - Missile Command by Atari CTRL-T - Slime by Synapse [T] - Shanghai by Activision choose controller type: ST mouse ! (plug it into port 2; if you do not have one, you have to reboot!!) - Bombdown by Roemer of Uno choose between Joystick, Amiga mouse, ST mouse or CX85 numeric keypad (use port 2 for any mice) - Minesweeper by Raindorf-Soft use an ST mouse in port 2 - The Brundles by KE-Soft use an ST mouse in port 2 - The Brundles Editor by KE-Soft, PD use an ST mouse in port 2 - Geisterschloss by KE-Soft, PD choose Lightgun (port 1) or ST mouse (port 2) - Vanish (ZONG, Vol. 5+6/1993); use an ST-mouse in port 2 - Hong Kong (ZONG, Vol. 5+6/1993); use an ST-mouse in port 2 - Maus-DOS (ZONG 5+6/1993); use an ST-mouse in port 2 - Faecher-Patience (ZONG 1/1993); use an ST-mouse in port 2 - Macao (Zong 5+6/1994); use an ST-mouse in port 2 - Multi-Mouse manager (PD) drivers for mice, TB, etc. - Multiplayer 2.1 by Madteam supports ST + Amiga mouse in port A - Unriagh I (german PD adventure) has drivers for ST mouse+Joystick (stick=port 1, mouse=port2) - Unriagh II (german PD adventure) has drivers for ST mouse+joystick (stick=port 1, mouse=port 2) - little Calculator (AMC-Verlag, PD) uses ST-mouse only (port 2) - big UPN calculator (PD) uses ST mouse, TB, Touch tab. and joystick; (there are different COM files, rename the one you wish to use to *.EXE; all drivers use port 1 - if I remember correctly) - Operation Blood (ANG/Mirage) press mouse fire or Select to start in ST mouse mode (port 2) - Operation Blood 2 / Special Forces press mouse fire or Select to start (ANG/Mirage) in ST mouse mode - Sprint XL (ABBUC Jahresgabe 1992) uses an ST mouse in port 2 - M.O.S. (ABBUC magazine) uses an ST mouse in port 2 - Diamond GOS (Reeve software) all three versions support an ST mouse in port 2 - S.A.M. (Power per Post) german GUI, supports an ST mouse in port 2 - G.O.E. (TCS) supports an ST mouse in port 1 - BOSS-X (MS-Software, Mirko Sobe) supports ST-Mouse in Port 2 RE: Missile Command, Andreas writes: there are many different versions available... I know the old Atari 800 cart version, which works correct with Joystick and Trakball, but not at all with a mouse. The newer XL version works with Mouse, trackball and Joystick, also the newest (built-in) XEGS version of MC. But, there is also a tape version (and maybe a disk version) of MC available. I am not sure if this tape version behaves like the old 800 version or like the newer XL and XE/XEGS versions... And about mice, Andreas adds: Maybe you did not know, there is a little difference between Trackball and ST-mouse. Although MC works with both input devices does not mean, they are the same. they are not !! Connect the TB to an ST computer and you see: it does not work at all !! You have to do a small conversion to convert the TB to an ST mouse. (Plans are avaiable from ABBUC, Germany). There's also the supposedly unfinished mouse-only game Pad. Then read this thread thoroughly. If you come across a busmouse you have half won. All you need to convert the mouse to the right belief is cutting the 9-pin minidin and soldering the Canon 9-pin connector (d-sub9) according to the pinouts mentioned in the above thread. BTW: I wouldn't have cut the minidin had the opposite sex connector been available here which it isn't. And I also have about a dozen spare busmice because I had no other choice but buy them as a lot on eBay. I tried hard to find KE-soft's creations but found only the archive of their newer stuff. Does anyone know where to download them? And if you want to take the modern approach buy yourself the USB Cart and rip the mouse off your PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbs Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 https://www.instructables.com/id/Atari-8-Bit-Optical-Mouse/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) Hello gregory The Rat isn't really a mouse. It really works like a joystick. Greetings Mathy Sorry, that is wrong. I owned the "super" Rat, which is a real mouse and works just like an ST or Amiga mouse, the only difference between it and the original Rat mouse (1 button like original Mac mouse) is a second button that never gets used (on the 8-bit), because in reality the "Super" Rat is an after-market mouse made for ST/Amiga computers that came bundled with Accu-draw high-res art program and a simple desktop called RAOS. I used it with my ST as well for many years, and it works fine with BOSS, Diamond, SAM etc. too. I have a friend with an ST that asked if I had an extra ST mouse because his stopped working and I sent him my "Super" Rat about 5 years ago, which he uses on the ST to this day! It was made by Zobian Controls, and the rumor is that the original RAT never even actually shipped, and people where ripped off. When I ordered the "Super" RAT, after about 3 months I sent a trace from the post office to see if it was lost in the mail or what, and a week later it arrived. So how do I know the original RAT was also a real mouse? By deduction Watson, as there was no option in the software to choose the RAT or SuperRAT, you just plugged it in and the mouse worked, so if the original was really a joystick, it would have had to choose it or the SuperRat to get them to work with the programs properly. Edited June 7, 2019 by Gunstar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) Sorry, that is wrong ... Well, if we're correcting incorrect posts from 12 years ago, here's a doozy: Is there a ball underneath? If so, it's basically like the Atari 2600 trak-ball that has only 8 directions of movement. That's completely wrong, at least as-stated. The "Atari 2600 trak-ball" is the CX-22 and/or CX-80. It is correct that, BITD, they had to operate only in joystick mode when connected to a 2600 and thus emulate a standard 8-direction digital stick. However, if connected to an A8 and set to Trak-Ball mode, MISSILE COMMAND and Synapse's SLIME! both accept proportional directional/speed movement, just like an arcade Trak-Ball. In addition, there are a couple of ports of the 5200 version of Centipede, complete with real Trak-Ball control, to the A8 machines. Even better, over the last 3 - 4 years, there have been a whole slew of Trak-Ball re-writes to the classics: MISSILE COMMAND, CENTIPEDE, MILLIPEDE, REACTOR, COLONY 7 and more have been converted for the 2600. Al will even make you a cart if you want a physical release. There's been a similar re-write for 7800 CENTIPEDE too. Edited June 7, 2019 by DrVenkman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) YIKES! Sorry, I always forget to look at dates on these threads...I keep telling myself, and other like you that comment when I do, that I will start looking, but I always forget... I've got the Atari track-ball, and all those games...didn't comment on it because I didn't read it. Once the RAT error caught my eye I was off on a mission to correct and take pictures of old ads out of my old magazines... Edited June 8, 2019 by Gunstar 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 YIKES! Sorry, I always forget to look at dates on these threads...I keep telling myself, and other like you that comment when I do, that I will start looking, but I always forget... I've got the Atari track-ball, and all those games...didn't comment on it because I didn't read it. Once the RAT error caught my eye I was off on a mission to correct and take pictures of old ads out of my old magazines... Is the RAOS related to the ROULS?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 If someone wants a good mouse on their 8-Bit, I would recommend going with one of the PS/2 solutions already in existence. Optical PS/2 mice are readily available as NOS, and are far superior to anything made BITD, such as the ST mouse. Don't need more then 400 DPI. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Hello guys Somebody made optical upgrades for the ST-Mice that are a drop-in replacement for the original mouse PCB. Found it. Sincerely Mathy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just for completeness: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Hello guys Somebody made optical upgrades for the ST-Mice that are a drop-in replacement for the original mouse PCB. Found it. Sincerely Mathy Very nice Now all that's needed is to make the switches have a lighter touch. Just for completeness: I haven't loaded that game up in quite a while, and haven't tried playing it on my 1088XEL or XLD with the built-in PS/2 mouse support. I'll have to give that a whirl . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarixle Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I once owned a Rat-like mouse, advertised for the C64 - it was likely the same product as the Rat itself, as it just emulated Joystick-controls. So it kinda worked on the Atari. When I tried to use it, I thought, that there had to be "speed" register, but it wasn't, which made this all pretty useless. The Atari-ST-Mouse itself sends raw movement-signals to the Atari, so it has to "emulate" the ST-Mouse-Controller (which is built into the ST). Simple mouse-drivers read the data a 1000 times a second, so it wont run in VBI (I guess, other drivers do a better job), but for that it's pretty real-time and 50fps/60fps capable. My BOSS-X-GUI can make use of the ST-mouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Quite partial to this at the moment: I also use some 'Logic 3' and 'Tecnomouse' mice (the former switchable between Amiga/ST) from the early 90s and find them perfectly usable and vastly superior to the original mice supplied with both machines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Hello guys Re: ST Mouse driver for the Atari 8 bit that doesn't take up too many cycles. Check out what John Maris came up with years ago. You might need SuperUnArc to unarc it. You'll find it when you scroll up after downloading John's files. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 See the discussions buried in the GUI thread. I started with the Maris driver and then improved it with the help of the community. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) Is the RAOS related to the ROULS? Rat-Acuated-Operating-System. And as a desktop, if it's possible, it both sucked and blew at the same time! It was made up of keyboard graphics for the windows and standard Atari text, and did as much as DOS 2.5, I don't recall now, but it probably required Atari DOS too, so it just turned menu selection into point-and-click. Some subroutines came with the RAT too, to make your own programs "Rat compatible" (which was just mouse compatible in general, you could have just bought the software and used an original ST or ST after market mouse). The graphics mode 8 Accu-draw program was decent though. As soon as Diamond GOS came out I was using the "RAT" mouse with it, the mouse itself, at least the "SupeRat" was actually pretty decent, but it was just an after market mouse itself Zobian started selling instead of the original Rat mouse pictured for whatever reason. With rumors of the original never shipping it could have been some issue with manufacturing or something, so they just start throwing in mice made for the ST/Amiga and called it the "SuperRat" because of an extra button that was never even used in any of their software, or any other software for the mouse on the 8-bit that I know of. If there are any original Rat mice out there, they are probably worth a bit due to extreme rarity (like prototype shown in ads?), but the "SuperRat" I had is just a C128/Amiga style mouse, it looks just like them anyway. I've long since lost the software for it though, but none of it's of any use today with better mouse programs and drivers/subroutines out there except maybe for Accu-draw, I'm not sure of any mouse-compatible high-res programs other than it. If I knew back then that ST/Amiga mice were compatible with the 8-bit (as long as there was software taking advantage) I never would have bought it and would have gotten an ST mouse. But I do have to say the mouse was better quality than the STM1 mouse, I only gave it away in favor of an ST mouse because the wedge-style matched the wedge Style of my XE (and now XL after a XL brown & cream style repaint) Edited June 8, 2019 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 If someone wants a good mouse on their 8-Bit, I would recommend going with one of the PS/2 solutions already in existence. Optical PS/2 mice are readily available as NOS, and are far superior to anything made BITD, such as the ST mouse. Don't need more then 400 DPI. This one is rather close to the XL color. Would be perfect if the chord and wheel were brown! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) Quite partial to this at the moment: Trackball.jpg I also use some 'Logic 3' and 'Tecnomouse' mice (the former switchable between Amiga/ST) from the early 90s and find them perfectly usable and vastly superior to the original mice supplied with both machines. I actually am beginning to prefer using my Atari track-ball or my Atari touch-tablet with the programs that you can choose them or a mouse, and of course the legacy art programs all support either tablet, track-ball or both. But I still need all three depending on what programs I'm using, including using the track-ball in joystick mode for some art and other menu based programs that support point-and-click via joystick. Is your GOS going to support Atari track-balls and touch-tablets? Not that it would stop me from using it otherwise, I still have my ST mouse that I will upgrade to laser. I already swapped the left/right button switches as the left finally wore out after 30 years, so I can use a new board with new switches anyway... Edited June 9, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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